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Priest skills too Overpowered!


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#1 pipobacani

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 02:58 AM

Oratio and Crescent Goodbye!!! even potions can't survive 

Priest - Asperio Stun Oratio and Cresent genesis Ray GG
             Oratio -Cresent Genesis Ray GG

             Oratio- Cresent ..Heal Reno Heal = GG
 

Too High Dots even no Good Equips 


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#2 Cailen

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 03:26 AM

Make a pvp priest, then go duel a monk. Come back with a new complaint.

 

FYI, there is no such skill as Crescent. I think you mean Credo. Also, priests almost always start with Credo and not Oratio, as it has a longer range and higher damage output.


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#3 Oyufam

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 04:26 AM

:p_hi:  look at there buffs first while killing them , or while they are running 0-0 then you would know 

 

prolly u tryd to killed them by introduced your self XD hi im a knight !!!


Edited by Oyufam, 22 January 2015 - 04:28 AM.

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#4 Lenalee18

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 03:12 PM

yeah high damage super low defense what more you want just kill him before he dots you and its done


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#5 RenKasha

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 06:40 PM

moving it to another post but i agree on the overpowered.


Edited by RenKasha, 02 March 2015 - 06:54 PM.

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#6 DPSwannabe

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 12:27 PM

i don't want to cry here but I need confirmation if priests has a nerf planned? There is no doubt that the class is too OP compared to most of the other classes, let us not say oh because priests are too soft, go ahead and play crec and explain to me why priests got chain stun, double DoT, a barrage of heals and a party buff seeked by all while crec got what? xD

 

If there is no scheduled or planned nerf on this class even just the stuns, im gonna go and roll one! the DoTs are ok, but chain stuns are not!


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#7 HokaHoka

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 12:33 PM

the dots ain't ok, buddy....


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#8 DPSwannabe

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 12:41 PM

well yeah, they are not ok, but on hierarchy of what it has that I feel is too OP, its gotta be the chain stun that has to go first, but yea, both (stun&dot) needs to be nerfed of some sort. not totally removed but receiving almost 20k dmg every tick is not something you expect from a priest, maybe from a class supposed to specialize in that area ie. wiz/sorc/crec but definitely not priest!


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#9 HokaHoka

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 09:37 PM

^ oh pls make it wizards! 


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#10 Greven79

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 07:37 AM

^ oh pls make it wizards! 

 

Already done. A Fireball DoT can deal the 20k damage per tick... and he can cast other spells in the meantime.

 

Let's make a short quiz:

 

A Priest, Warrior, Monk, Crecentia and Thief meet together. All of them have 15 skillpoints to distribute and there aren't any skill prerequisites.

 

Priest:  Oratio lvl5, Credo lvl5. Adoramus lvl5

Warrior:  Bash lvl5, Rage Strike lvl10

Crecentia:  Furnunculus lvl5, Crucio lvl10

Monk: Raging Blow lvl10, Heavy Tackle lvl5

Thief:  Double Attack lvl5, Cross Impact lvl5, Deadly Blow lvl5

 

The questions:

How much damage should they deal or who should have the highest DPS?

 

Take the 20k damage per tick as a measurement base and state how much damage every class should deal every 2sec (a tick).

 

None of them has chosen any heals, none of them has any tank aura, so they alll decided to go with the DPS role. So both the Priest and the monk have less HP than the rest (12 HP per VIT) and have the lowest defense rate (both wear cloth armor).

 

I am curious to see, how much certain classes would have to suffer for spending their skillpoints in a certain way you might not have chosen, just for having the option that they decided otherwise.


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#11 HokaHoka

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 09:00 AM

Well...

 

the Priest should deal like 2k, 2.5k, 1k every 2 sec,

the Warrior should deal 1k per Bash and 7k per RStrike,

the noel should deal 5k, 1k every 2 sec,

the Monk should deal 2k per Raging Blow and like 3-4k per Heavy Tackle,

and the Thief should deal 1.5k, 2k, and 3k.

 

From high to low--> Thief, Warrior, Monk, Noel, Priest.


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#12 DPSwannabe

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 01:37 PM

I just hope they don't break stuff anymore Than they should, for example, vigor is not broken imho, it gives way to build up your character, the broken thing is the cooldown of priests stun that enables them to chain it. Fixing the cooldown should be the path instead of globally changing vigor to avoid more imbalances.
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#13 Greven79

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 08:55 AM

the Priest should deal like 2k, 2.5k, 1k every 2 sec,

the Warrior should deal 1k per Bash and 7k per RStrike,

the noel should deal 5k, 1k every 2 sec,

the Monk should deal 2k per Raging Blow and like 3-4k per Heavy Tackle,

and the Thief should deal 1.5k, 2k, and 3k.

 

From high to low--> Thief, Warrior, Monk, Noel, Priest.

 

These are the calculated DPS values with no vigor, no cast speed at all.

 

DPS values:

Noel: 3.00k

Priest: 2.75k

Monk: 2.25~2.50k

Thief: ~1.9k
Warrior: ~1.3k

 

Calculation:

Spoiler

 

The Noel would deal the highest amount of damage, more than twice as much as the Warrior.

 

Noone has a gap closers, noone a stun/knockdown/freeze skills and noone a heal skills. The only remaining differences are range (melee vs. 20~25m), defense rates (cloth, leather & heavy armor) and what I call "effort". And "effort" means how much time you waste to activate a skill and if it has other drawbacks.

 

F.e. the 3x Priest DoTs can be used on the run and have a duration of 20sec. This means the Priest could cast 3 DoTs on a single target, generating the given DPS output and then either run around the remaining 16~17sec or focus on additional targets. Thanks to the low effort to keep these skills running (1click//1sec every 20sec), he would perform much better.

 

And we could add 10 more skillpoints to this calculation:

 

Now, the Priest could add a Holy Light lvl10. Due to the high duration of the DoTs, he's able to spam the Holy Light while the DoTs are still running, resulting in an extremely high DPS output. Something the other classes would never be able to achieve without DoTs.

Alternatively, the priest could take a Heal+Renovatio or Highness Heal lvl10 instead. Then he can spam these skills while the DoTs are running, negating the damage received from other classes. And no hitpoint-increase the tank classes could choose would be able to compete..

 

So IMO, the only way to balance this is to make the DoTs significantly weaker, lowering the duration and maybe even adding a casting time or other drawbacks as well.

 

My suggestion would have been:

 

Priest: Oratio 0.7k; Credo 0.7k; Adoramus 0.7k (all 3 with 10sec cooldown)

Noel: Crucio 4.4k, Furnunculus 0.7k (with 10sec cooldown)

Monk: Raging Blow 2.3k; Heavy Tackle 3.1k

Thief: Double Attack 2.1k;  Deadly Blow 3.9k; Cross Impact 3.0k

Warrior: Bash 2.1k;  Rage Strike 8k

 

Now everyone except the Priest would have the same DPS ratio: ~2.5k per sec.

 

Such a Priest can't compete with the others classes, but he can still keep all the DoTs up on 3 different targets, resulting in a higher overall DPS than other classes. If he would like to focus on a single target instead, he would have to choose a Holy Light lvl10 and one DoT instead. HL would deal ~4.4k damage, just like a Crucio (I ignored the DoT part on that skill).

 

And if the Priest would have chosen a Renovatio: That one would only recover ~0.7k damage every 2sec and would stll have a duration of ~10sec. So, if the Priest would combine a Holy Light lvl10 and a Renovatio, his Revo would outheal the Furnunculus and his Holy Light would be as effective as a Crucio.

.. or he could outheal the extra damage of a Heavy Tackle, making it a fight between Raging Blow and Holy Light.

 

But I am alone with this idea.


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#14 HokaHoka

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 09:17 AM

the math seems legit.


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#15 rzevidz007

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 10:28 AM

Either way, priest is way to overpowered.

A healer shouldn't be this good at dps, not to mention it is on par if not higher than other should-be dps classes like thieves. 

And where's that archer class calculation when you need them!? lol


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#16 9632130515120055620

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 11:07 AM

Judex is the biggest issue with priest. Yes, DoTs ignoring defense is really stupid and should be fixed, but assuming the priest gets the first hit, they win any duel ever because of the retardation of judex stun spam. Perma stun with credo+oratio insta casts on you and there's nothing you can do. Oh did I mention they can stunlock 10 people at once in group PvP? Pretty fair right.

 

Just make an assassin and 1 shot them from hide and give them a taste of true balance. It's kind of your only hope at killing one.


Edited by 9632130515120055620, 12 April 2015 - 11:13 AM.

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#17 Greven79

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 10:24 AM

Either way, priest is way to overpowered. A healer shouldn't be this good at dps, not to mention it is on par if not higher than other should-be dps classes like thieves. 

 

Judex is the biggest issue with priest. Yes, DoTs ignoring defense is really stupid and should be fixed, but assuming the priest gets the first hit, they win any duel ever because of the retardation of judex stun spam. Perma stun with credo+oratio insta casts on you and there's nothing you can do. Oh did I mention they can stunlock 10 people at once in group PvP? Pretty fair right.

 

Just make an assassin and 1 shot them from hide and give them a taste of true balance. It's kind of your only hope at killing one.

 

Well, it seems we will never achieve a class balance this way.

 

What is worse? Running around invisible killing targets with the first strike or a perma-stun that still takes time to kill the target, is more or less negated by a Cure and still leaves the Priest vulnerable to attacks from a 3rd person? And what increases the survivability of a class more? A passively higher defense rate or an invisibility most of the times, combined with a temporary 100% dodge rate plus a higher movement speed?

 

You see, it's easy to highlight the problems of other classes. I could even do a more precise rant and state that Assassins should have their Shadow Armor cooldown changed to 180sec, lowering the effect to a 50% damage reduction as well. Since tanks ought to deal lower damage and probably will with the suggested BT change, they should have the better damage protection, right? The same way, I could state that the healing value on Gangster's Paradise and Grimtooth are better than those for tanks and have to be weakened or that stealth character should neither have speed bonuses nor slow effects as they can always use their Hide to get close. Or would you like to see knights with a permanent 100% perfect dodge until thy attack... that's just a pendant to Hide.

 

But this all aside, I've never seen or heard anything usable...anything really precise enough that it could be put to a test.

 

Have you two played a priest in WoE f.e.? Because if the player quote would state a thing, asassins are still preferred over priests. So IMO, it's not just enough to state that a something is OP, that priests should have a lower DPS than other classes or to state that DoTs ought to get weaker, it's also  necessary to state how they meant to be and to consider what makes players choose a certain class.

 

And where's that archer class calculation when you need them!? lol

 

You would be surprised  


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#18 Shinyusuke

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 12:21 AM

I have only 3 question:

Why priests have 3 dots that can be casted together?

Why they only need to hit a button to have 3 holy water (that don't have a time limit top use them) when all the other classes need to use other skills to acquire points to use for final skills?

why does they have a so powerfull healing skill that not even need to be maxed to out heal the tank total hp?


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#19 9632130515120055620

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 12:28 AM

I'd prefer a priest over sin in WoE actually. Yes, sins are the strongest PvP class right now due to hide/huge damage/shadow armor safety, that's undeniable, but a single priests' ability to defend an emp because they can chain stun entire raids.. that seems a little more impactful to me. Come to think of it.. why does priest have a stun at all?


Edited by 9632130515120055620, 11 May 2015 - 12:29 AM.

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#20 Kyperion

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 02:11 AM

Its because we don't have Magical Defense(MATK) in this game, and the percentage of those DoT are too much. blame the developers for that


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#21 Telovi

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 11:56 PM

1. Can't cast all three DoTs at once and even if you succeed in stacking them accurately and optimistically, they're all approximately equal to one Wizard's or Sorcerer's critical Fireball DoT.

2. Sorcerer and Soulmaker - the other support ranged classes - are also able to use their ultimate skills without build up.

3. Because Priest is without pairs in cast-healing department thanks to Meditatio and Aspersio, but hey, even my Sorcerer and Soulmaker doesn't have any fully maxed healing skill.

By grinding as a Priest that changed from an Acolyte without Pandora and helps, any rational people can understand how this class is played, why skills are designed like that, and what make it different when compare to other classes.

Priest, even in its current PVP states, is not exactly as effortless and invisible as people without first-handed experience on this class tend to exaggerate. Precision, attentiveness and luck are as demanded by this class as others. People either don't play Priest enough nor kill enough Priests to see through all those hovering immortality aura, and see it for what it is: A killable class with its own flaws.

That being said, even if there is a gap-less PVP exchanges between each classes, there will never be a fair PVP environment for every players. Sure, every formulas and skills' modifiers can be fixed to make them somehow balance, but no MMO developers can possibly balance player's investments nor fix player's brain lags.
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#22 Greven79

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 06:36 AM

Come to think of it.. why does priest have a stun at all?

 

Because every class has a combat-denial effect, be it freeze, stun, knockdown, slow, snare, sleep, hit-chance debuff, etc. Why the priest got a stun and not a silence is hard to tell, as well as the question why it was added to an AoE skill and why it's on a skill usable every few seconds.

 

Personally, I'd prefer if the stun would be added to Lex Divina f.e. or if it would be a Silence added to Magnus Exorcism (limited to a 10m range).

 

But you'll never see such a change... it's simply too complex and would therefore leave too many things "uncertain".


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#23 Greven79

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 07:53 AM

Why priests have 3 dots that can be casted together?

Why they only need to hit a button to have 3 holy water (that don't have a time limit top use them) when all the other classes need to use other skills to acquire points to use for final skills?

why does they have a so powerfull healing skill that not even need to be maxed to out heal the tank total hp?

 

1) Lack of creativity.

 

Originally, the DoTs weren't meant to replace your normal attack and were therefore more like an additional damage bonus. The same way, a Wizard once had a Firebolt DoT, a Fireball DoT and a Fireflower DoT... and Rangers have their Poison Arrow DoT, Multishot DoT and the Falcon Assault (similar to an DoT).

 

But unlike many other classes, Priests had some good representatives or just the love of the developers and so their DoTs were properly transferrred into the AoV era and even got an unfair increase balancing fix later (just like the thieves). But even up to now, most players believe that the introduction of the BIBLE was the unfair change >_>.

_______________

 

2) IMO it's not true what Telovi said. Every class has some sort of restriction. Sorcerers would have to freeze their target first or would have to gather Wind - Crest 'stacks' by casting Cold Bolt to maximize the damage output. Noels usually have to activate their Awake form to cast their 'real' ultimates (Immunity // Death Grip), whereas their 'secondary' ones either have a much higher cooldown or - more importantly - a casting time as a drawback. If it wouldn't be all to easy to nullify that one, a Soulmaker might still rely on the Glass Mental trigger.

 

And the same way, a Ray of Genesis would either have a casting time as well or would require you to spend a second casting Aspersio to avoid it. >_>

 

So the more plausible reason behind this concept IMO is that most other classes get their charges//stacks and other 'goodies' simply by attacking, whereas priests would have interrupt their actions to cast Aspersio // Aqua Benedicta, losing DPS/HPS this way. And whereas thieves can plan and  'precast' the x2 damage bonus from Hiding, Sorcerers their Memorize, Wizards their Seal Explosion, etc., the Priests could precast their Aqua Benedicta.

 

But that's only the attempt for a justification and not a statement whether I like it or not!

 

In fact - as a VCR - I once commented on that issue as well, but got quite an "emotional" response. And since this happens in 99% of all cases when I add a feedback or thought (I rarely made real suggestions), I didn't push it any further... It simply gets too annoying arguing why a certain 'class specialty' or 'inbalance' ought to be left untouched. As I said, "players get the game they deserve!".

_______________

 

3) That's not the fault of the healing skill itself, more about the general inbalance between skill percentages, defense rates and player hitpoints. It only gets 'unfair' as soon as the target has a 75% defense rate and 20%+ damage reduction to lower the damage output of an attack, whereas the heal skill ignores all that.

 

But than, you would have to ask why players wanted such a high defense rate, why they voted to bring CLS runes back and why they insisted on the greenseeds, etc. As easy as the answer is, the unlikely it is to get it undone.


Edited by Greven79, 22 May 2015 - 08:28 AM.

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#24 Telovi

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 10:39 AM

1. Dots were intended to work as another variation of secondary ranged damage skills like Double Strate, Lighting Bolt, and Mental Breakdown. And they still are.

2. You are confusing optimization with restriction.

3. Your argument can be used to justify Battle Tactic too.
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#25 Greven79

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 10:12 AM

1. Dots were intended to work as another variation of secondary ranged damage skills like Double Strate, Lighting Bolt, and Mental Breakdown. And they still are.

 

No, the difference between a Double Strafing and a DoT is that the former has no requirement, but typically a low damage output that is distributed over a large period of time, whereas the latter is a 'special attack' that can be used only occationally.

 

This gets more obvious if you compare Bash with a Head Crush... a Charge Arrow with a Poison Arrow.... or if you just look at the Poisoning Weapon passive skill.

 

2. You are confusing optimization with restriction.

 

Sure, in case of the freeze, you might call it 'optimization'. But you could also call it a restriction, if the unoptimized effect is worse than other options. One good example is Aura Strike. Sure, it's not strictly forbidden to use the skill without consuming Auras, but this way the skill is even worse than a normal Bash. The same way, it's not necessary to boost a Varetyr Spear with the additional freeze bonus, but without it, it might not be worth the skillpoints.

 

3. Your argument can be used to justify Battle Tactic too.

 

Not really.

 

I was referring to the heal vs. armor and the HP vs. defense rate issues... and that has nothing to do with Battle Tactics. If you replace defense rate with a higher hitpoint total, BT would still be as broken as before, but the heal skills would be 'weakened' as they would then recover a lower percentage of your total HP.

 

Example:

Instead of a 75% defense rate, the players could have four times as much hitpoints instead. So let's assume you have 50k HP and an attack deals 100k damage (before defense):

 

With 75% defense rate:

- The attack deals only 25k damage, i.e. 50% of your total HP.

 

With 0% defense rate, but 200k HP:

- The attack deals the full 100k damage, but that's still only 50% of your total HP.

 

So you lose 50% in both cases!

 

A certain heal skill however, will restore the same amount of hitpoints.... f.e. 50k in both scenarios. But whereas that's 100% of your total HP in the first case, it would be only 25% in the second one. Ergo, they would be weaker.

 

And that's the crux. The developers didn't think about the concequences when they introduced the much higher refinement bonuses that can boost the defense by 270% and when they added other options like damage reduction seeds. If they would have been aware of the armor-bypass issue of DoTs and heal skills in general, they might have chosen to increase the HPs instead.

______

 

But a word on Battle Tactics:

 

Yes, there might be a scenario, where the skill would be balanced. That's the case when it would be as effective as increasing another stat like STR overall. That's simply not the case... just calculate how much STR you need in order to achieve a similar effect as a 1k INT Battle Tactics f.e.

 

But even in such a case, BT still has other issues.

 

First of all, it's a SKILL, not a stat. So it would still be the only skill that is directly dependant on a certain stat. Just imagine if other skills would be like that. Thieves could get armor penetration depending on their INT or WIS stat... or if haste, vigor, movement speed, drop chance, combat XP etc. would be based on stats as well.

 

Secondly, Battle Tactics would still be more dangerous as other options as it increases the peek damage dramatically, whereas STR and AGI create much 'smoother' benefits. If a standard attack or a lucky AoE can one-shot targets, it's much worse than a generally higher average damage that still allows for proper responses.

 

In other words. If you just increase the average damage, the normal gameplay stays the same. So just introduce a proper HP increase and you would have countered it. But if you allow BT that might transform your very first attack into a deadly blow, that's killing the game - no matter how small the likelyness is.


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