72 replies to this topic

[Ashuckel]

There's a quest that should allow you to buy Lemon undefinitelly, iRO changed the quest so you can't. Its a commom thing that ppl do in bRO, get lemons from the quest and resell like 10-20% higher(usually 1.2k) at common leveling places. Just like guarana candies quest, that is different on iRO, there you pay 500z for each piece(and ppl resell this for 700-1.2k at common leveling places) here is way too much more expensive '-'

[WhiteWolf182]

If the Straws is one of the main zeny maker for bots, it's not simpler to just hunt the bots? We know the map they are concentrated looting straws, just perma ban them all. It would leave the Straw loot as a zeny maker to new players. Buying the Straws from bots/noobs/npc wont make any difference for experienced / rich players.

[ZeroTigress]

They don't have the manpower to ban bots on a daily basis. For every one they ban, 10 more pop up. It's actually better to just have NPCs sell botted items since that's one less item for botters to profit from and it addresses the inflation issue at the same time.

[Ashuckel]

Fortunatelly, iRO still not at the same state of bRO on bot issues, where the staff recognized they can't manually combat botters and are going to stop doing this(a GM admited it in a ticket), they are going to create an automated system to it but, mehh, you know... :v

Edited by Ashuckel, 08 March 2016 - 06:28 PM.

[WhiteWolf182]

If they don't have the manpower to ban bots, they should try another ways to stop them, it's sad trying to compete against them.

 

Selling the Straws at NPC it's a start, but wont change much.

 

@Ashuckel The bots in bRO are ridiculous, i played there in the past.

[AustenHeller]

They don't have the manpower to ban bots on a daily basis. For every one they ban, 10 more pop up. It's actually better to just have NPCs sell botted items since that's one less item for botters to profit from and it addresses the inflation issue at the same time.

Again, very good idea! I don't get it. It's so simple, even if just to do it during a trial period!!! Yet, GMs are doing nothing.

[Hikusaak]

They don't have the manpower to ban bots on a daily basis. For every one they ban, 10 more pop up. It's actually better to just have NPCs sell botted items since that's one less item for botters to profit from and it addresses the inflation issue at the same time.

 

And I wonder why they haven't done this until now...

[Icarus05]

Causes of hyperinflation

 

Demand pull inflation

this thing happen when there is a lot of demand in a certain object, the prices will sky rocket

 

Profit push inflation

This thing happen when the vendors(especially the sellers of rare items, or to the persons who have access with this items) intentionally raises the prices of an object just to get money(zeny)

 

Structural inflation

This thing happen if the officials implemented a wrong policy about how our money flow[this thing was already solve since we can see the price of the high end items in ragial, thanks to limit vend implementation]

 

And all of this thing happen in iRO  , we can't limit an item because the price will inflate, we can make the other rare items except MVP cards accessible to others so that it will be cheaper,  no , this is hard to solve, we're not economist so let's give this problem to someone good in economics

[ZeroTigress]

Again, very good idea! I don't get it. It's so simple, even if just to do it during a trial period!!! Yet, GMs are doing nothing.

And I wonder why they haven't done this until now...

Only reason I can see for this is that it's such a low priority for them, they easily forget about it. I'm not the first person to suggest this, which is very telling of how very low of a priority this has been for years.

[Morlord]

They don't have the manpower to ban bots on a daily basis. For every one they ban, 10 more pop up. It's actually better to just have NPCs sell botted items since that's one less item for botters to profit from and it addresses the inflation issue at the same time.

 

1 employee 1 hour a day would be able to ban more than enough bots for them to slow down

[ZeroTigress]

1 employee 1 hour a day would be able to ban more than enough bots for them to slow down

So you're saying a human being could slow down several machines that work at inhuman rates (because that's what bots are, machines).

According to Oda, they did have a worker dedicated to only stopping bots on a daily basis. What happened? People didn't notice a difference. Because in war between humans and machines, machines usually win out.

[Ashuckel]

If the process of baning a bot was just Right Click>Ban, there would be a small chance of perhaps slowing em down, but as ZT said, machines are just faster than humans. Not to mention that bot checking doesnt work like that.

[AustenHeller]

So you're saying a human being could slow down several machines that work at inhuman rates (because that's what bots are, machines).

According to Oda, they did have a worker dedicated to only stopping bots on a daily basis. What happened? People didn't notice a difference. Because in war between humans and machines, machines usually win out.

My bet would be on implementing automatic bans done by an algorithm plus a well-staffed appeals desk. That way we ban almost all the bots and make sure innocent people get a chance to recover their accounts. Yeah, I know, it will be unfair to the very rare cases where a player behaves like a bot and loses the appeal. But no justice system ever has realistically aimed not to punish any single innocent person ever. At some point you just have to be pragmatic and think of the greater good.

[Inubashiri]

If the process of baning a bot was just Right Click>Ban, there would be a small chance of perhaps slowing em down, but as ZT said, machines are just faster than humans. Not to mention that bot checking doesnt work like that.

It will be nearly that simple when my ingame reporting project is approved, it'll even have a tool for the GMs to pull bot reports from the system with an ingame utility. However for the purposes of those who would abuse it, the software will be tied to both an account id and an api key to prevent distribution without permission. Everyone always wanted bot hunting groups, well there ya go.

[ZeroTigress]

My bet would be on implementing automatic bans done by an algorithm plus a well-staffed appeals desk. That way we ban almost all the bots and make sure innocent people get a chance to recover their accounts. Yeah, I know, it will be unfair to the very rare cases where a player behaves like a bot and loses the appeal. But no justice system ever has realistically aimed not to punish any single innocent person ever. At some point you just have to be pragmatic and think of the greater good.

Regardless of whatever solution we come up with, there's still the issue of red tape: getting developer approval. And unless someone is fluent in Korean and can actually explain all this in detail to the developers, a quick solution cannot be done with the language barrier between international players and the developers.

However, having NPCs sell botted items is something I'm pretty sure the iRO team is capable of so that is a worthwhile solution to pursue while we wait for the developers to come up with more effective means of combat.

[zilahmonsan]

How about checking the straw bot's usual trading partners and then check if that is the straw seller. Then check the straw sellers where they usually give the money. If they have the same IP, ban.

[ZeroTigress]

How about checking the straw bot's usual trading partners and then check if that is the straw seller. Then check the straw sellers where they usually give the money. If they have the same IP, ban.

IP bans don't work, the botters will simply switch to another IP while legitimate players get caught in the IP ban.

[hotel]

If they don't have the manpower to ban bots, they should try another ways to stop them, it's sad trying to compete against them.

 

Selling the Straws at NPC it's a start, but wont change much.

 

@Ashuckel The bots in bRO are ridiculous, i played there in the past.

 

Everything, change included, has to start somewhere.

 

It won't do much to impact the number of bots running around on the server but it will help to drain out the masses of zeny those bots inject into the economy.

[AustenHeller]

However, having NPCs sell botted items is something I'm pretty sure the iRO team is capable of so that is a worthwhile solution to pursue while we wait for the developers to come up with more effective means of combat.

 

Heh. Something tells me it would actually be faster to learn Korean from scratch and give the the proposal yourself than wait for the gears of the official machinery to start working.

[ShinobiEX3]

hmm

[gatygun]

Banning bots isn't hard at all. Just go to geffen tool shop and cut down the teleporter. Massive amounts of bots will get stuck there = check there ip's and boom lots of bans all over the place.

 

One gm writes them down, another checks there ip's, another bans them. 

 

Do these kind of things for a week. For example scramble every week the teleporters, move them around the map or stuff like that. And bots will get stuck etc etc.

 

It's so easy to get to see what bots are in simple ways and get massive amounts of them trapped at once. 

 

They can even change ip's or locations with each maintaince so that 99% of the bots have absolutely no idea what's happening. Or make like invisible monsters that are passive and only can be seen by bot programs which bots get stuck on and when they get attacked = autoban.

 

Go look at europe ragnarok and see how every single level area is a deserted area. Maybe one or two chars you will see there and that's it. Iro every single low level area is grinded to hell and back by 100's of bots. But what are all these people doing there? are there so many people leveling in these area's? where you maybe stay in for 20 minutes in total to get your few levels before you move on? Yea nope.

 

Bots are programs and bots are stupid because of that. Change the rotation that they are not programmed for they will stop functioning.

Another example wanna stop auto generation with bots? just scramble the starting area around for example. put a wall at the start where you walk over the bridge, put a npc next towards it and adjust it every week with a question and answer, there is absolute zero way a bot can adopt towards this and they will get instantly stuck at the wall. Or just make the registration process a bit more tricky, like put a telephone number from yoru mobile and confirm it with a message. 

Anyway so many ways to do stuff.

 

If gm's dont got any time to do this? then get some players from this game to do it and just recruit them and pay them in kafra points. Some of these players are already assigned as moderators on these forums and comment 24/7 with useless posts where nobody is waiting for, why not put them into the game as bot hunters and make them actually useful while they get something in return for it. Give them on there main account some crappy hat where they can brag with or some useless forum title and they will be happy beyond believe.

 

Spend a whole day randomly in a week doing this and bots will be down to a minimum.

 

The fact that they do nothing about it, only confirms that gm's simple want them to exist. And the reason for that are the following:

 

1) it creates fake population, the higher the population the better for there own market people will join because they think more people play there then on another server, as you can easily compare them by login into the server ( just remove the amount of people that play on a server when you log in )

2) it presses prices, look at europe ragnarok a hunter fly card = 100m already. Nothing is payable there at all. And i do agree prices need to drop massively even at its current solution here on iro.

3) It creates this feeling when you start playing of actually people being around you, because a server with zero bots gives new players the feeling that they are walking in a dead world with nobody in there. 

 

So in short bots are interesting for them and they clearly support it because there is absolute zero effort to counter them. And yes i know there 1 hour PR ban bots rotation, lets be honest that hour of banning bots is just a complete joke entirely. Just a PR move as it does nothing.

 

 

Edited by gatygun, 10 March 2016 - 09:09 PM.

[Myzery]

fRO is the way it is because you're forced to get VIP if you don't want to have bad rates.
They still have tons of bots too.

 

http://forum.ragnaro...s-for-everyone/

[gorgoroth1]

Probably should add straws/sp item to every tool dealer NPC with reasonable price. Less 200 straws/sp item bots to worry about beside some portion of zeny sinking is in place rather than zeny changing hand to botters. Maybe it has negative impact...to legit straws farmer? <<< LoL