639 replies to this topic

[Xellie]

I don't see any irony.

 

I only see people pretending to be politicians instead of being honest. I'm just explaining the reality of the situation, not thinking about an unrealistic fantasy. 

 

I actually don't like cheating.
 

[iamvrypwrful]

i never said anything about anyone liking or disliking it 

 

did you read what i said?

Edited by iamvrypwrful, 25 April 2015 - 01:21 PM.

[Tribe]

Reset the server. I'm spending way too much time in hots.

[Xellie]

i never said anything about anyone liking or disliking it 

 

did you read what i said?

 

Yes and it's your opinion and I don't agree.

 

Some of us don't play "just to win" or distribute undetectable cheats via guild forums. It was pretty much you guys who came along with a/p, ndl and stuff making everyone else justify it in a spiral of they cheat so we must cheat.

 

That is why it's ironic, for you to post about how everyone will do what it takes to win when it's really you and your group.

 

not claiming to be completely clean here, since p much the whole server does it, it's very hard for me to persuade people in guild not to. I'll try and I'll tell them no, but I can't stop them 100% of the time if they see others doing it especially.

 

Which is a shame because if everyone just agreed to not do it, or the staff had half a brain about enforcing it, the game would be much more fun and on equal terms. 

 

 

Not everyone thinks or plays like you.

[iamvrypwrful]

i don't know how you are going to blame me for cheating when guilds were cheating before they even knew valhalla was woeing on this server

 

i prefer no cheating as well if it was possible

Edited by iamvrypwrful, 25 April 2015 - 01:30 PM.

[Xellie]

i don't know how you are going to blame me for cheating when guilds were cheating before they even knew valhalla was woeing on this server

 

i prefer no cheating as well if it was possible

 

Well obviously, but I don't think an eye for an eye works. It's feasible to beat cheaters without spreading that poison.

 

note: I can't deny Valhalla considered it/talked about it, but it was just that. Talk and theorycraft. Nobody had the balls to run nodelay on their 10 year old accounts, or risk their items etc. There was always a fear that the other side had GMs on  side and we'd get destroyed for it (left over fears from chaos, which I consider a valid concern, regardless of if it's true or not, they are not wrong to feel that way.)

 

I disbanded guild on old chaos because I'd rather not lead a cheater guild or cheat myself. I'd sooner quit.

Edited by Xellie, 25 April 2015 - 02:17 PM.

[Myzery]

I don't think anyone likes losing.

People for the most part abide by rules to have the sense of competition. When they start losing, they cheat.

Sometimes people cheat to look good/compensate, etc. It doesn't mean all of their friends will cheat.

No one really cheated on Classic until certain people got stomped every week and decided to crank it up a notch.

A lot of things you can't compete effectively against unless you cheat back and unfortunately it is the fault of the GMs for not banning these people.

 

 

[Mischelle]

I don't understand why iamvrypwrfl's point was lost.

 

Rules that aren't enforced are not rules.

 

This weight that rules carry in a venue of entertainment is not the same as the weight that the rule of law carries irl.  For some reason some people seem to equate one situation to the other.

 

Maybe people don't cheat to win, but they cheat because it is more fun?  Maybe some people think it is fun to hammer the potion button, and maybe some people think it's just a pain, and would rather spend their attention watching what is going on rather than stare at their HP bar.

 

As far as cheating goes, if there is no enforcement of prohibitions against certain actions, then anything the game will let you do is fair.  In fact, anything the game will let you do, you should do.  If the people who made the game didn't want the player to be able to do certain things, then the onus is on them to code the game so as to make those actions impossible.  It's their job to make sure the game works the way it is intended to.

 

If a programmer writes flawed code, they can't expect the user to just obey instructions to not use their program in a certain way.  Same as if an electrician fails wiring a switch so that it trips the breaker when used.  It isn't professional to make mistakes like that.  Xellie and company keep making these complaints against botters and cheaters.  Maybe you want to play on an empty server, if all your accused cheaters quit that's almost what you would have left.

 

Autopot doesn't do anything the actual game mechanics doesn't intend a player to be able to do.  Why do you have any complaint for people using it?  If it is because it means players that should normally be not difficult to beat are now extremely hard to beat, then complain about Ripped Cabus and kafra cards.  Increase weight limit was never an intended skill, and the ability to restock from anywere was never an intended function.  But now you can have infinite potions, which means you have infinite HP.

 

As an aside, RO's mechanics regarding HP have ALWAYS been that your maximum HP listed on your stat bar only relates to the maximum damage you can sustain in one hit.  Your true maximum HP is your HP bar PLUS all the healing items that you can carry, and that is because of the healing system RO uses.  Which means classes that have STR and VIT have more HP than classes that get INT and VIT.  But when every class gets +2000 weight, the mechanic is broken, its like giving 70 str for free.  Where's your complaint thread about that?

 

Why are you complaining about the work other people do to make the game more enjoyable for themselves and their friends, when the root of your problem is with the very game itself, Xellie?  The root of all the things that make you frustrated, is one hundred percent a factor of the game's mechanics, period.  If you can't find fault with the mechanics, then you've no justification for any bias against any kind of activity other players may take part in.

[Phil]

"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."
-Tacitus

 

Rules have to be minimal and unconditional as possible to be effective as rules mainly benefit the rulemaker. The more rules a system has, the more chance there exist a loophole/grey area in which it can't be defined and WILL be exploited without anyone knowing. This is also why lawyers/etc make so much money in the states, its just so sad that everything in here is basically "whoever finds the most obscure loophole in the law wins" instead of objectively assessing the situation

 

 

Edited by Phil, 25 April 2015 - 08:42 PM.

[schia]

rules that are not enforced are not rules at all.

 

At the same time though, i'd rather not see everyone going full ham and fill their rosters up with well scripted bots.  As amusing as it would be, it just wouldn't be fun to play against.

[kingarthur6687]

Laws that are not enforced are not laws, either. Just saying, since it was brought up. That's why we have police to enforce the law.

[zerowon]

Am sure that 55year old black man that was running away from a 29year old felt that same way after he was shot and got tazed

[Xellie]

One who cheats because they can get away with it should not put the blame on lack of enforcement.

 

We all know Insur cheated from day 1 Myzery, they cheated on Ymir, they cheated on valk, they cheated on Classic. It was only because they had "certain people" on side that they could get away with this stuff. We all know this.

 

On Ymir we found out very quickly the rules were only enforced in one direction. Yes that is 100% the GMs fault. But we as players could actually do something about it collectively. Either share the goods so that the game is fair, push the GMs to make it official/allowed (so that the one sided enforcement stops), or agree to just not do it.

 

Because as of most WoEs, there is zero reason for my guild to use autopot. It's literally a case of "we don't need it.".

 

My objections with Aaron's statement is that he actually used all this crap against people who didn't use it. For the longest time, most of my guild didn't know what any of this s*** was. He was pretty much at the forefront of spreading this crap around and justifies it, on the expectation that everyone else would do the same. Rather than get it enforced he ran to the cheats too.

 

 

Autopot doesn't do anything the actual game mechanics doesn't intend a player to be able to do.  Why do you have any complaint for people using it?  If it is because it means players that should normally be not difficult to beat are now extremely hard to beat, then complain about Ripped Cabus and kafra cards.  Increase weight limit was never an intended skill, and the ability to restock from anywere was never an intended function.  But now you can have infinite potions, which means you have infinite HP.

 

 

Uhhh, apart from inhuman reaction to taking sudden damage? Surprise damage is the way to kill most players, and if they have automated assistance, then, they are kind of magical.

 

My other complaint is that it isn't freely available, thus it isn't fair for those not connected.

 

 

 

As an aside, RO's mechanics regarding HP have ALWAYS been that your maximum HP listed on your stat bar only relates to the maximum damage you can sustain in one hit.  Your true maximum HP is your HP bar PLUS all the healing items that you can carry, and that is because of the healing system RO uses.  Which means classes that have STR and VIT have more HP than classes that get INT and VIT.  But when every class gets +2000 weight, the mechanic is broken, its like giving 70 str for free.  Where's your complaint thread about that?

 

Anyone can access these mechanics via the game without having to trawl the web to be on equal terms. How is this even related in your mind?

 

Why are you complaining about the work other people do to make the game more enjoyable for themselves and their friends, when the root of your problem is with the very game itself, Xellie?  The root of all the things that make you frustrated, is one hundred percent a factor of the game's mechanics, period.  If you can't find fault with the mechanics, then you've no justification for any bias against any kind of activity other players may take part in.

 

If you hate the game so much, stop bescumbering the forums with your opinion of the mechanics and go play a different one. The root of my frustration is that players have access to third party materials to improve their gameplay over others creating an uneven playing field. I have no issue with the mechanics.

 

 

Laws that are not enforced are not laws, either. Just saying, since it was brought up. That's why we have police to enforce the law.

The REASON we push for enforcement or legalization of these programs is so that everyone is on equal ground, regardless of their programming ability or pserver contacts.

 

I don't think that is asking much. This is also why the server doesn't have new comers. Why start up guilds can't exist etc. you should be playing within the limitations of the game.

 

Oh and just for laughs, look at how they enforce blank emblems (which is a game mechanic and was legal for YEARS) vs how they don't enforce ap/ndl. It's all to do with WHO is complaining.

Edited by Xellie, 26 April 2015 - 01:56 AM.

[schia]

>programming ability

>auto potting

 

u wot m8?

 

It takes little to no effort to learn how to use the stupid auto potters, even the more complicated ones require basic english and the ability to spell properly.

 

You're giving people way to much credit that they don't deserve.

[kingarthur6687]

even the more complicated ones require basic english and the ability to spell properly.

 

You clearly underestimate the fact that the majority of people do not have such skills, much less the average gamer who would lack the integrity to not cheat.

[schia]

You clearly underestimate the fact that the majority of people do not have such skills, much less the average gamer who would lack the integrity to not cheat.

 

You make a compelling argument. I concede to your superior analysis skills.

[Xellie]

>programming ability

>auto potting

 

u wot m8?

 

It takes little to no effort to learn how to use the stupid auto potters, even the more complicated ones require basic english and the ability to spell properly.

 

You're giving people way to much credit that they don't deserve.

 

I'm talking about the people that create the programs.

 

There are plenty of custom made autopotters for iro classic, and the best thing is, with a little knowledge, you can take one from another server and edit it to work on classic.

 

Most people don't know how to do this stuff, no.

Edited by Xellie, 26 April 2015 - 02:09 AM.

[needmorezleep]

 

Oh and just for laughs, look at how they enforce blank emblems (which is a game mechanic and was legal for YEARS) vs how they don't enforce ap/ndl. It's all to do with WHO is complaining.

valhalla now recruiting hardcore kafra spenders on classic

#fight4enforcement

[Xellie]

wonder how much it costs to buy a gm

[schia]

wonder how much it costs to buy a gm

 

a foot long

 

Spoiler

[Xellie]

a foot long

 

Spoiler

 

Apology accepted.

 

I take it you think it's ok for people to program their own autopots and distribute it within their own guild/ friendship circles so they have an advantage over those who don't, right?

 

 

My favourite part about this whole topic is that Oda will read it and be ok with people justifying cheating and then ignore it without saying a word, just like how he was ok with a certain guildleader justifying nodelay in the "nodelay enforcement thread" and didn't say a word or take an action when video was produced of that player using nodelay. (in a thread about enforcing nodelay). All the had to do was say "no its no ok, don't do it again bro"

 

And this is why people think the staff are biased

Edited by Xellie, 26 April 2015 - 02:21 AM.

[needmorezleep]

should just recruit cookie to the dev team in order 2 save classic imo would solve all the cheating problems 

[Quanta]

should just recruit cookie to the dev team in order 2 save classic imo would solve all the cheating problems

He did a great job with that other server. You know, the one that crashed and burned in 4 months.

[Gn1ydnu]

should just recruit cookie to the dev team in order 2 save classic imo would solve all the cheating problems

He failed at all of them. Took minimal effort to bypass all of the Russian coding lmao. Again, there is no stopping it, there is simply increasing the time/effort spent finding ways around it. That is why I think it would be silly for the staff to spend there time creating something that will just take the general public a few min to bypass. Te things that are possible in RO is insaine, what's been brought up so far is barely anything compared to the possibilities.

[Xellie]

Edited by Xellie, 26 April 2015 - 02:51 AM.