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Priest skills too Overpowered!


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#26 Telovi

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 02:19 AM

1.

That's why I said it is a variation, or for this argument sake, a variation of variation. Also, Main Ranger bypasses the requirement of using Double Strate and allows a period of spamable state given the chance.

2.

Aura Strike is a poor example for two reasons:

First, the skill itself functions as more like a secondary/non-primary/spamable skill than a ultimate/finisher skill during my hours of being Swordie.

Second, Aura Strike doesn't have Wind Seal proc, that still boost double damage for each damaging lighting skill used after it porc'd regardless of target status being.

I admit of using Frost Diver frequently whenever I pvp with my sorc, but not for the reason that I think Varetyr Spear is worthless without a frozen target.

3.

I thought you were judging broken skills versus broken environment in which you defended the former. I was half-correct.
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#27 Greven79

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 04:02 PM

1:

 

I think it's just a misunderstanding, so let me try to formulate it differently. Due to the fact that the same DoT usually doesn't stack and due to their low-damage-long-duration nature, I usually see them more as a passive damage bonus than a 'special' attack.

 

A Double Strafing - a special attack - f.e. can be used to increase the DPS momentarily. And Main Ranger supports that (Main Ranger is 'just a variation' of an Aura Mastery (Knight) or Combo Mastery (Rogue), limited to a single skill (it basically generates 60 Concentration usuable for Double Strafing). That's why it was my default strategy in pre-AoV Colo to use Charge Arrow first, gathering concentration points and to assure the kill by casting multiple Double Strafings in a row.

 

DoTs on contrast are usually added as a side-effect of an attack (Head Crush, Poison Arrow, etc.) and neither creates an instantaneous damage boost nor would it make sense to use them in quick succession (usually the same DoT effect doesn't stack). So to me, these DoTs feel more like some of Armor Rip, Raw Tilt, etc. Or if you want to, like an ATK bonus on your next attack (that will happen about the same time the DoT ticks for the first time).

 

And that's why I would make the DoTs similar effective as these passive ATK bonuses. To be more precise: A player then has the choice using an aura (f.e. Shadow Form) dealing 20% more damage (exaggerated) on any following attack for a few seconds OR using a DoT that deals 20% of the usual attack damage roughly at the same frequency as you would normally attack (every 1.5~2sec).

 

Example:

Base value: normal Bash deals 1,000 damage

 

Special attack: Aura Strike would deal 1,600 damage on every 4th strike (after 3 Bash)

20% passive: Bash deals 1,200 damage

using DoT skills: Using Head Crush, following up with a Bash every 2sec that still deals 1,000 damage, plus the 200 damage DoT that triggers as well.

 

As you can see in this example, each of the three lower options (special attack, passive bonus and DoT) would increase your average damage by roughly 20%. So none of these options would be strictly supperior. It should also be obvious that it would take 5x DoTs combined (5x 200) to achieve the same effect as the base value/attack (1000), so DoTs aren't real attacks, nor special attacks (extra damage), only an extra damage bonus.

 

And such a limitation would be really necessary. Because the advantage of DoTs is that you can use other skills while they are 'running', effectively increasing your DPS output. If a Head Crush DoT f.e. would deal ~200% per tick (as an Oratio does right now), the Knight could still use all his other attacks in the meantime.

___________________

 

2:

Also seems to be a misunderstanding:

First of all, I didn't care whether the Aura Strike is an ultimate attack or not. I used Aura Strike because that skill consumes stacks. So if you want to, we can use Deadly Blow and Shadow Explosion instead. Now whereas Wind Seal stacks are used to double the damage of a Lightning Bolt, JT or Varetyr Spear, the combo-point stacks are used to cast a Deadly Blow (up to 140% extra damage compared to a Double Attack) or a Shadow Explosion (~100% extra damage compared to a Shadow Strike).

 

In other words, both the wind seal proc and the combo stacks are used for extra damage... and in both cases, it's optional to either focus on the seal procs or on generating combo-points. The main difference is only that Mages boost the skill itself, whereas other classes make you to use a different skills instead, if you don't have or don't want to spend the combo-points.

 

Second of all, the Wind Seal proc is also just a variant of an Aura Mastery (Knight) or Combo Mastery (Rogue), being similar 'random'. Or you could compare it with the Mark of Shadow debuff that increases the damage of the next Shadow Strike by 100%.

 

But my original point was, that as noone forces you to obtain Wind Seal stacks, noone forces other classes to gather Auras, Rage, Combo Points or Concentration... and noone forces you to use these stacks to activate high-damage skills.

___________________

 

3:

Well, yes you can call the current 90% defense rates a 'broken environment'. That's why I usually don't blame the DoTs // Heals for bypassing armor, but blame the devs for creating // tolerating these kinds of defense rates. Because making DoTs effected by defense would still leave the heals untouched.

 

And this is easily done: We just have to replace damage reduction with defense rate and vice versa, because only the latter is inefficient against DoTs. So the gear you wear rather  grant damage reduction value that is later translated in a damage reduction rate (you could call it armor or protection rate). And on contrast, all the skills, seeds. CLS runes, etc. give you a fix defense rate instead that don't help against DoTs.

 

IMO, you'll still have the same issues with Cure & Highness Heal at least, but maybe a few more players will realize what damage increase seeds and PvP damage increase hones & runes have ruined.


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#28 Kyperion

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 04:44 PM

:p_laugh: I dont think It, its OP its just the same as RO1 battle Priest with a build like a knight/Crusader STR&AgI....  :pif:


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#29 Telovi

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Posted 28 May 2015 - 01:39 AM


What you claimed as to be a misunderstanding is actually a different perspective of a player who spent hours on fields. Doesn't make it superior or inferior than the perspective of players who spent hours on papers, just different view from different position.


1.

I care how you label the skill nature just as much you care how I do mines. Please refer to the opening paragraph of this post.

Is Priest currently in possession of a skill that has uninterrupted cast, zero cooldown, possible double damage, power seed bondable, and status effect from seed rolling the dice on every hits?

2.

What you called as your original point is in fact the second point of my first post in this thread. You won't disagreed at first and dragged it far, if you really had the same mind. Again, refer to this post's opening.

3.

Actually by broken environment I meant to describe an effortless environment, where light investments are enough to achieve the sort things only heavy investments can. I won't call 90% defence rates or other attributes as broken environment or even broken attributes, because they are the necessary carrot sticks to keep the donkeys going.

A broken game environment to a player is akin to an unplanned carrot farm stop to a donkey. If my carriage stuck half-way into destination, I'd blame the danglers for oversight and the donkeys for voraciousness, but never the baits for temptation.

I agree to doing a swap with defense rate and damage reduction.
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#30 Greven79

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Posted 01 June 2015 - 10:17 AM

What you claimed as to be a misunderstanding is actually a different perspective of a player who spent hours on fields. Doesn't make it superior or inferior than the perspective of players who spent hours on papers, just different view from different position.

 

At least a nicely included 'assumption'. I hope you didn't based your reply solely on this, because I am afraid that you're mistaken..

 

My main character pre-AoV was a Priest and is ML35 for quite a while. The only reason why it isn't my favorite character is because I started it as a full-support. But that became more and more obsolete with the introduction of the pet system and the AoV formula changes. And if I would want to play a DPS class, I'd choose an Assassin over a Priest anytimes, even despite the seemiingly OP DoTs.

 

Is Priest currently in possession of a skill that has uninterrupted cast, zero cooldown, possible double damage, power seed bondable, and status effect from seed rolling the dice on every hits?

 

I am afraid, I can't follow you on that one: What do you mean with 'uninterrupted cast'? And of what kind of 'double damage' are you talking about?
 

What you called as your original point is in fact the second point of my first post in this thread. You won't disagreed at first and dragged it far, if you really had the same mind.

 

Well, I stick to the truth, I disagreed to your statement about "Sorcerer and Soulmaker - the other support ranged classes - are also able to use their ultimate skills without build up." right in my first reply. You used the phrase "builds up" and that was simply too much of a simplification in my opinion. It ignores the more subtle drawbacks like cast time, awake form requirement, damage potential and/or cooldown.

 

For me, a cast time is still a build up. Monks and rogues f.e. can bypass the usual combat-centric stack generation by activating their reset skills right before the combat. But still, I wouldn't call it "no build-up", despite the fact that the ultimate skill can be used right away. (Same way with a Sorcerer that casts Memorize to cast a Fireball and JT without cast time).

 

I differ between these things because for me, it's not really necessary to give all 'ultimate' skills a hard stack requirement. Instead, for me it's enough if the other drawbacks are reasonably 'restricting // punishing' as well.

 

3.

Actually by broken environment I meant to describe an effortless environment, where light investments are enough to achieve the sort things only heavy investments can. I won't call 90% defence rates or other attributes as broken environment or even broken attributes, because they are the necessary carrot sticks to keep the donkeys going.

 

And here, we have a clearly different opinion. As I said, for me, defense is just an alternative to hitpoints. So maybe you need a 90% defense rate 'to keep the donkey going', but I would be satisfied with more hitpoints as well. And contrary to defense rates, hitpoints won't reach a cap and wouldn't cause the tremendous DoT issues.

 

I agree to doing a swap with defense rate and damage reduction.

 

I don't. I mentioned it to show how some suggerstions would fix a single aspect by making others more severe. So I'd be happy if my carriage gets stucked half-way if it steering right at a wall.


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#31 Telovi

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Posted 01 June 2015 - 02:50 PM


All those Bash and Aura Strike references make it seems like you're also kinda assumed I don't wasted times on Swordies, to be honest.

_______________

Uninterrupted cast as in instant cast, and double damage as in critical damage. Since LotS I always saw Priest's DoTs as another variation of the spambable low damage skill, that all other classes have. And its defense ignoring is intended to make up for its inability to produce critical damage.

_______________

My wording got everything to do with how I want to answer a question from another forum user, about why it's only Priest who doesn't need to go through the process of building points in order to use its ultimate skill. It got nothing to do with how you think about it, and I could care less.

_______________

HP increment will sit nicely on my list of baits, if it ever finds its way into the game.

_______________

Whatever it takes to have some piece of quite, I will agree to.
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#32 nelsky27

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 03:48 PM

Priest skills overpowered... well, even though the skills are overpowered, it still takes a certain amount of skill to execute it and build it perfectly with gears runes etc... I believe (being a priest for quite a while), that we priests has pro's and con's just like other classes, we enjoy the pro's and we endure the con's same as other classes so, do not hate /-_- about overpowering skills of priest because we must admit that all classes has it's own imbalance "depending on the user the imbalance is taken advantaged of or not"


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#33 Kyperion

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 06:30 PM

All class have strengths and weaknesses it's just a matter of how will you accept it and make the most of what you have when you choose to play that class. Priest aren't OP it was built that way (cause based on my knowledge in Ro1 priests are either Support class or a Demon/undead/Ghost Buster class), since Soul Maker (Which I am enjoying to play now)  took away the Full-Support role in the game and Crescentia have DOT since it's the only thing that class can do... so LOGIC is... And please bring back Ray of Genesis Skill animation from LoTS :)

 

 

                                                                                     :p_love: "All-Hail Kyper" :p_hi: 


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#34 SolM77186

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 06:09 AM

Lel guys...stop saying priest aren't OP, of course they're OP as hell, they have OP dot's, OP chain stun, OP heals, so please, knock it off after all. Priest is an easy class and an OP class. i've been playing priest for now 3 years and it has been OP since the begining.


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#35 Edgarius

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:52 PM

Not a long time player for PR Job, but our weakness was located in our Casting Time. Granted our DoTs was kinda hurt plus with Aspersio + Judex we can stun as many people as we want, but that doesn't mean we PR Having the same advantaged in short range combat.

 

Knight can stun us from short range so PR must run for their live before getting hit by Knight.

Warrior can Knockout us with their ultimate attack which can leave PR useless in everything.

Assassin can Hide and due to their AGI their hits is often critical to the certain points, leaving it a gamble PvP. If PR Healing powers is able to cover PR damage then Assassin is the one who would be lose, but if it's not then PR is the one who would lose... It's a vice versa PvP.

 

Conclusion is, we PR can be defeated too by many players in many reasons as we don't have much VIT, and especially a short range combat.... It's a forbidden zone for PR who have a slow time casting.


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#36 5318130516144610857

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 06:26 PM

I have a few suggestions to make pvp priests weaker, besides lowering DOT damage:

 

- Cap Judex with Aspersio stun to a limit of 3 players max.

- Cap the number of simultaneous targets priest can DOT to 2 or 3. I'll explain better: if the priest place dots on more than 2 or 3 targets, the first target will have his dots instantly removed. The simultaneous targets limit for a priest will always be 2 or 3 with a first-in-first-out scenario if DOTs are placed on 4 or more targets. Up to WP to decide what they think is the best limit. I think 3 would be perfect, 2 is acceptable but a bit low. This of course has to be considered with the severity of the damage nerf of DOTs: the higher the nerf, the more targets the priest class should be allowed to put DOTs on simultaneously.

 

I know this topic isn't probably the best place to give this kind of suggestion but I'll leave it here for consideration.


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