1914 replies to this topic

[kubikyuu]

If your statement is true, warlocks should now be wanted for Bio 4 parties nowadays, correct?
 

 

Bio4 parties already don't want GXes or Rangers, both classes you call OP. :V

 

All a Bio4 party really needs is a well geared (almost) max level DB RK, 1 Sorc for Magnetic Earth, 1 Genetic for FCP (and since the Genetic is there already he might as well kill Randel) and 1 Stringer.

1 AB for buffs heals and ress is nice to have.

Everything else is just there to leech counts or make it go faster/smoother. :v

 

(Also you can make way more exp in NCT. But hey, stick to the waiting-for-ages-game eh I mean Bio4 if you think that it has any say in how good a character is. :v  If you really do you just demoted GX and Ranger to crap-tier.)

Edited by kubikyuu, 15 July 2017 - 12:14 PM.

[Darkshneider]

I live in NCT now,its my land!! XD kill stuff quickly.I dont bother with bio

[LordYggdrasill]

I live in NCT now,its my land!! XD kill stuff quickly.I dont bother with bio

 

Or alternatively, you can make use of the EXP you gain turning in EP 16.1 repeatable quests, ie Bijou, lv.140 Animals and Prison quests. I actually leveled up close to 170 now within a month with one BMX3 per day. On the other hand, you gain Honor Tokens that can be used to purchase a Flattery Robe or enchant your Flattery Robe. Farming for Honor Tokens is a lot more fun, and it helps with leveling in the process. Grinding will be a lot more enjoyable if you dont do it for the sake of grinding.
 

[Kusanagisama]

If your statement is true, warlocks should be among the wanted classes for Bio 4 parties nowadays, correct?

 

Warlocks were already stronger than pretty much all classes with end-game gears on party compositions. Just go on and Endless Tower expedition, and you'll get pretty much most of the non-shadow MVPs (and even some of them lol). The difference is that Rangers and Genes are more flexible, and can fair better in solo play because they have less weaknesses. Also, warlocks use a ridiculous amount of zeny to get geared, while GXs and Genes keep using zeny for their skills even after fully geared, so, we're kinda even.

 

There are some things that are pretty much undoable or a real pain for warlocks (like OGH or Nidhoggur's nest), and a GX can do it easily, but that's pretty much it. There are MVPs that pretty much no other class can compete against a WL for it, but the inverse is also true, as it should be. If everyone played warlocks, it would be as bad as everyone playing genes or GXes.

Edited by Kusanagisama, 15 July 2017 - 01:13 PM.

[HattoriMasahige]

Funny thing is this hat set effect if they released it only one person in the server has the card now so the set effect would be only for him xD.

One problem some people dont realize about these jro gears is that over there u can cash shop "sealed" versions of mvp cards so things like this are viable THERE but over here a set effect like this makes 0 sense whathsoever.These items are tailored to a super cash shoppy even mvp card shop meta of game

 

at some point iRO staff and community will have to decide as well if you throw the "but i wasted 15 years of my life to have MvP cards so noone else should have who didnt waste as much as me" mentality away or accept that no new people will come to play WoE just to be punching bags of the people Im talking about.

 

juding from the way people with multiple zeny stackd accounts play the market, which is esp. easy to see with the OCP train, I wouldnt put my horses on WoEs survival tho.

Edited by HattoriMasahige, 16 July 2017 - 08:46 AM.

[CadburyChocolate]

RO's MVP system is just so bad, 0.01 drop rate for a game thats 15 years old, ofc you'd expect to stop attracting new players, creating a stup!d mentality as well to the old player. That system itself is destroying the game. Everytime a something new gets added, that old MVP system becomes the basepoint right away.

[HattoriMasahige]

unimagineable in sucessfull modern MMOs nowadays, where the focus lies in connecting people and make it appealing to play together. RO is just breeding narcistic egos who fap on their equipment advantage instead of enjoying real competition. Not because they NEED the castle drops, just because they can and its the only way to make the 1000s of hours of grinding/$$$ sinked in kafra shop seem to be worth in some kind of way.

 

10 years ago it didnt matter too much if you had a +4 unfrozen robe or a +7/+9 like the veteran does, nowadays, the gap is a lot bigger and demanding OCPs/jRO items is making this matter worse, not for rich people who dont mind if an item is 500m or 1b, but for those who give this server a try nowadays.

 

new gear is nice and is needed but if its only coming from cash shop and if its the way to balance classes now instead of actually looking into their skill set this game will die, 100%. Even faster since they felt the need to release another server while they completely crashed classic and have no idea why they did up to this day.

 

(although I like that warlocks get love, was a wiz main 13 years ago and i still think its a great class, I love utility. I couldve written this rant in a cylinder topic as well, but headgears like the one posted some pages ago annoy me a slight bit.)

 

If a class is harder to level by nature it shouldnt be made even harder for newbies just because they cant afford the gear to oneshot the monster because the class is inheritly weak if you dont bring at least 2b in gear. And the recent mdef bypass gears are all high priced, the cards as well as the cash shop items.

Edited by HattoriMasahige, 16 July 2017 - 09:19 AM.

[Kusanagisama]

unimagineable in sucessfull modern MMOs nowadays, where the focus lies in connecting people and make it appealing to play together. RO is just breeding narcistic egos who fap on their equipment advantage instead of enjoying real competition. 

 

ROFL!

 

(although I like that warlocks get love, was a wiz main 13 years ago and i still think its a great class, I love utility. I couldve written this rant in a cylinder topic as well, but headgears like the one posted some pages ago annoy me a slight bit.)

 

I believe most people here think that such headgear is too much, even without the enchants. It's way more OP than Cylinder TAKING CONTEXT INTO ACOUNT.

[LordYggdrasill]

RO's MVP system is just so bad, 0.01 drop rate for a game thats 15 years old, ofc you'd expect to stop attracting new players, creating a stup!d mentality as well to the old player. That system itself is destroying the game. Everytime a something new gets added, that old MVP system becomes the basepoint right away.

 

I dont think the low MVP card drop rate is the problem, these things are not meant to be accessible to 99% of the players anyway. The actual problem is that the game was not balanced since from the very beginning(I am looking at you again MDEF scaling, but its just one example). Instead of fixing the game mechanism, they introduce OP gears to balance classes, making everyone gear-dependent. Its not an ideal solution, but its still better than leaving the game unbalanced.

 

To make things worse, these OP gears come from cash shop, rather than in-game contents. From the game health's point of view, it would be a lot better if there is a way to farm such items by actually playing the game. I for myself, would be more than happy if they make Magicians Gloves an MVP drop from an instance. Note its not just those recent jRO gears, even older equipment such as Ordinary Black Magicians Hat cannot be obtained as in-game contents as we speak right now.

 

And then you get another problem, that WP needs to make money. If you can get those gears from in-game contents, or if similarly strong gears can be obtained in-game to replace OP gears from cashshop, then not many people will buy OCP boxes. If WP doesnt make enough profits, iRO will die anyway. At the end of the day, it all comes to how Renewal was designed to be. A flawed initial design makes future improvements difficult if not impossible.

 

Edited by LordYggdrasill, 16 July 2017 - 09:42 AM.

[CadburyChocolate]

I dont think the low MVP card drop rate is the problem,

not being close minded to you, but it is what's keeping the players moving on and going forward.

[HattoriMasahige]

I dont think the low MVP card drop rate is the problem, these things are not meant to be accessible to 99% of the players anyway. The actual problem is that the game was not balanced since from the very beginning(I am looking at you again MDEF scaling, but its just one example). Instead of fixing the game mechanism, they introduce OP gears to balance classes, making everyone gear-dependent. Its not an ideal solution, but its still better than leaving the game unbalanced.

 

To make things worse, these OP gears come from cash shop, rather than in-game contents. From the game health's point of view, it would be a lot better if there is a way to farm such items by actually playing the game. I for myself, would be more than happy if they make Magicians Gloves an MVP drop from an instance. Note its not just those recent jRO gears, even older equipment such as Ordinary Black Magicians Hat cannot be obtained as in-game contents as we speak right now.

 

And then you get another problem, that WP needs to make money. If you can get those gears from in-game contents, or if similarly strong gears can be obtained in-game to replace OP gears from cashshop, then not many people will buy OCP boxes. If WP doesnt make enough profits, iRO will die anyway. At the end of the day, it all comes to how Renewal was designed to be. A flawed initial design makes future improvements difficult if not impossible.

 

but if your guildmates consider your whole class as bad in WoE if you cant bring the +14 KvM stuff and the fallen bishop shoes something is really off. 

[Kusanagisama]

Not that RKs and Suras can do a lot of killing without a Tao, anyways... And not like FBH can do anything against a GTB Card anyways.

 

I already expressed elsewhere how I think MVP cards should be made. The real problem with the current system is not scarcity, it's that it privileges an absurd amount of luck over consistent effort. Kill GTB 20,000 times, and if the card didn't drop, you're not a single step closer to getting it. If in those 20,000 times you got 50% of the items that you needed to make the card, while someone else completed 2 cards after killing the bug 20,000 times as well, it would make a whole difference. It would bring some balance between luck and merit. Now, some fart just comes by, kill it once and get the card. And you feel like a sucker for even trying to begin with. That's the problem with MVP Card system. Also, you have no control of the scarcity of the item, since it's luck based, you have no hard control over which cards are legit, and so on. On the system I proposed (MVP drops an asset in a rare, but way better than current card drop rate, it can or cannot be account bound, you gather a certain amount of these items and change them for a MVP card in an NPC, that could also broadcast who just made the card in the same way god items are broadcast when they are made). No that they'll change it, but it would've been a much better way to reward effort instead of sheer luck, control the hurdle of making these MVP cards (by monitoring and changing the amount of "pieces" required to make each card periodically), and would also make a control over the legit cards, making it easier to track and destroy dupes and dupers. But whatever. This can't bring them profit.

 

It's obvious that direclty balancing the game instead of indirectly (by gears) is better for the game, but it's worse for the company. Messing with the game only brings costs, while releasing gears that solve game problems bring revenue. It's obvious that this design philosophy is actually their business model.

[LordYggdrasill]

Not that RKs and Suras can do a lot of killing without a Tao, anyways... And not like FBH can do anything against a GTB Card anyways.

 

I already expressed elsewhere how I think MVP cards should be made. The real problem with the current system is not scarcity, it's that it privileges an absurd amount of luck over consistent effort. Kill GTB 20,000 times, and if the card didn't drop, you're not a single step closer to getting it. If in those 20,000 times you got 50% of the items that you needed to make the card, while someone else completed 2 cards after killing the bug 20,000 times as well, it would make a whole difference. It would bring some balance between luck and merit. Now, some fart just comes by, kill it once and get the card. And you feel like a sucker for even trying to begin with. That's the problem with MVP Card system. Also, you have no control of the scarcity of the item, since it's luck based, you have no hard control over which cards are legit, and so on. On the system I proposed (MVP drops an asset in a rare, but way better than current card drop rate, it can or cannot be account bound, you gather a certain amount of these items and change them for a MVP card in an NPC, that could also broadcast who just made the card in the same way god items are broadcast when they are made). No that they'll change it, but it would've been a much better way to reward effort instead of sheer luck, control the hurdle of making these MVP cards (by monitoring and changing the amount of "pieces" required to make each card periodically), and would also make a control over the legit cards, making it easier to track and destroy dupes and dupers. But whatever. This can't bring them profit.

 

It's obvious that direclty balancing the game instead of indirectly (by gears) is better for the game, but it's worse for the company. Messing with the game only brings costs, while releasing gears that solve game problems bring revenue. It's obvious that this design philosophy is actually their business model.

 

I agree with what you just said. At the end of the day, WP needs to make money and survive, so they choose a business model that they believe is the best for profits. But there is something else to consider, since directly balancing the game may actually make players happier and bring in more new players as well. The happier veterans will spend more on things like VIP, and newbies of course will also spend. Then it becomes a question of whether the extra players gained by balancing the game will be paying them enough to offset the loss of revenue from cashshop gears. If 2k players are paying them $100/month($200k total), its better than having 20k players each paying them only $5/month on average(only $100k total). However, if 20k players are paying them $15/month on average($300k total), it will be a different story. There is no way to know unless they give it a try, so its understandable that they want no such risk unless they are forced to do something.

 

[HattoriMasahige]

I agree with what you just said. At the end of the day, WP needs to make money and survive, so they choose a business model that they believe is the best for profits. But there is something else to consider, since directly balancing the game may actually make players happier and bring in more new players as well. The happier veterans will spend more on things like VIP, and newbies of course will also spend. Then it becomes a question of whether the extra players gained by balancing the game will be paying them enough to offset the loss of revenue from cashshop gears. If 2k players are paying them $100/month($200k total), its better than having 20k players each paying them only $5/month on average(only $100k total). However, if 20k players are paying them $15/month on average($300k total), it will be a different story. There is no way to know unless they give it a try, so its understandable that they want no such risk unless they are forced to do something.

 

they might do the right thing in the short run (and it has been going on like that since renewal at least, even tho they werent the fastest at upgrading stuff since this game got released), but in the long run they are killing their jobs with this. And ill rant til they either get the balls to tell us that this game has become a milking game and they arent really interested anymore to make renewal fun again (which they wont) or until they start to listen to the community and start to use their GREAT ideas to give this game some kind of perspective again.

 

Because as it is the best argument this game has to offer to still play it is to not let the time, effort and money go to waste, but how long this will last, considering how long gravity is already counting on this, is to be seen. 

 

Your idea is great btw Kusanagisama. Killing 40.000 GTBs to complete a card sounds like something that would make me want to kill myself, considering the competition, but it would at least be a goal to work towards to.

[Kusanagisama]

LOL. The number was just illustrative. There would still be some luck in play, but the dependancy in luck would be much lower, and the reward for consistent effort would be higher.

[LordYggdrasill]

Oh yeah, recent kRO meeting suggests that transcendent third classes(or at least something similar to this) are in the making, and each class will get new skills upon rebirth. What do you want warlocks to get after awakening? I think we dont need OP skills, just need to have a way to get by our deficiency against Shadow and Holy element monsters. I know we have Comet, but it is not a spell that can be used regularly. It costs too much SP, it has a ridiculously long casting/cooldown time, and it doesnt do significant amount of damage to justify the cost of using it. A weaker but more usable neutral element spell will be nice to have, similar to Sorcerer's Psychic Wave. No need to be spammable like Soul Expansion, something like Crimson Rock's spammability is more than sufficient. Of course, I dont mind if they add a Holy or Shadow element spell to our skill tree either.

Edited by LordYggdrasill, 18 July 2017 - 04:58 AM.

[kubikyuu]

I know we have Comet, but it is not a spell that can be used regularly. It costs too much SP, it has a ridiculously long casting/cooldown time, and it doesnt do significant amount of damage to justify the cost of using it.

 

Reading + Release completely nullifies all cooldown, so that's no argument at all.

Warlocks also have Hell Inferno to deal with the few Holy monsters you cannot kill with your other skills. Sure it is single target, but how mand Holy 4 mobs do you really face?

And they are able to hit all Shadow mobs with their regular spells. Granted the damage is not too awesome, but they can. Freeze + Chain Lightning/Crimson Rock also often is an option.

 

If anything I hope they do not implement more skills that heavily rely on stats for their damage (like Psychic Wave or Severe Rainstorm), because those have completely broken damage with the proper setup.

Rebalancing those would be sweet, even if I doubt it will happen.

[LordYggdrasill]

Reading + Release completely nullifies all cooldown, so that's no argument at all.

Warlocks also have Hell Inferno to deal with the few Holy monsters you cannot kill with your other skills. Sure it is single target, but how mand Holy 4 mobs do you really face?

And they are able to hit all Shadow mobs with their regular spells. Granted the damage is not too awesome, but they can. Freeze + Chain Lightning/Crimson Rock also often is an option.

 

If anything I hope they do not implement more skills that heavily rely on stats for their damage (like Psychic Wave or Severe Rainstorm), because those have completely broken damage with the proper setup.

Rebalancing those would be sweet, even if I doubt it will happen.

 

I know there is a way to get by the limitations. I can also cast deluge and waterball to kill holy/shadow monsters like I have done against Cornus, and frankly a skilled caster can kill any enemies with even just the bolts. It will just take much longer, still doable but thats beyond the point. If another class can kill the enemies in a few seconds but you need half a minute or longer, it wont make you a good killer. I am just saying that, rather than getting OP skills, I'd prefer skills that provide us with more versatility.

 

It is just that Gravity has indicated that all rebirth third classes will get skills, so I am speculating and giving my 2-cent on what will be preferred for warlocks. Note this is not an option, it is what will happen. Also lets not forget that other classes may get some OP skills, so I am really being generous here not asking anything more than a Neutral element spell. Of course we dont need skills that heavily rely on stats, I use Psychic Wave as an example because its a neutral element spell, and thats about it.

Edited by LordYggdrasill, 18 July 2017 - 05:27 AM.

[kubikyuu]

I know there is a way to get by the limitations. I can also cast deluge and waterball to kill holy/shadow monsters like I have done against Cornus, and frankly a skilled caster can kill any enemies with even just the bolts. It will just take much longer, still doable but thats beyond the point. If another class can kill the enemies in a few seconds but you need half a minute or longer, it wont make you a good killer. I am just saying that, rather than getting OP skills, I'd prefer skills that provide us with more versatility.

 

It is just that Gravity has indicated that all rebirth third classes will get skills, so I am speculating and giving my 2-cent on what will be preferred for warlocks. Note this is not an option, it is what will happen. Also lets not forget that other classes may get some OP skills, so I am really being generous here not asking anything more than a Neutral element spell. Of course we dont need skills that heavily rely on stats, I use Psychic Wave as an example because its a neutral element spell, and thats about it.

 

I never said that you aked for skills that have stats in their damage formula. Psychic Wave is just an example for a magic skill that has stats in it's formula and a magic attack that is neutral element. :v

Note that you again talk about skills you would prefer not what will be preferred by most.

 

Something like a passive that reduces Comet's sp cost and/or increases it's damage would be an option too.

Or a passive that gives Hell Inferno splash damage.

Or... (you can go on endlessly here)

 

Speculation about what new skills will be like is useless, Gravity Korea will do what it will do and we'll see what they will do once the information about those skills is released.

 

Edit:
If anything I'd take speculation to an extra thread with "speculation" in it's title, else some people will end up believing that the speculation is actually what will happen.

Edited by kubikyuu, 18 July 2017 - 05:42 AM.

[LordYggdrasill]

I never said that you aked for skills that have stats in their damage formula. Psychic Wave is just an example for a magic skill that has stats in it's formula and a magic attack that is neutral element. :v

Note that you again talk about skills you would prefer not what will be preferred by most.

 

Something like a passive that reduces Comet's sp cost and/or increases it's damage would be an option too.

Or a passive that gives Hell Inferno splash damage.

Or... (you can go on endlessly here)

 

Speculation about what new skills will be like is useless, Gravity Korea will do what it will do and we'll see what they will do once the information about those skills is released.

 

Edit:
If anything I'd take speculation to an extra thread with "speculation" in it's title, else some people will end up believing that the speculation is actually what will happen.

 

I see. Yeah I was talking about what I would prefer, and thats the point of discussion really, since I am interested in what other ppls with mage class main think about. It will be nice to hear no matter whether you will agree with me or not, disagreement doesnt necessarily mean contention, you are among the posters that I highly respect.

 

So the question is, given a choice of more powerful spells vs more versatility, what would you choose? I just said my choice would be versatility, since we already received good enough damage boosts with Flattery Robe, Mob Scarf and Magicians Gloves. There may be even more OCP items that will make us even better DPS dealer in future. Not that I ask for them though, I dont ask anything more than Magicians Gloves. Just saying this may happen, so more powerful spells than Crimson Rock will not be needed at this moment(unless they buff the other classes significantly to make us fall behind).

 

Sure passive skills that improve Comet and Hell Inferno are also good options. Of course, there is also a chance that we get nothing good out of the new skills. I dont mind this so long as, the other classes dont get OP skills so we aint worse off after the update.

 

And yeah, a speculation thread will be nice to have. Its not about what will happen, its about what could happen.

Edited by LordYggdrasill, 18 July 2017 - 06:00 AM.

[Darkshneider]

Buff and versatiliy sounds nice.Ya know what i would like a mystical amplification type of buff thats like recognized spell and you dont have tor ecast each spell you do.Aaannd maybe an aoe type of tetravortex

Edited by Darkshneider, 18 July 2017 - 07:44 AM.

[LordYggdrasill]

Buff and versatiliy sounds nice.Ya know what i would like a mystical amplification type of butt thats like recognized spell and you dont have tor ecast each spell you do.Aaannd maybe an aoe type of tetravortex

 

Oh yeah, Mystic Amplification as duration of 30-60 secs sounds nice too, if they will pull it off of course.
 

[Darkshneider]

That typo.i was just waking up,typed butt instead of buff ayy lmao XD corrected on my post,but tis there for posterity on yggs quote reply XD

[Ashuckel]

i expect skills based on atk :v

[Gabrielr04]

i expect skills based on atk :v

Napalm Strike
Ghost spammable skill with Str on it's formula