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A truly marvellous upgrade calculator


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#26 fuyukikun

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 11:44 PM

i opened bradium 100 box, and i have +11 TSOD, i want to make it to +13. Hope 100 bradium is enough


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#27 renouille

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 01:49 AM

i opened bradium 100 box, and i have +11 TSOD, i want to make it to +13. Hope 100 bradium is enough

46.4%
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#28 fuyukikun

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 02:05 AM

my dreams just crushed
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#29 Ashuckel

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 02:36 AM

Or just stop at +12 v:
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#30 Kusanagisama

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 05:14 AM

My version > Now I have faith and able to estimate how many zeny I should spend to make my things to go TO +12 in first time of my life. Thanks mathspy.

 

Thanks to some lucky guy's Safe to 10s, I can use this to try to upgrade my KVM, so, I'll have 3 items to try to +12 at this event!  :p_idea: 

 

46.4%

 

I remind learning how to do this at statistics classes, but since I didn't use it after I graduated (9 years ago), I can't remember how this kind of calculation is done. Do you mind sharing the formula or at least what should I google to look for it, Ren?


Edited by Kusanagisama, 20 September 2016 - 05:23 AM.

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#31 renouille

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 09:12 AM

I remind learning how to do this at statistics classes, but since I didn't use it after I graduated (9 years ago), I can't remember how this kind of calculation is done. Do you mind sharing the formula or at least what should I google to look for it, Ren?

octave:1> [0.8 0.2 0 0; 0.8 0 0.2 0; 0 0.84 0 0.16; 0 0 0 1]^100
ans =

   0.42769   0.10369   0.02086   0.44775
   0.41477   0.10056   0.02023   0.46444
   0.35052   0.08498   0.01710   0.54740
   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   1.00000

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#32 Mathspy

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 12:29 PM

my dreams just crushed

My version > Now I have faith and able to estimate how many zeny I should spend to make my things to go TO +12 in first time of my life. Thanks mathspy.

 

Thanks to some lucky guy's Safe to 10s, I can use this to try to upgrade my KVM, so, I'll have 3 items to try to +12 at this event!  :p_idea: 

Good luck to both and 46% is actually a pretty good chance ><

Senpai replied to my post ;w; (Not sarcasm)


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#33 Demeris

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 02:54 AM

Remember people, use Markov Chains!


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#34 Mathspy

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 02:58 PM

Sorry for major necro-threading right here!

 

Added an update I consider to be pretty sweet, hope some of you like it.

Every time I opened the calculator I would have to pinch my eyes to see the numbers due to absence of formatting, now it formats like our beloved Ragi.al does.

 

AND. I would go over Ragi.al and copy paste all the average prices and reformat them

So you no longer have to manually input the price of Normal Ori/Elu or Safe7s or Safe10s (I already added a QoL few months ago to simplify pricing of Enriched/HD, consider this patch 2 of simplification)

 

Is this calculator now spamming Ragi.al with requests? How does it work?

The answer is the calculator doesn't really spam Ragi.al at all (unless you consider 1 request per hour from all the users of the calculator combined spamming Ragi.al)

How? Well I created a mini-RESTful API that requests the average price of previously mentioned items every hour and caches it into its own memory, and then every time any user of the calculator opens the calculator it requests the average from that cache instead of re-requesting everything from Ragi.al again

 

So yeah, now hopefully you don't have to input anything unnecessary, all that's left for you is your own item's price and refine rate and some details about the item!

 

Thank you for using and good luck on your upgrades and please report any bugs you may find :3 <3

 

 

Upcoming feature idea:

- Something to make fuyukikun more willing to upgrade (by displaying different variables representing risks instead of just pure averages)

 


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#35 zilahmonsan

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 06:17 PM

can you create a toggle to change between chaos and thor ragial price?


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#36 Mathspy

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 05:37 AM

can you create a toggle to change between chaos and thor ragial price?

Sorry for slow reply, you can check the calculator now! Both the API and the calculator now supports Thor!
 
Extra niftiness:
Added full support for Odin (Selecting Odin strips the calculator from majority of the features since they are not yet available)
 
API updated:

Been fully rewritten in JS Promises <3 Feel free to hook into the API if you feel like making a similar feature for your calculator/whatever!

 

Now supports Odin/Thor using routes, defaults to Chaos at root (i.e: /):

 

API no longer requests prices hourly, moved to daily instead and used a better caching method (You should not have to wait as long as before when requesting prices in general but they won't be as up-to-date)

 
 
Special thanks to Renouille for helping me with the new Cloudflare Jazz <3


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#37 ClickClickClick

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 04:47 PM

Never understood why people waste their time on this -_-.

 

It either works or it doesn't, and it most likely won't, that's all anyone really needs to know.


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#38 YongkySH

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 06:08 PM

Never understood why people waste their time on this -_-.

It either works or it doesn't, and it most likely won't, that's all anyone really needs to know.


Why wont it work?
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#39 ClickClickClick

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 06:48 PM

Why wont it work?

 

Because it's Warp Portal, because they're a company and they want money, because the less likely you are to succeed the more money they make as you continue to gamble out of frustration.

 

You ever go to a casino? Play a slot machine? You get all those little pay offs in between the failures, creates an illusion of success, makes you think you'll come out ahead, keeps you gambling longer, more likely to spend more money. Hence why you'll get +8 tons of times, but that +9, +10 those are rare cause the harder it is for you to get, the more money they get out of you. And if you do get that rare jackpot, who wins? You? No, they do. You just spent 100+ USD for an item that has no real value.

 

Feed yer kids, pay yer bills, buy healthcare, do something constructive with your money.


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#40 Mathspy

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 01:56 PM

Some people don't really spend a dime on this game and buy their upgrading supplies from other purchasers, those people still wanna upgrade anyway. And this is really there to help people have a feel of what their items are worth, in zeny.

 

And to me I originally started this because I just wanted to continue Azzy's legacy as I heavily used his calculator but it's using wrong rates. And now I enjoy finding smaller projects (Like the Ragi.al API) to practice some of my new knowledge (JS Promises) on. I enjoy programming ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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#41 ClickClickClick

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 02:30 PM

Some people don't really spend a dime on this game and buy their upgrading supplies from other purchasers, those people still wanna upgrade anyway. And this is really there to help people have a feel of what their items are worth, in zeny.

 

And to me I originally started this because I just wanted to continue Azzy's legacy as I heavily used his calculator but it's using wrong rates. And now I enjoy finding smaller projects (Like the Ragi.al API) to practice some of my new knowledge (JS Promises) on. I enjoy programming ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Oh, so what you're saying is that it's okay to encourage people to gamble as long as it's on someone else's dime.

 

Even if you are only spending zeny, KP items do not just magically appear on the market. Some poor fool has to buy said items in order to sell them to you, so you may gamble.

 

It doesn't make the situation better, it compounds it, your gambling addiction feeds their addiction. But hey, it's okay as long as someone else's kids are starving, as long as someone else doesn't have healthcare!


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#42 Hirumminho

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 02:51 PM

Oh, so what you're saying is that it's okay to encourage people to gamble as long as it's on someone else's dime.

 

Even if you are only spending zeny, KP items do not just magically appear on the market. Some poor fool has to buy said items in order to sell them to you, so you may gamble.

 

It doesn't make the situation better, it compounds it, your gambling addiction feeds their addiction. But hey, it's okay as long as someone else's kids are starving, as long as someone else doesn't have healthcare!

 

Wtf bro, everyone knows where to spend their money lol, just because they spend money on an online game it doesn't mean they aren't getting food for their family or healthcare, if people want to gamble, let them gamble, if you don't, it's okay just don't gamble, no one is forcing you to lol.

 

Spoiler

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#43 ClickClickClick

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 03:14 PM

Wtf bro, everyone knows where to spend their money lol, just because they spend money on an online game it doesn't mean they aren't getting food for their family or healthcare, if people want to gamble, let them gamble, if you don't, it's okay just don't gamble, no one is forcing you to lol.

 

 

Actually, people are being forced to.

 

https://forums.warpp...= lose control

 

That guy lost something like 300 bucks trying for a single item, and failed.

 

If you want to stay on top in this game the only way to do so is via gambling, even more so with the OP OCP gear that supposedly wasn't going to be returning. While it's never said directly, it's always a matter of gambling away hundreds trying, or risk never seeing the item up for sale again.

 

Compounding the pressure of rarity and the rush of gambling is a dangerous thing, and time and again freemium MMOs use this tactic to milk people with a mental illness, a serious addiction, for thousands.

 

This -_- right here, this "calculator" does nothing more than enable their addiction, justifying spending money people don't have to fuel an addiction, in hopes of what? Phat lewtz that have no value, nor application in real life?


Edited by ClickClickClick, 16 August 2017 - 03:24 PM.

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#44 ClickClickClick

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 03:36 PM

He shoots, he scores, and the bro walks off the court in shame!

 

RAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!


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#45 Hirumminho

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 03:43 PM

Actually, people are being forced to.

 

https://forums.warpp...= lose control

 

That guy lost something like 300 bucks trying for a single item, and failed.

 

If you want to stay on top in this game the only way to do so is via gambling, even more so with the OP OCP gear that supposedly wasn't going to be returning. While it's never said directly, it's always a matter of gambling away hundreds trying, or risk never seeing the item up for sale again.

 

Compounding the pressure of rarity and the rush of gambling is a dangerous thing, and time and again freemium MMOs use this tactic to milk people with a mental illness, a serious addiction, for thousands.

 

This -_- right here, this "calculator" does nothing more than enable their addiction, justifying spending money people don't have to fuel an addiction, in hopes of what? Phat lewtz that have no value, nor application in real life?

 

Being influenced isn't the same as being forced, addiction is a psychological problem that you should seek professional help to solve, not a company looking for profit, if the individual have a predisposition to gamble, they will gamble with or without a calculator to ""justify"" it. But i do agree with you about freemium MMO's, i'd love to have a not freemium ragnarok i could play, unfortunately that's not the case, so i try my best to farm the itens in-game since us dollar is expensive af for me. But that's enough for a derail from me, you clearly are not going to agree with me and i'm not going to agree with you :)

 

ON-TOPIC:

Ty for the marvelous calculator Mathspy, when i do try to refine something i always get the average number of ores to do it, even though i may get it with less or more ores, and the calculator helps a lot to get the money i need for it  :)


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#46 ClickClickClick

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 04:12 PM

forced
fôrst/
adjective
adjective: forced
  1. obtained or imposed by coercion or physical power.
    "the brutal regime of forced labor"
    synonyms: enforced, forcible, compulsory, obligatory, mandatory, involuntary, imposed, required, stipulated, dictated, ordained, prescribed
    "forced repatriation"
    antonyms: voluntary
    • (of a gesture or expression) produced or maintained with effort; affected or unnatural.
      "a forced smile"
      synonyms: strained, unnatural, artificial, false, feigned, simulated, contrived, labored, stilted, studied, mannered, affected, unconvincing, insincere, hollow; More
      informalphony, pretend, put on
      "a forced smile"
      antonyms: natural
    • (of a plant) having its development or maturity artificially hastened.

 

Soooo.. The act of playing upon one's addictions isn't coercion..?

 

Really, brah?

 

<snip>

 

Get off my court.


Edited by CMAstra, 18 August 2017 - 04:02 PM.
Let's be nice to the other servers.

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#47 Kusanagisama

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 05:23 PM

That one really made me laugh. Lack of self-control is called "cohersion" nowadays. Inability to control your own desire is being seriously compared to people being forced to do stuff with a gun pointed to them or to their beloved ones. And people complain about other people being spoonfed. This is how it all begins.

Jesus Christ click, just no.


Edited by Kusanagisama, 16 August 2017 - 05:24 PM.

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#48 ClickClickClick

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 05:56 PM

Influence and coerce are quite interchangeable.

 

Regardless of your opinion, coercion, while being the stronger of the words, still has the same context.

 

Let's use this formula, shall we?

 

We want _______, if you don't give into our demands _________.

 

Coercion means that one faces consequences for one's action, or lack there of. The same formula is applied in all cases of coercion, we can all agree on that right?

 

We want MONEY, if you don't give into our demands you will no longer be competitive.

 

Fits into said formula perfectly, even more so when you add in the connotation "And you may never be able to get this again." or "And will be unable to progress."

 

While that may not sound like coercion in your book because of your own "free will", there are others out there with far less strength of will, even an actual addiction, hence why it's called addiction. Let's ramp up the stakes in this formula, shall we? Just, all the way up, as bad as it can get.

 

We want SEX, if you don't give into our demands you will not get the money you need to get high.

 

So in this scenario we have a crack addict, and a man praying upon said addict. Sure, the addict could say no, that would be the logical thing, but addictions are a powerful thing, there's a reason they're often compared to chains, hell, there's a reason they're called "vices". When an addiction comes into play it's no longer a matter of "free will". You do this and you get what you want, you don't and you suffer. That is coercion.

 

Let's ramp it up even higher.

 

We want MONEY, if you don't give into our demands we will kill your daughter.

 

This is coercion, right? We can all agree on that? Well, this is still a matter of "free will". You CAN let that little girl die. It's still a matter of weighing the benefits and punishments from giving into something, and choosing what you feel is best. You may not feel you have a choice, much like those with an addiction, but you do actually have a choice, you can let her die.

 

So, while on a much smaller scale, Warp Portal is very much coercing it's customers into gambling, regardless of if your selective perception of reality allows you to see it or not.

 

Edit: Wanted to use "rose-tinted glasses" instead of "selective perception of reality" but I didn't think half of the forum goers would get the metaphor.


Edited by ClickClickClick, 16 August 2017 - 06:11 PM.

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#49 Ashuckel

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 03:30 AM

what the actual '-'..uck


Edited by VModCinnamon, 17 August 2017 - 07:58 AM.
Replaced, how about that?

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#50 Kusanagisama

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 07:16 AM

Well, I'm pretty surprised that your own arguments didn't make you change your opinion. You've actually compared threatening to kill someone's daughter to being competitive in a goddamn videogame... Don't you see anything wrong with this comparison alone? Well, let me comment then.

 

Influence and coerce are quite interchangeable.

 

Regardless of your opinion, coercion, while being the stronger of the words, still has the same context.

 

Wrong. Coercion is the use of or threat to make use of violence to make people do what they don't want to, influence - by any means - is the use of arguments and/or incentives to change someone's opinion about acting in one way or another. You can say that someone has the freedom to not give your purse to the thief who is pointing a gun to their head, but no one in a normal state of mind would do so. We have self preservation mechanisms in our brains that prevent us from doing so, and can only be bypassed by an abnormal state of mind (e.g. a traumatic experience) or training (military, police, etc.).

 

Let's use this formula, shall we?

 

We want _______, if you don't give into our demands _________.

 

Coercion means that one faces consequences for one's action, or lack there of. The same formula is applied in all cases of coercion, we can all agree on that right?

 

No, we can't agree with that. You can use that argument to make comerce itself illegal. The means are of extreme importance, it's way different to ask for someone's money by offering a good or service, and ask someone for money "else I'll kill you". BTW the threat by itself has no power. If I say that I'll kill you, you'll just laugh, becase I don't know who you are, where you live, etc. But if I provide some kind of proof that I can harm you, this changes. How can WP harm people that cannot control themselves by offering a chance of getting "competitivity in a videogame"? These people with no self-control harm themselves.

 

We want MONEY, if you don't give into our demands you will no longer be competitive.

 

Fits into said formula perfectly, even more so when you add in the connotation "And you may never be able to get this again." or "And will be unable to progress."

 

While that may not sound like coercion in your book because of your own "free will", there are others out there with far less strength of will, even an actual addiction, hence why it's called addiction. Let's ramp up the stakes in this formula, shall we? Just, all the way up, as bad as it can get.

 

We want SEX, if you don't give into our demands you will not get the money you need to get high.

 

So in this scenario we have a crack addict, and a man praying upon said addict. Sure, the addict could say no, that would be the logical thing, but addictions are a powerful thing, there's a reason they're often compared to chains, hell, there's a reason they're called "vices". When an addiction comes into play it's no longer a matter of "free will". You do this and you get what you want, you don't and you suffer. That is coercion.

 

Let's ramp it up even higher.

 

We want MONEY, if you don't give into our demands we will kill your daughter.

 

This is coercion, right? We can all agree on that? Well, this is still a matter of "free will". You CAN let that little girl die. It's still a matter of weighing the benefits and punishments from giving into something, and choosing what you feel is best. You may not feel you have a choice, much like those with an addiction, but you do actually have a choice, you can let her die.

 

So, while on a much smaller scale, Warp Portal is very much coercing it's customers into gambling, regardless of if your selective perception of reality allows you to see it or not.

 

Edit: Wanted to use "rose-tinted glasses" instead of "selective perception of reality" but I didn't think half of the forum goers would get the metaphor.

 
Already refuted above. What you're trying to do is compare an abnormal state of mind (addiction, which is some kind of mental disease that can and have to be treated) to pontual excesses that can be commited (someone drinking too much one night, or eating too much, or wasting too much money on OCP boxes once or a few times non-recurrently) to VIOLENCE! I'll just quote Oda again. Jesus Christ, click, just no.

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