57 replies to this topic

[Cortiz]

Very nice thoughts and well explained feuer keep up te good work!

+1

[Feuer]

If it has 'Shell" in the name, I'd intended it for Cannons, Mortar would be for both classes requiring nothing except 100+ and Artisan class. 

The crafted items would all obviously be for both types. 

[pdfisher]

Thanks for the clarification! I say this is an interesting concept. Very well thought out.

[asuboy]

wew. i want to see artisans with magic tool or shield . imagine . an artisan with one hand gun and holding a tool or shield . i think wouold be awesome . and more choices on builds to play with . maybe dex gives block rate like fs clerics maybe a one hand launcher as well

[Krizalis]

wew. i want to see artisans with magic tool or shield . imagine . an artisan with one hand gun and holding a tool or shield . i think wouold be awesome . and more choices on builds to play with . maybe dex gives block rate like fs clerics maybe a one hand launcher as well

what ever you are smoking... it must be good :x

[Feuer]

Don't get off topic please. 

[carlosrose]

I know some people might disagree about this but I have to say it, gun battle artisan is far from weak or useless, in 1v1 they are off the charts. In fact if you do a gun bourg vs a BA the artisan will own 90% of the time. 

 

One of the current problems with BA at the moment is their low aspeed compared to bourg, the fact that the gun bourg has UNLIMITED extra 100% aspeed is what makes BA pale in comparaison when you compare the amount of kills and damage inflicted among those you. 

 

Nevertheless BA are extremely useful in wars and AA when played properly, their sleep and 2 stuns (skill and nade) make them one of the most annoyings class you can encounter and you can end up dead easily if the BA knows how to play his job and times the skills properly. 

 

If you ask me, one the reasons why people dont play BA that much atm is bcoz the effort needed to play the job properly is not "rewarded" meaning you put so much effort on a game and if you have raiders or gun bourgs on your team they will KS most of ur kills, therefore you may end up with low points. While on the other hand playing a hawker job like a katar raider takes little to no skill and is easy to earn high points:, they mainly gang on players or rush under xtal to get high dmg points thx to their DPS.

 

Dont get me wrong I would love to see BA able to do their best, idk if it was here or on another topic but implement those "assist kills" could really boost BA score and maybe then more ppl would actually play the job

 

 

 

Now that was on terms of Gun BA, I would still have to test boomer (probably won't though xD) anyway now about the suggestions and ideas you made:

 

1. I liked the idea of the mini robots for both gun and launcher. Can add something different and new that is really needed, what I always wanted to see would be artisans allowed to use a special CG fas a defense mechanism or attack (a CG with 1 or 2 skills that enhance and change the gameplay)
2. I get that launcher BA has a lack of aoes, but I would still like to have a difference on gun and launcher (just as bourg) meaning 2 skill trees, what I like and enjoy the most from gun BA is that sleep aoe and stuns (being force to get too many skills just bcoz launcher bourg needs some would make gun BA into a dissadvantage in terms of skill points.

3. Skill Name: Art of Artillery;

   " Having gained advanced insight on your target from afar, your attack power and move speed are increased with each Skill Cast at a 40% chance. [ 5% Attack Power + 60 Move Speed per stack, Max 5 Stacks]" -> as long as it is by skill cast on launcher and meele hit on gun I have nothing to say about it, (in the case that dealer tree would remain the same then both sub-classes would have 2 stack up passives from which they can benefit.

[Feuer]

Thank you carlos for your input. The only thing I wanted to correct was that both Gun + Cannon get sleep. Infact, Cannon is more efficient at sleeping enemy's as the AoE passive form the cannon [offense] tree increases the radius of the sleep. I'll consider the rest. 

[carlosrose]

Oh yeah I never meant that gun sleep was better, but atm seeing at as a whole the Gun is more efficient in wars 

[Feuer]

I can agree to that. I put my Artisan as a Gun user and performed [at rough guess] about 35-40% better than when I wielded a Cannon. So yeah, no argument there. 

[Krizalis]

Ba is weak yes in terms of defense but that is to be expected becuz of the high dps, accu, crit they deal to single targets.. I can say u r right carlos.. If played right in aa.. They are a real handful.. If you are able to hide or keep attention away from yourselves so you are not the main target, you can be an important assets to the team! I was amazed my ba, not even usin honor gears.. Only exalted 210.. Was able to get 23 kills in one recent aa and get around 400 honor pts! Just need to keep urself hidden and pick those raiders off who are targeting ur teams mages/fs clerics/ other aoers and your team is sure to win

[carlosrose]

Actually BA (gun) is even more competitive in PvP that I expected:

 

1)As defender without a cleric on our side but both sides with max dex buff

 

 

 

2)As attacker side vs a team with FS, both sides with max dex buff:

 

 

 

 

 

 

So when it comes to BA gun type I think is pretty balanced atm and allows them to perform pretty darn good, is just the launcher BA that REALLY needs a rework 

 

Another thing that should be taken care of is the unlimited aspeed on bourgs, the cooldown on weapon augment and augmenting reflect should be a shared. Having unlimited 200-300% asped (depending on build and buffs) + 100% aspeed stack makes it pretty broken. As well as how comes Artisans are the only class in game without decloak ¬¬ that eye summon should be on common tree...

 

Edited by carlosrose, 30 June 2015 - 06:17 AM.

[DoubleRose]

Gun is in a much stronger spot that launcher. Launcher is a bunch of stuff that doesn't scale together, and launcher's attack speed of -2 is terrible.

[Feuer]

I still beg to differ on the BA vs GB and BA winning 90% of the time. Statistically speaking, that's impossible. The GB's total stat weight dominates the BA's. In terms of who's playing smarter, has better gear, better buffs, better passives, better clan perks etc, it becomes possible. But from a base level, stat weight point of view, the BA is 1/2 as strong as GB's. 

 

GB's have a higher pierce potential with their new proc, where as before the new Bourg boosts, the Arti had a higher potential.

GB's have a higher Dodge potential, with Reflection. Artisan has neither.

GB's have a higher Aspeed potential, both from base point and geared point.

GB's have a Long Range stun, while BA only has a long range, SLOW cast sleep.

 

So from a base point, GB's are significantly more Capable when compared to their Artisan Clone. 

[DoubleRose]

launcher bourg vs launcher arti bourg gets an extra 10% attack power because their ap passive is significantly better

And all that crit and crit damage... jury-rigging... better aoes

Edited by DoubleRose, 09 July 2015 - 06:19 AM.

[Feuer]

Launcher Arti vs Launcher Bourg the Artisan will most definitely win from base points. That however is only due to the Artisan having single target skills in their second tree that don't rely on Close Range. The Bourg only get's 1 Single Target long range.

 

However, in an AoE Setting, the Launcher bourge outshines the Artisan by miles. Which is one of the causes for how I structured this proposal. 

[carlosrose]

I still beg to differ on the BA vs GB and BA winning 90% of the time. Statistically speaking, that's impossible. The GB's total stat weight dominates the BA's. In terms of who's playing smarter, has better gear, better buffs, better passives, better clan perks etc, it becomes possible. But from a base level, stat weight point of view, the BA is 1/2 as strong as GB's. 

 

GB's have a higher pierce potential with their new proc, where as before the new Bourg boosts, the Arti had a higher potential.

GB's have a higher Dodge potential, with Reflection. Artisan has neither.

GB's have a higher Aspeed potential, both from base point and geared point.

GB's have a Long Range stun, while BA only has a long range, SLOW cast sleep.

 

So from a base point, GB's are significantly more Capable when compared to their Artisan Clone. 

 

You can differ all you want Feuer but the BA with the 2 stuns and the sleep when timed properly the GB is hopeless as he wont be able to move in a 1v1. Another thing is how capable they are at bigger encounters

 

The GB's long stun range has just a 50% stun chance (unless you get the PvP one that has 70%) and as for the dodge.... Like it would make any difference on that PvP. If you wanna talk about a defensive mechanism talk about reflect, that really makes a difference.

 

Now the fact that BA is the only class without eye, the fact that GB has an unlimited 100% extra aspeed+ another 100% aspeed stack AND ON TOP OF THAT the pierce defensive stack.. Is what really makes the BA seem "weak"

 

Talk about a broken class atm ¬¬

[Feuer]

Yes, but you still have to account for the fact that the BA doesn't have a single defensive stat or passive/proc. And that the Stun is a 2m Range, while the Grenade is slightly further but not 100%, somewhere around 60% it feels.

The sleep will do nothing against a Range threat. And in PvP a lot of your threat is ranged, as you can't last long inside the AoE pit, and if you're out on your own, you're an easy target. And without any defenses, an even easier one at that. Not only that, but using it on a cluster of enemies is useless, as there's always AoE's, and 1 AoE = breaks everyone in sleep. 

[MidnightSmurf]

Carlos, you're an exceptional player and I don't mean to take any of that away from you. But, you gotta consider how other plays the character as well and not you alone

It could be, not saying it is(!), you that are broken^^ I further more believe you often play with friends that you somehow communicate with during fights.. *Buh*, spooked ya. Am I right?

[carlosrose]

Yes, but you still have to account for the fact that the BA doesn't have a single defensive stat or passive/proc. And that the Stun is a 2m Range, while the Grenade is slightly further but not 100%, somewhere around 60% it feels.

The sleep will do nothing against a Range threat. And in PvP a lot of your threat is ranged, as you can't last long inside the AoE pit, and if you're out on your own, you're an easy target. And without any defenses, an even easier one at that. Not only that, but using it on a cluster of enemies is useless, as there's always AoE's, and 1 AoE = breaks everyone in sleep. 

 

I was talking in terms on 1v1 in a war i stay away from GB unless i can snipe them from the shadows o; Seeing them run is one of the most satisfying things xD, alsmot as much as wrecking raiders on 1v1

 

About the sleep in wars the comunication is crucial so timing the sleep and ur team aoes becoems pretty darn important

 

 

Carlos, you're an exceptional player and I don't mean to take any of that away from you. But, you gotta consider how other plays the character as well and not you alone

It could be, not saying it is(!), you that are broken^^ I further more believe you often play with friends that you somehow communicate with during fights.. *Buh*, spooked ya. Am I right?

 

*___* You making me blush. I mean is not just meh o; Other BA like Luvenio and Luvenia are doing great as well and we all use different sets xD I gotta tell them to stop by this topic

 

As for me playing with friends well yeah playing solo gets boring xD Nevertheless all those SS are from me playing solo, in fact untill i got all the sets i didnt bother grouping with clanmates with my BA as it "wasnt ready"

[Feuer]

In theory using 'planning' for the sleep is nice, but if even 1 person doesn't get the message and casts an AoE, the whole plan is gone. In AA's, it's impossible to coordinate that single skill unless all 15 players are in Vent/TS etc. And those short ranges on the Stuns are just risky. Too Risky to rush in to use when you have no defensive abilities, especially when your one Defensive spell that isn't a stun easy get's pulled off by an AoE. 

[Calliou05]

Just a few matches on my BA, Theyre fine in terms of AA although they really do lack skills/aspd. 10 Attacks to gain 100% aspd isn't good for how long it lasts, needs to be adjusted. But other than that they seem fine to me.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Calliou05, 13 July 2015 - 11:27 PM.

[KatsuraKujo]

Just a few matches on my BA, Theyre fine in terms of AA although they really do lack skills/aspd. 10 Attacks to gain 100% aspd isn't good for how long it lasts, needs to be adjusted. But other than that they seem fine to me.

I think the one problem with this suggestion is that the stacking melee skill is in the dealer tree (if i'm not wrong) so if adjusted to a stronger rate, then it would affect the gun bourgs and make them possibally even more stronger than they are now.

[Feuer]

Calliou05

You're not really rank 1 from performance, you're rank 1 form your points earned, which is affected by your booster. DaiiChii did 3x your damage, AND got more kills than you. He defended longer and ended up under you, simply because of the point cap. 

 

 

edited to remove comments directed at another player

Edited by VModCupcake, 14 July 2015 - 12:21 PM.

[carlosrose]

I'm gonna stick to the same: bring out the most recent data on the performance of BA's in AA and lets take it from there