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Are Knights-Paladins-Dragoons still good ?


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#26 sean718

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Posted 26 September 2015 - 10:49 AM

I will say yes based on my experience.

 

I've been around for a while. Dragoons were extremely popular in 8x BSQ prior to nerfs.

 

https://forums.warpp...ass-discussion/

 

Warrior discussions still have the most traffic after 2+ years after their nerfs. A small example and hopefully you can leave it at that. 


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#27 StormHaven

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Posted 26 September 2015 - 11:06 AM

lol. Really?

 

Camei, xKrazed, Slammin(when he finally level up to 8X),Clark were the only Dragoon's that ever consistently showed up to ,8X BSQ and would make a difference on their Dragoons, pre-nerf that I can remember, but in 6X range pallies were everywhere.


Edited by StormHaven, 26 September 2015 - 11:08 AM.

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#28 SoulSight

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Posted 26 September 2015 - 11:08 AM

are we not allowed to say out players' name? :/


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#29 sean718

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Posted 26 September 2015 - 11:11 AM

Camei, xKrazed, Slammin(when he finally level up to 8X),Clark were the only Dragoon's that ever consistently showed up to ,8X BSQ and would make a difference on their Dragoons, pre-nerf that I can remember, but in 6X range pallies were everywhere.

 

There were plenty of other dragoons who weren't as stacked that were frequent in that BSQ. That is not a cause to say that the class itself wasn't as popular. It definitely was. If you compare their presence to now, it's by a massive margin.


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#30 StormHaven

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Posted 26 September 2015 - 11:50 AM

There were plenty of other dragoons who weren't as stacked that were frequent in that BSQ. That is not a cause to say that the class itself wasn't as popular. It definitely was. If you compare their presence to now, it's by a massive margin.

 

Dragoon's were definitely super popular in EW,1v1s,Tournaments,Group PvP, Duels etc, but not as much in BSQ where a single Invoker/WM/Sentinel could shut down their Barricade log enough for everyone to jump on them.


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#31 ohsnap

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Posted 26 September 2015 - 01:09 PM

Dragoon's were never ever popular in 8X battlesquare even prior to their nerfs, It's always been Invoker and Evade Land, the 2 things that just crap all over pallies in general back then.

 

Dragoon's have become what Savages were pre-head spin and 4th job, so balanced they don't feel like they bring anything to the table, yet in the right hands(and effort) will roll through most any class with ease.

let us relive the moment where every pally roamed around the water battlesquare map with barricade on and holding flags. Also There's never a consistent popularity of one class. If you named 4 consistent dragoons there's also 4 consistent invokers and 4 consistent summoners. The chances of finding a huge number of one class in every bsq is slim. At one point pallies in bsq are certainly difficult and annoying to deal with and I'm sure with resist and no nerfs whatsoever it will be just as worse. 

 

Also no offense SoulSight but you're spouting a bunch of bs that doesn't really support anything. First off an imbalance is always a negative if something is too strong it's a negative if something is too weak it's a negative there's never a positive effect to imbalances. Whether chain combos existed or not it made no difference for a pally cause we had 5 different moves that cc. It did however improve mages, archers, but wasn't much of an effect for pally. 

 

Block ignored any damage or any cc it is a completely huge impact. The only thing that worked against it was something like barbarian, sleep, or frog. If a dragoon stacks resist and has block on top of the heals and super armor from barricade. How will any one person kill him? You will need to send a group to cc lock the pally and if it's bsq you also have teammates protecting you. Please ACTUALLY have pvp experience before being objective. 


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#32 SoulSight

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Posted 26 September 2015 - 01:34 PM

Please do not say anything in the past or relive something. I don't know if you care that i did not play Dragoon or not but SoulSight is my first dragoon. After 2 years of quitting, I had just gone back for 14 months. My decision of playing Dragoon is to know how Dragoon was so OP but everything ended up like this. I know that Dragoon deserves to be nerfed but it's too much. I kept playing until now and realize that Dragoons do not belong to 8x battlesquare. Yes, they roamed and held flags blah blah blah...but i didn't so what? Who cares right?

 

Imbalance are either bad or good. Look at Savage as an example before go on this argument.

 

Correct me if i misunderstand. If you mean elemental resistance, hopefully you understand that there are 4 elements. If you chose to resist one element, the chance would be 1/4 to be the right person who uses "wrong" weapon. 4 elements resistance socket exist, then what? It's not cheap and easy to get, the 6* costs a lot! And just because of elements, it becomes so complicated. Good luck with stacking!


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#33 Agitodesu

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Posted 26 September 2015 - 01:49 PM

Note that you can stack more than 1 type of resistance. I have around 8-9k of all resists.(Except demolition duh) Now if you chose either a fire/ice/nature/dark elga weapon. Let me tell you, you will do little to no damage. It is easier to stack attack than resists. Now to stack all 4 elements at the same time is hard but it pays off. I suck at pvp, but hey at least I try. You should give it a go once in a while and stack something if you pve, I make a decent amount of gold pve(ing) and I assume you should too. You shouldn't take it as a personal attack either. We are complaining about classes and you are well enough to be put as an example as a dragoon player. Be proud.


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#34 SoulSight

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Posted 26 September 2015 - 02:29 PM

Sadly Dragoons are not a damage bringer class. Too much effort to spend for dungeon...yeah...spending money again. Money everytime everytime.


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#35 Apocryphos

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Posted 27 September 2015 - 11:37 AM

They're still better than gladiator at dealing damage due to multi hitting element procs.
Now, Dragoons are fundamentally crippled by the system.
1.Absolute Def Rate, a non existent stat that needs to be incredibly high, since it affects def rate(given by shields) , % cards only effect flat's (shields giving the most amount of flat absolute def rate.),(this stat determines chance of blocking.)
2. Shield Mastery - does not give final block rate, or block damage that scales with level. ( Amazing how our competent dev team can't even fix this after almost 2 years )

3. Block Damage -  only way to get higher block damage is via shield, enchanting or soul crafting won't help
4. Parry-  Doesn't give any block damage, it give's absolute block rate % which is again useless. if you have no def rate, due to broken shield mastery.

5. Def percent passives for dragoon should go to total, there only redeeming feature for being a tank should be there ease for getting defense ( which will help with getting high resistance )

6. Sacred Protection, the ideal skill for a tanking Dragoon, the skill is a disappointment at level 5 you take 50% of what ever damage the one you're protecting, in other words you'll die for them, the skill itself should be buffed, it should give the ones being protected 50% of Dragoon's resistance & defense. should probably be instant cast.

7. Super armor, no longer super, knockback skill's destroy super armor.


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#36 SoulSight

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Posted 27 September 2015 - 11:46 AM

I'm so glad that i have read some non-senses from you. I would like to know more. :) Looks like I have found an expert.


Edited by SoulSight, 27 September 2015 - 11:48 AM.

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#37 Coolsam

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 05:35 PM

They're still better than gladiator at dealing damage due to multi hitting element procs.

 

It depends on the Gladiator's setup.

 

Attack-speed Gladiator can close the gap with X-spam w/ decent fps. It provides decent flinching knockbacks and stuns. It can also be combined with Gladiator skills like I'm gone bear and gust slash.

 

Ground-combos might be slightly in Dragoons favor however. Spear jab does more hits than any of Gladiator's ground skills with the exception of Death Stinger and the chain combo's knockback can enable escapes unless stun is used frequently. If you made it a wall-combo then Dragoon could just Rolling Ground to compensate which easily out-elements any Overlord skill.

 

Air-combos might be a dead-tie. As no Time-Reverse enabling infinite air lock means Mega-Storm+Storm vs. Wyvern+Storm is equal in number of its.

 

However; Element damage values are higher for Gladiators assuming the same number and star value cards and accessories. Accessories alone w/ 4* sockets and +20 Element BDL Overlord can reach 3,000 Element attack where the same setup would only make a Dragoon hit 2/3rds of that.

 

Of course, I've never tested Attack Speed Myrm vs. Dragoon in element damage oput.


Edited by Coolsam, 30 September 2015 - 05:40 PM.

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#38 SoulSight

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 05:44 PM

Attack-speed Gladiator can close the gap with X-spam w/ decent fps. It provides decent flinching knockbacks and stuns. It can also be combined with Gladiator skills like I'm gone bear and gust slash.

 

Ground-combos might be slightly in Dragoons favor however. Spear jab does more hits than any of Gladiator's ground skills with the exception of Death Stinger and the chain combo's knockback can enable escapes unless stun is used frequently. If you made it a wall-combo then Dragoon could just Rolling Ground to compensate which easily out-elements any Overlord skill.

 

Air-combos might be a dead-tie. As no Time-Reverse enabling infinite air lock means Mega-Storm+Storm vs. Wyvern+Storm is equal in number of its.

 

Of course, I've never tested Attack Speed Myrm vs. Dragoon in element damage oput.

 

I saw you used Unity weapon, to cancel effect, you could equip and unequip the archer's support ring.

I did not play Dragoon in the past so i do not about this : What if spin it bear was constant cast, then without time reverse aura, could Dragoon air-lock?

Dragoon with attack speed is very cool i honestly admit! I saw one with attack speed and the combo X X X X Z was so fascinating! Hopefully i won't make mistake mistapping :D


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#39 Coolsam

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 06:38 PM

I saw you used Unity weapon, to cancel effect, you could equip and unequip the archer's support ring.

I did not play Dragoon in the past so i do not about this : What if spin it bear was constant cast, then without time reverse aura, could Dragoon air-lock?

Dragoon with attack speed is very cool i honestly admit! I saw one with attack speed and the combo X X X X Z was so fascinating! Hopefully i won't make mistake mistapping :D

 

I just have a unity weapon because it was sc'ed before Pirate weapons were released.

 

To answer your Instant-cast bear question; Yes, easily, with just a chain of three skills, inescapable too without some super-armored way of getting down immediately after air recovery.


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#40 SoulSight

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 08:53 AM

Not bumping thread but I have found out that Elemental damage does not apply Spin It Bear and Chain Shield. Curious!


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#41 Makuron

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 09:01 AM

Probably because they're considered 'summons', alone-standing skills which do damage while youre able to move and do other things.


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#42 SoulSight

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 09:11 AM

I have recently watched CoolSam's youtube again and I saw that Incoming bear does elemental damage and I'm Gone Bear does not. Explanation?


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#43 Agitodesu

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 09:44 AM

It applies the elemental damage as a 1 hit split into the many hits. So it's like what storm haven said a while back. If you have 600 ele, it splits into 3, 200 per hit. More hits-the damage distribution makes the damage look lower. I really don't bother checking it's useless anyways as an offensive elemental skill unless the other guy is practically gearless, or you're playing pve.
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#44 SoulSight

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 10:09 AM

But at least you must see the element effect on the victim. I see none!

 

I was pvp-ing with a guy with 500 fire element, I have literally no resistance but defense and the result is he dealt 80 damage per hit. What does it tell?


Edited by SoulSight, 22 November 2015 - 10:13 AM.

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#45 Agitodesu

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 11:14 AM

500/8=62.5 ele damage per hit +17.5 damage normally np


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#46 SoulSight

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 12:19 PM

I don't understand why you divide by 8 but I'm gonna call him and make a record of it. There is a difference.

P.S : Spin it bear hits victim 5 times.

Edited by SoulSight, 22 November 2015 - 12:31 PM.

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#47 Agitodesu

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 01:30 PM

I don't know, maybe because I'm gone bear hits 8 times? and I really don't care what spin it bear does sorry, since you were talking about overlord bears not spin it bear, you don't have to tell me things I already know.


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#48 SoulSight

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 03:01 PM

Ok, summary : A dragoon guy with 500 fire attack hits another dragoon with no resistance by spin it bear. The bear dealt 80 damage each time.

I apologize for being unclear.

 

I was comparing a parallel skill.


Edited by SoulSight, 22 November 2015 - 03:46 PM.

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#49 Nobbye

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 03:40 PM

Ok, summary : A dragoon guy with 500 fire attack hits another dragoon with no resistance by spin it bear. The bear dealt 80 damage each time.

I apologize for being unclear.


You said yourself that elemental dmg doesnt apply to Spin it Bear. Whats the problem in this case? :hmm:
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#50 SoulSight

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 03:44 PM

What i mean is I'm curious to know why it does not apply to Spin it bear.

 

As i mentioned above, spin it bear hits 5 times, i received 80 damage each hit. I have no resistance, he has 500 fire damage so it does not makes sense if elemental damage applies to spin it bear. Total damage he made was 400 damage including normal damage.

 

Therefore he should have dealt at least 500 damage because i have no resistance.

 

Makuron was considering that it was called summon. I said Incoming bear does elemental damage, I'm gone bear does not. Both are summons.


Edited by SoulSight, 22 November 2015 - 04:10 PM.

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