44 replies to this topic

[Feuer]

 

My point stands.

 

 

[OshOsh]

its tough for a spear champ for being the main tanker,but the dmg receive is outrageous 

[Cortiz]

I totaly agree, champion's are not the only class that's not welcome in HOO.

 

Pritty much all melee classes seem to have trouble with this, the dammage is insane and as OshOsh said; outrageous!

I have noticed that if more then one player stand to close to the boss (Example 5-10 meters) It's almost a guarantee he will use the big AOE splash damage which seems to be his strongest attack.

(I said the AOE is his strongest attack, but it's actualy the burn damage that comes from the AOE ground hit)

 

It's also pritty weird that he could use the AOE attack 2-3 times in a row wich is nearly impossible to heal if you dont use purify to get rid of that Insane burn damage and sometimes he doesn't cast it for minutes or none at all.

 

 

I feel this should be looked into to give every class a fair chance to do some decent damage on the boss

[Feuer]

Another issue is, he spams purify on himself, and he'll do it over and over, [stacking melee attacks] that don't show for 2-3 cycles, then he'll turn around and legitimately AoE, resulting in an instant death regardless of being a Knight or not. 

I recorded a second video of this run that I can upload for proof that Champions are not the only issue, all melee classes are being one shot or very near one shot by this boss. 

 

Something else I forgot to mention in this video or show, is that I was using the PvM Longinous Strike for a total of 33.46% AP down on the boss, and he was still one shotting us like that. 

[QueenElizabeth]

Just do a HOO run with the nice member of AdamantWings clan... and you will notice, that they don't need a knight. A spear champ is great in HOO.

Maybe you pick another team... and another strategy.

 

 

 

[Cortiz]

She does have a point, If I would go with you, you would probeley survive seing your stats and stuff.

 

But multiple melee classes would be nearly impossible to keep alive as a cleric (They need about 30k HP to decently survive the first impact of the AOE and the Burn), unless u have the unique mass purify skill to instantly remove the burn from everyone in ranged.

 

 

They could change something about the burn damage I.M.O. it's pritty short too, like 2 seconds maybe?

-Decrease the burn damage significantly.

-Increase the burn duration by a few seconds.

 

Might be a good start, and hoo would be alot more easy for all classes, and not get one shot as Feuer said.

 

Cleric there had bad timing on heals too. as you can see.

And as I have said before, sometimes he doesn't even use the AOE attack(which means no burns)

There is a variation of techniques that people have used to do dungeons, with or without cleric

 

Edited by Cortiz, 04 October 2016 - 02:47 PM.

[DarkSideOfMoon]

Thank you Maria

 

HoO King is the last somewhat challenging Boss. He should not be castrated like the others.

Nobody should expect to be successful in tanking him solo.

When your team is fragile you will die a few times. So what? don't give up!

However the main actor in the spot could definitely use some improvement to stand a few more hits.

Someone could for example refine the gear higher, use the right elemental, work on PvM defense, stack more dodge, ...

 

 

[Feuer]

I wish you all the best of luck in future runs

 

-Snip-

 

if you want my final suggestion regarding HoO, here's how it should go down.

1: Give attention to the Melee and Close-Range classes that need it. Talking about Champs, xBow Scouts and BC's [sometimes]. 

2: Once they're actually fixed, Genesis needs to PLAY* the mode, and see how it personally feels. Random qeues, and pre-grouped. [Also using a mixture of beginner, mid and high tier items]

3: Going to take a swing at him having done it, and suggest the following

 - Reduce the DoT OR make it based on a Maximum HP % of the player hit. 

 - Elongate the CD of this purify spell, to prevent invisible melee attack stacking on targets.

 - Reduce Mute duration on Sub-Bosses, as the only classes with reasonable Mute resistances are all Long range, and thus, Melee classes have no choice but to eat the Mutes.

 - Spread out some of the Guardians and Jackals. Sometimes a lure isn't possible, and their density is too high after the mitigation to AoE Damages.

 

But, none of that matters to me. It's up to you guys to fix it now. Cause I won't really bother looking into this sort of thing anymore. Cheerio. 

Edited by Dragonlark, 04 October 2016 - 04:25 PM.

[Brreezzyhill8]

yeah i found hoo is very hard to do with champions even with my spear.

 

make hoo so everyone can enjoy farming in hoo not just scouts

[Nura]

Dungeons at one point were looked down upon by some as being a child's play. Too boring, repetitive and just something one goes thru mindlessly with aoes without any strategy... So what has changed now ? Changes were made, mobs and skills wise. Bosses got tweaked too. Now HoO Boss kicks our behinds and righfully so, since he is the only one who rewards the much coveted Holy element scroll. So he is in fact worth the challenge and this is not a bad thing at all. Here is where the real strategy (if there is any) should be applied in defeating a Boss. Not by nerfing aoe damage on smaller mobs whereby most times, these can be run past thru comfortably.

 

From my own experience of going into random dgs, the only communication in the group starts and ends with a 'hi' or hello' and sometimes not even that. Unless,  if u take Into consideration all the barked out orders like, heal, res, buff, rb,  make fires and such...Communication, even in a random group is important when it comes to defeating the Boss. Yes, there is a chance that all might die in the group, multiple times. But this can happen even to a group that  goes into dungeons together regularly and is well aware of one another's play style. So let us all be realistic here. 

 

Nothing needs to be changed about the HoO Boss. Just like how we players have been somewhat forced to adjust our play style with all the so called 'balancing' , we should also learn to adapt and deal with his aggro, instead of trying to tweak him again to suit our whims and fancy. Afterall, what is a Boss without some challenges ??

 

Dungeons has never been about a single person. It has always been about teamwork. To generalise that a particular class isn't welcome in dungeons is a sweeping statement and is very unfair to players who actually play that class seriously as their main characters and are constantly on the lookout for ways to improve / maximise their potential.

 

Just my two cents worth......

 

 

Edited by Nura, 04 October 2016 - 10:31 PM.

[Cortiz]

One thing remains, the insane fast burn damage from the boss, I still think that it should be slightly changed so classes dont get oneshot without a 20-25k hp pool.

[QueenElizabeth]

I agree with Nura. And I think the HoO boss is OK, like he is.

I won't even reduce that burn damage coming from him.

You need AoE Purify on the cleric... yes. But it is not that difficult to get that.

When he starts to AoE... I use Purify, then Heavenly Grace, then I start to spam flames and use the next party heal....

Of course I am also next to the boss with the cleric.

And you can't be afk... or on another client... or just chat with friends...If the boss does AoEs and you don't react at once... all party members die.

You also have to have decent defense on all chars... pvm gear is nice. And good build is helpful too.

You can't expect to do dungeons easily, just because you are level 200+.. or maxed level.

It is more.

It is challenging.

And that's how a dungeon should be.

It is build, gear, experience, strategy... and even then sometimes it is luck.

And as Nura mentioned... it is teamwork as well.

You need to communicate... you need to be a teamplayer. you need to take care of all teammembers. Everyone has to do his job. If all act like this, you can do HoO.

 

 

[thetrangdamvn]

As I've suggested before, HOO bosses should have cool down on their skills as well.

And 1st and 2st bosses should have shorter duration on the mute.

Like seriously, 20s duration mutes without cooldown.

 

Everything will be solved with some adjustment on cooldown and duration of their skills.

 

Apart from that, their damage are fine.

[iRaphael]

She does have a point, If I would go with you, you would probeley survive seing your stats and stuff.

 

But multiple melee classes would be nearly impossible to keep alive as a cleric (They need about 30k HP to decently survive the first impact of the AOE and the Burn), unless u have the unique mass purify skill to instantly remove the burn from everyone in ranged.

 

 

They could change something about the burn damage I.M.O. it's pritty short too, like 2 seconds maybe?

-Decrease the burn damage significantly.

-Increase the burn duration by a few seconds.

 

Might be a good start, and hoo would be alot more easy for all classes, and not get one shot as Feuer said.

 

Cleric there had bad timing on heals too. as you can see.

And as I have said before, sometimes he doesn't even use the AOE attack(which means no burns)

There is a variation of techniques that people have used to do dungeons, with or without cleric

I have 18 k hp on my raider and i'm able to tank the king quite well. All you need is a couple of purify potions and decent cleric. Each time the king spins be quick to use the purify pots, it takes away the burn. 

 

And yes, i've done a ton of Hoo's with just champ/raider/cleric/scout/raider with Nura, Gigi & lijona. It was quite easy tbh, but it takes time and patience. Personally i find the little challenge interesting rather than being able to afk hit the boss.  

[Cortiz]

I would say you would be able to tank it, if you use purify potions, the burn is the thing that does the most damage

Hoo is not that hard anyway, and it's nice indeed to not faceroll something once in a while.

[Feuer]

All of your propositions are plenty good and dandy, for the veterans. The point is, this dungeon is not approachable for the new players. If it were to remain as it is, it should atleast be restricted to a 230 entry requirement, or a second 'novice' version be added that would make it more manageable for random qeue groups, and the entry level players. 

 

-"The Nerf" 

[QueenElizabeth]

All of your propositions are plenty good and dandy, for the veterans. The point is, this dungeon is not approachable for the new players. If it were to remain as it is, it should atleast be restricted to a 230 entry requirement, or a second 'novice' version be added that would make it more manageable for random qeue groups, and the entry level players. 

 

-"The Nerf" 

 

No, I don't think they should do that.

You really have to work hard to come to the point to manage that dungeon.

You need nice gear... totally pvm... with gems and  high refined... a nice build... a nice team.

Of course you are not supposed to have that from the beginning.

You have to do a lot of CoU to earn your valor gear, to farm, to try your pvm build, to get experience, to build a team.... and when you are ready... then try to do HoO... 

Edited by QueenElizabeth, 08 October 2016 - 09:31 AM.

[iRaphael]

All of your propositions are plenty good and dandy, for the veterans. The point is, this dungeon is not approachable for the new players. If it were to remain as it is, it should atleast be restricted to a 230 entry requirement, or a second 'novice' version be added that would make it more manageable for random queue groups, and the entry level players. 

 

-"The Nerf" 

 

Technically new players shouldn't rely on playing hoo. The can do CoU which is quite easy and work their way up.

 

 

 

Ps : LOOOL @TheNerf         

Edited by iRaphael, 08 October 2016 - 09:36 AM.

[Feuer]

Yes Raph, it was an intentional back handed remark at Queen's inside flaming me so she knows I'm 100% aware that she'll never agree with me even when I have legitimate reasons for my stance. 

 

If the mode is not meant for entry level dungeons, then it should be made 230 entry requirement, like I proposed, so those new people don't enter it completely unprepared. If they want to keep it as 'the end game dungeon' then it should be listed, balanced, and rewarded as such. It should be giving 230 EQ's, more Valor than the SC runs, and have the lesser items removed [especially when they can be farmed in the 'nooby CoU' modes].

 

Either way, it's doesn't apply to me at all, but it is fun to watch people argue against reason for the sole purpose of opposing someone they have a vendetta against. 

[QueenElizabeth]

Feuer this time I agree with you.

HoO is just not made for beginners.

So the rewards (Valor, Ore, Equip... )  should be more, and on a higher level.

 

Of course that does not say anything about champs in general and in particular...

 

[Feuer]

Sooo ironic that right after I say you'll never agree with my thoughts or posts, you come in and say you did, just so you can disagree with me one last time. 

[7057131117023218773]

pop corn and coke ready. I am enjoying the discussion.

[QueenElizabeth]

we just agreed... no need for popcorn and coke... unless you share with all of us. 

[7057131117023218773]

 

[mmmmaaaart]

Feuer can you please poat a picture of the stats and skill build of your champion.. Tnx.