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Introducing KVM Armors to the Classic Server


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#51 zerowon

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 10:04 AM

hi remember me i used to be part of the original content circa 2009 why is kvm not in it yet......

 video documentation included 

 

 

https://youtu.be/c4J8FQxpb0I


Edited by zerowon, 08 September 2015 - 10:11 AM.

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#52 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 05:19 PM

I love how that video so perfectly illustrated the biggest problem with KvM. The map is way too big and people can just run around forever to wait the timer out.

 

Also still no to KvM weapons. Armours would be nice.

 

And for fun option: Change the elemental redux on KvM Rings to be neutral instead.


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#53 Xellie

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 08:59 AM

yes to kvm armor sets (minus accessories)

no to weapons

no to farming


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#54 zerowon

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 06:58 PM

8OeUx2g.jpg


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#55 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 09:37 PM

tfw when your hero Doddles said
 

If you want to be strong in PVP then you need some pvp gears, and the only way to get your pvp gear now is to buy lucky boxes, get KVM points, and use the kafra shop upgrader to make high upgrade items.  It's absurd, and I'm sick of it.

 
KvM weapons balls broken with their damage output anyway. If anything we need more defensive gears.


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#56 Castello

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 09:44 PM

errr, you do understand that he was talking about the pay2win issue, not kvm itself, right?

 

way to misinterpret things -_-


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#57 zerowon

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 09:45 PM

tfw when your hero Doddles said


KvM weapons balls broken with their damage output anyway. If anything we need more defensive gears.

look before we talk about adding new defensive gear how bout we get to new world update and all the gear t brought it in to balance out things before we put in new stuff
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#58 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 10:11 PM

errr, you do understand that he was talking about the pay2win issue, not kvm itself, right?

 

way to misinterpret things -_-

 

You know was well as I do that if they put KvM in, people will stop using it after a month or so except to alt farm (since it's mechanically unfair, the map is disgusting, and the win/loss triggers and warper are broken) and will start requesting KvMs in boxes because "omg nobody playing and too hard to farm and sometimes doesn't work".

 

We're under the same management as back then. Just look at all the stupid things they've been throwing in boxes without community consultation in recent months. Mark my words - that crappy series of events will play out on this server as well. Half of the stuff Doddlekins used to complain about is already on Classic, despite him (and many others) making some really heartfelt posts about the server's future and how it should be directed and Heim wholeheartedly agreeing and promising balance and no P2W while simultaneously doing everything they spoke out against XD

 

Also, and I'm sure you're aware of this too but KvM depreciates like 90% of all other gear options for PvP, and the equipment sourced from there is so overwhelmingly strong that for all things except armour swapping to deal with certain specific types of damage, and status weapons that very few classes use, they're better than pretty much everything and create a MASSIVE power gap between the haves and have-nots. People will end up crying for balance due to not being able to get their KvMs to compete, and WP will concede with badges sourced from other avenues of play (read: purchase). Just like the old servers!

 

Seriously if you entertain the idea of MOAR MONEY with WarpPortal, even jokingly and knowing that the game will suffer for it, they'll take it and run the server into the ground with it. Balance be damned. Competition be damned.

 

They always will.

 

Also some stuff is already much too strong on this server because of the insane Renewal gear that WP somehow thought would be a good idea to mix in (because moar money - it's all been Cash Shop sourced), and KvM would just blow that stuff out to comical levels of b0rken.

 

look before we talk about adding new defensive gear how bout we get to new world update and all the gear t brought it in to balance out things before we put in new stuff

 

They're currently using the DB entries for New World to implement Challenge Dungeon content, among other things.

 

And Themes proposed that a few New World drops be sourced from the Challenge Dungeon in order to put that content out without having to brick the devs' ability to add future custom dungeons and events. Go +1 and comment on that if you haven't already.


Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 16 September 2015 - 10:40 PM.

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#59 Themes

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 12:40 AM

As soon as anyone utters KVM people seem to start frothing at the mouth and their eyes roll back into their heads rendering them unable to read anything further while they wildly hit keys denouncing the existence of it on this server.

 

I'd encourage people to read the following three posts:

  • Campitors OP that proposes a new system for acquiring these on this server
  • Tolrins post that talks about diversifying the sources (while making sure there was a PvP element still involved), stressing that these items be acquired at their intended rate and that KVM was the last piece of balancing that was done before Renewal was launched
  • My post reflecting on the jRO link system that this has been adapted from, talking about rarity and the modifications to the items themselves (requiring overupgrading to be useful)

As well as the jRO Link System this idea was borrowed from. Make sure you look at the changes made to the items at the bottom as well as the costs of each piece of gear.

 

Now, I dont know how many people arguing this have actually played on a server where KVM was not bugged/exploited/cash shop. But I'm going to hazard a guess that it's not very many (myself included). Nobody wants that on this server, when we talk about implementing KVM we talk about adding a system where people have to work for their items, it takes them 2-4 months of regular playing (few hours a week) to get themselves a weapon and something closer to 10+ months for a single ring.

 

I know Xellie (call out wee ooo) and some other people are VERY against the rings so I'm going to re-write the example I used in my post, in order to get a KVM Ring from the jRO link, it takes a group of 12 players four months of ET runs to gather enough ashes for a single person to get a ring. So as a single player doing ET once a week it would take you 50 months to get ashes for a ring, now obviously that's not a fair example, people can buy/trade coins or do it multiple times a week, but it shows the amount of time/effort we're looking at requiring here and if it's still not enough lets talk about it.

 

There's a lot of genuine issues I understand people getting behind with the KVM stuff here's some that stick out to me:

  • Duping/upgrading exploits (while RMT makes it less likely account bound woo!) these could still be happening
  • Strong effects (Rings, +9 weapons mostly)
  • Rate/method of acquisition

These are all things we'd like to address or avoid, nobody wants the server to turn into guilds full of players with +9 KVM weapons and GR/DR running around killing each other stacked to the tits with Gods/MVP cards as well.

 

The duping/upgrading is an ongoing issue, the GMs would keep an eye on it making sure that one week suddenly 15 new players have +9 KVM weapons and are just ballin outta control from nowhere. If you're worried about enriched being an issue I'm fairly sure we can get the NPCs to reject upgrading KVM weapons (although not Smiths, but a flat 10% isnt as big of a deal as some of the early Enriched upgrades).

 

The strength of these items are undeniable. But we're open to discussion about how to change them to make them more fair/balanced/suitable for our server. Look at what jRO did, they made it so each item needs to be overupgraded to be as good as a regular old fresh +0 item and to compensate for that they got a tiny bit stronger. If you look at the weapons themselves they're supposed to compare to proper end game gear, you're just looking at the 3% chance to make a +9 (or 0.4% without enriched) after spending months farming for it instead of the card rate stuff you'd see from MVPs.

 

The rate/method of acquisition is the biggest point here, people HATED that they were put in shop boxes or only available via mindless KVM farming (Doddlers quote). None of us pushing for KVM to get added want that. What we'd like to be able to do is log on and put some time a couple of hours a week towards earning a real reward we'll be able to use. This system allows people to make slow and steady progress towards a goal and encourages people to participate in a handful of different activities. It even has room for people to buy/trade up and focus on the parts of the system they enjoy doing while still being able to meet their goals.

 

tl;dr - The KVM gear is good, people have a bad taste in their mouth from previous implementations. Some effects may not be suitable for this server, but we're happy to hear peoples ideas for changing the bonuses/affixes. It was the last balance patch before Renewal hit and these things should be available ingame before we start to investigate more custom alternatives (both Xellie and Almr have mentioned enchanting items with neutral resist before). Nobody wants these items showered over the server, the rate of acquisition would be slow enough that we dont feel it instantly, but quick enough to reward people who stick around with proper useful items that isnt entirely based on their RNG card acquiring skills.


Edited by Themes, 17 September 2015 - 12:42 AM.

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#60 Myzery

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 01:16 AM

Since Classic has been wanting PvP tournaments, how about having some KvM badges handed out for those?

The KvM weapons in MOST cases also need to be upgraded pretty high to beat out the competition.

The LK weapon for example is just hands down better at +4 iirc

 

The way to earn badges needs to be fair to everyone.

Possibly some instanced area where you have a significant cooldown (A few days) of entering.

Badges would need to be character bound too to prevent using multiple characters from pooling them.

Probably wouldn't be an issue though if you got a small amount, but then you would have people with no alts at a disadvantage.

 

It's going to be tricky to balance.


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#61 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 02:02 AM

As soon as anyone utters KVM people seem to start frothing at the mouth and their eyes roll back into their heads rendering them unable to read anything further while they wildly hit keys denouncing the existence of it on this server.


Well aren't you a happy chappy.

Will update this post laters with all the jRO KvM weapon stats since you mentioned those as if they should be taken as an example.

IN PROGRESS
Spoiler


Will post a diffchecker link later.

Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 17 September 2015 - 07:01 AM.

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#62 needmorezleep

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 05:31 AM

put in weapons/rings make a tdm bg mode that gives kvm+normal badges people will probably still play it after it gets farmed


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#63 Xellie

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 05:43 AM

I dunno guys, I think there's some other massive balance issues stemming from renewal gear that we have now that should be looked at before more outgoing damage is put in.

 

KVM armor set is nothing, just put it in. Leave the rings/weapons for discussion.

 

Something else to consider is the size of the server. Someone once told me it takes 3~4 people kill one person from the opposing team (returning your call out). This means that individual player strength means a lot more because a lot of the guilds are so tiny. This isn't a huge server how RO is envisioned when these things are made. One person with a kvm weapon, or elemental immunity could ruin things even worse.

 

It's kind of like god items.... Megs dont balance out megs. They make the world a stupid place when the population is so small.

 

Take it from someone who's first instinct is to "solo the other team before bringing the guild"  - we don't want more of these, do we? KVM LKs wiping whole groups, sinxs who once only died to meg sonic blow now unkillable....

 

Each piece of gear needs to be looked at carefully for balance.... no matter how hard it is to obtain, because someone will get it. In the case of stuff like farming ET, who do you THINK will be given that first ring? I know the answer and so do you >.> And I don't think you want that.

 

 


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#64 Themes

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 01:15 PM

I agree 100% that things should be looked at before they get implemented, which is the purpose of my post. Instead of having everyone just saying "noooope" lets talk about specifics.

 

Server size/one man army is a concern also, but how many people do you really expect to have +9 weapons within the first year (or two? or three?) of whatever system we get implemented? The whole goal of adding a system that is entirely unlinked from the KVM BG itself is to do a better job at limiting supply of these items. If it takes a fairly heavy player (30-60 minutes a day, couple of hours weekends) several months to farm a weapon and then they have a 3% chance (lower if you want to remove enriched from the equation) to turn it into what everyone's talking about. The server isnt big/active enough right now that after the first wave of weapons we're going to see half a dozen of these inside the same guild just walking around soloing the server (if they arent already).

 

Also worth considering (especially when using my ET time required example) is that jRO players were limited by the number of accounts they can have and the fact that we have character transfers (KVM weapons/rings should never be transferred). These sorts of things could easily mess with the intended acquisition rates.

 

The weapons/rings dont *have* to go in right now, they can be looked at in detail and added after discussion/modification to their affixes if required. But IMO it's important to build a working system first and we can test it out with the armor that should be available to people by now. Hell the system could be extended to include non-KVM items too and give people more reasons to do the different things spread out around the game.


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#65 Xellie

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 01:20 PM

it only takes one person tho themes...

 

We have already theorized a method to get the ET coins at a rate much faster than anyone would like


Edited by Xellie, 17 September 2015 - 01:26 PM.

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#66 Gn1ydnu

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 12:59 PM

They should NOT put in the original KVM. Make a new map that isn't broken so I can't just bug it to get 30k kvm badges a day. TBH, I wouldn't mind but I suck at playing champ so it would be wasted :(

 

Also, as a modern day paying customer lol... Now and even back when KVM badges first went into boxes I didn't mind. Only way I'd get them unless I wanted to abuse NPCs. What is a few dollars spent on keep a 10+ year old game alive? Classic is hardly pay2win at all and you can get away with not spending any real money so easily. Compared to Renewal it is so free2play. I don't see the harm of adding in a small incentive to get kvm badges. If 10-20 USD is too much to spend, then you should spend your time on craigslist and not on RO lmao.


Edited by Gn1ydnu, 22 September 2015 - 01:01 PM.

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#67 Castello

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 07:25 AM

We have already theorized a method to get the ET coins at a rate much faster than anyone would like

 

on what system? the proposed system or the old one?

sounds like a bluff, and if its not, by all means, share that info so they can prevent it.


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#68 zerowon

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 04:47 PM

Hi am still here
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#69 Xellie

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 01:11 PM

I have 1200 characters waiting to farm the first 50 floors of ET.


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#70 ShinobiEX3

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 01:19 PM

And i thought battle grounds was a thing in classic was i wrong


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#71 zerowon

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:31 PM

Necro this is still part of the game in renewal and private servers might want to put it in game it's only been 4 years. Now
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#72 KingOfJokerz

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 04:32 PM

He's got a point; time is of the essence.


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#73 zerowon

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 10:06 AM

bump can we make this happen


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#74 vnivni

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 01:19 AM

Are KVM eqs obtainable in classic?


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#75 needmorezleep

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 03:46 AM

not quite yet


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