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[Concern] Loading Screens Qualification


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#51 fuyukikun

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 01:19 PM

"artists"
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#52 ShenYuel

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 04:42 PM

You all are losing the point of this discution was going, this is not about "set the hat for WP in cash shop", this is about we don't want that kind of draws in loading screens, i know im not an artist or good drawing and maybe i should'nt been talking about this but, i can recognize a good draw between bad draw as well, also i think Astra will do not set that kind of "art" in the loading screens (i guess) because really looks like... actually i don't know what looks like, but they need to be into loading screens to be rewarded, so... don't worry about if they get hats, we're talking about do not want that on loadings screens, BUT!

if they account bound the prizes, this is what we gonna have on our loading screens every month, beacuse good artist and nice draws gonna be less, because the good artist gonna stop submit since they can't get zeny by sell their own Hats / prizes.

it's like to give you an exemple: "oh yeah imma do 4 submits to get 4 colors hats and then... what?"

Also... there can be good draws by using MSPaint too, not this formless stuffs.


Edited by ShenYuel, 01 April 2017 - 04:45 PM.

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#53 Demeris

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 05:56 PM

They can take away the MS paint, then what about commission entries?

Your idea sounds fine when RO did this years ago. Look at first page, most of them got hats by submitting commissions. People will just flock to doing that instead.

It's about the hats, it's why they're doing it. They're not interested in getting their MS paint entry onto the loading screen.

Edited by Demeris, 01 April 2017 - 06:34 PM.

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#54 Romanov90

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 06:55 PM

Actually reading some of the comments, I totally forgot about the commissioned entries because I was too focused on some of the art entries... yes, Demeris you are right.

I don't think it's fair for some to get rewards for something they didn't do.

 

I'm fine with the idea of official artworks since the loading is fast anyway but we're loosing the spirit of contributions and creativeness of the community which I loved years back. I think the prizes were a way to get people to contribute more but alas it seems like a lot of them are abusing the system (although we don't know for sure, but some are obviously trolling for the gear) so I think we should just get rid of prizes. If not enough artwork to put up on updates, then just place it with official art placeholders.

 

I think prizes should be for events like contests or Valentine's etc if anything.

 

if you are saying that submitting comissions should not be allowed, and its about getting the hats..

it is better to submit a commissioned artwork, rather than a 3 minutes MS paint images, at least by commissioning artworks, they know they at least need to submit at least a standard quality artwork, rather than submitting MS paint doodle.  :heh:

 

if you are talking about effort, man you think zeny rains down to their character ? they work for those zeny man.  :ani_shy:

 

POINT: They know they are not good at drawing, but they want the hat, so they find us those who can draw slightly better, to get them hats ( they also recieved full permission from the artist ).  :ok:

 

i dont see the problem here, they farmed, played instances, go ET, to gather zenies, and get an artist to make them art that will get them the hat they desired.   :ani_money:


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#55 rueth

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 07:25 PM

if you are saying that submitting comissions should not be allowed, and its about getting the hats..

it is better to submit a commissioned artwork, rather than a 3 minutes MS paint images, at least by commissioning artworks, they know they at least need to submit at least a standard quality artwork, rather than submitting MS paint doodle.  :heh:

 

if you are talking about effort, man you think zeny rains down to their character ? they work for those zeny man.  :ani_shy:

 

POINT: They know they are not good at drawing, but they want the hat, so they find us those who can draw slightly better, to get them hats ( they also recieved full permission from the artist ).  :ok:

 

i dont see the problem here, they farmed, played instances, go ET, to gather zenies, and get an artist to make them art that will get them the hat they desired.   :ani_money:

 

I don't deny the work it takes to get the zeny to commission, I am bringing up a point that it's still in the same case as the no effort part of it if we are talking about the unsightly MS paint ones. As Demeris pointed out there are some other concerns about commissioned entries as well. Besides, some people get commissions because they wanted it, not because "oh I will commission this person so I can get a hat from loading screen".  Submitting it to loading screen is just icing on cake and a second thought. (one example was the art was drawn aug 2016 but it was submitted as loading screen by commissioner jan 2017). As long as it's within a year, anyone can dig up a commission and submit it. It's not a bad thing really, but just talking about all aspects of fairness, that's all.

 

I think it just all comes down to

x no reward is given (like before)

= less unsightly entries (probably)

 

Then by all means artists should submit just because they want to and commissioners can submit whatever cool art they got - no drama. Although maybe we shouldn't care, but like others pointed out, the ones who are really putting effort to contribute to the game feels less motivated to see those who don't try get rewarded.

 

You know what, this is getting to more complicated areas than it needs to. All in all before the point was built up upon I was just... weirded out by some of the entries and agreed that there should be some qualifications to accept certain ones.

 

>We're calling it MS paint because it's what they use, but in no way if you use MS Paint it means you are bad at art. It is just a program where you can also make art. Just putting it out there for people who think if they use it it means they are making bad art. It's your skill that makes the art.


Edited by rueth, 01 April 2017 - 07:37 PM.

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#56 ZeroTigress

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 07:50 PM

There's nothing complicated about it. Back when art contests got your art featured as a loading screen, there were a lot less unsightly art because people submitted for the honor of getting featured. Once they introduced headgears into the mix, everything changed because now it's not about getting featured into the game, but getting hats that no one else could get. And now that they're giving out hats just for submitting something, the problem has compounded into the current situation we have now.

The discussion taking place here is whether we want this to continue to get worse or not. Obviously there are people who don't want things to continue spiraling into absurdity like it's doing now. A quick fix to the issue would be removing the headgear compensations entirely and turn art contests back to being in-game features (along with Facebook features, too, with Astra's Fanart Friday), but some people will be against that (which will include those that want their easy-peasy hats that they got by scratching their mouse pointers in MS Paint).

If the CMs insist on continuing to give out headgears for submissions, at the very least restrict the headgears to being prizes for winning entries only, no more than that. At least putting competition back into the events will filter out the bad submissions we've been seeing lately.
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#57 rueth

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 07:57 PM

↑ Well said. We just have to wait and see what the CMs will say.


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#58 allygator1

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 07:58 PM

I think we should perhaps walk on the minimum standard slowly towards something acceptable.

 

As is right now, I think most people can agree with that the mspaint vomit pictures are below an acceptable level in effort.  Moving the bar a little higher while still accepting commisions or whatever would be the first step.  Once things settled down then we should consider reviewing whats acceptable or not.

I am totally for players submitting commissioned artwork as long as it is credited to whoever drew it.  The problem that I foresee is players submitting "commissioned" work that really wasn't commissioned for them, but I don't think that has been an issue yet.


Edited by allygator1, 01 April 2017 - 07:59 PM.

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#59 ZeroTigress

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 08:58 PM

I am totally for players submitting commissioned artwork as long as it is credited to whoever drew it.  The problem that I foresee is players submitting "commissioned" work that really wasn't commissioned for them, but I don't think that has been an issue yet.


How will that ever be an issue if the artists are never aware that their work is being used to get rewards by someone without permission?
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#60 Myzery

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 09:48 PM

Comparing bad MS paint submissions to a "good" commissioned art is flawed.

The person would have to be gifted the art at the very least, but otherwise they are paying something for it.

The art takes time and effort from the artist.

It promotes and gives exposure to the game, especially if it's on some place like tumblr or deviant art.

The artist still gets credit 99% of the time, which promotes them too and gives them reason to open their art to everyone.


I think we can all agree that it's pretty easy to tell when someone puts forth the effort, even in MS paint. Astra just needs to weed them out with her discretion. She has an art background afaik, so she would probably be a good judge.

Some of the drawings I have no problem with, they did put in effort. Submissions from (I can't post the name because Cinnamon gets upset) for example are obvious hat grabs (he put different hidden characters for multiple hats, which circumvents the rules also)


Edited by Myzery, 02 April 2017 - 10:56 AM.
Let's leave names out of the discussion please.

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#61 rueth

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 10:14 PM

Hm.. at least from me as an artist stand point, I wasn't comparing commissioned submission art to the bad MS paint art, I was putting it as the fairness aspect of it. Of course the commissioned art is nice I have nothing against it, just some talk here made me think about it more.  From me anyway, I felt commissioners could get something out of putting art they paid for a few months back. Once again, from an individual artist's point of view. But I could understand the promotional aspect of it.

 

Like I said, it got me overthinking. It's just about art loading screen qualifications.

 

*edit: I want to clarify, that commissioned arts are OK, from me I thought it wouldn't be fair - but considering that I haven't been back in a while until now, I didn't realize that most loading screens are basically commissioned arts. Going through more backlog of the loading screen submissions I can understand the percentage of not many artists who play this game anymore. I'll take back what I said it wasn't fair prize wise.


Edited by rueth, 01 April 2017 - 10:37 PM.

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#62 yamasakai90

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 10:27 PM

Submissions from <snip> for example are obvious hat grabs (he put different hidden characters for multiple hats, which circumvents the rules also)

 

Hard to fight with God level art... we mere mortals can't appreciate the abstract and beauty of it. 

 

Honestly, they can get the prize if they want... in the long run it will devalue CC hat and be a common costume. 

 

But please please please... don't put it into the monthly loading screen, even if its just 0.5-1s, I prefer to see decent art in the loading screen. or maybe just put them for a day or a week, and the good ones for the entire month.


Edited by VModCinnamon, 02 April 2017 - 12:16 AM.
Edited in quote.

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#63 PervySageMarty

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 11:06 PM

I guess i should start baking RO themeed cakes and treats since I have a better talent at pastrywork and baking than drawing as many can see. But even I know my work would never be featured. Anyways please enjoy guys the conversation. I just wanted to insert myself into here. I do agree that the artworks sucks.

 

On a contradictive note how do we know the artist isnt just purely -_- at drawing and cant draw to save their lives? I mean they say seeing is believing but then not everything one sees with their eyes as they are can make a clear assumption, unless you can truthfully say you are seeing with "eyes unclouded".

 

Thats just me, dont mind my interference with this debate.


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#64 ZeroTigress

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 11:27 PM

On a contradictive note how do we know the artist isnt just purely -_- at drawing and cant draw to save their lives? I mean they say seeing is believing but then not everything one sees with their eyes as they are can make a clear assumption, unless you can truthfully say you are seeing with "eyes unclouded".


Hence why I advocate bringing back competition to the loading screens. At least when you're competing against other artists for loading screen features, you put effort into it rather than make little effort to be guaranteed a headgear.
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#65 PervySageMarty

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Posted 02 April 2017 - 12:36 AM

Hence why I advocate bringing back competition to the loading screens. At least when you're competing against other artists for loading screen features, you put effort into it rather than make little effort to be guaranteed a headgear.

 

I can agree to this.


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#66 yamasakai90

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Posted 02 April 2017 - 02:03 AM

I guess i should start baking RO themeed cakes and treats since I have a better talent at pastrywork and baking than drawing as many can see. But even I know my work would never be featured. Anyways please enjoy guys the conversation. I just wanted to insert myself into here. I do agree that the artworks sucks.

 

On a contradictive note how do we know the artist isnt just purely -_- at drawing and cant draw to save their lives? I mean they say seeing is believing but then not everything one sees with their eyes as they are can make a clear assumption, unless you can truthfully say you are seeing with "eyes unclouded".

 

Thats just me, dont mind my interference with this debate.

Marty try baking RO cakes and treats, take a picture, squibble some writings on it and submit it as a loading screen :D Its real life art y'all!


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#67 allygator1

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Posted 02 April 2017 - 10:18 AM

What about the following:

 

Going with a mix of art submission competition of some sort with a participation prize.

 

Each month have like 25% of the best loadscreen/whatever regardless if they're commissioned or not be eligible for the monthly hat thats tradeable or whatever.

 

All participants that do something more than vomit tier art get a participation prize of account bound creative convention hats.


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#68 ZeroTigress

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Posted 02 April 2017 - 06:56 PM

What about the following:
 
Going with a mix of art submission competition of some sort with a participation prize.
 
Each month have like 25% of the best loadscreen/whatever regardless if they're commissioned or not be eligible for the monthly hat thats tradeable or whatever.
 
All participants that do something more than vomit tier art get a participation prize of account bound creative convention hats.


How does that change anything?
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#69 VModCinnamon

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Posted 02 April 2017 - 09:44 PM

Greetings,

 

Thank you all for your input.

Based on the views here and in the received private messages CM Astra will address the issue of loading screens quality this week.

 

Going to lock this topic for the night, possibly activated in the morning with updates.

Note: Re-initiating the discussion outside the thread will not be accepted.

 

Edit: Opened, pending for updates.

 

Thank you!

 

 

 

 


Edited by VModCinnamon, 03 April 2017 - 07:54 AM.
Unlock.

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#70 allygator1

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:16 AM

better tread carefully cinnamon, less you get drawn into an unfortunate situation.   :gg:

 

Sorry, couldn't resist the opportunity.


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#71 ShinobiEX3

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 03:41 PM

hmm

hmmmmm

hmmmmmmmmm

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

There should just be a minimum lvl of artistry for sending arts for loading screens

And also a double check on people who use other arts as well. Like if you got cought sending art that you dont own and the person did not give u permission, you can never send art again, Also people who make new accounts just to send art would be immediately denied. until a certain amount of post counts or whatever.

 

hmmmm!


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#72 CMAstra

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 04:16 PM

Hello artists and other concerned citizens! Thank you all for taking the time to share your thoughts with me regarding the state of the loading screens, it means a lot to me that we have so many passionate players who care about how we present ourselves on the loading screens.

 

Based on the feedback I've been given as well as my own assessment of the matter, I have decided to implement a qualification system for the load screens. I have noticed quite a few... interesting entries being submitted, entries that I believe do not represent the best of what Ragnarok fanartists have to offer, and I would like to curate the load screens as best as I can from now on.

 

Now, I hope this does not discourage any budding artists from trying - works will definitely be determined for qualification based on effort rather than pure skill and talent alone. I always want to see our fanartists do their best, whatever that means for them :)

 

That said, I have created a new loading screen thread for Q2 entries (April-June). Please visit here:

https://forums.warpp...sion-thread-q2/

 

Thanks again!


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#73 Demeris

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 04:35 PM

 

 

 

RULES

(Please review before submitting!)

 

1. Size. Entries must be 4:3 aspect ratio to fit loading screens. The proper size for our loading screens is 640x480px and 100KB or less. If you submit anything outside of that size, it will be readjusted to fit. If you'd like to size it yourself (this is preferred), sites like this will scale down your pictures and let you set a maximum file size. 


2. Credit. You must note if you are submitting as an artist or with a commissioned work and post the name of the artist. If you're submitting commissioned art, it cannot be work that has been previously submitted to this or any other loading screen contests. It also cannot be very, very old, like done over 1 year ago. Let's keep it recent and decent  

 

3. Self-promotion. You may include your deviantart, tumblr, or personal artist website in the artwork or the submission post.

 

4. Plagiarism. Using specific elements taken from another artists work (while subject to interpretation) without attribution or acknowledgement of the inspiration can be too close to plagiarism, and may cause the artwork to be rejected. Likewise, entries with heavy use of stock imagery, clipart, and photographs will be rejected.

 

5. Frequency. Only one submission per poster per month. If you post up multiple artworks during the month, please indicate which one you would rather be included first, otherwise it will be chosen for you.

 

6Propaganda. Guild emblems in loading screen art is acceptable, but please do not turn it into propaganda or advertisement (ie: "X guild is better than Y guild!" or "Join X guild!")

 

7. Quality. While the general loading screen thread is for showcasing all fanarts and is not a contest, we expect there to be some level of quality and effort put into it. The loading screen thread is open to all honest artists and we want everybody to do their best, however, if a submission is deemed as lacking effort, it will not be included in either the loading screens or the prize pool for the month. These decisions are left to the discretion of the CMs and VMods alone. If your art is not included and you would like to contest the matter, you may PM either CM Astra or VMod Cinnamon.

 

8Post format. When submitting your artwork, please include the following information in this format:

 

2) There's no efficient way to know that without forum posters trying to police the thread and call them out on it. I can simply re-upload an artwork and claim it to be recent and you won't know the truth unless the artist themselves say so. It will be extremely difficult to regulate this.

5) Someone can just get their friends to post for them to bypass this rule.

 

7) Dangerous game you're playing here. I find that to be more work than needed but good luck.

Rules can't change people's behavior or beliefs. The most rules can do is suppress them. I think you're going to run into the same trouble due to some individuals.

Nonetheless, I hope your changes work out.


Edited by Demeris, 03 April 2017 - 04:36 PM.

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#74 ZeroTigress

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 04:35 PM

I think a good rule to have is that participants should at least have their own art thread here to qualify. That should help weed out the fakers.
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#75 ShinobiEX3

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 05:36 PM

I like outing people soo if i see a post for art. Ill just get nosy and dig around and make sure its legit.

People dont like me anyway and it makes me stronger soo, Challenge accepted


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