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Dragoon and Ninja Block Rate% problems


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#1 Apocryphos

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Posted 17 September 2016 - 11:06 AM

I've pointed this out on previous posts but not on a single thread.
1. What is the problem?

The item effect block rate % are not improving my block rate & skills relating to block rate also have wrong descriptions

 

2. How is it caused or what do you think that triggered it? 
A bad patch long time ago after the block nerf splitting it into two stats block rate and block damage, a fatal error in coding somewhere is the effects block rate% do not affect item's but only the character's base rate which happens to be 0 for all character's

3. Are you able to reproduce it, if so how? 
Yes cause it just does not work at all.

4. Provide screenshot of before and after or the error msg. 

This is without the bracelet equipped * The bracelet has a SC of block rate +49%

9e5bdcf39f70af30af654d539ef7f6a3.png

This is the Bracelet's Soulcraft

df9e0bf975c6a29ec7d9f5e16b011216.png

This Is the block rate with bracelet equipped.
8b78e1d3e7d1bb4182100cad70ed9b6c.png

The skill katar blocking is also wrong.

9876badcee2cb854bef341441f5ea7e2.png

Refer to the images noting that the description says 13%. Instead katar blocking is adding 6% block damage.

3e6ac80655428a626aac44c3fa325d08.png

5. Have you figured out any temporary solution to address this problem? 
No beyond my ability as a player, only solution is to change the behavior of block rate to effect total block success rate.


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#2 Apocryphos

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Posted 17 September 2016 - 11:29 AM

There's also a severe lack of block damage% for classes pertaining  block in general.
1. What is the problem? 
Knowing the upper limit is 99%, there just aren't any ways of getting there. & on the rare chance you do block something and it happens to be when you're using a skill it cancel's w/e skill you were trying to perform.

2. How is it caused or what do you think that triggered it? 
The poorly planned block nerf that didn't apply what it was suppose to do properly instead it just destroyed the system all together.

3. Are you able to reproduce it, if so how? 
Yes the feature is just not functioning. 

4. Provide screenshot
9876badcee2cb854bef341441f5ea7e2.png Yields to3e6ac80655428a626aac44c3fa325d08.png

While lv10
2b25f3b0faf972369a445046f4455ba5.png Yields to693880fa2ed719f305c9926625226766.png

Which happens to be the absolute maximum block damage available.

5. Have you figured out any temporary solution to address this problem? 
No I have not and it's beyond my ability to do so, but fix it please.
A possible solution is adding block damage along with the block rate cards.

3d468d4ba9820c012c38144f2fe8ac42.png

 

a GIF will be added on how behavior blocking cancels skills prematurely later


Edited by Apocryphos, 17 September 2016 - 12:17 PM.

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#3 EdoMadara

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Posted 18 September 2016 - 02:29 PM

ok so i've just tried to put a lv 7 special block rate of 45% on my verdure earrings and it was a success now~

 

The problem is very similar to yours, it doesn't show up as active when i hover over the block rate scale it still reads [character total 0 block rate / max limit 3391]

 

To add to that if i look at the total block success rate AFTER a house buff of 4% block rate boost that only shows up as active even if i have the verdure earrings with the 45% block rate Equipped.  :pif:  :p_sad:  :sob: 

 

Edit: i've been trying to teach myself how to upload dragon saga in game images on this forum but i can't seem to get it to work any advice would be well accepted. :hmm:  :thx:


Edited by EdoMadara, 18 September 2016 - 02:32 PM.

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#4 5143121023173906760

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 09:34 AM

A possible solution is adding block damage along with the block rate cards.


Not 100 % sure about this.

I think block rate adds at it says, block rate. But mostely like any others stats (Evade/Critical Rate, Max HP/MP...) it only gives block rate based on your character's stat. Which not a single of us have yet.

So a better solution to this would be to either give some block rate as you level up or turning it into whatever stats calculation, or to replace cards/soulcrafts with final block rate (since it seems to perfectly work with the Home buff).
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#5 Apocryphos

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 10:24 AM

You're quoting a block damage quote not the block rate post and that solution would give other classes block which would destroy these two classes' niche. Final block rate is nice solution if they were added to katar blocking and shield mastery not into cards where every class could use it. Seeing as there are only 2 ways to get more block damage on a ninja opting out for a non elemental katar and katar blocking mastery which has a wrong description when it adds block damage instead of block rate.

Edited by Apocryphos, 19 September 2016 - 10:26 AM.

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#6 5143121023173906760

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 10:29 AM

1. I never mentionned that EVERY classes should have character block rate.

2. How come people would benefit from final evade rate whenever they don't have block damage ?
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#7 Apocryphos

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 11:48 AM

Character levels and stats gained through leveling is the similar through out the classes as mentioned you suggested that characters get a base where block rate cards could be effected if not that would be to hard to code considering just giving two classes block rate as they level maybe reajusting katar block rate to give a higher amount and have it scale with with enchant level as well.you also suggested to change sc and blockrate sc to final block rate which would give all characters block rate.

Edited by Apocryphos, 19 September 2016 - 12:01 PM.

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#8 5143121023173906760

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 12:11 PM

You also suggested to change sc and blockrate sc to final block rate which would give all characters block rate.


How come people would benefit from final evade rate whenever they don't have block damage ?


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#9 5143121023173906760

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 12:34 PM

Because yeah, you (obviously) can't block if your damage block is at 0. I've been using HB for years, and not a single time I managed to block as a sorcerer. However this allows ninjas to block hits more or less often.
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#10 Apocryphos

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 12:48 PM

You also suggested to change sc and blockrate sc to final block rate which would give all characters block rate.

How come people would benefit from final evade rate whenever they don't have block damage ?

Cause final evade rate actually makes them miss thus not flinching this isnt about evade this is about blocking final block rate however just causes them to reduce the damage without the flinch. And introducing block without block damage would only make blocking super armor by chance for other classes twin has block rate on their pos set they receive full damage because they have no block damage just they dont flinch.

Edited by Apocryphos, 19 September 2016 - 12:54 PM.

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#11 5143121023173906760

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 12:55 PM

I give up explaining.
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#12 GhostRed

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 12:59 PM

i got confused too  :p_sick:   all i know that  Block Rate %  dose not add up  .

 

i just tested that .


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#13 Apocryphos

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 02:18 PM


So a better solution to this would be to either give some block rate as you level up or turning it into whatever stats calculation

This would require coding 2 separate classes's level gain's just to accommodate for block rate.

or to replace cards/soulcrafts with final block rate (since it seems to perfectly work with the Home buff).

This introduces classes that use these soulcraft & sockets to gain a chance to block at 0 block damage which in essence is just super armor by chance.
 

How come people would benefit from final evade rate whenever they don't have block damage ?

People benefit from final "evade" rate because they dodge the damage completely.
as for block rate w/o block damage is still super armor which gives plenty of opportunity.


Edited by Apocryphos, 19 September 2016 - 02:18 PM.

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#14 5143121023173906760

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 08:04 PM

Listen up mate,

Even if you posess block rate, you can't block if your damage block is equal to ZERO.

And yes, stats calculation for specefic classes have been done for evade, aim and critical rate. So why not block rate/damage too ?

Edited by 5143121023173906760, 19 September 2016 - 08:04 PM.

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#15 Apocryphos

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 03:46 PM

Even if you posess block rate, you can't block if your damage block is equal to ZERO.

That's the first time you've explicitly mentioned this. if that is the case then capper's would be at a disadvantage and can never achieve the maximum blockrate & block damage. Which is why i suggested it on cards not through level gained, and not final block rate% but to scale off of total and not character base.

And yes, stats calculation for specefic classes have been done for evade, aim and critical rate. So why not block rate/damage too ?

This is a probably a result of different passives and different agi gains not gains of the stat themselves seeing as block rate/damage aren't affected by the 4 base stats str,int,hlt,agi.


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#16 5143121023173906760

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 04:11 PM

If that is the case then capper's would be at a disadvantage and can never achieve the maximum blockrate & block damage.


Isn't that the whole point of capping ? Like not reaching the max level for doing low level content using low level items ? Should cappers have 600 % C.Damage, 40 % Final C.Rate or 500 Movement speed ? Not really sure about that.
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#17 Agitodesu

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 04:28 PM

Block should block all damage again, this system is busted and reverting might be easier than fixing this mess.


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#18 Apocryphos

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 06:00 PM

At this point are you sure about any post? Yes cappers were not initially planned for in this game but there are hard caps for cappers that are already placed like stat cards only working until a certain level then it becomes locked out. But limiting them purely cause of level just doesnt make sense putting a cap on another cap.

Edited by Apocryphos, 20 September 2016 - 06:01 PM.

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#19 GhostRed

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 07:01 PM

At this point are you sure about any post? Yes cappers were not initially planned for in this game but there are hard caps for cappers that are already placed like stat cards only working until a certain level then it becomes locked out. But limiting them purely cause of level just doesnt make sense putting a cap on another cap.

 

1+


Edited by GhostRed, 20 September 2016 - 07:01 PM.

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#20 Popcorn

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 08:01 AM

At this point are you sure about any post? Yes cappers were not initially planned for in this game but there are hard caps for cappers that are already placed like stat cards only working until a certain level then it becomes locked out. But limiting them purely cause of level just doesnt make sense putting a cap on another cap.

 

First of all: We don't care about cappers, because capping is not intended in this game. Capping is only possible due to the penality for being dead and no game "wants" the player to die. We only "tolerate" this currently because of some flaws the game still has.

 

Also, where do you find stat cards working UNTIL a certain level? All cards are now socketable up to level 99. Are you playing a different game than I am developing for?


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#21 Apocryphos

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 09:19 AM

Also, where do you find stat cards working UNTIL a certain level? All cards are now socketable up to level 99. Are you playing a different game than I am developing for?

Please look at the cards carefully. All cards with percentage values are usable for equip level 20~85. The others do have a level requirement according to their card level:

  • 1* - Equip Level 20~85
  • 2* - Equip Level 20~85
  • 3* - Equip Level 30~85
  • 4* - Equip Level 40~85
  • 5* - Equip Level 50~85
  • 6* - Equip Level 60~85
  • 7* - Equip Level 70~85
  • 8* - Equip Level 80~85
  • 9* - Equip Level 80~85
... more to come...

 

here are hard caps for cappers that are already placed like stat cards only working until a certain level then it becomes locked out.

Allow me to rephrase this then, there is a hard cap on certain cards for example level 49 bsq cannot use certain cards exceeding 4* due to level limits hence a cap. personally I think ALL cards should follow this setup so the huge gear gaps in lower bsq could be more balanced.


Edited by Apocryphos, 21 September 2016 - 09:32 AM.

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#22 5143121023173906760

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 09:33 AM

(Un)fortunately, this applies only to a few cards. You can still use 9* HP cards which grant 12 % Max HP each. Or use C.Damage cards which also grants HP. Also back to when cards weren't the same for all equip levels, a 10* g4 card was the same as our current 4* cards, if not better.

And why are you even talking about this cap like it is unfair ? You are the one choosing to cap. And it would make no sense if you could have the same stats as a end-game player by simply capping at low level. This is how the game has always been, and I don't really see why this should change.
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#23 Apocryphos

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 09:48 AM

(Un)fortunately, this applies only to a few cards. You can still use 9* HP cards which grant 12 % Max HP each. Or use C.Damage cards which also grants HP. Also back to when cards weren't the same for all equip levels, a 10* g4 card was the same as our current 4* cards, if not better.

And why are you even talking about this cap like it is unfair ? You are the one choosing to cap. And it would make no sense if you could have the same stats as a end-game player by simply capping at low level. This is how the game has always been, and I don't really see why this should change.

Nonetheless still a cap.

I think ALL cards should follow this setup so the huge gear gaps in lower bsq could be more balanced.

I think the cap should be more restricted for cards I'm not preaching the other way, and no I don't have a capper. and thank you for completely derailing the topic. I just mentioned how adding another cap to cappers would do them wrong and then we ran off on a tangent about caps on everything.


Edited by Apocryphos, 21 September 2016 - 09:50 AM.

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#24 5143121023173906760

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 10:02 AM

You may notice that nearly everything as a cap whenever you don't reach the highest levels, except critical damage.
Even evade rate have a cap when your level is lower, so why don't you want one in block rate/damage ? I'm not pretty sure that you realise that if blocking as the same potential as what it could give in end-game if all the passives and cards would work it will make a huge impact on the cappers' PvP meta.

Also, you shouldn't be blaming others as you are the one that mentionned about cappers when I didn't.
But that's none of my business.
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#25 Apocryphos

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 10:27 AM

You may notice that nearly everything as a cap whenever you don't reach the highest levels, except critical damage.

Yes again I can deal with this mainly cause it goes along with the fact that stat wise those caps are only achieveable because they scale with the 4 basic stats.

Even evade rate have a cap when your level is lower, so why don't you want one in block rate/damage ?

Again these caps have been here since chain combos why not block rate/damage? Funny you should ask this another time

This is a probably a result of different passives and different agi gains not gains of the stat themselves seeing as block rate/damage aren't affected by the 4 base stats str,int,hlt,agi.

, cause they don't scale with the 4 basic stat's.

I'm not pretty sure that you realise that if blocking as the same potential as what it could give in end-game if all the passives and cards would work it will make a huge impact on the cappers' PvP meta.

They won't have the same potential, they'd have to sacrifice a significant amount of sockets to achieve what a end game player can achieve. the impact would be less mage/summoner.

Also, you shouldn't be blaming others as you are the one that mentionned about cappers when I didn't.
But that's none of my business.

I would also appreciate it if you stayed out of my business, plus spoon-feeding stats mainly cause of level isn't exactly hard but what can i expect from this community. Player's should work for these stats like increasing there shield mastery / katar blocking passives.


Edited by Apocryphos, 21 September 2016 - 10:29 AM.

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