57 replies to this topic

[Feuer]

Since I can't get any communication from the Class Discussion thread I decided to go ahead to the next step by presenting theoretical updates before posting a final draft Proposal in that sub-forum section.

 

To start off I'd like to discuss Offense capability.

 

The Artisan offensive tree currently consist of 6 skills.

 

5 Single Target attacks

1 AoE CC [causes no damage by default]

 

To open the damage Discussion I'd like to for now at least jump directly to the hypothetical skills. 

For starters these would hopefully go into the tree as a default option. And you'll notice the theme is generally as follows.

Higher Damage potential then single targets, but longer cool downs. [if Managed correctly they would both possess equal potential just different play style options]

 

Also, I'll keep it to 3 Active skills, and 1-2 Crafted additions, and 2 new Passive options [One being a Stacking Proc].

I'll also explain in detail how I came to these conclusions and my projected outcome was in the spoiler tags below each portion.

 

Sticky Shell:

Damage Type: Physical

Element: None

Skill Power: 155% + 140 [@ Skill level 5 / Before Passives]

Status: Move Speed: -45% + 25

AoE Radius: 8m [Before Passives]

Duration: 5 seconds

Cool down: 12 seconds

 

Spoiler

I came to this conclusion because of a few factors.

The primary thing you'll notice is that it is an AoE. I wanted to generate this as an AoE for 2 prime reasons truthfully. The first being that Cannon/Launchers have always been geared around Skill Casting, and secondly that the Artisan Tree itself presents no additional AoE's. I felt that cutting them off to AoE's that are outdated by 130 levels wasn't exactly fair as the primary role of Cannons is range Demolition / Artillery.

 

I included a modest Move speed down on a short duration for the added effect of slowing down enemy's in both PvM and PvP long enough to at least get 1-2 skills cast after this is used before you're surrounded by enemy's. You'll also notice the larger cool down, so this skill is more of a one time effect in today's PvP environment. 

 

Mortar:

Damage Type: Physical

Element: None

Skill Power: 205% + 220

Note: Using this skill increases your Weapon Range 10m for 15 seconds

Cool cown: 25 seconds

 

Spoiler

This is a pretty unique skill that I actually borrowed from a theoretical class I was tinkering with. However, it solved an issue I have currently with Cannon Users, specifically the Artisan.

Currently, Cannon Bourges are performing perfectly with their limited range. That same can't really be said for Artisans. This is directly related to a few factors that I feel have been long over looked.

 

Firstly, Cannon's used to be the longest range weapon in-game. After the skill update however they became one of the middle/shorter ranged ones.

I would Classify range as such personally.

Long Range:

Bow, Gun, Mage.

Short Range:

xBow, Wand, Cannon.

Now, Bourges function fine because when this change of position occurred to range, they were compensated with a Buff that is equal to a Booster. Def/M Def boosters are 30%. This is exactly the same as the buff "Dual Layer" however it can stack with normal buffs. Artisan's however were not given a Range compensation to Cannons or Defenses. They actually weren't capable of using Cannons at all prior to the skill update. I think because of them gaining that ability to use them, the Range factor was never considered for survival purposes in their instance because it wasn't there to already consider. 

So as you can see, that over sight was missed and I feel should be corrected. However, increasing Range even on a temporary basis won't fix the entire issue which I will finish covering in the Defenive Passive later on.

 

Acidic Shell Shot:

Damage Type: Magical

Element: Poison

Skill Power: 165% + 170

Status: Poison 250

Duration: 5 seconds

AoE Radius: 10m

Cool down: 25 seconds

 

Spoiler

This would be the final skill in the Cannon themed 'skill lane' for Artisans.

 

I gave this a few tweaks to customize it to the Artisan.

Right off the bat, it's a magic damage type. I did this because of a 'compensation' change I'll list below to help balance out this proposal. However, if you skip to that section you'll find out why and I'm sure it'll make sense.

Second, You'll probly notice that it adds Poison in a pretty acceptable AoE Radius. I chose that radius because of a comparison to the Cannon Bourge tree itself.

Cannon Bourg's get 3 AoE's in their final tree. I chose to propose 2 Active ones themed to cannon and nice perk to Gun in the 'compensation' area. However noting this I intentionally made it weaker on impact and slightly stronger on duration. However I made sure it has the same down-time as the Bourg's final AoE to ensure that the trade off of instant damage vs DoT remains equal.

 

Passive Section:

 

Skill Name: Passive Aggressive;

" You put on an appearance of being less threatening, reducing your likelihood of being targeted by enemy Monsters"

An issue I've been encountering in PvM is Aggro. I'm not sure why, but Cannons can pull aggro off a Knight's Sacri [especially obvious in Cave of Ulverik]. I think a PvM Passive [optional] that reduces your chance to pull aggro would be helpful. 

 

Skill Name: Art of Artillery;

" Having gained advanced insight on your target from afar, your attack power and move speed are increased with each Skill Cast at a 40% chance. [ 5% Attack Power + 60 Move Speed per stack, Max 5 Stacks]"

I figured this would be an appropriate offensive / survival stack. While not directly 'Defensive' to survive while in combat. I felt that this skill in combination with the hypothetical skill "Mortar" should provide enough mobility + range to keep you at a distance just long enough to be competitive in both PvM and PvP. 

 

Crafted section:

 

Advanced Sub-item Crafting:

Crate of "Mini motorized mine" [Provides 10 robots] -edit: these can only be summoned 1 at a time, with an 8 second summon cooldown, the crafting 1 crate provides 10 bots to be accomodating for the Artisan to craft them and use them regularly without straining their income of materials too much. The amount you can have summoned would be restricted by your summon gauge maximum-

Craft a mini mine that can walk to your current target and detonate an explosion in the local area. Causes medium damage.

Note: Requires Class: Artisan

Type: Summon

Details: 40 Gauge required to consume.

Detonation's Skill Power: 120% + 100

Detonation's Area of Effect: 5m [affected by Cannon Tree's AoE Radius Passive]

Cooldown: 8 seconds

 

Material Crafting list:

Steam Viper x2

Rare Metal x10

Wood Material: x20

Gunpowder Packet: x50

 

Advanced Sub-Item Crafting:

Craft "Gadget of Protection" x1

Craft a gadget that only an Artisan can operate properly that provides a temporary 30% damage protection for a short duration

Note: Requires Class: Artisan

Details:

30% Damage Reduction for 15 seconds

Consumption Cool Down: 35 seconds

 

Material Crafting list:

Jilsian x1

Rare Metal x1

Iron Thread x5

 

Explanation of these two Crafted consumables.

First off you'll notice the AoE Summon.

I chose this for a few reasons. First off, you'll notice I didn't note it as locked to the Cannon Weapon. This is intentional in my mind because Gun Artisans should have a second AoE option.

Normally, I'd recommend you use the Summons "Terror/Dread Knight or Fallen" as those summons AoE. However, they're so random, infrequent and uncontrollable that you can't rely on them actually AoEing when you need it the most. This route give Both sub-classes the option for a consumable AoE summon that is reliable, while giving the Gun tree a second AoE in general.

 

Next, we have the 'Defensive' buff I was going for.

I chose this as a consumable and not a skill for specific reasons. I don't want to alienate the crafting Artisans from good combat. Restricting their ability to craft a few different groups would be the result if too much SP had to be spared to get these new skills. 

About the balance. As with any hypothetical situation, the figures can be changed. However, I placed this consumables amount accurately based on the difference in damage Bourges take, in direct comparison to Artisans receiving the same attack using the same armor. It was roughly 30% more on the Artisan then Bourge [when the Bourge used it's 'Dual Layer' buff. However, I didn't want it to be better, so I cut the duration in half, and placed a 20 second down-time in between when the effect falls off and can be used again. 

 

Further Note's Section.

I feel that giving this 'Cannon Themed' Lane should come with the restriction that Poison, Acid and Magic shots be turned back into 'Gun' only skills. While these new skills all go in as Cannon only.

[Sorry, this should have been more specific. The 3 new Active Cast [damage] skills Cannon Only. The Crafted + Passives would work the same for Gun + Cannon.]

 

Compensation Section:

I noted that I would explain the Magic Type AoE. Losing the Magic Shot with an impressively low CD warranted at least one magic attack in the tree. 

I also mentioned the 'Gun Perk' when explaining the AoE's for Cannon Artisans. That perk was the crafted AoE's. 

 

Closing statements for consideration.

If I did this correctly, and it comes out the way I hope it does, then Artisans of both Gun and Launcher types should reach a competitive place in the game. However, I also tried to strive for the goal that they're not as capable as Bourge's in terms of AoE output or Defenses.

 

Finally. We've all heard the rumor about Artisans getting support skills. This has been information for a long time and is reliant on other features being implemented before it can happen. It's been over a year since the skill update and the Artisans have steadily fell behind all other classes in Value, Play-ability and Competitiveness. I don't think that it's fair or even acceptable to dismiss a class under the guise that 'they'll eventually get their update' for over a year. Even if that update occurs, I'd rather something be put in place temporarily until it happens then continue to see the class and community who enjoys them die out. It's a small intervention, but a needed on and well deserved one for the patience the Artisans have exhibited. 

 

Looking forward to the feedback before I finalize the idea's presented here on the official proposal I'll make. 

 

Edited by Feuer, 22 May 2015 - 08:52 AM.

[DoubleRose]

A couple things:

 

I don't think there's a need for the mine summons to be crafted. I'd rather see a smaller summon gauge cost and some sort of ammo system with a cooldown that only occurs while in combat or while crafting. In their current state the mines will end up being ignored for Judgement Knight. This is now a large arsenal of summons, so it may help if they had a better way to increase their summon gauge. The Gadget of Protection is not needed. First of all, the number is gives is way to high and makes me question why anyone would play crossbow scout if that skill exists. Also, artisan is not a defensive class and there's no reason to make them have no tradeoffs.

 

Sticky Shell is very high utility which fits what the devs are planning to do later. This would be a good skill to add. It's interesting in that it gives a large % slow while most other slows give a flow slow with a small %.

 

I would like it if their attack speed passive was increased by 5%, but that wasn't mentioned. The new skills for gun bourgs made them attack a lot faster than current artisans.

 

They may not need Art of Artillery because the canoneer passive serves that purpose. I don’t think it makes sense for characters with a big launcher to run fast. The ap for launchers is a bit lacking right now thanks to the bourg ap passive being 30% while it is only 20% for artisans, so I like the ap component of the skill.

 

I haven't found magic shot to ever be useful. Between the poison damage and the 35% defense penetration there isn't a large need for a magic attack.  A big reason I have a battle artisan is because I wanted a launcher user who could do poison damage and ignore armor.

[Feuer]

I'll take those points into consideration. 

[Ahya]

Since I can't get any communication from the Class Discussion thread I decided to go ahead to the next step by presenting theoretical updates before posting a final draft Proposal in that sub-forum section.

 

To start off I'd like to discuss Offense capability.

 

The Artisan offensive tree currently consist of 6 skills.

 

5 Single Target attacks

1 AoE CC [causes no damage by default]

 

To open the damage Discussion I'd like to for now at least jump directly to the hypothetical skills. 

For starters these would hopefully go into the tree as a default option. And you'll notice the theme is generally as follows.

Higher Damage potential then single targets, but longer cool downs. [if Managed correctly they would both possess equal potential just different play style options]

 

Also, I'll keep it to 3 Active skills, and 1-2 Crafted additions, and 2 new Passive options [One being a Stacking Proc].

I'll also explain in detail how I came to these conclusions and my projected outcome was in the spoiler tags below each portion.

 

Sticky Shell:

Damage Type: Physical

Element: None

Skill Power: 155% + 140 [@ Skill level 5 / Before Passives]

Status: Move Speed: -45% + 25

AoE Radius: 8m [Before Passives]

Duration: 5 seconds

Cool down: 12 seconds

 

Spoiler

I came to this conclusion because of a few factors.

The primary thing you'll notice is that it is an AoE. I wanted to generate this as an AoE for 2 prime reasons truthfully. The first being that Cannon/Launchers have always been geared around Skill Casting, and secondly that the Artisan Tree itself presents no additional AoE's. I felt that cutting them off to AoE's that are outdated by 130 levels wasn't exactly fair as the primary role of Cannons is range Demolition / Artillery.

 

I included a modest Move speed down on a short duration for the added effect of slowing down enemy's in both PvM and PvP long enough to at least get 1-2 skills cast after this is used before you're surrounded by enemy's. You'll also notice the larger cool down, so this skill is more of a one time effect in today's PvP environment. 

 

Mortar:

Damage Type: Physical

Element: None

Skill Power: 205% + 220

Note: Using this skill increases your Weapon Range 10m for 15 seconds

Cool cown: 25 seconds

 

Spoiler

This is a pretty unique skill that I actually borrowed from a theoretical class I was tinkering with. However, it solved an issue I have currently with Cannon Users, specifically the Artisan.

Currently, Cannon Bourges are performing perfectly with their limited range. That same can't really be said for Artisans. This is directly related to a few factors that I feel have been long over looked.

 

Firstly, Cannon's used to be the longest range weapon in-game. After the skill update however they became one of the middle/shorter ranged ones.

I would Classify range as such personally.

Long Range:

Bow, Gun, Mage.

Short Range:

xBow, Wand, Cannon.

Now, Bourges function fine because when this change of position occurred to range, they were compensated with a Buff that is equal to a Booster. Def/M Def boosters are 30%. This is exactly the same as the buff "Dual Layer" however it can stack with normal buffs. Artisan's however were not given a Range compensation to Cannons or Defenses. They actually weren't capable of using Cannons at all prior to the skill update. I think because of them gaining that ability to use them, the Range factor was never considered for survival purposes in their instance because it wasn't there to already consider. 

So as you can see, that over sight was missed and I feel should be corrected. However, increasing Range even on a temporary basis won't fix the entire issue which I will finish covering in the Defenive Passive later on.

 

Acidic Shell Shot:

Damage Type: Magical

Element: Poison

Skill Power: 165% + 170

Status: Poison 250

Duration: 5 seconds

AoE Radius: 10m

Cool down: 25 seconds

 

Spoiler

This would be the final skill in the Cannon themed 'skill lane' for Artisans.

 

I gave this a few tweaks to customize it to the Artisan.

Right off the bat, it's a magic damage type. I did this because of a 'compensation' change I'll list below to help balance out this proposal. However, if you skip to that section you'll find out why and I'm sure it'll make sense.

Second, You'll probly notice that it adds Poison in a pretty acceptable AoE Radius. I chose that radius because of a comparison to the Cannon Bourge tree itself.

Cannon Bourg's get 3 AoE's in their final tree. I chose to propose 2 Active ones themed to cannon and nice perk to Gun in the 'compensation' area. However noting this I intentionally made it weaker on impact and slightly stronger on duration. However I made sure it has the same down-time as the Bourg's final AoE to ensure that the trade off of instant damage vs DoT remains equal.

 

Passive Section:

 

Skill Name: Passive Aggressive;

" You put on an appearance of being less threatening, reducing your likelihood of being targeted by enemy Monsters"

An issue I've been encountering in PvM is Aggro. I'm not sure why, but Cannons can pull aggro off a Knight's Sacri [especially obvious in Cave of Ulverik]. I think a PvM Passive [optional] that reduces your chance to pull aggro would be helpful. 

 

Skill Name: Art of Artillery;

" Having gained advanced insight on your target from afar, your attack power and move speed are increased with each Skill Cast at a 40% chance. [ 5% Attack Power + 60 Move Speed per stack, Max 5 Stacks]"

I figured this would be an appropriate offensive / survival stack. While not directly 'Defensive' to survive while in combat. I felt that this skill in combination with the hypothetical skill "Mortar" should provide enough mobility + range to keep you at a distance just long enough to be competitive in both PvM and PvP. 

 

Crafted section:

 

Advanced Sub-item Crafting:

Crate of "Mini motorized mine" [Provides 10 robots]

Craft a mini mine that can walk to your current target and detonate an explosion in the local area. Causes medium damage.

Note: Requires Class: Artisan

Type: Summon

Details: 40 Gauge required to consume.

Detonation's Skill Power: 120% + 100

Detonation's Area of Effect: 5m [affected by Cannon Tree's AoE Radius Passive]

Cooldown: 8 seconds

 

Material Crafting list:

Steam Viper x2

Rare Metal x10

Wood Material: x20

Gunpowder Packet: x50

 

Advanced Sub-Item Crafting:

Craft "Gadget of Protection" x1

Craft a gadget that only an Artisan can operate properly that provides a temporary 30% damage protection for a short duration

Note: Requires Class: Artisan

Details:

30% Damage Reduction for 15 seconds

Consumption Cool Down: 35 seconds

 

Material Crafting list:

Jilsian x1

Rare Metal x1

Iron Thread x5

 

Explanation of these two Crafted consumables.

First off you'll notice the AoE Summon.

I chose this for a few reasons. First off, you'll notice I didn't note it as locked to the Cannon Weapon. This is intentional in my mind because Gun Artisans should have a second AoE option.

Normally, I'd recommend you use the Summons "Terror/Dread Knight or Fallen" as those summons AoE. However, they're so random, infrequent and uncontrollable that you can't rely on them actually AoEing when you need it the most. This route give Both sub-classes the option for a consumable AoE summon that is reliable, while giving the Gun tree a second AoE in general.

 

Next, we have the 'Defensive' buff I was going for.

I chose this as a consumable and not a skill for specific reasons. I don't want to alienate the crafting Artisans from good combat. Restricting their ability to craft a few different groups would be the result if too much SP had to be spared to get these new skills. 

About the balance. As with any hypothetical situation, the figures can be changed. However, I placed this consumables amount accurately based on the difference in damage Bourges take, in direct comparison to Artisans receiving the same attack using the same armor. It was roughly 30% more on the Artisan then Bourge [when the Bourge used it's 'Dual Layer' buff. However, I didn't want it to be better, so I cut the duration in half, and placed a 20 second down-time in between when the effect falls off and can be used again. 

 

Further Note's Section.

I feel that giving this 'Cannon Themed' Lane should come with the restriction that Poison, Acid and Magic shots be turned back into 'Gun' only skills. While these new skills all go in as Cannon only.

[Sorry, this should have been more specific. The 3 new Active Cast [damage] skills Cannon Only. The Crafted + Passives would work the same for Gun + Cannon.]

 

Compensation Section:

I noted that I would explain the Magic Type AoE. Losing the Magic Shot with an impressively low CD warranted at least one magic attack in the tree. 

I also mentioned the 'Gun Perk' when explaining the AoE's for Cannon Artisans. That perk was the crafted AoE's. 

 

Closing statements for consideration.

If I did this correctly, and it comes out the way I hope it does, then Artisans of both Gun and Launcher types should reach a competitive place in the game. However, I also tried to strive for the goal that they're not as capable as Bourge's in terms of AoE output or Defenses.

 

Finally. We've all heard the rumor about Artisans getting support skills. This has been information for a long time and is reliant on other features being implemented before it can happen. It's been over a year since the skill update and the Artisans have steadily fell behind all other classes in Value, Play-ability and Competitiveness. I don't think that it's fair or even acceptable to dismiss a class under the guise that 'they'll eventually get their update' for over a year. Even if that update occurs, I'd rather something be put in place temporarily until it happens then continue to see the class and community who enjoys them die out. It's a small intervention, but a needed on and well deserved one for the patience the Artisans have exhibited. 

 

Looking forward to the feedback before I finalize the idea's presented here on the official proposal I'll make. 

 

I'd like to ask whether the -mspd of Sticky Shell includes the mspd granted by buffs? Without such inclusion, the potential utility of the skill will be greatly diminished.

 

I like this Mortar, probably nothing I could come up with to improve the current idea of it.

 

As for Acidic Shell. I think it should be buffed a teeny bit more. For some reason I find it unfair that the potential damage of an instant damage and a DoT is the same; given that the DoT risks being purified, I think it should be given a little boost. Other than that, +1.

 

While I have nothing much to say about Passive Aggressive, I shall once more pose a question. Art of Artillery is at 40% chance to proc, but is that at level 1 or level 5?

 

I think Mini Motorized Mine is very good actually. However, will the 40 summon gauge required to consume hinder the Artisan from summoning a Judgement Knight at the same time? I agree with DoubleRose, the mines might be ignored for Judgement Knight. To increase their summon gauge is a big help, and with that summon gauge, they can spawn a Judgement Knight and then probably either a weaker summon or the mines. They shouldn't be able to spawn two Judgement Knights though. (I'm not sure if I understood what you meant, DoubleRose )

 

I like the idea of the Gadget of Protection. I see Artisans before as food when they get stunned. Other classes always had a way of dealing with being chased alone by me (mage), as I've seen. Artisans however, are too easy to slaughter and they haven't an ounce of defensive mechanism to try to survive and escape when the first blood (if it was stun) has been drawn by their enemy.

 

Artisans indeed should reach a competitive level ingame. The class indeed has fallen behind the other classes, and I too think it's incredibly unfair to put off their development for such a loooooong period of time. We can start with what was proposed, and then when feedback from the players about the gameplay changes arrive, then the DEVs ought to do necessary adjustments.

 

Leonis, Genesis, please take a careful look at the proposal and give proper and due consideration to it, considering that Artisans have truly been neglected. I am requesting (if "expecting" and "hoping" won't do it) that you put forward your honest thoughts as to the proposal, and spill your "ideas" about the future of the class should you discard these suggestions, just so "their update will come soon" won't be but a facade for the players anymore.

[Feuer]

- I'll answer questions once more have accumulated- 

[iMatt]

These days, when you start posting essays >.<

[WorldDestroyerxx]

What I noticed that the active skills are cannon based. Mortar, sticky shell and acidic shot are good for cannon arti but i think its better to have a firm difference between a cannon arti and a cannon borg. Like hey Cannon borgs have this and cannon artis have this. Like giving people reason to believe cannon arti has its own perks than cannon borg. If you have time you can also suggest new skills for gun too because I think you have good ideas.

 

For the skills passive aggressive and art of artillery

 

I think the passive aggressive skill doesnt match an artisan although it will help greatly in pvm. I just cant see an artisan doing that. Also in the art of artillery. Ap yes, but movespeed, I think thats left for scouts raiders. Maybe invest on ap/crit or ap/enchant damage. Enchant damage is only a small amount. By the word "artillery" i think it suits more having firepower.

 

Crafted mine.

-while it is unreliable and consumes a summon gauage it summons 10. Does this 10 have 120 percent skill power each? So if it detonates will that stack and is possible to do 1200 percent skill power? If that's the case its overpowered

 

Gadget of protection

-best thing there is. I totally agree that there is somethin that helps an artisan in survival. Its like I choose artisan because it has decent dps and better survival than borgs. Gives people thought on what to choose be it borg or artisan because each has it's own perks because right now most gun users opt for borgs only as there is nothing appealing in the artisan department

 

[zonyzony]

This is a battle arti thread so I'll comment on this. Theres some skills that I think are so underpowered on them

 

Marksmanshot- this skill has a long animation and low skill power. Thing is it is only dodge down 5 percent +40. And i think its like 2 or 3 charm for +1 dodge down..

For me being the dealer class they should get a better debuff of dodge. Spear champs and other classes get better dodge down than this

 

Sniping- an even longer animation time with weak skill power. It guarantees a crit at what expense. Range is not so awesome either

 

As for the cannon skills- Animation time. Even though you could do good damage on aoe, the animation time sucks and sometimes get stuck... You are already dead even before you could release your skill

Edited by zonyzony, 22 May 2015 - 08:11 AM.

[Feuer]

I'd like to ask whether the -mspd of Sticky Shell includes the mspd granted by buffs? Without such inclusion, the potential utility of the skill will be greatly diminished.

 

I like this Mortar, probably nothing I could come up with to improve the current idea of it.

 

As for Acidic Shell. I think it should be buffed a teeny bit more. For some reason I find it unfair that the potential damage of an instant damage and a DoT is the same; given that the DoT risks being purified, I think it should be given a little boost. Other than that, +1.

 

While I have nothing much to say about Passive Aggressive, I shall once more pose a question. Art of Artillery is at 40% chance to proc, but is that at level 1 or level 5?

 

I think Mini Motorized Mine is very good actually. However, will the 40 summon gauge required to consume hinder the Artisan from summoning a Judgement Knight at the same time? I agree with DoubleRose, the mines might be ignored for Judgement Knight. To increase their summon gauge is a big help, and with that summon gauge, they can spawn a Judgement Knight and then probably either a weaker summon or the mines. They shouldn't be able to spawn two Judgement Knights though. (I'm not sure if I understood what you meant, DoubleRose )

 

I like the idea of the Gadget of Protection. I see Artisans before as food when they get stunned. Other classes always had a way of dealing with being chased alone by me (mage), as I've seen. Artisans however, are too easy to slaughter and they haven't an ounce of defensive mechanism to try to survive and escape when the first blood (if it was stun) has been drawn by their enemy.

 

Artisans indeed should reach a competitive level ingame. The class indeed has fallen behind the other classes, and I too think it's incredibly unfair to put off their development for such a loooooong period of time. We can start with what was proposed, and then when feedback from the players about the gameplay changes arrive, then the DEVs ought to do necessary adjustments.

 

Leonis, Genesis, please take a careful look at the proposal and give proper and due consideration to it, considering that Artisans have truly been neglected. I am requesting (if "expecting" and "hoping" won't do it) that you put forward your honest thoughts as to the proposal, and spill your "ideas" about the future of the class should you discard these suggestions, just so "their update will come soon" won't be but a facade for the players anymore.

 

Acidic Shell:

I'd actually reserved this weaker on purpose. Later on if these were adopted to the class, I'd continue by adding Unique Skills. Acidic would be a prime candidate for a unique PvM/PvP option along with 'Sticky Shell'. For now even though I know it's slightly under-powered, I'm ok with the figures by comparison. Have to get through these first few hurtles first. 

 

Sticky Shell:

It would be applied the same as any other move-speed status down. It's still quite a bit stronger then move classes have at their disposal, yet it doesn't infringe on the Ice Mage's forte of having supreme move speed controlling status'.

 

The summon gauge I calculated to be heavy enough that you do indeed have to pick between the several options. These mini mines behavior I'd imagined would be as follows.

Summon > engage target > mine crawls to target > detonates itself causing AoE damage and destroying itself [like a trap].

This would make them an "on command" type summon, almost like a crafted gadget designed for a specific purpose.

 

 

 

What I noticed that the active skills are cannon based. Mortar, sticky shell and acidic shot are good for cannon arti but i think its better to have a firm difference between a cannon arti and a cannon borg. Like hey Cannon borgs have this and cannon artis have this. Like giving people reason to believe cannon arti has its own perks than cannon borg. If you have time you can also suggest new skills for gun too because I think you have good ideas.

 

For the skills passive aggressive and art of artillery

 

I think the passive aggressive skill doesnt match an artisan although it will help greatly in pvm. I just cant see an artisan doing that. Also in the art of artillery. Ap yes, but movespeed, I think thats left for scouts raiders. Maybe invest on ap/crit or ap/enchant damage. Enchant damage is only a small amount. By the word "artillery" i think it suits more having firepower.

 

Crafted mine.

-while it is unreliable and consumes a summon gauage it summons 10. Does this 10 have 120 percent skill power each? So if it detonates will that stack and is possible to do 1200 percent skill power? If that's the case its overpowered

 

Gadget of protection

-best thing there is. I totally agree that there is somethin that helps an artisan in survival. Its like I choose artisan because it has decent dps and better survival than borgs. Gives people thought on what to choose be it borg or artisan because each has it's own perks because right now most gun users opt for borgs only as there is nothing appealing in the artisan department

 

I understand making a difference between the two. That being said, I wanted the "Cannon theme" blended into the Artisans already existent play-style. Artisans currently are known for being fast, semi-hard hitting, and to use Poisons very often. I feel the theme of the Actives are quite nice and different enough from Bourgs. The 'Mortar' skill almost defines the Artisan from the Bourge. As you have to tactically use it, then your follow ups while hopefully gaining enough of the movespeed stacks to disengage. Potentially scoring Kills or KO's in the process. I see the bourgs are more of a 'Bunker' style Cannon. They ramp up their Power and cast a Def/M.Def skill, digging themselves in for the fight. While the Artisan would be more focused on assaulting then running instead of staying.

 

I probably should have explained the theory behind 'Passive Aggressive'. When you think about the Artisan, they're the back-end damage support role. They already are well known for trying to always maintain a ranged advantage and sending in mercenary's to be the frontal assault. I felt that a class who employs Mercenary's as a 'distraction' would be very keen on not drawing too much attention to itself, especially knowing they are very soft if they're gotten a hold of. At least that was my concept I built off it.

 

I'd rather like to keep the Art of Artillery bonus' as they are in theory for now. Simply because if you make it all out offensive, it lessens survival utility for the class. Also, considering it would be for both Guns and Cannons, if it was AP/Enhance or some other double damage combo, it could very well push Guns too far offensively. The guns do already have access to the 100% aspeed stack, giving them AP and Enhance with their already impressive pierce could ruin the balance.

 

I also edited the Mines to be more specific in their details for you in the initial post.

 

This is a battle arti thread so I'll comment on this. Theres some skills that I think are so underpowered on them

 

Marksmanshot- this skill has a long animation and low skill power. Thing is it is only dodge down 5 percent +40. And i think its like 2 or 3 charm for +1 dodge down..

For me being the dealer class they should get a better debuff of dodge. Spear champs and other classes get better dodge down than this

 

Sniping- an even longer animation time with weak skill power. It guarantees a crit at what expense. Range is not so awesome either

 

As for the cannon skills- Animation time. Even though you could do good damage on aoe, the animation time sucks and sometimes get stuck... You are already dead even before you could release your skill

 

Sorry Zony, I did forget to include your request's to the Gun first tree skills.

 

I agree with Marksman's Shot. It should have a higher benefit then it does. Especially since Marksmen's Shot is the only dodge down Any dealer has access to.

The animation should be 1/2 what it is, and I feel it should be a stack shot. 5% + 20 Dodge Down applied to enemy [like the Scouts arrows are] Maximum 5 Stacks. Lasts say 15 seconds for now?

 

Sniping should be bumped slightly. Maybe ignoring all Def would work in conjunction with the Crit Guarantee?

 

I'm currently OK with the first tree's cast speed. If the new theoretical skills were added, I'd request them to be faster casting as they are slightly weaker in damage. 

 

 

Hopefully that addresses everything so far. You can ask more questions, give more feedback etc and I'll get to them in due time.

[Ahya]

Sorry Zony, I did forget to include your request's to the Gun first tree skills.

 

I agree with Marksman's Shot. It should have a higher benefit then it does. Especially since Marksmen's Shot is the only dodge down Any dealer has access to.

The animation should be 1/2 what it is, and I feel it should be a stack shot. 5% + 20 Dodge Down applied to enemy [like the Scouts arrows are] Maximum 5 Stacks. Lasts say 15 seconds for now?

 

Sniping should be bumped slightly. Maybe ignoring all Def would work in conjunction with the Crit Guarantee?

 

I'm currently OK with the first tree's cast speed. If the new theoretical skills were added, I'd request them to be faster casting as they are slightly weaker in damage.

 

The concept of sniping indeed corresponds to ignoring all def + guaranteeing a crit hit. However, as with real life snipers, sniping gives the enemy a sort of "alert" status. Thus, in PvP, using Sniping would be nice to have the target automatically target the attacker once hit, or if the target dies, the Artisan, having "accomplished" the objective of actually sniping by delivering a killing blow, would be given a boost to MSPD (say, 200-400) for a chance to escape before being caught.

Edited by Ahya, 22 May 2015 - 10:19 PM.

[Feuer]

Lost the response to this Ahya I'll retype it.

 

Having the 'auto target' the dealer from using Sniping is easily done by simply adding a 'taunt' mechanic to Sniping, however think of the PvM ramifications. You'd almost never want to use Sniping in a Boss combat scenario because it would pull the boss off the Knight and could cause some problems, but it is possible.

 

The Proc'd move speed on a killing blow should be possible. But I wouldn't do both effects of 100% Def pierce [on sniping itself] guaranteed critical, AND a proc. I'd go for the Critical and Pierce or Critical and Proc. 

[Ahya]

Sorry I was quite vague there. What I meant was for a possible PvP version of the skill. I think it's a decent trade for two SP to get the MSPD proc on a killing blow, but risking an "auto target" if it wasn't a killing blow. Since some PvP skills don't have PvM versions and the same goes the other way around, I don't think there's a need to make a PvM version. Perhaps the guaranteed crit should be applied to both normal and PvP versions.

 

However, I was thinking. I thought the damage of Sniping, even with the guarantee crit, wasn't enough? Maybe a 50% damage pierce would help it's offensive power (in the normal version), and then you can increase your chances of survivability in case you didn't do a killing blow by taking the PvP version and adding the MSPD proc?

[Feuer]

Hmmm.

 

I kinda want to get off this skill itself and discuss in general as a whole, but I'll entertain the thought once more.

 

'Sniping' [Normal]

Guaranteed Critical hit, 100% Defense Ignored.

 

'Sniping' [PvM]

Guaranteed Critical hit, 100% Defense Ignored, PvM Offense increased 15% for 10 seconds.

 

'Sniping' [PvP]

Guaranteed Critical hit, 100% defense Ignored, Proc 400mspeed for 7 seconds. [Applies 'Taunt']

 

 

[irresistablechic]

Isnt it better for artisans to have dodge rather than movespeed. Since dex is also a stat of artisans since it also adds damage to them. Like artillery strike. Its like the same with the cannon bourg getting movespeed, I know that dodge artisans are a thing of the past but maybe having a proc of dodge could make the artisan more dynamic? Offering more builds so it can be appealing again? Sniping or artillery strike maybe put dodge on it IMO

 

[Feuer]

This forum instability it driving me insane.

 

Second time typing this.

 

Dodge is more of a tanking/defensive statistic, while move speed is a range/kite statistic. 

If it was made to AP / Dodge, then it would only be 50% effective for Cannons while 100% effective for Guns. and I'm not about to play favorites personally. 

 

As an AP / Move speed stack it'd benefit both play styles nicely, as Artisans really should not be sticking themselves in the direct melee range of close quarter combatants. 

That being said, I will still take it into consideration. Every opinion matters when altering a class that many play. [or at least used to play]

 

I'll provide a current list of common defensive statistics both Gun and Cannon Artisans share.

 

Max HP

HP Recovery

Defense

Magic Defense

Critical

Move speed

-Damage Reduction?-

 

It's funny, the only statistic they don't share from a base stat + skill build is Dodge. 

[Feuer]

So I'm not surprised this thread already died. It's actually a sign of how bad the artisan status is atm.

 

The fact that there is so little interest in the class represents just how much of the community gave up on the Artisan. This should be taken as a sign from the community to the staff that something is actually wrong. 

[angeltje]

i would love to have my arti being useful to more then just con crafter. But atm she isnt really that useful for more then that.

[Feuer]

So why not voice your opinion on what's wrong, or give your own insights on what you feel could make them better or what you think about the already proposed changes. 

[KatsuraKujo]

I have one (even if i don't play bullet types but meh, worth a shot)

I think that gunners lack aoe as they only have literally 1 aoe from the dealer tree. That even is pretty useless kind of aoe. Maybe add 1 or 2 more aoes.

 

One of it i just thought of is

Bullet Rain (pls suggest skill power and what not for this, i'm not sure)

Its pretty much the same as the black cloud aoe for knight or poison arrow shower, minus the poison part.

 

Acid rain (optional, cuz meh)

Something like poison arrow shower as well but this time it looks like the arti is causing a cloud of green acid and it rains down on enemies. Of course giving the fact they have to MAKE the acid rain, the cooldown as well as animation will last longer.

 

Pls comment =p

 

Note: this is just a fun thought, i never actually think properly before typing this. Randomly throwing out ideas as i can.

I know guns are meant to be more single target, this is just what i think would be cool to add

Edited by KatsuraKujo, 26 May 2015 - 11:55 PM.

[Feuer]

Already added AoE to Guns in the first proposal Miki.  

[KatsuraKujo]

oh, i didn't see :v

Still its just a fun thought. Well i'll just keep reading. Nice idea though feuer 

[angeltje]

So why not voice your opinion on what's wrong, or give your own insights on what you feel could make them better or what you think about the already proposed changes.

Cuz my english isnt good enough to explain myself. So i dont bother to interfear
Just wanted to say that i like ur ideas.

Edited by angeltje, 27 May 2015 - 12:09 AM.

[Feuer]

If you wish to show support for the idea, a simple +1 and "I like this, you have my support" would suffice. 

[pdfisher]

Feuer, I am trying to catch up on all this, so I'm reading kind of fast. I may have missed this, but will those skills you first mentioned be restricted to a certain weapon type?

[zonyzony]

The aoes skils are, but the others can be used by gun and cannon