63 replies to this topic

[flubsy]

Slow movements doesnt mess up peoples minds as much as slow movementspeed doesnt confuse anyone. Secondly you dont spam stuff randomly in pvp.

 

And flub .. a chaincombo animation with 200 atk speed like x, right, z, right, z, right, z, right, z, down, z, down, z, z wont get faster for an archer if you do it at a nasa computer.

 

I don't think you're understanding what I said.  It's relative to the computer your running.  And it's relative to your lag to the server.

 

To most people, from what I understand, they play this on a laptop or on a relatively weak system.  My setup is pretty much near maxed out in terms of graphics, ram, etc...  partially due to the type of work that I do.  I can basically have an atkspd of what looks like 300% with 200% to most people.  People with weaker set ups need to build atkspds of 300% to attack at the same rate of 200% for others.  Chaincombo animation will come out faster with keybinds and macros.  If you don't understand this concept, ask someone to show you.  I'm sure there are enough players out there that use this as I have seen it being used.

 

And as I stated before, I'm ok with no cap.  I don't know what you're arguing with me here.  I'm telling you how it works whether you believe me or not.  

[Agitodesu]

Attack speed cap in general is not necessary overall.

[Zackx23]

I don't think you're understanding what I said.  It's relative to the computer your running.  And it's relative to your lag to the server.

 

To most people, from what I understand, they play this on a laptop or on a relatively weak system.  My setup is pretty much near maxed out in terms of graphics, ram, etc...  partially due to the type of work that I do.  I can basically have an atkspd of what looks like 300% with 200% to most people.  People with weaker set ups need to build atkspds of 300% to attack at the same rate of 200% for others.  Chaincombo animation will come out faster with keybinds and macros.  If you don't understand this concept, ask someone to show you.  I'm sure there are enough players out there that use this as I have seen it being used.

 

And as I stated before, I'm ok with no cap.  I don't know what you're arguing with me here.  I'm telling you how it works whether you believe me or not.  

 

I know that you already said that you don't really force a atkspd cap but this is really weird. At first you say that lot of people have weaker systems for playing this game. So they need to build up more atkspd to get into the same "speed" as high end system players. But now imagine a cap of 200% or 250%. All those guys who had to get 300+ will be capped lower and their compensation in farming atkspd gear to get a decent atkspd will be for nothing because they're capped at 250% for example and their system will slow them down in comparison with a high end system player.

 

I think you should keep in mind that not everyone is able to afford high end systems and also the listed specs you need for the game are way behind high end. So it's quite sure that people with weaker systems will play here

[flubsy]

What are you saying exactly?  

 

I am basically explaining how attack speed works based on different set ups as it seems multiple people don't seem to understand how it works.  If you're trying to say that I'm supporting a cap, I believe I mentioned since my first post on this that I don't think a cap is necessary.  

 

Also on another point, there is nothing wrong with having something nerfed or buffed in general.  It happens in MMO's all the time.  This happens in dragon saga as well. Warlocks, Ninja, Paladin, Overlord, etc... have gone through buffs and nerfs.  Whether it's from stats or skills, the game goes on.  Players will rage, as it has been seen multiple times, but they eventually build new gears and characters.  It's the nature of games in general.  None of those players were compensated, the game technically doesn't owe the players anything, they're just building content in what they deem is the next evolution of the game.

[Precrush]

He's saying that since players with bad systems need to compensate with more atk speed % on their gear to achieve the same atk speed as somebody with a better computer, setting a cap at the point where you don't benefit from atk speed much anymore on a good computer wouldn't be right. Though I'm not sure that any amount of atk speed % will help you get faster if your gear can't handle it. I used to play on a really crappy laptop back in the day and it seemed to me that no amount of atk speed made me shoot faster.

 

Nerfing isn't bad, but buffing is always better then nerfing (shadow nerfing). When making not only balance, but basically any kind of changes in the game the devs have to think about the reaction they would get. It's not advantageous for the company to nerf something to the ground and make a whole bunch of people quit or even have them be annoyed. That's one of the faults our ex-devs had I feel. In our relationship we get entertained, and when we get entertained, the company makes money and the game can grow. However in this case I don't think it matters, the effects of an atk speed cap wouldn't be big enough to cause a bigger stir.

 

Still against it tho

 

 

[Vossel]

I would suggest to remove attackspeed completly for PvP at least and to create something new that speed up all of your actions like a buff that every class has since beginning. So my plan would be to remove all attackspeed out of the PvP and implement a buff that boost your action speed for like 10 seconds by 30% and which has a cooldown of like 1 minute or higher, with action speed i mean anything(skills performed faster, casting gets faster, and so on) This way there can't be an abuse of any macro or what so ever. This requiers to reword a lot of skills for pvp which gives you attackspeed and change them to something else like a bit more movementspeed, critical rate, health or something else(affect adrenaline,Acceleration,Double shot, Diffusion Canon,...) This way there is no possible way of a hitlock just by smashing the x button in anyway, also this would require more of a teamwork for emporia and Battlesquare or more skill for pvp in general.

[Turpi]

Na, i wouldnt like that

[Popcorn]

I don't think you're understanding what I said.  It's relative to the computer your running.  And it's relative to your lag to the server.

 

 

That's not quite correct.

Atk speed is - along with movement speed - the only attribute calculated on the client and not on the server. This is the reason why tools like Cheat Engine worked in the past (and only for that purpose).

It's correct that at a point a specific amount of atk speed can't be reached anymore, but it's not "relative" except the PC is that slow that it's too slow even for an atk speed of 100%. Also it's not relative to the server lag. It's delayed, but the attacks all are computed on the client and then sent to the server. So the attacks might be delayed but in the right speed. Problem here is that a player can be gone when the server gets the information about the attack. That is btw also a problem when playing PvP if players have pings with high differences. 

[5143121023173906760]

That's not quite correct.
Atk speed is - along with movement speed - the only attribute calculated on the client and not on the server. This is the reason why tools like Cheat Engine worked in the past (and only for that purpose).

You forgot skill cooldown, attack range... Welp, no need to list them all.

Vossel, your suggestion would only make X-Spam classes using tanky / damage gear, which would either make them more unbreakable or deadly. So it's a bad idea.

Edited by 5143121023173906760, 18 April 2016 - 07:04 AM.

[Vossel]

You forgot skill cooldown, attack range... Welp, no need to list them all.

Vossel, your suggestion would only make X-Spam classes using tanky / damage gear, which would either make them more unbreakable or deadly. So it's a bad idea.

i think the opposite will happen, cuz if the x-spamm classes are not used to play more with their skills and make combos they will only end up in combo for combo and won't win the fights anymore so easy. Besides most x-spammer are already aiming for the max dmg gear. If my suggestion would be the case then it is possible to remove the debuff on the Invoker x hits cuz they won't be able to do so many hits. Invoker may get more problems for the 1v1 pvp but then they could fulfill what they are used for, assisting and supporting in PvE and Mass PvP like battlesquare or Emporia.

I suggested this not only to make the X-Spamm classes weaker cuz every class got something scaling with attackspeed so every class will get weaker in some point, other classes more but this would be a huge step near to balance

[flubsy]

X Spam classes already are near max tank atkspd or not, that wouldn't change.

Nerfing attackspeed or capping it is not the way to balance PvP.  I always believe in buffing skills and nerfing overpowered skills.

[Popcorn]

You forgot skill cooldown, attack range... Welp, no need to list them all.

 

I can see no proves in the code that this is done on client side, yeah you can "cheat" them and that will be visible to you, but the server itself does the calculations for attack range and cooldown so you will only have some visual bugs on your own client. If you have proves that they can be "cheated" with any tools send them to me. Thanks.

[5143121023173906760]

I can see no proves in the code that this is done on client side, yeah you can "cheat" them and that will be visible to you, but the server itself does the calculations for attack range and cooldown so you will only have some visual bugs on your own client. If you have proves that they can be "cheated" with any tools send them to me. Thanks.

My statement comes from reports that were done on old servers and private servers. Also, casting multiple times your skills while lagging allows you to place the same skill twice (even if that's still with a delay).

For the attack range thingy, I thought you had some recent reports from PvPers, which lead you to prevent client files corruption.

But at the moment, I don't think that any tools are being used on Dragon Saga.

[Vossel]

X Spam classes already are near max tank atkspd or not, that wouldn't change.

Nerfing attackspeed or capping it is not the way to balance PvP.  I always believe in buffing skills and nerfing overpowered skills.

first of all the skills need to scale with the enchanted damage and not the base weapon damage, this would buff some classes really good, indeed we have to be careful not that the scaling of some classes are too absurd and would be too op then