51 replies to this topic

[Apocryphos]

With the recent implementation on Hard Cap's here are some compelling facts why you shouldn't play destroyer.

Reason #1 Weapons Bow vs CrossBow

• Bow's are faster and Crossbow's are slower.
• 270%<300%
• Sentinel with faster weapons gets higher attackspeed cap. Bow Chain Combo's are faster than Crossbow chain combo's at same attackspeed.

Reason #2 Crowd Control

• Sentinel has useful traps that stay on the field.
• Destroyer has 1 small flash bang that prematurely detonates.

Reason #3 Summoned Skills

• Destroyer's Auto Shot System is garbage.
• Sentinel's Tesla outperforms and has actual use.

Reason #4. Awakening Skills

• Ice Shower vs Particle beam
• Ice shower has more hits for elements to proc.
• Self Bomber Knocks down while Wired Action pulls and stuns.

Reason #5 Sniping vs Sharp Shooting

• Sniping vs Sharp Shooting
• Sharpshooting doesn't knockdown /launch
• Sniping ruins locks.

Reason #6 Weapon Mastery's

• Sentinel gets total% attack bonus, Destroyer does not.

Reason #7 Critical Rate

• Destroyer Focus + Crux vs Aiming + Weakness Detection
• Sentinel gets FCR Destroyer does not.

Reason #8 Anti Air Shot

• Sentinel does not get a damage reduction of -70% for using AAS
• Destroyer does.

Reason #9 Passives

• Destroyers has a burn passive that depletes mp where mp pots are allowed everywhere.
• Sentinel has a passive that makes there x-spam pierce through enemies.

Reason #10 X-spam

• Pierce x-spam vs random shot x-spam
• Pierce x-spam has more hits than random shot x-spam on single target and group

 

^{2 REASONS TO PLAY DESTROYER}

^{1. Destroyer can cure one status infliction with Atropine! Repetitive use results in to -hp% demerits!}

^{2. We hit higher with sniping! Max damage on people with mspd gear is 10k+, For PoS below ~below 5k.}

 

Edited by Apocryphos, 08 March 2017 - 05:59 PM.

[FeintsSiphon]

PvP balance done by non PvP-er.

[Onyzer]

I was going to create the same kind of topic, but you've said everything and perfectly. Still waiting for the classes balancing... 

[ohsnap]

snipe hits grounded characters at least :/

[GogAcc]

3rd reason to play destroyer : Very sligthly higher bonus on attack speed with Adrealine.

[TurtleTuber]

Sentinels need to stun/ net their opponents to be able to deal good dmg. Destroyer not.

[eyes2kill]

With the recent implementation on Hard Cap's here are some compelling facts why you shouldn't play destroyer.

Reason #1 Weapons Bow vs CrossBow

• Bow's are faster and Crossbow's are slower.
• 270%<300%
• Sentinel with faster weapons gets higher attackspeed cap. Bow Chain Combo's are faster than Crossbow chain combo's at same attackspeed.

Reason #2 Crowd Control

• Sentinel has useful traps that stay on the field.
• Destroyer has 1 small flash bang that prematurely detonates.

Reason #3 Summoned Skills

• Destroyer's Auto Shot System is garbage.
• Sentinel's Tesla outperforms and has actual use.

Reason #4. Awakening Skills

• Ice Shower vs Particle beam
• Ice shower has more hits for elements to proc.
• Self Bomber Knocks down while Wired Action pulls and stuns.

Reason #5 Sniping vs Sharp Shooting

• Sniping vs Sharp Shooting
• Sharpshooting doesn't knockdown /launch
• Sniping ruins locks.

Reason #6 Weapon Mastery's

• Sentinel gets total% attack bonus, Destroyer does not.

Reason #7 Critical Rate

• Destroyer Focus + Crux vs Aiming + Weakness Detection
• Sentinel gets FCR Destroyer does not.

Reason #8 Anti Air Shot

• Sentinel does not get a damage reduction of -70% for using AAS
• Destroyer does.

Reason #9 Passives

• Destroyers has a burn passive that depletes mp where mp pots are allowed everywhere.
• Sentinel has a passive that makes there x-spam pierce through enemies.

Reason #10 X-spam

• Pierce x-spam vs random shot x-spam
• Pierce x-spam has more hits than random shot x-spam on single target and group

 

^{2 REASONS TO PLAY DESTROYER}

^{1. Destroyer can cure one status infliction with Atropine! Repetitive use results in to -hp% demerits!}

^{2. We hit higher with sniping! Max damage on people with mspd gear is 10k+, For PoS below ~below 5k.}

That's about right:  destroyers gotten destroyed xd. Easy fix would be to make the tank faster with firing cannon balls do stun when hit (crowd control), gatlin gun been able to hit farther out with increase of 30% damage (combo chain) and rocket been able to be instant (anti-jump)because the way it is now is practically useless.

Edited by eyes2kill, 10 March 2017 - 10:51 AM.

[eyes2kill]

PvP balance done by non PvP-er.

 

That's about right, I heard they only use the priest xd. And there goes the best unity set, straight into the pile of useless garbage (xd) at 270 you only need cards to reach it, soooooooooooo........ time for a whole new set xd, too bad best unity set is soulbound lmao.

[Popcorn]

You are aware that not a single skill has been changed of any class? You want to tell us that only the speed cap makes a class unusable? That implies that the game breaking behavior of this class due to the high speed was more impacting than we ever thought. This was considered as an OP class - just due to the game breaking behavior? I remember that people told us that the sniping skill is way too OP for PvP and should be adjusted. And now you want to tell me that just because this class is "slower" the skill is suddenly not OP any more even though AS and MS has not any impact on this skill? Very interesting.

 

Also no one complained when all classes were uncapped in speed and could have all the same OP speeds. No matter if it was Invoker, Gladiator, Thief etc.

 

Another interesting point is that there are opposite opinions on this class posted in 2 different topics from different persons. 

 

People, these are interesting statements. Thank you for your input. We will take your input into account for future decisions.

 

Have a nice weekend!

 

[eyes2kill]

You are aware that not a single skill has been changed of any class? You want to tell us that only the speed cap makes a class unusable? That implies that the game breaking behavior of this class due to the high speed was more impacting than we ever thought. This was considered as an OP class - just due to the game breaking behavior? I remember that people told us that the sniping skill is way too OP for PvP and should be adjusted. And now you want to tell me that just because this class is "slower" the skill is suddenly not OP any more even though AS and MS has not any impact on this skill? Very interesting.

 

Also no one complained when all classes were uncapped in speed and could have all the same OP speeds. No matter if it was Invoker, Gladiator, Thief etc.

 

Another interesting point is that there are opposite opinions on this class posted in 2 different topics from different persons. 

 

People, these are interesting statements. Thank you for your input. We will take your input into account for future decisions.

 

Have a nice weekend!

 Movement speed still too high, although great improvement from were it was, capping did some good. There is no easy anwer for MS cause it's all depended on set and level. At 400 during bsq, which is empty now, only a few classes are able to reach it based on sets and not all clases are able to reach 400 (FACT). The best solution could of been 375 highest specially for those in low level bsq or make socket cards attain MS instead of attack speed, because as of now it become useless for IM sets. BTW recommend removing soulbound for best unity set and devil's AGI sets (the 2 most expensive and highest desired sets), they are practically tombstones now xd.

Edited by eyes2kill, 10 March 2017 - 11:22 AM.

[Nobbye]

Movement speed still too high, although great improvement from were it was, capping did some good. There is no easy anwer for MS cause it's all depended on set and level. At 400 during bsq, which is empty now, only a few classes are able to reach it based on sets and not all clases are able to reach 400 (FACT). The best solution could of been 375 highest specially for those in low level bsq or make socket cards attain MS instead of attack speed, because AS now become useless for IM sets. BTW recommend removing soulbound for best unity set and devil's AGI sets, they are practically a tombstones now xd.

I can pay the soulbound remover scrolls and take those "useless" sets from taking your inventory space.

[Popcorn]

BTW recommend removing soulbound for best unity set and devil's AGI sets, they are practically tombstones now xd.

 

Why? If they're tombstones no one wants them anymore - so why remove the soulbound? Like you said no one wants them anymore.

Btw, since when Unity Set has no CD and AGI stats? Since when is it Devil's Set of Attack Speed? Hm... in the past people wanted the Devil's Set of Agility for the Agility not for the Attack Speed. But for sure it's everyone's own choice which sets they prefer.

 

If you don't want it make a good trade with someone who pays the soulbound removers for you. I am sure someone will take the tombstones... there are people who like the look of tombstones... Also there are people out there who have a usage for tombstones.

 

Btw... I am playing only invoker actively - but that does not mean that people I work with do play only invokers. 

Again, this was no balance patch - that has been stated several times - it was a fix to a game breaking behavior and for your information the upcoming class balance is not only done by me since I only play invoker. 

[eyes2kill]

I can pay the soulbound remover scrolls and take those "useless" sets from taking your inventory space.

 

 Correct, but who's goin to buy them? It will be a waste of IM investments (I have 8x sets of best unity, paid alot on those IM spinning wheel and here we are now, "OMG", who's going to buy them now. Lol......................... 

[Popcorn]

 Correct, but who's goin to buy them? It will be a waste of IM investments (I have 8x sets of best unity, paid alot on those IM spinning wheel and here we are now, "OMG", who's going to buy them now. Lol......................... 

 

People who want Agility and CritDmg for example or still need the ATK speed because they haven't reached the caps.

If you don't know, we have a forum section to announce trades. Maybe you can sell them here: https://forums.warpp...rn-marketplace/

 

Edit: Btw, the term for the "IM Spinning Wheel" is Mixboard (or Bigwheel if you're talking about the W-Coin "wheel").

 

 

 

[Coolsam]

Summoned Skills and you didn't mention the beauty that is VULCAN!? High Weapon Damage calculation, wombo potential with Magnet and freezes. Don't tell me that max element damage + PoS Hero Crossbow w/ Solars + Max CD won't have Vulcan do high damage on something stuck from support.

[Precrush]

Just counting the stats best unity gives here:

 

Crit rate: +80%

Final Critical success rate: +5.0%

Critical damage: +10.0%

Atk speed: +65.0%

Movement speed: +12.0%

Aim rate: +12.0%

Final evade rate: +5.0%

Max Mp: +12.5%

Max HP: +12.5%

Health: +30

Intelligence: +30

Agility: +45

Strength:  +25

Casting speed: +15.0%

Enchant and soulcraft success rate: +4.5%

Physical and magical damage drop: +6.0%

 

You point me an IM set build that beats that sort of variety combined with the huge atk speed boost. Could stop making everything sound like the end of the world, jeez.

 

 

 

[TurtleTuber]

It wasnt a patch made for the reason of balancing, but it caused imbalance in he world of dragonsaga. Eyes2kill is wrong, every class is able to reach 400 MS (fact). Alone the combination of IM items will and up in an over 100% MS boost. <- (IM Sets)

 

Why complaining about Destroyer? Idk. 270 atk speed is not too bad, you can kite with random shot and snipe. When you cast autoshot system you get superarmor, which let you escape some combos. There are classes which suffer more from this hard cap.

 

What Mr. Popcorn says is also wrong: Also no one complained when all classes were uncapped in speed and could have all the same OP speeds. No matter if it was Invoker, Gladiator, Thief etc.

 

Ofc classes had not the same MS speed, Ninjas and archers were way faster alone through skills but also through set combination fasterthan Mages, DK's and so on. Same goes for atk speed for the different classes. I dont get the point there.

 

I am pretty dissatisfied with the patch, i expected a better solution where classes kept their natural difference in MovementSpeed and atk speed.

 

Many people are complaining here, most of them about the wrong stuff. Like that one guy in the other Thread who said that the only class that suffers from the patch is Invoker because of the atk speed, even tho Invoker got boosted with this patch like crazy. 270% atk speed is still OP like hell thanks to the ingame macro you wont notice a great difference. Some people just have no clue about PvE and PvP and cause with their complaints attention on the wrong points which might lead to false changes because the Staff team might not know it better since most of them are only PvE-based and have to listen to other players to make changes in PvP.

Edited by TurtleTuber, 10 March 2017 - 12:13 PM.

[HakannBlast]

now lets compare destroyer pve to sentinel pve 

 

thats right they counter balance each other like it should be senti for pvp destroyer for pve  unlike over/goon invoker/sorceror ninja/savage that are a balance mess on that regard

 

 

Edited by HakannBlast, 10 March 2017 - 12:05 PM.

[TurtleTuber]

I dont like destroyer in PvE since it has less crowd control. In PvP both classes were monsters before the patch.

[Precrush]

 Like that one guy in the other Thread who said that the only class that suffers from the patch is Invoker because of the atk speed, even tho Invoker got boosted with this patch like crazy. 270% atk speed is still OP like hell thanks to the ingame macro you wont notice a great difference. Some people just have no clue about PvE and PvP and cause with their complaints attention on the wrong points.

If you mean me mate, I never said only invokers suffer from this. I said it's not good practice to use caps for class balance and especially in the case of this atk speed cap it's dumb cause like you say, it makes very little difference. If x-spam does too much damage, I'm sure there's some stat other than atk speed that could be changed to balance that...

 

 

Edited by Precrush, 10 March 2017 - 12:17 PM.

[HakannBlast]

If you mean me mate, I never said only invokers suffer from this. I said it's not good practice to use caps for class balance and especially in the case of this atk speed cap it's dumb cause like you say, it makes very little difference. If x-spam does too much damage, I'm sure there's some stat other than atk speed that could be changed to balance that...

 

 

the healer should not have 1 of the highest damage to begin with was just bad habit from this game ...

[eyes2kill]

Why? If they're tombstones no one wants them anymore - so why remove the soulbound? Like you said no one wants them anymore.

Btw, since when Unity Set has no CD and AGI stats? Since when is it Devil's Set of Attack Speed? Hm... in the past people wanted the Devil's Set of Agility for the Agility not for the Attack Speed. But for sure it's everyone's own choice which sets they prefer.

 

If you don't want it make a good trade with someone who pays the soulbound removers for you. I am sure someone will take the tombstones... there are people who like the look of tombstones... Also there are people out there who have a usage for tombstones.

 

Btw... I am playing only invoker actively - but that does not mean that people I work with do play only invokers. 

Again, this was no balance patch - that has been stated several times - it was a fix to a game breaking behavior and for your information the upcoming class balance is not only done by me since I only play invoker. 

 

XD. Both sets gives you same attack speed 65%, although devil set state 55% as set, is actually 65% due to glove having 10%  more on it, which unity don't have. I will buy soulcraft removers for them, to me both the sets are worthless now xd. Will go crt and health on sets. Anyways, is getting out of hand now, it seems people have different opinions xd.

[eyes2kill]

It wasnt a patch made for the reason of balancing, but it caused imbalance in he world of dragonsaga. Eyes2kill is wrong, every class is able to reach 400 MS (fact). Alone the combination of IM items will and up in an over 100% MS boost. <- (IM Sets)

 

 

 

 

Psst.... read what I stated is based on level sets, yes all classes are able to reach 400, but it depends on their level set. Here is an example try getting a Harley 40s for bsq at 400 ms range. Won't happened, but Harley at level 60's up are able to get over 500 ms (get the point?). Is all depend on set stat and level cap.

[eyes2kill]

Just counting the stats best unity gives here:

 

Crit rate: +80%

Final Critical success rate: +5.0%

Critical damage: +10.0%

Atk speed: +65.0%

Movement speed: +12.0%

Aim rate: +12.0%

Final evade rate: +5.0%

Max Mp: +12.5%

Max HP: +12.5%

Health: +30

Intelligence: +30

Agility: +45

Strength:  +25

Casting speed: +15.0%

Enchant and soulcraft success rate: +4.5%

Physical and magical damage drop: +6.0%

 

You point me an IM set build that beats that sort of variety combined with the huge atk speed boost. Could stop making everything sound like the end of the world, jeez.

There is too many set mixed that beats those stats (Fact). The huge AS you speak off is not need it, you can easily get up to 270 AS by using socket cards. My summoner at 524 AS (waste of unity), priest 384 as (waste unity), destroyer 342, get the point? As not longer use-full as an IM item, you be better off combining 6 parts (2 parts of each god set different) god set at 90 hp, 75 str, 90 int. and still have 4 extra slot to do what you want to do with it ie crt.as and so on.

Edited by eyes2kill, 10 March 2017 - 01:14 PM.

[Precrush]

There is too many set mixed that beats those stats (Fact). The huge AS you speak off is not need it, you can easily get up to 270 AS by using socket cards. 

You can go with builds that get more of a specific thing, like health or pure crit. You can't get a set with as good of a complete package though.

 

If you go with atk speed socket cards you give up 120~ health or 120~ cdmg. And you'll only get around 50%~ attack speed. For example if you go atk speed sockets and health IM build, you'll get around as much health but you'll be losing on a bit of everything when compared to using the unity set.

Edited by Precrush, 10 March 2017 - 01:11 PM.