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#1 ROCKheir

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 03:26 PM

Very good question! Yes, the Costume: Yoyo Hat will be account-bound. As for the Convention Hats that weren't account bound, I can talk to Campitor about making them so, since I understand this was a concern for many people.

Since the idea of selling off of CC Hats out of commissioned artworks, the income from which is usually greater than the money spent for commissioning an artist, is just shameless and peeves off many, is it possible that CC Hats handed out to contributors with commissioned submissions be account-bound while the ones for artists-themselves be not account-bound? I think there's more justice in that.


Edited by ROCKheir, 24 January 2017 - 12:32 AM.

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#2 KamiKali

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 04:13 PM

Why would it matter to you what people do? If you want to use an artist's artwork for the load screens, you have to ask them. If the artist has no issues with that, neither should you. There's nothing to do with shamelessness. It's just how the market works; the demand for in game items is higher than the demand for art. Using commissioned art shouldn't be valued less than drawing it themselves.

Edited by KamiKali, 23 January 2017 - 04:15 PM.

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#3 ZeroTigress

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 05:13 PM

Why would it matter to you what people do? If you want to use an artist's artwork for the load screens, you have to ask them. If the artist has no issues with that, neither should you. There's nothing to do with shamelessness. It's just how the market works; the demand for in game items is higher than the demand for art. Using commissioned art shouldn't be valued less than drawing it themselves.


I think this is precisely the issue that's being addressed with the account-bounding. Originally, your art was only implemented as a loading screen if it won forum contests. After Oda took over, the contests were changed from featuring art as loading screens to rewarding people for simply submitting art. Over time, the original intent of rewarding artists has blurred as art is now used as currency to obtain these headgears. Astra's intent to make reward items account-bound is an attempt to curb the usage of art as currency, but it does little to address the bigger problem of offering gear items as rewards.
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#4 ROCKheir

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 05:19 PM

I don't know about other artists, but as for me, I give permissions for my commissioned artworks to be submitted here under the assumption that they want the CC hat for themselves. It's all fine. But them making profit out of my efforts is a different matter. You are basically "reselling" an artist's work and that's disrespectful unless they've given you full permission to do the "reselling".
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#5 KamiKali

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 05:20 PM

I think this is precisely the issue that's being addressed with the account-bounding. Originally, your art was only implemented as a loading screen if it won forum contests. After Oda took over, the contests were changed from featuring art as loading screens to rewarding people for simply submitting art. Over time, the original intent of rewarding artists has blurred as art is now used as currency to obtain these headgears. Astra's intent to make reward items account-bound is an attempt to curb the usage of art as currency, but it does little to address the bigger problem of offering gear items as rewards.

 

I'm not talking about the new account bounded items with the load screens. The old ones shouldn't be changed. And yes, I agree that when Oda took over, having your art being featured as a load screen lost sanctity. 

 

@Rock: Harsh reality is what your intentions are when giving permission doesn't matter after the person has the item. You're not reselling artist's work when you sell a headgear. If I submit my own art, and then sell off the headgear, I'm not "selling" my artwork. I'm selling off the headgear I get from submitting to some contest of some sort, which are two completely unrelated things. The artwork that I drew or commissioned, I still have and is still mine. If you only see art as a money mechanism, perhaps you may confuse the two things, but art is art, in game items are in game. When you submit a drawing, you're not trading the drawing for items, you're giving the iRO community new load screens. Whether the CMs give something for it or not has no relevance. If they do, that's great, if they don't that's fine. But if they do, I as an artist have no control over what the commissioner does to the item, nor does the seller have control over the pricing. If the CC hats were valueless, then you wouldn't even be complaining, or calling it "shameless".

 

The only thing I believe is shameless/disgraceful is when someone steals / copies other people's art / ideas and calls it their own just so they have an easier time to get rewards.

 

A huge fraction of commissioned art doesn't even come from this RO community, so your whole zeny <-> art <-> hat argument doesn't even apply. So, the CC hats should just remain tradeable.


Edited by KamiKali, 23 January 2017 - 06:01 PM.

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#6 ROCKheir

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 07:42 PM

>@Rock: Harsh reality is what your intentions are when giving permission doesn't matter after the person has the item.

>A huge fraction of commissioned art doesn't even come from this RO community, so your whole zeny <-> art <-> hat argument doesn't even apply. So, the CC hats should just remain tradeable.

>The only thing I believe is shameless/disgraceful is when someone steals / copies other people's art / ideas and calls it their own just so they have an easier time to get rewards.

>For those who have low regard for artists and their craft, yes, that's the norm.

>That's why I said, if the artist has given you full permission to make profit out of his effort then you're good.

>Sanctimony and hypocrisy at best.

<snip>

Edited by ROCKheir, 31 January 2017 - 04:21 PM.
Not helpful to the thread.

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#7 Nirvanna21

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 08:31 PM

Just make all headgears account bound, problem solved right :X?


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#8 trainerblue

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 09:39 PM

I can understand ROCK's worries, I think.  I didn't even know the CC hat was not character-bound, though.  :heh:  Thought that's why you list a name in your post.

However, if there are some new account bound and some old non-account bound CC hat on the server, it might be bad.  :p_swt: It should probably be all the same, no matter what they decide to do.

And if you want to gift it, even as account bound, can't you just list the friend's name in your post?


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#9 Xellie

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 08:15 AM

As someone who draws their own art.... I'd rather be able to trade the reward between my accounts....

not be punished for the underhanded goings on of others.


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#10 ChakriGuard

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 02:50 PM

And if you want to gift it, even as account bound, can't you just list the friend's name in your post?


That is absolutely doable. Just have to ask that friend to give you zeny. Will be troublemsome though if a hat buyer is actually not your friend (and most likely he won't be hahaha). Then risk is now involved lol
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#11 trainerblue

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 02:58 PM

That is absolutely doable. Just have to ask that friend to give you zeny. Will be troublemsome though if a hat buyer is actually not your friend (and most likely he won't be hahaha). Then risk is now involved lol

 

Ah I see, I was thinking more gifting without payment, such as birthday.  But that makes sense.  I never thought of selling a hat I get from an art event, I'm too proud of winning it lol.

I thought it might be a solution, if they really do make it account bound in the future.  I don't mind what they decide.


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#12 ROCKheir

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 05:10 PM

As someone who draws their own art.... I'd rather be able to trade the reward between my accounts....

not be punished for the underhanded goings on of others.

Hence the suggestion that commissioned arts will receive account-bound version of prizes while artist-themselves will receive the non account-bound.


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#13 Nirvanna21

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 05:28 PM

But isn't the point of submission to obtain an item? Not make a profit?


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#14 ROCKheir

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 06:28 PM

Yes. The purpose of making the prize not account-bound for artist-themselves is the convenience in transferring the item from one account to another and if they so decide to sell it, then I don't think there's any problem with that. It's after all a product/result of their own sweat and creativity and thus they reserve the right to do whatever they will to it.


Edited by ROCKheir, 24 January 2017 - 06:29 PM.

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#15 mungmungah

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 08:15 PM

i hope they can make the prize looks cooler tho...like scarf or something like that :D


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#16 Demeris

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 08:51 PM

Or maybe we should forget loading screens altogether and use Creative Convention Hats as participation prizes in art/community contests.

It's 2017. It doesn't take 10 seconds to load through a loading screen anymore (for most players). People are using these events to just get creative convention hats to either sell or put them on alt characters for the bonus +1 int and dex (which is useful for insta casting).

RO is the ONLY game I've seen that still does this stupid loading screen stuff. Look at other MMOs, all of them use their own official art to promote the game and put in a "DID YOU KNOW?" blurb for advices given to players that do take a longer time than usual to load.

I suggest removing this necessary upkeep with these loading screen submissions. Just edit and use official art.


Edited by Demeris, 24 January 2017 - 08:53 PM.

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#17 Nirvanna21

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 09:21 PM

These are being made purely for profit as opposed to the prize in some cases. That's the only real reason why people would be opposed to account binding a hat.

 

There are ways around the account sharing part :U


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#18 CMAstra

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 04:11 PM

Thank you to VMod Avocado for moving these posts and making a separate thread.

 

Hello everybody! Thanks for your responses, it's been very interesting to read through. I appreciate that you are all so passionate about the hats! It's been a tough thing to think about since many of you have good points already, but here's what I've decided to do with the Creative Convention Hats:

 

  • All Creative Convention Hats will remain as optional participation prizes for the general loading screen thread.
  • All available colors of the hat will be account-bound starting mid-February.
  • When claiming your monthly load screen prize, you may request to have the hat placed on a different character/account (ie your alt, your friend's character, etc).
  • There will be no requests granted to retroactively move hats given before today.

 

I wanted to keep the integrity of the prize aspect of these hats, and since all future hats from the load screen contests will be account bound, these will be too. After all, two of the colors are already bound, and I would rather have them all match than not.

 

I'll give everybody about two weeks to situate their hats to where they want them to stay before I make the request to Campitor to have them bound.

 

Thanks again for your input everybody!


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#19 ROCKheir

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 04:25 PM

A decision not much of an incentive for artist-themselves but alright. Thank you for your time, CM.
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#20 KamiKali

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 04:28 PM

LOL ggnore

 

S> my 10 or so cc hats before they're account bound !!!!1111one

 

before -> can trade around, use on alts, lend to friends

now -> account bound / useless \ o /


Edited by KamiKali, 31 January 2017 - 04:30 PM.

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#21 Myzery

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 04:29 PM

Thank you to VMod Avocado for moving these posts and making a separate thread.

 

Hello everybody! Thanks for your responses, it's been very interesting to read through. I appreciate that you are all so passionate about the hats! It's been a tough thing to think about since many of you have good points already, but here's what I've decided to do with the Creative Convention Hats:

 

  • All Creative Convention Hats will remain as optional participation prizes for the general loading screen thread.
  • All available colors of the hat will be account-bound starting mid-February.
  • When claiming your monthly load screen prize, you may request to have the hat placed on a different character/account (ie your alt, your friend's character, etc).
  • There will be no requests granted to retroactively move hats given before today.

 

I wanted to keep the integrity of the prize aspect of these hats, and since all future hats from the load screen contests will be account bound, these will be too. After all, two of the colors are already bound, and I would rather have them all match than not.

 

I'll give everybody about two weeks to situate their hats to where they want them to stay before I make the request to Campitor to have them bound.

 

Thanks again for your input everybody!

 

This does nothing to alleviate the issue. People will still sell their prizes if you let them pick the character they want it on after they "win" or are eligible to receive a prize.
All you're doing is effectively punishing people with alts. We went through this before and Oda decided to do the same thing you're proposing, but then changed it back for the creative hats because it just doesn't make sense.


A decision not much of an incentive for artist-themselves but alright. Thank you for your time, CM.

 

There should be no incentive other than you getting a hat, that's the point.

You're essentially whoring your art out for zeny and that's wrong.


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#22 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 04:31 PM

Thank you to VMod Avocado for moving these posts and making a separate thread.

 

Hello everybody! Thanks for your responses, it's been very interesting to read through. I appreciate that you are all so passionate about the hats! It's been a tough thing to think about since many of you have good points already, but here's what I've decided to do with the Creative Convention Hats:

 

  • All Creative Convention Hats will remain as optional participation prizes for the general loading screen thread.
  • All available colors of the hat will be account-bound starting mid-February.
  • When claiming your monthly load screen prize, you may request to have the hat placed on a different character/account (ie your alt, your friend's character, etc).
  • There will be no requests granted to retroactively move hats given before today.

 

I wanted to keep the integrity of the prize aspect of these hats, and since all future hats from the load screen contests will be account bound, these will be too. After all, two of the colors are already bound, and I would rather have them all match than not.

 

I'll give everybody about two weeks to situate their hats to where they want them to stay before I make the request to Campitor to have them bound.

 

Thanks again for your input everybody!

What do people do if they already have the hat being offered and have more than enough CC hats? Eventually people get more than 1 CC hat with nothing to do with it.


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#23 ROCKheir

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 04:37 PM

There should be no incentive other than you getting a hat, that's the point.

You're essentially whoring your art out for zeny and that's wrong.

LOL. Here we go again. But tell you what? As an artist, I do art for whatever purpose I want. If it's just for the sake of it, for contributing to the community, for show off, for challenge, for profit, etc, I can do whatever for whatever and you have no say about it. I dedicate time, effort, and creativity for it and thus I'm entitled to do whatever I want with what I get out of it. Thank you very much.
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#24 ZeroTigress

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 04:48 PM

Rock, didn't you get 20b for a hat recently? Your hats should be something you get as a trophy, not something you cash in on. It's sad really because people do have multiple accounts.


It doesn't help that certain headgears are exclusive to art contests. When the initial rewards were just the Creative Convention hats, it was fine. But once other headgears got added to the mix, I knew it would eventually lead to art becoming another iRO currency. It's no coincidence the amount of commissioned artwork submitted by non-artists skyrocketed when non-Creative Convention hats got offered.

But it is what it is. Welcome to Kafra Shop: Art Edition, where the currency is art instead of KP.
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#25 Myzery

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 04:50 PM

LOL. Here we go again. But tell you what? As an artist, I do art for whatever purpose I want. If it's just for the sake of it, for contributing to the community, for show off, for challenge, for profit, etc, I can do whatever for whatever and you have no say about it. I dedicate time, effort, and creativity for it and thus I'm entitled to do whatever I want with what I get out of it. Thank you very much.

 

No, I am not saying you're not entitled to getting paid for your efforts, but the point of these rewards are for you to keep them and enjoy them.

You personally made over 20b from a single headgear and recently sold your white lily for 10b.

That should never happen.


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