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Class Update Preview: Elementalist


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#26 Kazara

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 09:31 AM

Update

 

So Helium and myself got into the debate on the Elementalist job, in particular the new additions of the resist debuffs. From what I understand, it was to add more utility to the class outside of damage. My main concern was that the sound of the name,"elementalist" doesn't really give a vibe of being a defensive, buffing class. If it was a buffing class we should of named it like Aura Master or Buff Bot 2000 (A JOKE A JOKE!). So my main point I wanted to make was that if it did do a debuff of resists and only single target, then lets make it instant cast with damage as well.

 

I think the instant cast would help out in situations like PvP or fast movement PvE. What I also suggested was that while it should be instant cast with a decently long cooldown, it should be castable on other targets within the spell's debuff duration so if you need to cast on a second target, it should be available.

 

I think that idea got a spark of interest from Helium. We'll see how it goes.

Fast movement in pve...do any game need fast movement in pve as caster?LOL I don't know any xD

Change it to " Target's Resistance to X become 0% for 30 seconds" and please, change skill colours of that debuffs -.-"""""""""""

 

Anyway, if u plan to change 3 classes every 2 months (and ofc fix all the bugs) , this will take years...

 

P.S: When u will do something for mall BALANCE??


Edited by Kazara, 12 November 2014 - 09:33 AM.

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#27 Alteris

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 09:54 AM

Fast movement in pve...do any game need fast movement in pve as caster?LOL I don't know any xD

Change it to " Target's Resistance to X become 0% for 30 seconds" and please, 

Well the plan is the target resistance to X become X for 30 seconds is pretty much what's its going at.

 

change skill colours of that debuffs -.-"""""""""""

Yup! That's been done and will go in 173.

 

Anyway, if u plan to change 3 classes every 2 months (and ofc fix all the bugs) , this will take years...

Class balance is a very tough part of the game. There is never a time when the game is fully "balanced'. Even games with multi-million dollar companies such as Blizzard, SquareEnix, Riot will teak their games to get as close to balance as possible. It's even harder in the MMO genre as new items, levels, encounters will always change how everything is balanced. Class balance will always be something we will be working on.

 

P.S: When u will do something for mall BALANCE??

We are coming up with some neat ways to find ways to make the game more enjoyable without malls. This of course will take some time because of how dependant this game has gotten with it's current system.

 


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#28 Kazara

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 09:58 AM

Ok ty for answers ^^

Edited by Kazara, 12 November 2014 - 09:59 AM.

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#29 explicid17

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 10:51 AM

 should be instant cast with a decently long cooldown, it should be castable on other targets

yes long cooldown, but if you're going to make it instant cast and multi target, then lower the amount of resistance i think -20% is a fair amount. They would stun, debuff and attack, so no need for -50% that is way too OP

 

max the debuff skills at 5 points or merge it back to 1 skill, elem won't have enough points for all these new skills

 

also elementalist will only be known for debuffing. I think they should have a spamable skill for each element like Shaman_Fire_Ball.gif Fire Ball and Templar_Elec_Bolt.gif Elec Bolt

 

 

and did you ask Helium to make Holy Bliss a party buff?


Edited by explicid17, 12 November 2014 - 11:08 AM.

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#30 Apollonia93

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 11:32 AM

I don't think its possible to get all resists at 80%+ for example wrecked ball II gets you to 80% fire resist,water and light. the 85 NM jewels and armor get you to about 50% electric and curse and you can up to 80% with enchants. But that leaves wind at 30% resist. So basically an elementlist would find a person's weakness and exploit it.

well thats not ENTIRELY accurate.

for example my 69 commie is running 110% resist to all

My druid is running 80% cap stack on all but wind/curse ~60%, until i swap to necklace and cap stack that as well.

My prot is running 80% cap stack all but wind and curse, caps easily with necklace as well.

You forgot that any toon running high int is running over 50% base resist.

85 set gives cap stacked elec.

 

Now take for example the new enchants and new armor in the game.

Ball scad1 gives you cap elec/wind/curse

Resonatings instead of hearts gives you absurd water resist

Regals instead of event scc gives you fire resist.

boom cap all but light. which is currently a useless resist because there is 1 avenger in the game?


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#31 Sandyman

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 11:37 AM

well let me give you my thoughts: (even if nobody asked xD)

 

regarding Elementalist or Xeona in general the main Problem is that they lag 

 

the abilities to fight back at short Range Battle the only exception you could call is the Druid if he goes Inferno 

 

The Old Devs even went so far to make the Skills dysfunctional on close Range (Caster)

 

Spoiler

 

 

what you see here is my Paint Art and some sort of nature Enemy Build: Both Races can suppress each other.

 

The Xeona can cancel out the natural gifts from the Kruxena Race but have to suffer on the Short Range Battle for that.

 

I don`t involve Weps,Arnaments , PB or other Class/Race Aspects into it...or this goes on and on

 

My Point is that the Xeona Race is not very good balanced and not only VS Kruxena.

 

They lack a better Inferno Build or they don`t even have 1 short Range Expert^^

 

No a Pet or Traps with 3 Sec Duration can`t compensate that.

 

Ofc. you could always say its the Work of the remaining other Races/ Classes to fill that Gap.

 

But Rangers and Elementalists are underpowered and Avengers got nerfd like sh.t

 

So 1 OP Class like the Druid is no Fix for that.

 

Giving them more movement ability won`t change much stunned or hushed..

 

If you improve Ranger on Short Range Battle its semi ok

 

But otherwise the Elementalist need to fill that Gab into my Eyes.


Edited by Sandyman, 12 November 2014 - 11:40 AM.

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#32 Sandyman

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 11:47 AM

Traps that don`t dissolve was such a Help  ...

:puppyeye:


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#33 Apollonia93

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 12:01 PM

Traps that don`t dissolve was such a Help  ...

:puppyeye:

haha and traps that actually blow up on time helped too

but at this point where nearly everyone has capped light resist at high lvls, there is really not much traps can do. only way to get decent trap dmg is use 72 set which has wind resist hence crap. with 89/85 set getting even 2k on cap is hard. granted traps cant be hushed, but with 6 sec CD on guided and 10? on bomb (sorry havent touched my venger in long time) just cant do enough dmg trap wise. what vengers need is 

1) spammable trap that does decent dmg, say guided with 2 sec cd and ability to have 4-5 up at the same time.

2) detonate on command function - sometimes you dont want it to blow up with just 1 person over it, you want it to wait for more to be on it.

3) more bombs - nuclear bomb/radiation bomb that does dot, a slowing bomb, a debuffing bomb. they are bomb specialists they should act like it.

 

ANYWAYS off topic this was regarding elems.

well did you know the lvl 80 elem skill removes hush but cant be used during hush? kinda silly right? should be castable in hush.


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#34 Sandyman

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 12:18 PM

ya the Element can cancel SR debuff 

 

they really don`t like each other 

 

many Skill from em are related to each other

 

If you see em fight lets say 10 Battle Rounds?

 

who wins?


Edited by Sandyman, 12 November 2014 - 12:23 PM.

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#35 explicid17

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 12:45 PM

or example my 69 commie is running 110% resist to all

My druid is running 80% cap stack on all but wind/curse ~60%, until i swap to necklace and cap stack that as well.

My prot is running 80% cap stack all but wind and curse, caps easily with necklace as well.

well not everyone spends thousands of dollars on this game buddy, and you cant have 80% everything without using crappy TB weapons, that nobody uses in Union / FoC lv 90

 

 

They need to improve the damage on the melee druid inferno skills and I would think Avenger should be more focused short range, not Ranger, but some melee skills in 1st job Hunter class would help i guess.


Edited by explicid17, 12 November 2014 - 12:51 PM.

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#36 Apollonia93

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 01:01 PM

well not everyone spends thousands of dollars on this game buddy, and you cant have 80% everything without using crappy TB weapons, that nobody uses in Union / FoC lv 90

 

scad 2 ball + 85 set = 4 resists capped. get a tb necklace like everyone else uses and there all resists capped. seriously dude cmon

 

also thousands? with 70% forge free +30 items.

with 64% forge 1 +30 item is 2.5k mall, 5 items for 12k mall = 100 dollars.

6 armor parts, ball, 1tb necklace 7 items 200 dollars. or free if you have a ton of foc points.


Edited by Apollonia93, 12 November 2014 - 01:04 PM.

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#37 explicid17

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 01:25 PM

anyway, if elem casted -50% on 8 targets mystics and tempest would easily slaughter everyone and push everyone into the spawn


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#38 Sandyman

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 03:32 PM

some might say:hey... Xenoa are supposed to be bad at Close Range / Muscle Fights...

 

but what is left from the Old Concepts?

 

does we ever see a real Front Line?

 

I see Healers fighting Juggy solo easy and Tanks Healing at Raids thats some twisted Reality here.

 

 

In the past we had some clear Rules...AoE or Solo DPS Class.

 

PvE Strong or PvP Weak

 

now its all mix-ed up.

 

I´m just saying go all the Way and not half backed like its now.

 


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#39 sleepyTown

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 03:35 PM

why not check out the game alteris and find out how hackers ruining this game. they dont care anymore if they are too obvious because devs dont care about it. No matter how you try to balance the game or fix each every class skill, hacks still win....idont know how a sin can kill a caster with 2.5k def and more than 20k HP in just 2 secs..once scud hit you in 1st sec you got half HP, the other sec your dead..defiler instant trap and could hit you with pewpew several times in single animation, instant sleep....omg


Edited by sleepyTown, 12 November 2014 - 03:46 PM.

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#40 Viole

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 06:42 PM

Thousands to cap resist?

That's a pretty funny assumption. All it takes is a trinity weapon, a scad ball and a tb neck or belt. Those are pretty easy to make with forge, and in fact just having them makes you a lot better than most characters your armor and jewels can be a bit lacking.

This is of course with old setups. I'm speaking 75 set coupled with scad I and a TB belt. If you really wanted to spend now the stats you could get are absurd for certain classes~
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#41 explicid17

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 07:47 PM

Rupees*


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#42 NemesisSlayer

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 02:31 PM

I have been thinking that the resist down for elementalists should be a single skill(instant cast or passive) that reduces the target's MAX RESISTANCE by a value like -30%.  This will mean that no matter how much resist they have, it still has an effect that isn't too overpowering.  Right now, if the target has say... 150% to all resistances(capped at 80%), a -50% will do nothing to them.  If it reduces the target's max resistance, it will set the target to 50%.  If the target already had less than 50%, it will simply do nothing to them.  


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#43 BumblefootV7

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 01:46 AM

Looks like Helium is releasing more bugs. I'd guess by the 4th class to get changes this game will be so broken it close. So many months of forum topics and he used his own idiotic ideas instead. Wouldn't be so bad if he had a clue how we build our characters . Geting Helium and Alteris to make changes is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. Pls del all changes a revert game bk to the last day Korea had control. All uve achieved with your idiotic changes is less players in game. You both have no clue. Your both in a job you don't deserve. Can only assume you bs your managers
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#44 BumblefootV7

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 02:03 AM

Helium and Alteris are about as useful as a one legged cat trying to bury a turd on a frozen lake
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#45 XRosebloodX

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 11:21 PM

Buff Bot. Lol. Oh, I feel depressed now. But thank you for the feedback! Very much appreciated to know what's being discussed!

 

 

For pure PvE, that's pretty much what that class is right now. Guildy makes fun saying now I will have Rage of Bugs, and I'll be able to do damage. That, mind buff, hp buff for others, and fire res down is how he sees the use of my char. So, usually end up playing Buff Bot and using another toon for damage.You summed it up quite well.

Anyway, sounds much better! Hope Helium's spark grows!

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Really long post because Alteris likes to see why/logical reasoning, which is understandable. But for others, just read the summary. Will probably suffice. 

Summary :

  • HP changed to Party Buff (HINT HINT, POKE, NUDGE, SHOVE!)
  • Combine the four debuffs into two debuffs if you refuse to just make it into one. 
  • Add 10 more skill points if you're going to be adding skills or making people go through more filler skills to get to nicer skills in every class.
  • Why is the Elementalist visualized as a single target class?
  • Strengthen Mysterious Storm
  • Change lvl 80 mind buff to useable during hush

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Now if you could put 2 element debuffs on one skill, I think that would work better. Mainly I say this for skill points if instant cast (not caused by DNA! The visual effects make it slow!).

 

Just look at skill trees. It is unreasonable to add 7 new skills that are supposed to balance a class without adding more base skill points or something. Even if you just use 3-4 of them, they all need maxed. It is defeating the purpose by using the same system and required amount, but then adding more variety to strengthen it. It's like, "Here's more stuff to play with to make the game better! Oh, you, you actually wanted to use them and make the character your own? Silly Temperion." Because look, let me even be conservative about it and just put pure necessities for PvE and PvP.

 

 

First Tree    Total:  40           Second Tree Total:  49

LCS -1 (filler)                                                 res debuff -10 
FCS – 5                                                         Invisible Arrow – 5

LCT  -1                                                          Snow Burst – 10
Natural healing -1                                          Fairy’s Judge – 10

Instant healing – 1                                         HP  Buff – 10 

Wave of healing 1                                          Mind Buff - 4                                      

Absorbing energy - 10
Armor Mastery - 10
Dash - 10

 

 

109 total pts @ lvl 90  –  89  =  20 pts left over.

 

 

OH, minus 10 because I was told to max Rage of Bugs so I can do more damage while buffing and debuffing. And it’d either be another res, RoB, or clairvoyance. So even using just one debuff, I have only 10 points to actually play with.

 

 

Well we want a little multi-target damage because it takes forever to kill a group of mobs. This might take 5 seconds off, but it's worth it. So HCl Throw and Mysterious Storm 5 each. Or if you make mysterious storm worth it, all 10 points in it.Oops! Out of points. Crap, won't be able to see sins now or have a single point in a spam skill when mobs/characters are too close.

 

 

You have MAX! 20 pts to spend outside of absolute necessities. There’s hardly any flexibility to make this class your own. Do druids have it even worse with how many skills you have to use just to get to the one you want? Not sure.

 

 

See what I’m saying? There’s not enough points for what you’re adding and what you’re wanting to do for the classes. The design is defeating itself before it is even implemented. Yes! The dash and armor mastery make it better. The class is squishy and can’t escape hush death, perma stun, etc or even keep up with others while traveling on rex with the others on foot. The instant cast and damage for res buffs would definitely make it better. You mentioned single target. Why not just make the res debuff like a splash effect multiple target? That's been mentioned somewhere. Not sure on its practicality. But if you keep adding skills to people's trees. I think 10 more points should be built in and/or earned (not mall). And with or without that, I think to balance this out, you need merge the stuff into two debuffs.One Fire/Elec, the other Water/Wind. Two debuffs for at least one item on another scad ball. Also, most of the useful BM/ele dmg dealers lie in Fire/Ele damage it seems now. Even with my conservative starter build, that still leaves me with only 10 pts to play with, but at least it's a more useful 10 points I spent in a debuff/possible instant damage dealer.

 

 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Additionally! Question! Why is the Elementalist visualized as a single target class? I mean, it doesn't significantly hit harder than the multi-mob classes. Others can hit about the same if not the same or more and also lay down AoE's on top of that, which does damage much more quickly to many more morebs/opponents. So I don't really see much of an advantage except for slight variety and not causing others to lag. Perhaps if the few multiple target skills available actually did damage like an echo of total AoE damage? specifically, I mean instant damage to a large group of mobs/players.

 

Example:
30 Mystics even on full +30/res cap seem to hit about 3k per tick on AoE.

Mystic AoE Duration without DNA: 16 seconds, ticking every 2 seconds

So 8 ticks * 3k = 24k. 
 

Well, +30 elementalist should have Mysterious Storm cause 5-7k dmg, Haven't decided. Even at 7k,not quite 1/3 of total damage what a good AoE causes. You easily get that much damage from just running out of an AoE.
 

 

Mysterious Storm, I think that would be a good one to do that to. Makes the ele a little more special for both solo pve, TD, and PvP. I don't see how a puff of air visual effectis that mysterious or very storm like. Max I ever hit on that at end game with great gear and pd Alban II mobs is a 3k or maybe a little over. Usually hits around 2k on those in SvS though I think. 

 

 

 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
The mind buff, it really is stupid you can't use it during hush. Hush happens by multiple target. Well, you're usually alone or in a group, so, not sure how you're not supposed to be hushed yourself unless you just ran into a group of hushed players.

Edited by XRosebloodX, 15 November 2014 - 09:04 PM.

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#46 sonemere

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 02:03 AM

make it 2 debuff if u refuse to make 1 buff... YES

make it instcast

make hp buff pty buff

 

make the -res debuf reset players max resistance to the resistance cap if they are over it and then apply the debuf.


Edited by sonemere, 15 November 2014 - 02:04 AM.

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#47 pepsta

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 04:37 PM

Long time player here for Ele...

 

Cannot believe what has happened to this class....

 

Just FYI, not sure about how long most ppl here have been playing but when they originally introduced the Reduce Res, it was 1x skill to reduce ALL res and was instant cast will a long cool down - problem with it was that with max skill + max DNA the most it reduce was approx 15% - to which at lvl cap + gear barely gave an additional 150 - 300 additional dmg........ hence why almost every Ele build avoided this skill all together and focused more so on the dmg side..

 

i just had a quick play now - wanting to come back to play it, but found more broken skills and duplicates of DNA - which looks like this class has been completely stuffed up......

 

Fix the skills and fix the DNA - then worry about which skills to buff / nerf - but if i were you guys i would be looking at our buffs, currently all 3x magic dmg buffs are useless... i still remember when they nerfed Raging strike - it was our last decent dmg buff - its also when i started to play a different class all together....

 

Please fix this class, happy to give more suggestions....


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