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Nerf sentinels


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#51 Elijazz

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 10:34 AM

I think Turpi just want to set some rules on BSQ about runners but nerfing the sentinels are not a good idea. You know sentinel is a squishy class compared to other class and their advantage is their mspeed. Most of us here are aware that there are rules in other server about bsq runner but I dont think it will be implemented here in NA. My advise for you are:

 

1. Dont play with sentinel with good gears / mspeed if you can't catch them.

2. Dont play BSQ if you dont have enough members to deal with runners.

3. Gear up and have fun. 

LOL!

4. Use sentinel too. 

 

 


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#52 Turpi

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 11:32 AM

Wow, we almost agree Eli xD

 

Well in my opinion they got a point with that 1sec CD increase for tesla, but i dont think its a skill which hurts much. And shotdown actually got like 8sec CD or smth?! Dunno if it wouldnt affect farming if you increase it more.. And 8sec isnt sooo less


Edited by Turpi, 24 April 2016 - 11:41 AM.

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#53 Precrush

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 06:24 PM

Shootdown is on 5 sec cooldown. If it was 8-9 I think that'd be fine.


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#54 eyes2kill

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 09:33 PM

First of all the thread was not to received advised on how to beat any class, so all this argument is worthless. The easy fixed is to simply cap movement speed, the same way they have done with max critical damage, attack speed, and evade. If they can cap movement speed to about 350 - 400 max all this problem would go away. They can still run, but not blazing scared, they can be catch when the spawn comes to kill the mobs. All this arguments about I'm better than you or this is how you kill someone has no meaning at all. 

 

I had no difficulty killing the sentinels as a matter of fact when we went to bsq I killed him 9-0, that's when the running started lol. The individual don't fight at all, just set trap run, run, run.... Kills weaker opponents take flags and goes around in circle, just playing and simple a running competition lol. I have BSQ chars in all level, and is all the same lol, don't matter were you go, there will be someone doing it.

 

My recommendation is to cap movement speed to all characters, because is the only fair thing to do. I started with nerf electrical spam barriers, but sentinels are actually too weak, so add more attack power to them and give higher cool downs to traps. 


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#55 Turpi

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 11:00 PM

I dont think that capping movementspeed is such a good idea coz all classes will kinda have the same ms at the end.

But archer classes and ninjas are supposed to have more ms than others. It would be like a nerf for those and a buff for all the slower classes since they would be easy able to compete with them.

I mean Sentinels and Ninjas are kinda squishy and got lower atk, therefor they got more ms. Got my point?
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#56 eyes2kill

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 04:52 AM

I dont think that capping movementspeed is such a good idea coz all classes will kinda have the same ms at the end.

But archer classes and ninjas are supposed to have more ms than others. It would be like a nerf for those and a buff for all the slower classes since they would be easy able to compete with them.

I mean Sentinels and Ninjas are kinda squishy and got lower atk, therefor they got more ms. Got my point?

 

Hi turpi, I understand, but is not about buffing anyone. The principles behind caping movement speed is about to engage in the battle field more often. Average movement speed is in the 200 plus range, and movement speed is not that much of a big deal during pve, because you can't move faster than you can kill.

 

If average is within 200 plus than doubling that amount is way too much. Therefore, a range of 350 to 400 is more movement speed than you ever need, the only purpose behind it is to run, heal, hit and run some more lol.

 

Any class can reach 400 if within a particular level were they can mix their set. Problem is all sets are distributed with different stat and you wont see those stats if you level up to a higher level with different sets.

 

BSQ in particular is were players stay, with high legend sets and become a butchering ground for low level players. High level players cheat with the continues use of capsules and eternity potions, so if an individual comes and battle the chances are a continues death. Low level players do damage and maybe can take out half their HP, but when they return to battle, they noticed the opponent has full HP due to their healing.

 

Runners in particular and this is all classes abuse that criteria, so if they have good gear they run and use those healings, make it unfair for all other players. I don't do BSQ 50-59 and 60-65, because most people just go there for their job change criteria. I used to battle a lot in that area, but some guilds think is a guild war instead of a BSQ switching and cheating all the time lol.

 

Anyways, it was never about buffing anyone, but rather to have a sense of battle engagement by decreasing the abuse of just straight up running and healing. Have a nice day XD>.<


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#57 5143121023173906760

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 07:33 AM

I don't think capping movement speed will be good either.

Running can be done in BSQ and always being used, regardless of what class you're playing or how much MS you have.

So let's think about what would happen in BSQ if MS was capped : Players will be still running, but this time with a few of their MS equipement replaced with HLT equipements and/or the players that were used to run keep running, using a class that can heal or have superarmor.

I'm still hyped for a 1 second longer cooldown for Tesla (since this topic is about sentinels).
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#58 Turpi

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 08:22 AM

Nono, i know that you arent talking about buffing but its kinda a nerf for MS classes. Ninjas for example can easy reach like 430ms in higher levels/ BSQ without taking a huge loss of HP. Just use POS-Set with elga shoes and bracelet and the regular IM stuff.  And for being so "fast" they got lower atk and hp than an Overlord for example. But if you cap MS at like 350 the result will be that Ninjas are as fast as Overlords in BSQ but still having less ATK and HP.

 

So it would be even more hard for ninjas to compete with other classes since they cant take advantage of their MS anymore. Well thats what I think.


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#59 Vossel

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 09:36 AM

Nono, i know that you arent talking about buffing but its kinda a nerf for MS classes. Ninjas for example can easy reach like 430ms in higher levels/ BSQ without taking a huge loss of HP. Just use POS-Set with elga shoes and bracelet and the regular IM stuff.  And for being so "fast" they got lower atk and hp than an Overlord for example. But if you cap MS at like 350 the result will be that Ninjas are as fast as Overlords in BSQ but still having less ATK and HP.

 

So it would be even more hard for ninjas to compete with other classes since they cant take advantage of their MS anymore. Well thats what I think.

Just for you to know, the Overlord damage shown is just to look fancy and not the acutal damage.

But keep this topic about the sentinel.

Their Movementspeed is just the Basic of their class they are used to be one of the fastest classes. there is no need to give a ms cap.

The only nerf they could have is like others already said some skills with a higher cooldown


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#60 Turpi

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 10:03 AM

Hmm, i dont rly think that they need a nerf. I almost have the feeling that Ninjas and Archers/Sentinels are pretty underused here.


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#61 Bustincaps

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 07:08 PM

You can easily kill a sentinel runner since

1. They have no forum of damage mitigation or oh crap skills.

2. They have low hp/def( It used to be possible to outright 1-2 shot ms pfs/sentinels even with full BSQ buffs on them)

3. They have no form of self heal outside Cake/Eternity pot spam.

 

Crap, I just realized this quote is from page 1/3. I'm too lazy to read through the conversation because I have too much to say on it, so be aware before reading my response. ):

 

I don't mean to be insulting but I'm not sure how to say this without coming off that way....

 

What game are you playing? It must not be Dragonica L0L. This is just completely wrong, man. I'm sorry.

 

1. Shootdown is one of the highest damage skills in the game paired with elements, and it's also the most easily landed skill in the game. There is no denying this. The hitbox is bigger than the skill animation, and lag greatly affects it to the point where you can get hit almost a full screen away (far out of range, in other words).

2. Literally every class is capable of being tanky; it doesn't even matter what build you have. If you stick full 10* max HP cards along with 10* HLT cards on whatever can't hold max HP cards, your character will be plenty tanky. Secondly, Sentinels Hero Bone set is most commonly used as part of their MS build, which has high-average defense for its level and gives health on both the chest and leg (a smart sentinel won't use the legs as a part of their build, though; there are better options). This is the one thing I don't understand your lack of awareness on.... it has been a very long time now that there have been no squishy classes.

3. Most classes don't, and if you're healing in PvP, you're a nab who doesn't enjoy challenge or fair play. I'm not saying it shouldn't be allowed, so please don't put words in my mouth like I know someone will in response to this. I'm simply stating that healing in PvP ruins the fun and purpose of the activity. Whether or not we can come to agreement on the general topic and idea of healing being present in PvP, I think we can at least agree that it ruins the fun and is pretty damn lame.


Edited by Bustincaps, 03 May 2016 - 07:10 PM.

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#62 Turpi

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 07:22 AM

1. Shootdown is one of the highest damage skills in the game paired with elements, and it's also the most easily landed skill in the game. There is no denying this. The hitbox is bigger than the skill animation, and lag greatly affects it to the point where you can get hit almost a full screen away (far out 

 

The most easy landed skill is headspin and swift attack. Compared to those its way more easy to avoid a shotdown in my opinion..


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#63 5143121023173906760

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 09:30 AM

The most easy landed skill is headspin and swift attack. Compared to those its way more easy to avoid a shotdown in my opinion..

 

We should stop comparing every skills with something stronger.

Otherwise we could just agree that sumonner is too OP and buff all the classes so the game become completely broken.

 

Also if Shootdown is combined with elements, attack speed and movement speed, you might die pretty fast if you don't have any element defense.


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#64 Turpi

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 01:54 PM

You always die fast if you have no ele resist. No matter if its dagger, shotdown, snipe, headspin, smartshot aerial frenzy, wyvern blade, invos xspam or other skills
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#65 Coolsam

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 08:51 PM

Crap, I just realized this quote is from page 1/3. I'm too lazy to read through the conversation because I have too much to say on it, so be aware before reading my response. ):

 

I don't mean to be insulting but I'm not sure how to say this without coming off that way....

 

What game are you playing? It must not be Dragonica L0L. This is just completely wrong, man. I'm sorry.

 

1. Shootdown is one of the highest damage skills in the game paired with elements, and it's also the most easily landed skill in the game. There is no denying this. The hitbox is bigger than the skill animation, and lag greatly affects it to the point where you can get hit almost a full screen away (far out of range, in other words).

2. Literally every class is capable of being tanky; it doesn't even matter what build you have. If you stick full 10* max HP cards along with 10* HLT cards on whatever can't hold max HP cards, your character will be plenty tanky. Secondly, Sentinels Hero Bone set is most commonly used as part of their MS build, which has high-average defense for its level and gives health on both the chest and leg (a smart sentinel won't use the legs as a part of their build, though; there are better options). This is the one thing I don't understand your lack of awareness on.... it has been a very long time now that there have been no squishy classes.

3. Most classes don't, and if you're healing in PvP, you're a nab who doesn't enjoy challenge or fair play. I'm not saying it shouldn't be allowed, so please don't put words in my mouth like I know someone will in response to this. I'm simply stating that healing in PvP ruins the fun and purpose of the activity. Whether or not we can come to agreement on the general topic and idea of healing being present in PvP, I think we can at least agree that it ruins the fun and is pretty damn lame.

 

1. This is simply why a cooldown increase was probably the best method to it. With or Without elements, a full 15-hit max, high launching, decent hitbox skill at that low a cooldown needs a look at.

2. Bone sets are a dungeon-based set drop. Like the first dungeon-themed armor set you can get (Mist Elf) and later game varieties, in comparison to other sets at that level it'll be superior due to one or more of the following it has over other sets;

-Better Set Bonuses or less pieces for better bonuses allowing for mix-and-match

-Individual Equip bonuses

-Higher Base Defenses

Also even max-resist, tank-built classes that normally play a damaging role can be considered squishy at times. Even in 81-85 where you have to go full resist and rely on Summoner DPS. Only super-tank mages and maybe dragoons are true tanks and that is because of naturally high defensive prowess (Dragoon, Sorceror if you count Physical Damage reduction) or healing (Mages)

3. Healing in normal PVP I can understand it as a frowned upon thing. Battlesquare, is different. It's whole strat is stall-tactics. So things that are frowned upon roll differently. However basing Sentinel Nerfs around stall-tactics alone is not justified. Healing in Battlesquare would be the only major stalling nerf to consider but that's for a different topic.

 

You always die fast if you have no ele resist. No matter if its dagger, shotdown, snipe, headspin, smartshot aerial frenzy, wyvern blade, invos xspam or other skills

 

Not entirely. If you're not facing the x-spam variety and you have +20 armors then you'll survive a combo or two just fine. Besides, major resistances aside from extreme cases are never seen in any pre-80 PvP. Said extreme cases sometimes aren't even immortal (Even tho the biggest potential is like walking around in a partially enchanted, socket-less PoS Hero set (4k 4-ele) in the lowest levels and the higher cases (75-79 possible) without rare elga would be like having Hero PoS with 4-star res cards.

 

They'd be impressive sure. But trio 6* attacks, even diverse in elements, or even trio 6* attacks with accessories in the 60+ area will pierce and kill with enough of a push.


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