32 replies to this topic

[HeresNatan]

Hi,

i want to have more time to do that.. theres no sense when u only can do it if you re a specific class.

 

too pitty as a game and for non rangers

[Demeris]

Unfortunately, I believe the limited time is part of the challenge.

Eventually players will find better and faster ways to beat GMT under the specific time frame. How? I don't know yet, but it's possible maybe with gears that you can obtain in the future.

[AAEM]

work for other instances too, what about faceworm? what about bako? morse cave? ET? Its not that the instance built for a specific class. But rather some classes could finish some instances way more efficient than the others even with decent set-up. Change class, or upgrade those current set-up.

[BlackMeow]

"I can't complete the quest but others can. Please increase the time limit so everybody can easily defeat an MVP that's supposed to be difficult and challenging" 

[HeresNatan]

work for other instances too, what about faceworm? what about bako? morse cave? ET? Its not that the instance built for a specific class. But rather some classes could finish some instances way more efficient than the others even with decent set-up. Change class, or upgrade those current set-up.

thats a solo instance, so ony certain classes can finish, even if you have a OP gear cause some classes has no potential to kill....

ET is a party instance...

Thats different.. tooo hard to think about differences?

Make a maestro or another weak class and try to fini-_-... 

[xMLGzus]

Make a different class and do it then?

 

Not all Instances are made for every class, if that was the case the game would not be challenging and boring. 

[AAEM]

thats a solo instance, so ony certain classes can finish, even if you have a OP gear cause some classes has no potential to kill....

ET is a party instance...

Thats different.. tooo hard to think about differences?

Make a maestro or another weak class and try to fini-_-... 

 

Too hard to think why you can't finish GMT? lol

 

Why would I need to make a weak class and try to finish it? Does this means that you cannot finish it because you are weak and you want me to be in the same position as you or? Seriously, why picked a weak class in the first place to finish an instance?

Edited by AAEM, 22 October 2016 - 08:47 AM.

[AAEM]

i want to have more time to do that.. theres no sense when u only can do it if you re a specific class.

 

too pitty as a game and for non rangers

 

Do you think, it makes more sense when a weak class able to finish GMT?     

[ROCKheir]

@AAEM: It's only fair to say that some instances are catered to specific classes, and thus other "weak" classes like performers shouldn't QQ if they can't finish, if you can name a certain instance in which these weak classes gain an upper hand over other classes. WL (a relatively "weak" class) is convenient for GMT. RKs, Rangers, GXs, are convenient for almost everything. Genes come next. Archbishops are convenient for instances filled with Demons and Undeads. What about Performers, Shadow Chasers, etc.? What instances can be claimed to be "specially made for them"? You know it's not fair for players to be forced to create certain "OP" classes that don't really appeal to their taste just to be able to finish instances.

Edited by ROCKheir, 23 October 2016 - 01:34 AM.

[EveGenesis]

So a full support class is suppose to do better than damage or equal damage to a dps class in certain instance? Even if they can be change to do some aoe or damage, look at the skill kit are they suppose to do damage? Sure if you can overgear it with billions of zeny, go ahead. I don't think the investment is worth the outcome though.

Edited by EveGenesis, 23 October 2016 - 01:54 AM.

[ROCKheir]

I dunno bout you, but I never talked about Full Support classes but Support classes with offensive builds. It's stupid to have a full-support build to even try doing instances solo. The game has to make a way for ALL classes (not all builds) to make money thru instancing. I like how GMT appears to be specially designed for WLs, a DPS class that's often looked down upon... I hope there could be a way to make instances that are specially designed to other neglected/unpopular classes, as well.

[AAEM]

I am really bad at giving examples and explaining things, my bad. My main is Arch Bishop, My 2nd main, preferably is Maestro. I got both to maxed, I loved support classes way more than anything. But, Ragnarok gave you options. And its not that they are weak or so, its just they have different purpose. I would love to finish lets say GMT on my AB, I would really love to. I know its not fair, however it is absolutely way not fair, when a support class able to do what an offensive class able to do. You can make battle AB or battle maestro, but they were meant to support. Why would trying to finish GMT on a support class and when you were not able to finish, you complained about it? I got 5 different classes that I maxed out, 2 of them are supports. Do I enjoyed playing other than supports? probably no, but will I do solo instance with my supports and hoping it will able to get the same results as what my GX,GENE,SURA,RK able to do? absolutely no. 

 

And also, as I said before, he might not be able to finish it because of his current set-up. Probably maestro with LK card will do the job. Or he is hoping to finish an instance without spending billions on support class? Why then there is a non-support classes in the first place? Even RKs or rangers, need billions to finish GMT. But how it makes any sense when a support class wanted to outdmg without spending billions while the non-support classes still have to spend billions to do it effectively.

Edited by AAEM, 23 October 2016 - 04:13 AM.

[AAEM]

if you can name a certain instance in which these weak classes gain an upper hand over other classes.

 

there is no way, weak classes will gain an upper hand over other classes. How it is possible? If the weak classes able to do it, how the other classes won't be able to finish it more efficiently? You comparing, support vs non-support. Probably an instance, where you have to heal the enemy the whole way through, might be works for AB? Otherwise, non-support classes will always get the benefit. Because, they were non-support class. 

[ROCKheir]

I understand your point. But y'know, we wouldn't make so much fuss if ALL support classes were made to not be able to finish instances solo. With the exception of monks, all 2-2 classes are the supportive counterparts of the 2-1 classes. Now how come Geneticists kick more ass than Mechas, Sorcs better than WLs? I believe all classes are given the capability to be a DPS, with supportive classes being able to do the job but in a slower pace than the actual DPS classes. It's not fair to make supportive classes not do it at all just because they're support classes, therefore asking for some leeway for these classes with regards to time limits in certain instances will do them justice.

There could be other ways to make supportive classes gain advantage over the mainstream DPS... for example: an instance where at some point some enemies are immune to ALL physical attacks while the rest are immune to ALL magic attacks. Autocast builds won't be able to autocast spells because their physical attacks will just miss, thus no chance to proc. All these mainstream classes will have to rely on magic scrolls to clear all levels and finish the instance. On the other hand, Performers can make use of Metallic Sound, Reverberation, and Improvised Song to get rid of these physically-immune monsters while Shadow Chasers can copy Magic Spells to get the job done. These classes can easily switch to Vulcan Arrow (or continue using Reverberation), and copied physical skills to dispatch the magic-immune monsters in the area. For mage classes to dispose of the magic-immune monsters, they could rely on merceneries or Stave Crasher, etc. Stuff like that.

Edited by ROCKheir, 23 October 2016 - 01:46 PM.

[HeresNatan]

there is no way, weak classes will gain an upper hand over other classes. How it is possible? If the weak classes able to do it, how the other classes won't be able to finish it more efficiently? You comparing, support vs non-support. Probably an instance, where you have to heal the enemy the whole way through, might be works for AB? Otherwise, non-support classes will always get the benefit. Because, they were non-support class. 

THERE'S NO 100% support classes

Even i pre-renewal you could kill undeads in 1 second 

RENEWALL Is a lack of inteligence, strategy, developmet in a same pack.

 

They will ever have a bennefit, but that's in a point where's RAGNAROK is leaving this game, because its nar to be another game.

RENEWAL is a 1 way game with support, AOE claasses, not all ragnarok or ragnarok servers.

JRO made different things to ensure that still ragnarok.

We didn't make nothing for this game, only allow a linear game with lack of funny.....

 

Old times when you made your own way, not obbay to follow only one way....

 

U need to undertand that ragnarok will change a lot of thins, but IDK why its too fast like a ride in a horse instead in an airplane. 

[AAEM]

 

There could be other ways to make supportive classes gain advantage over the mainstream DPS... for example: an instance where at some point some enemies are immune to ALL physical attacks while the rest are immune to ALL magic attacks. Autocast builds won't be able to autocast spells because their physical attacks will just miss, thus no chance to proc. All these mainstream classes will have to rely on magic scrolls to clear all levels and finish the instance. On the other hand, Performers can make use of Metallic Sound, Reverberation, and Improvised Song to get rid of these physically-immune monsters while Shadow Chasers can copy Magic Spells to get the job done. These classes can easily switch to Vulcan Arrows, and copied physical skills to dispatch the magic-immune monsters in the area. For mage classes to dispose of the magic-immune monsters, they could rely on merceneries or Stave Crasher, etc. Stuff like that.

 

I totally misunderstood what the OP were about. Thanks for clearing it up. I couldn't disagree with both of you. 

 

@ROCKheir, WOW!!! isn't that actually a really great idea? 

[ROCKheir]

xD Wonder if iRO could/is willing to pull that idea off tho.

[Ashuckel]

The time limit is the best part of the challenge

[EveGenesis]

I dunno bout you, but I never talked about Full Support classes but Support classes with offensive builds. It's stupid to have a full-support build to even try doing instances solo. The game has to make a way for ALL classes (not all builds) to make money thru instancing. I like how GMT appears to be specially designed for WLs, a DPS class that's often looked down upon... I hope there could be a way to make instances that are specially designed to other neglected/unpopular classes, as well.

They are full support class with a few dps skill unlike a dps with a range of dps skill and a few support. No matter how much you gear a full support with damage gear, their main role is to be a support, It is not only GMT, go try AB/Maestro ET, i'm sure you will go far, go try it in faceworm, go try it in sara memory, seal shrine, malangdo.  They can do the rest, but how efficient is it when compared to a dps, pretty sure you can see the difference

All class can earn money, then what about SN too, they are also a class, i'm pretty sure even if you put in 50b-100b into a sn gear you still can't beat gmt.  (exagerattion, if you can do it sure.)

Yes all support class can be dps but if you expect a support to do a dps job you should be disappointed by the result, unless you gear it with tons of zeny (which if you do with a dps, it can beat that support easily). Warlock is often looked down upon so? it's a dps class in the first place.

You have a good idea i guess with that suggestion but as you can see, we probably won't be getting anything like that for the next 5-6 years, we are slow on update and if you notice or watch any of their new video, it's all for dps class anyways. Hope you guys have fun for the next 5-6 years on support dps

 

I don't hate support class, i even have fun playing aspd ab but to expect them to do as well as a dps in the next 5-6 years (cause you can see that their update and stuff, we won't get anything that support class can solo easily) is just a waste of time.

Increase the time limit of gmt to 10 minute for last boss, this help the dps even more but support is still the same, how do you expect to finish the boss with 20m hp, i like to see a video of any support bring the hp down without gods/mvp to half in 5 minutes. (since dps can do it without gods mvp) (if they need god/mvp, this proof my point that you need to invest billions.) you can even increase it to 20, i find it unlikely for you to still finish it anyways. (you would run out of pots sp by getting hit a lot) (low weight). They maybe able to do it, but that is if you can prove it that they can kill or almost kill fenrir under 5 minutes~

Edited by EveGenesis, 23 October 2016 - 06:40 AM.

[Toxn]

I'll say no. Time constraint is part of the challenge, even if it's literally the only challenge GMT has. You don't ask for BMX3s to be 60 minutes because you didn't finish a TI in 30 minutes. inb4someonedoes

[KamiKali]

I can easily finish GMT on:

Ranger

Genetic

Guillotine Cross

Rune Knight

Royal Guard

Mechanic

Warlock

Sorcerer

 

I haven't been able to finish on Sura yet. Haven't tried it on Wanderer or Maestro.

 

What class do you need help on?

[ROCKheir]

They are full support class with a few dps skill unlike a dps with a range of dps skill and a few support. No matter how much you gear a full support with damage gear, their main role is to be a support, It is not only GMT, go try AB/Maestro ET, i'm sure you will go far, go try it in faceworm, go try it in sara memory, seal shrine, malangdo.  They can do the rest, but how efficient is it when compared to a dps, pretty sure you can see the difference

All class can earn money, then what about SN too, they are also a class, i'm pretty sure even if you put in 50b-100b into a sn gear you still can't beat gmt.  (exagerattion, if you can do it sure.)

Yes all support class can be dps but if you expect a support to do a dps job you should be disappointed by the result, unless you gear it with tons of zeny (which if you do with a dps, it can beat that support easily). Warlock is often looked down upon so? it's a dps class in the first place.

You have a good idea i guess with that suggestion but as you can see, we probably won't be getting anything like that for the next 5-6 years, we are slow on update and if you notice or watch any of their new video, it's all for dps class anyways. Hope you guys have fun for the next 5-6 years on support dps

 

I don't hate support class, i even have fun playing aspd ab but to expect them to do as well as a dps in the next 5-6 years (cause you can see that their update and stuff, we won't get anything that support class can solo easily) is just a waste of time.

Increase the time limit of gmt to 10 minute for last boss, this help the dps even more but support is still the same, how do you expect to finish the boss with 20m hp, i like to see a video of any support bring the hp down without gods/mvp to half in 5 minutes. (since dps can do it without gods mvp) (if they need god/mvp, this proof my point that you need to invest billions.) you can even increase it to 20, i find it unlikely for you to still finish it anyways. (you would run out of pots sp by getting hit a lot) (low weight). They maybe able to do it, but that is if you can prove it that they can kill or almost kill fenrir under 5 minutes~

A "Full Support Class" ought not to have any DPS skill in its arsenal, why? Because it's "FULL Support Class". Technically there's no Full Support Class in RO as all classes have DPS skills available in their skill trees but Full Support Builds do exist. Anyway, what we're talking about here are Support Classes geared towards DPS and I was never about making DPS Support outdamage the DPS classes but clamor for justice (take note, I said justice, not equality; they're different) for these classes that are wrongly categorized as Full-Support Classes in terms of instancing.

You're right about SNs (and my prior suggestion was also meant for them). However, this game has no mercy for expanded classes. I wish the developers treat ALL expanded classes better as much as I wish folks stop categorizing Performer classes as "Full-Support Classes" while leaving out Sage and Alchemist Classes and categorizing them as DPS classes (or DPS Support (that ironically are better than their "Pure" DPS counterparts in the DPS field)) instead.

You're right again about the attention and update part the developers and/or CMs accord to the neglected classes and the game in general. It's the reason I'm not playing the game seriously, if at all.

You're also right about the apparent impossibility of bringing the GMT final boss down within a given time frame thus the request for leniency in/lifting of time limit in GMT for the sake of these "incompetent" classes of RO to give all classes equal access and a fair chance of success in ALL solo instances. The only difference will then be the amount of time it takes to finish the particular instance. (But of course, those who main "competent" classes will dissent)

Aside: Actually RO should replace Geffen Magic Tournament with JUST Geffen Tournament. In the Manwha only those classes capable of wielding magic (and homunculi are considered a work of magic and not (pseduo) science  ) are allowed to take part in the occasion, but in-game it's not the case.

Edited by ROCKheir, 23 October 2016 - 02:55 PM.

[Nirvanna21]

The time doesn't need increasing.

[Boyeteers]

classes are meant to be played for purposes depending on your preference but for me, this is more convenient. gx for farming instances, gene/rangers for farming mvp cards, rk for farming normal cards/crimsons, sura/sc for pvp/woe. wl/sorc if you're just bored enough to 1-hitting and point clicking. mechanic for dual self destruct.

[fuyukikun]

guess there should be nightmare GMT for people who thinks current GMT is too easy.