639 replies to this topic

[Xellie]

Well, in the words of someone much wiser than myself

 

"Cheating just allows a bad player to do what a good player can do"

[kingarthur6687]

It's a bit disingenuous to cite Dwarf Fortress as your example considering it's a single player game and therefore nobody really gives a damn if you cheat or use aids in it. You'd be better off citing aimbots and wallhacks for first-person shooters as an example...except those tools aren't sanctioned by their respective games either. I'm sure that, for the people that use them, it makes the game "fun" for them, but it comes at the cost of destroying the competitive aspect of those games for everyone else. It'd also be boring to watch at a tournament, so there's that.

 

I recall CS:GO suffering from a serious hit to its reputation in the professional gaming scene several months ago when some of its so-called professional players were found out to be using aimbots and wallhacks.

[schia]

There should be a no gods, no mvps, no pots woe.  Who remembers a time when it was dishonorable to use pots in pvp?

[Gn1ydnu]

There should be a no gods, no mvps, no pots woe.  Who remembers a time when it was dishonorable to use pots in pvp?

 

Yup. Loki duels were the most fun. 

[squirreI]

HOWEVER. I must correct you about infinite supplies. People who use autopot use less supply as they don't over pot. (it still takes the same number of potions to fill your hp regardless of speed). When there are people like me who will pot even when not taking damage because I'm preempting it, I will use more potions than an autopotter.

 

What about the players who shouldn't be surviving as long as they do?

 

I keep wanting to go emblemless to prove one sided enforcement, did you hear about how valk reported me for pneumaing myself against pulse strike at randgris and I was sent a warning in less than an hour?

 

But apparently it's ok for other people to eske the mvp when it's on our tank, because "they are trying to reflect it". I thought reflecting involved taking damage. GMs deny this tho.

 

If you managed to block a sw or acid bomb (who uses that anymore?) then you're at fault here. I forgot to test whether pneuma blocks pulse strike at <4 cell range but I'm still pretty sure it doesn't.

 

@eskeing mvps while you tank it. Pulse strike, hell's judgement, earthquake are much better damage sources to reflect than regular attacks. Have they posted any rules specifically stating that you can't use the eske skill on someone tanking an mvp? I wouldn't use eske to grief, but if that's my current means of killing something and you show up, I'm not going to stand by and let you kill it. I do believe this issue requires some GM action though.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

This whole argument is retarded. GMs just need to fix this -_- so the front page isn't clogged with QQ anymore.

[darkabe]

I forgot to test whether pneuma blocks pulse strike at <4 cell range but I'm still pretty sure it doesn't.

yup it doesn't

[kingarthur6687]

Nevermind, I derp.

Edited by kingarthur6687, 26 April 2015 - 10:06 PM.

[Rate]

Mvps and minis are ffa, which is why you are getting away with eske... Mini valks don't count as minis though.
gm logic

[Xellie]

What about the players who shouldn't be surviving as long as they do?

 

 

If you managed to block a sw or acid bomb (who uses that anymore?) then you're at fault here. I forgot to test whether pneuma blocks pulse strike at <4 cell range but I'm still pretty sure it doesn't.

 

@eskeing mvps while you tank it. Pulse strike, hell's judgement, earthquake are much better damage sources to reflect than regular attacks. Have they posted any rules specifically stating that you can't use the eske skill on someone tanking an mvp? I wouldn't use eske to grief, but if that's my current means of killing something and you show up, I'm not going to stand by and let you kill it. I do believe this issue requires some GM action though.

 

I personally didn't block a single one. I only pnuema my hp and a path back for the champ to slide to in order to re-zen. The OTHER HP with me did do it, but the other party were icewalling the mvp on us. I'd say that was clear abuse. (let me be clear the other hp received no such warning and I had video to clear my name and prove the other side's abuse)

 

Reflect shouldn't be a viable means of killing it if another party is present as it actually prevents them from setting up to kill. The whole reason icewall was disabled is because it "lacked danger" (I can source heim on an msn chat if you so need, but I'll trust you'll take my word on it at this point); and his argument was that there was "danger" involved in reflect killing. Now, I don't consider the need to die a danger element. It was more about cash shop sales+
 

I know you reflect a lot of mvps, but the concept of it is something that was fixed with renewal (max hp capping reflect) and the shoddy attempts to remove reflect from endless tower indicate this. The concept of earthquake was one that was to force PARTIES of players to show up to mvps, not single people stacking unintended mechanics. (as in, why did they fix it?)

 

The concept of reflecting an mvp as fun as it is also breaks all the points of playing an mmo, it discourages people from getting the top end gear and discourages party play. Both of which should be goals of most mmo players. But if you don't need it, you don't need it and won't do it.

 

I am sure my stance on reflect will come across as an attack on Valkyrie guild as a whole, but I've never liked reflect, the concept of losing to win is highly obnoxious to me. I'll do it if I HAVE to because it's there and sure why not? But I'd be happier if it went byebye.

 

I also taught Valhalla to do it because other groups were doing it and being left behind isn't really ideal. I felt they lacked the skill at handling endless tower to begin with and wanted an easier way to introduce them to the ET mechanics. Now were 100% reflect free and it feels gooooooood! (and I hated it then and was against it before ET, so no hypocrisy comments or crap about blablabla you got your items and don't need to blablabla cause that isn't the case here at all. And even if it was the rest of the server should have their items too, so w/e!)

 

It'd be nice if they disabled CI in ET too, but I'm sure if they do that, it'll be taken personally by "certain people".

 

Also, if they're reflecting pulse strike/eq when they will probably be dead when the mvp dies. The chances of being alive if you're melee reflecting EQ with shield reflect are extremely low as reflecting EQ doesn't negate the damage. (infact if you actually manage to proc CI off earthquake to deal the damage, you are almost guarenteed to DIE at the same time as the mvp!)

Maya is a difference case, but that's still a really low chance of survival. So no it's not logical to me. I screwed around with the magic reflect set (which the stalkers at valk don't use anyway) thus they are using melee reflect of EQ. So no. Just no.

 

Also good luck out damaging our 1.2m fists with that crap. #illogical.

Mvps and minis are ffa, which is why you are getting away with eske... Mini valks don't count as minis though.
gm logic

 

minis aren't ffa, derp
 

Edited by Xellie, 27 April 2015 - 04:17 AM.

[Tribe]

So it's okay to grief mvps cause they are ffa?

[Xellie]

Only if you're bad at the game

[Gn1ydnu]

What makes people good at RO? There is no skill involved, just minimal reaction time and basic knowledge required.

[Myzery]

Having common sense and good judgement.

[Quanta]

What makes people good at RO? There is no skill involved, just minimal reaction time and basic knowledge required.

That just makes the cheating even sillier. It takes a special kind of terrible to cheat in a game that already has such low skill requirements.

[Gn1ydnu]

@ Myz, Common sense is a curse because you have to deal with people that are lacking it

 

@Quanta, Agreed. RO is a really simple and easy game at the core. There is a learning curve about basic mechanics, skills, and counter plays. After that though, it just turns into a chess game of trying to be one step ahead or guessing what the opponent is running/doing ahead of time. This game requires minimal thought process and even reaction times don't need to be good if your running SPP bios ect.

 

I just don't see how one can strive to be "good" when the requirements to be good are set so low due to the restrictions of the game. Cheats don't make players good at all, it makes them play like idiots and make bad positional plays. Well, some cheats allow for bad positional plays... Others let you cast skills from the entrance of the castle to the emp room or allow players to have 4 megs on and perm double hp+immune stat effects , but I suppose those are in a different category of cheats? lol

[iamvrypwrful]

the difficulty is defined by your competition not the game itself

[Xellie]

Yup, who needs reaction speed or micro to dance skills or apm or multitasking ability when you have cheats to do it for you?

 

The game shouldn't be based on an individual's playing ability. That would be silly.

Edited by Xellie, 27 April 2015 - 09:05 AM.

[iamvrypwrful]

it's quite obvious you don't have any reaction time or multitasking ability when you play sinx 

Edited by iamvrypwrful, 27 April 2015 - 09:08 AM.

[Necrohealiac]

[Xellie]

it's quite obvious you don't have any reaction time or multitasking ability when you play sinx 

 

Because clearly a statement about why cheating is making a difference to play required a personal attack.

 

you're right tho, I suck

 

 

Edited by Xellie, 27 April 2015 - 09:25 AM.

[Gn1ydnu]

For WoE there really isn't anything skillful about playing. I can see the actual organizers having to invest time into making a proper setup, but is that skill or just applying simple logic?

 

As for actual fights in "GvG", there is nothing skillful. Make and gear the most effective build for whatever job and simply do it. The only class that takes any amount of skill (and honestly just more reaction) would be champs. Nothing is hard about this game, so I am still not sure what actually makes a good player good. I think Myz is closest though, common sense. I can see how a group of players can be considered "good" because of superior teamwork, but that isn't skillful. That is simply following directions, which is again just common sense.

 

Basically, there is no skill in this game at all. All that there is is basic understanding, reaction time, and following directions. That is it. Game 2ez.

[Xellie]

Perhaps what you are saying is that there is a higher skill level required for non peons.

[Gn1ydnu]

I guess by definition spamming a button for slim whites and another button for acid bombs is "skillful", since it is proficiently applying something learned through experience. I just don't see it as anything note worthy.

 

@Xellie for non peon. I suppose the most skillful thing for "organizers" would be people skills and how to get a horde of people to do a simple and easy task together. Other then that it just requires time (biggest thing with all thing RO related) and knowledge about many things.

[Xellie]

Mmm this coming from someone who can't sw to save his life in pvp. Is that not a skill? You are aware that field awareness is not a farmers conservation organization right?