67 replies to this topic

[Greven79]

I have only experienced Dark Soul and their attempt to add PvP to farming zones... and it ended up as a nightmare with lots of cheating players, etc. But still, stating that it was fun in a certain game, isn''t such a good statement, because usually all the environment is different as well (see Dark Souls f.e.). So it still stands:

 

I hereby invite anyone of the players who have replied on this thread (and of course anyone else) to simply answer the question I have stated in my last reply: How would this suggestion improve PvP fights.

[5318130516144610857]

That's a bit of a rhetorical question, isn't it ? It's like asking how Twitter improves communication when there is Facebook, Skype, Messenger, IRC, ICQ, forums, etc. It simply doesn't, the communication between people remains the same, it's only another way of doing it. 

 

What I think you want to ask is, what this pk-channel offers of different that will make players go there and have pvp instead of using the already existing methods/ways ingame of doing it and whereas if it didn't exist, those players wouldn't pvp ? It's not easy to answer that question, I think it all comes down to the utility each one gives to this hypothetical channel. If you read my previous replies I kinda already answered it, but that's only my opinion.

 

I want to point out that Gravity/WP wants RO2 to be a collaborative, friendly and laid-back fun environment, or at least that's how I perceive the game and from how it is being managed, specially during leveling. If you party with others you get more exp, look at the events they promote, they even put a useless option of a player becoming a helper in parties.

Edited by 5318130516144610857, 22 December 2014 - 07:14 PM.

[MingMei]

@greven 

-pets(gmines allow this but doesnt allow everyone in)

-Raid of different guilds vs a raid of different guilds <-- such fun 

[5318130516144610857]

Implementing a player killing channel has a risk of becoming abandoned over time if there is no incentive to go there. Some have suggested the most obvious ideas to prevent it from happing: increase exp and droprate. What can be farmed in open field that makes players risk their life to go there ?  Mermaid DNA? RSX or Garbong DNA ? I don't see many more options than farming DNA, so very few players would go there because of increased droprate. Then two things might happen: they either give up and the map is deserted, or after some fights/alliances there is a balanced-status reached and no one attacks the other first by rule of an implied law, and the pk-channel would become like another pve channel except with all those extras. That means pk-channel failed its objective.

 

If it's to level up, I believe Gravity/WP is most likely to think "hey, we've done so many exp boost events over these past few months and give you free scrolls of all sorts through different ways, if you want to levelup just use those things no need of an extra special channel for it" and won't even bother to consider that option. Besides the two same scenarios can happen and lead to the failure of its original intention.

 

Some others have then suggested of a totally different mode of the game with bounty hunting and all sorts of restrictions/incentives to pvp, inspired by other games. I think Grav/WP would only reply "then go play those games instead of RO2".

 

Anyway, I'm repeating myself. I'm in favour of having a pk-channel, but yeah... I don't believe in Santa Claus either.

[donthackme2]

I have only experienced Dark Soul and their attempt to add PvP to farming zones... and it ended up as a nightmare with lots of cheating players, etc. But still, stating that it was fun in a certain game, isn''t such a good statement, because usually all the environment is different as well (see Dark Souls f.e.). So it still stands:

 

I hereby invite anyone of the players who have replied on this thread (and of course anyone else) to simply answer the question I have stated in my last reply: How would this suggestion improve PvP fights.

 

How?!?! I think by doing this, you will be able to study how your character will go against different classes. You can make different strategies etc. This can also be a means to gather information on Class Imbalance etc., and hopefully be solved accordingly.

[TontonAlarcon]

usual scenarios on PK channel is that people tend to go grinding on it. true. people agree to not attack while grinding but there's nothing stopping you from attacking them, really. this is the most common scenario on PK channels. while grinding, an akatsuki like group of strong players wreak havoc and players fight together to stop them. we had lots of scenarios like these in flyff where we were leveling and then group of killers comes along and disrupt our grinding. it's like a mini war with the player killers.

[Greven79]

How?!?! I think by doing this, you will be able to study how your character will go against different classes. You can make different strategies etc. This can also be a means to gather information on Class Imbalance etc., and hopefully be solved accordingly.

 

I haven't asked for a general explanation what might be the benefits of PvP, I asked how introducing an area or channel that contains mob farming spots would improve the PvP experience. Because I don't see an improvement over the normal WoE encounters here.

 

IMO, adding mob-farming rather than grass-gathering spots would be a VERY risky decision. Players usually do this for a much longer period, which makes them much more vulnerable for interruptions. It requires usually much more concentration/teamplay, which also creates an inherent flaw for PvP situations. And of course, mobs can harm & kill you, so players might start with less HPs.

 

All in all, this creates a very favorable situation for any attacker. Guessing the possible outcome of adding such a PK channel isn't that hard... players are convenient. That's why it doesn't seem to be favorable at all to me. I've seen quite a lot of players camping the WoE entrances or hiding near the grass spots. Some even attack other players that have a lower level then their own (knowing that they can't compete in regard of gears & stuff). And I've also seen quite a few 'masses-wins' occations, where a larger group had no problem attacking a much smaller one. So much about 'fair fights' and 'competitveness'.

 

PK channels or areas might work in other games, where fights take much longer, personal reaction determines the outcome by most parts and/or class/gear inbalances aren't that severe But I honestly doubt that adding these things in RO2 would be anything but a complete disaster.

 

Edit:

As I've said: I would have no problem with introducing other PvP modes. I enjoyed the stealth PvP in Splinter Cell, Alien vs. Predator, Far Cry (maybe even Team Fortress). But there has to be a certain kind of challenge there. And a RO2 version just brings the Grimtooth out-of-hide mass kills into my mind.
 

Edited by Greven79, 23 December 2014 - 04:51 AM.

[TontonAlarcon]

difference is that there are no repercussions when killing other players in WoE map. attacking on a PK channel will flag your character with killer status, preventing you from using some functions of the game for a certain period of time. yes you can kill anyone playing in that channel but know that if you do, you will be marked as a wanted/killer or some similar status. also, you risk of losing something of value when you get PKd while being a killer.

[Greven79]

So for you, it would be ok, if an Assassin would wait for the mobs to attack, use his Grimtooth to take out the whole grinding party easily and then goes AFK on a safe spot - preferably his 'bravery' still being highlighted - waiting until he gets rid of the killer status? Wow!

Edited by Greven79, 23 December 2014 - 05:57 AM.

[donthackme2]

It is an OPTION in the first place..no one is forcing anyone to go there.

You were not able to experience it like we did. Why do you have so many doubts when you have not encountered it yet. Those are merely assumptions and are inconclusive until the proposal is implemented.

Edited by donthackme2, 23 December 2014 - 08:14 AM.

[Greven79]

The fact that it's 'optional' isn't even a discussable matter in my opinion. Just because something isn't mandatory, doesn't make it a good or balanced.

 

Whenever I have experienced PvP in other games - especially those who weren't designed around it, players started to exploit it and it didn't ended up well (just see Dark Souls, but also Diablo 2, etc.). So if you have experienced a good & functional example - and I can't argue about that - you might still keep in mind that this system isn't transferrable to Ragnarok. And no working mechanics that I could probably agree on was presented here yet.

 

And btw: You still haven't answered my question: Why do you need oher players farming mobs to consider it a 'better' PvP experience?

Edited by Greven79, 23 December 2014 - 10:39 AM.

[donthackme2]

I think I already answered your question.

Please refer back to your original question and not do a rebuttal with another question. If you are not satisfied with my answer,then I can't do anything about it.

[Greven79]

I can only remember that one:

 

How?!?! I think by doing this, you will be able to study how your character will go against different classes. You can make different strategies etc. This can also be a means to gather information on Class Imbalance etc., and hopefully be solved accordingly.

 

But that's only a general statement, not an answer to my question. So yes, this keeps me unsatisfied.

[TontonAlarcon]

So for you, it would be ok, if an Assassin would wait for the mobs to attack, use his Grimtooth to take out the whole grinding party easily and then goes AFK on a safe spot - preferably his 'bravery' still being highlighted - waiting until he gets rid of the killer status? Wow!

 

yes. that's a part of playing on a PK channel. there's always a chance of getting killed and lose EXP. it adds thrill to the game. although there will certainly be no "bravery" in being a killer. your name will be in red and will make players attack you on sight (or maybe they run away). it may get annoying but that's the beauty of it. if you can't handle the pressure of getting killed by other players on PK channel, then go to a PvE one. there's no harm in that. you're speaking as if the scenario you described is not happening to WoE map.

 

why is this system not transferable to RO2? well, maybe item dropping is not possible but zeny loss is. i think what needs to be added is honor system (for killer/hero status) and maybe the bounty boards. also, when killer dies, he will also be warped to a prison area to atone for his transgressions and will need to complete a series of quest to get out. 

 

going with RO2 history, we only have a slim-to-none chance of getting any suggestions implemented in the game. i don't know why grinch here keeps on bashing the idea. open PK is a good thing. not everyone can join a guild worthy of competing in WoE. having a PK channel makes PK available for everyone, even at early levels. not just for players who have max gears and in good guilds.

[Greven79]

Ok, let me rephrase it:

 

The original idea can be separated into two sub-ideas:

1. PvP channel/area with farming spots
2. reputation system

Point 1 - farming spots:

I already pointed out that I don't see how this would improve PvP fights by any mean. Won't repeat this all over again, but I still haven't got an answer.

 

Point 2 - reputation system:

I'm not against this idea. I wish we would have such a system on guild scale. If guild members are camping the entrances right before WoE, the guild reputation should go down and as a ultimate result, this guild wouldn't be able to use certain skills, etc.for a while

 

How to implement such a system: Whenever a player attacks another one with a higher reputation and sheathed weapon, his reputation goes down (or the whole guild reputation).

 

The idea of restricting the player for some time, isn't even a penality. It's a free promotion. He already 'completed' his task and might have used butterfly wings, the escape option or might have logged out. Thereafter, all it takes is to wait until the reputation is resetted. And since players usually do PvP if they've maxed their character already and might even have multiple characters, it's hard to find some meaningful restraints. To sum it up, nothing would be improved.... players would still have no second thoughts killing other characters. Only a special ranking is introduced used for more bragging.

 

That's exactly my point: If you introduce a reputation system, it should have a meaning. It shouldn't be just another ranking. The ideas given so far simply don't suffice. If you've played the game for a while, you already know the names of those players who attack randomly and if you can, just attack them on every occation, don't party with them or avoid them otherwise. And if you switch from guild to knightage titles, you can aslo guess how many blood points a certain player has earned already, so I don't see a benefit in highlighting names.

 

Let's twist it. Let's say, a player keeps his ill-reputation indefinitely and the only way to get rid of it would be to slowly walk across the whole WoE map, talking to several persons without being able to use gear, skills or pots. A global note would also show that this player is on his 'road of repentance'. If that player gets killed on his way, he has to start all over again and the attackers will lose only half as much (or less) reputation. In that way, other players would get their chance for a revenge.

 

THAT would be a penality.

 

But would players like it? - Probably not, because the wish for PK is all to often just a wish for more prominence for killing other characters (even with certain restraints), not really about suffering for it.

Edited by Greven79, 29 December 2014 - 09:51 AM.

[crafter4epics]

Why this will most likely be rejected or last queued is for a reason of the game's CLASS BALANCE. This ain't also a solution of finding bugs for class balancing. We have the VCR's to compile them w/ the help of players' discovery &/or feedback. Balancing is more of a priority prior to this one. In my opinion(based on patches since AOV last year), devs are rushing content to ML50 then balance the classes afterwards. From their point of view, it's much easier for a balance at ML50 than to balance every class this ML35 then rebalance again at ML40 & so on. And also considers PVP & PVE of class balancing. We got WOE though you usually see guild clashes if PVP.

 

A new item exchange for Guild Tokens could also make WOE more populated w/ casual players farming when large guilds sleep. Though this would make another instance of guild camping at gates. If that's what the PK channel is about - more people at a PVP map; And w/out red maps of enemy players; W/ more exp and drop rate; And w/ reputation(killer getting killed drops items). Most likely, a rebuild PK channel at WOE. Dunno if the devs find this easier to apply.

 

OFF-TOPIC: Why should they not make new items purchasable via colo thropies

Edited by crafter4epics, 29 December 2014 - 05:03 PM.

[Khinhazzard]

i wonder if RO2 will ever have a PK channel? PK channel usually gives out additional bonuses such as extra EXP and drop rate on that specific channel but with risks of being killed by other players. maybe implement hero / killer status too? or just simple old PK channel. carnage and fun.

 

I hope they will implement this.. it would be fun killing other players while they are grinding.. you kill them and steal their spot for grinding..

[Greven79]

I hope they will implement this.. it would be fun killing other players while they are grinding.. you kill them and steal their spot for grinding..

 

Well, why not make enough grinding spots in the first place?