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#1 Feuer

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 03:19 AM

Why you hatin on Dealers so much... This is now your job.

 

Bourgeois aint too bad, could use a bit more HP and a Decloak that doesn't completely suck.

 

Artisan though... I mean, not even a defensive Cooldown, let alone a decloak or any mitigation passives. Honestly, just drop the professions update, at this point it's "tainted meat" and I don't even want it. And I was a huge supporter of it. But I mean, cm'on man, over 3 years now. Legitimately 3+ years, and Artisans are still being told 'your turn will come' like.... I'm calling you out on that, right now. I know you're busy with the Orlo update not wanting to be uploaded to the server properly, and the other 'thing' right now. But I want to see some Artisan love after those two are implemented. I mean full scale, open Pegasus up, listen to our feedback, PLAY with us a bit so we can put you on an Artisan and wreck you with every class in game so you know what the last 3 years have been like. And we can fix it. 

 

Til then, I'm just seeing a whole lot of vapid excuses. 

 

Sincerely~

Angry Feuer.


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#2 Snuwfer

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 01:49 PM

?... Arti's are fine what do they need besides a decloak or eye?


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#3 Feuer

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 09:32 PM

Lmfao, no one, and I mean no one who's ever played an Arti at end-game would say they're fine. Don't bring your vendetta in my letter to Genesis just because you got your butt whooped by Charles' Artisan. 


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#4 Snuwfer

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 09:04 AM

Even with no runes their damage is completely fine


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#5 Feuer

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 09:23 AM

That's all your brain is focused on dude. The problem with Artisan is survival in group content, which fyi, ALL end-game content is group content. Wars, Arenas and Dungeons. And as one of my favorite gaming philosophies goes, you can't deal damage, if you're dead. 


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#6 Snuwfer

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 09:55 AM

you can't be serious?


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#7 Feuer

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 12:12 PM

You ever played a seriously funded BA in end-game content? And by ever, I mean in the last 6 months. I'm just going to say no, because I know most of your alts by now that you regularly use.

 

Point is, if you're going to sit there and say that Artisan is fine because in 1v1's you get spanked [like most classes do] by a fully funded BA, then I'd simply like to point out, you don't know from experience.

ANY, Artisan main will tell you they get dropped in an instant if they don't have control of the fight. Soon as an Arti's CC breaks or Fails, they're in hot water and start taking metric tonnes of damage. But you wouldn't know.

 

Allow me to elaborate.

 

Knights: Survival Stats + Passives
Maximum HP, Defense, HP Recovery Passives, Damage Reduction, Block Rate + Block Amount, Scaling Block Amount, Temporary Dmg Reductions, Temporary HP Recovery Buffs, Self Healing. (Decloak)

 

Champions: Survival Stats + Passives

Maximum HP, Defense Passives, HP Recovery Passives, Dodge Passives -Spear-, Self Heal -Axe-, Killing Blow Huge HP Recovery Proc, Temporary Status Resistances. (Decloak)

 

Clerics: Survival Stats + Passives

M.Defense Passives, Defense Passives, Block Rate + Block Amount Passives, Scaling Block Rate Passives, Temporary Damage Reductions, Mana Shields, Proc'd Block Rates + Status Resistances, Self Healing, HoT's, Bonfires/Salamanders. (Lowest CD Decloak)

 

Mages: Survival Stats + Passives

M.Defense Passives, Proc'd Dodge Passives (Ultra High Scaling), Mana Barriers (EHP Self Heal). (Lowest CD Decloak)

 

Raiders: Survival Stats + Passives

Dodge Passives, More Dodge Passives, Defense Passives -Dual-, Self Heal -Dual-, Stealth, Cloak -Katar-, Temporary Defense + Dodge Buff -Dual-, Proc'd Movespeed -Katar- (Decloak)

 

Scouts: Survival Stats + Passives

Dodge Passives, Camouflage -Bow-, Proc'd Dodge Passive, Proc'd Movespeed Passive, Block Rate + Block Amount Passives -xBow-, Temporary Damage Reduction -xBow-. (Decloak)

 

Bourgeois: Survival Stats + Passives

Temporary Defense + M.Def Buff -Cannon-, Proc'd M.Speed. (Worst Decloak)

 

Artisan: Survival Stats + Passives

Proc'd Movespeed.

 

 

So Snuwfer.... Did you happen to notice something? Maybe a lack of certain ability to not DIE so fast? Perhaps, something the Artisan is ... 'lacking'?

No, course you didn't. You were too busy thinking Damage is the only thing that matters.

And like I said.

A dead DPS, does not deal Damage. 


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#8 Snuwfer

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 01:11 PM

ok...

and all they need is a decloak or eye

 

perturbed are we?


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#9 cokakorea

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 08:07 PM

Professions update?! :o


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#10 Feuer

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 04:50 AM

Snuwfer, get out. Seriously, you don't even know how Artisan work. The Developer's know they're under-powered, they've said so a numbers of times. 


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#11 Dragonlark

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 07:17 AM

Just a reminder to keep posts on topic. Please make sure that your posts are regarding the original post and constructive to this point. Attacking other players is not allowed on the forums, even if you disagree with their opinion. Off topic posts unrelated to the topic will be edited or removed.

 

 


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#12 Kilauae

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 07:03 PM

Alright, lets get this started.

I am the (Only) Artisan actually playing in end-game game types. (besides the ones trying to copy me ha excluding feurer).

Everything Feurer has stated is very correct. But even then when I have control of fights theres not much you can do when you get blasted by any class(runed or no-runes) skilling you with like 1-5 DoT Skills ontop of the skill damage itself. Artisans literally have no defensive passives or any sort of defensive skill to use. I mean atleast put a nice aspd passive that actually is useful in the tree(lol). 

Attack speed is completely useless, even if it was good, don't you worry a few skills and your dead anyways, why? Because theres no defensive passives of any sort.

Bourgs atleast have those, they also have an eye.

No decloak... Great lets just run around and wait for 90% of the game that plays raiders/scouts to hit us(Every other class has a decloak even a cleric). Or the Mages that somehow have more range than a dedicated range character( I have a gun... he has a staff why are they able to have more skill range.....?) Don't worry they have a Mana shield...to protect them.

Lets start on the game itself, Accuracy is a great subject. I have well over 3000 Accuracy why am I missing LOL(Don't worry your raider with around 1500 accuracy can have around the same hit rating as me with half my accuracy, but don't you worry if you miss you have 7 other DoT skills to rely on if you miss).

 

 

>snip<

 

I have played Battle Artisan for quite some time now specially before I quit, when attack speed was a thing. The class itself has always lacked PVP aspect passives or skills. 

The only reason my Battle Artisan is such a feared character in the PVP Zones is because the way I have built it but most importantly the way I play it. 

Anybody who disagrees with this thread is just a hater or has some sort of vendetta. 

Artisan deserve some sort of defensive mechanism or skill to be used. Maybe the same idea as the bourg class currently has. Like the whole new max level update did nothing for my character PVP aspect wise. 

 

Yours truly, The only artisan playing rose(Besides the ones trying to copy me cause they see how well I play it  :lol: )


Edited by VModCupcake, 20 June 2017 - 03:39 PM.

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#13 Feuer

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 09:46 PM

*strokes beard* yup. 


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#14 iMatt

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 11:48 PM

Let's first focus on the strengths or Artisans (apart form the crafting factor):

 

- Pierce defense

- high accuarcy

- good crowd control with sleep and nades

 

Where can they shine with those strengths?

 

- in coordinated PvP Game Arena teams (sleep the enemy team, focus targets 1by1)

- High Accuracy and pierce Defense allows the killing of Scouts and Raiders in no time, and I mean NO time

- Dungeon Bossfocus (mainly SC)

 

But now let's focus on their weaknesses:

 

- squishier than a Jelly Bean on steroids

- limited skill and bomb rotation (playing Artisan is as boring as playing right-click-afk-Katar-Dungeon Raider)

 

The interesting question is: What shall be done and how can we make Developers putting a focus on it?

 

Yelling at each other won't help there.

 

What is still missing is a proper "artisan rework" unlike on all other classes so far! I always heard "the Artisan rework comes with the rework of the crafting system", but after over 4 years since the "skill and buffset patch" there is still nothing new :wall: .

 

What would I love to see?

 

I agree with Feuer, that the current Artisan situation is anything but well designed. I would also like some defensive mechanism and a cleaned up skill tree....10000 craftingskills which could be summarised in 3-4 skills instead is not valid in my eyes. I can also remember the word "turrent summons" ghosting around, same with "crafting removed from Dealer trees and added as general skill".

 

My question is now: Instead of asking for changes, what would be a proper defensive ability or mechanism?

 

Edit: Feuer, if you reply please keep it short and possibly in random points, so I don't have to read an essay :blaugh: !

 


Edited by iMatt, 18 June 2017 - 11:54 PM.

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#15 Feuer

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:50 AM

In short?

 

I've sent about 5 different proposals, some short and some total overhauls to Genesis over the last 2 years, none have been tested, or listened to. Just the same 4 year old response of "they'll be worked on soon". 

 

Short enough? 


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#16 iMatt

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 05:21 AM

Yes, I know your feeling, haha...reminds me of the garbage the Raider class has become...in PvM boring rightlick of hell....in PvP dumb skill spamming like a bot (no more passive stack interactions or special strategies required)...

 

I would recommend you link those proposals in your future threads(threats :shss:), because it is good to remind Devs CMs or whoever is in charge now to think but stuff like linked suggestions might push your ideas forward instead of starting a potential trashwar thread (Hi Zach :D) and it would help interested readers (like me) getting into the situation or understand the problem (unlike me, I know the issue)!

 

I also recommend a more polite way of starting a topic, why you hate Dealer so much is probably not the right way, Mr Angry Feuer :D

I can explain you why, though:

 

Dealer have no Player Lobby, the majority plays Muses, Hawker or Soldiers...the amount of active Dealer players sadly goes to 0, means they obviously focus less on those...sadly

 

Greets


Edited by iMatt, 19 June 2017 - 05:26 AM.

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#17 Feuer

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 12:54 AM

Everyone knows I'm the angry hot headed forumer, that won't change. 


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#18 Snuwfer

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 09:40 AM

Fix this before you change anything on Dealers.

 

 

removed video myself

 

 

that's one normal attack animation, and one skill animation.

 

that's one damage splat from the normal attack animation.

 

where is everything else?

 

 

fix your class before you start begging and ranting about wanting it buffed.\

bomb damage accommodates pierce damage and skill power

 

 

triple edit ~ it doesn't take rocket science to figure out that he would only have to auto attack me once, apply his poison dot, and then sleep me and I will 100% die, so would a raider if he wasn't in full chiv with level 100 hp runes. If I live the sleep dot, he has one of the longest stuns in the game, oh they have two of those as well. Don't forget the nades! Artisan stun nade, and dealer concussion nade.. How many stuns is that? I think three. Also, Artisans DOT skills last longer than the actual skill cool down itself by a LARGE margin. I'd like to see it more balanced to other classes. No class should have that long of a dot with the skill coming off cool down before the DOT damage is expired. A monkey could be viable on an artisan, it just takes game knowledge to play it appropriately. No you don't need runes to kill scouts or raiders on an artisan either, they have enough stuns and DOT damage without runes to kill other classes via stun\sleep lock if they're not stacking HP to the maximum potential, that's against NON runed too.

 

I'm more than happy to start feeding you clips of why I think this class should be fixed before you start buffing it! Bourgs are just as broken by the way when it comes to skill animation, they needed proper attention as well to be fixed and then changes can be made. Hell, almost all of the skills itself or whatever it is they did to the attack speed needs to be fixed.


Edited by Snuwfer, 20 June 2017 - 03:48 PM.

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#19 Feuer

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 11:30 AM

And I'm more than happy to tell you the animations you're complaining about work on all weapons, all classes, and have been that way*since iRose. 

 

You literally don't know enough about the game and it's systems to comprehend what is going on, and trying to explain it to a lamen like yourself gives me a migraine. 


Edited by Feuer, 20 June 2017 - 11:52 AM.

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#20 carlosrose

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 11:30 AM

Fix this before you change anything on Dealers.

 

 

 

 

that's one normal attack animation, and one skill animation.

 

that's one damage splat from the normal attack animation.

 

where is everything else?

 

 

fix your class before you start begging and ranting about wanting it buffed.\

bomb damage accommodates pierce damage and skill power

 

 

triple edit ~ it doesn't take rocket science to figure out that he would only have to auto attack me once, apply his poison dot, and then sleep me and I will 100% die, so would a raider if he wasn't in full chiv with level 100 hp runes. If I live the sleep dot, he has one of the longest stuns in the game, oh they have two of those as well. Don't forget the nades! Artisan stun nade, and dealer concussion nade.. How many stuns is that? I think three. Also, Artisans DOT skills last longer than the actual skill cool down itself by a LARGE margin. I'd like to see it more balanced to other classes. No class should have that long of a dot with the skill coming off cool down before the DOT damage is expired. A monkey could be viable on an artisan, it just takes game knowledge to play it appropriately. No you don't need runes to kill scouts or raiders on an artisan either, they have enough stuns and DOT damage without runes to kill other classes via stun\sleep lock if they're not stacking HP to the maximum potential, that's against NON runed too.

 

I'm more than happy to start feeding you clips of why I think this class should be fixed before you start buffing it! Bourgs are just as broken by the way when it comes to skill animation, they needed proper attention as well to be fixed and then changes can be made. Hell, almost all of the skills itself or whatever it is they did to the attack speed needs to be fixed.

 

Not a single defensive rune while using lumi and you cry about being dropped in 2 seconds by the class that is suppose to destroy hawkers? Jeez,,,, get proper gears before you cry about a job who is 100% into offense.

 

2nd if u knew anything about the job u would know that nades share cooldown so is only 2 stuns (oh and btw there are plenty of other jobs with access to same amount of CC, xbows got 2 stuns 1 sleep, mages got 4 stuns, scouts 2 stuns) 

 

Go ahead, make an artisan and try to play then we will see how a monkey can do it, o or better ask ur clannie Vasq who has been rigging dp 24/7 with you for the past weeks how fast i dropped him the other day in CD :). Dealers are built 100% into offense since they lack any defensives while a scout, raider, mage, champ, knight, cleric can perfectly survive in outnumbered scenarios when played properly a dealer will 90% of the time be destroyed in 2 seconds. 

 

The only thing that you said that is true is how bourgs animation is broken and it gets stacked 60% of the times, just like it used to happen on scouts

 

Go rig more DP's and stop crying about dying.


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#21 pandasoup23

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 11:35 AM

full lumi, no defensive runes or even gems, no dodge buff? lets be real, you were trying to die fast ;o

 

you run out with less def than a mage, no dodge (a hawkers main wall of defense) and go up against a class with 70-80% pierce def when properly geared... i mean you're right, its not rocket science.


Edited by pandasoup23, 20 June 2017 - 11:42 AM.

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#22 Snuwfer

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 11:43 AM

Not a single defensive rune while using lumi and you cry about being dropped in 2 seconds by the class that is suppose to destroy hawkers? Jeez,,,, get proper gears before you cry about a job who is 100% into offense.

 

2nd if u knew anything about the job u would know that nades share cooldown so is only 2 stuns (oh and btw there are plenty of other jobs with access to same amount of CC, xbows got 2 stuns 1 sleep, mages got 4 stuns, scouts 2 stuns) 

 

Go ahead, make an artisan and try to play then we will see how a monkey can do it, o or better ask ur clannie Vasq who has been rigging dp 24/7 with you for the past weeks how fast i dropped him the other day in CD :). Dealers are built 100% into offense since they lack any defensives while a scout, raider, mage, champ, knight, cleric can perfectly survive in outnumbered scenarios when played properly a dealer will 90% of the time be destroyed in 2 seconds. 

 

The only thing that you said that is true is how bourgs animation is broken and it gets stacked 60% of the times, just like it used to happen on scouts

 

Go rig more DP's and stop crying about dying.

Nice accusations. :-) Quite a hypocrite

 

 

You didn't explain anything about the video I provided

It's impossible to do what was done in the clip, sincerely because of the damage % to hp cap. You have to atleast do 3 damage splats to kill somebody, it's game mechanics.

Artisans mechanics are bugged also, I've played the class, I'm not clueless. The clip I provided proves it, wouldn't you say? That is 1 animation with atleast 3 skills being used. Artisans can also hide damage just like Bourgs do. Do I have to prove that as well?

 

Your "defensive rune" argument is invalid, whoever was playing the Artisan at the time bug abused to stack 3 skills at once, regardless if I had runes on or not, that's not making this okay in any matter. How is it that I have countless clips of this too? Do you have the same of me?  :hmm:

 

 

Animations don't just stack on their own, the user playing the class has to do it himself. That should be common sense and that argument is invalid :-)

I expected you to tell me to go stack more skills again, but alright.

 

 

 

 

Feurer, I don't see you playing Dungeons, I hardly see you playing the game itself, I don't see you playing Draconis Peaks, I don't see you playing Crystal Defenders, I don't see you playing any class in JC, actively PVPing against people. Don't think you get to call me out like that  :heh:

 

 

 

edit~ Holy cow, this man actually said the Artisan would die in 2 seconds... Son, I went against him with full damage gear, with a scout.... He dropped me in two animations. I think your argument there is a little sub-sided :) It doesn't matter if I didn't have a dodge buff on or not, I would of died regardless because of the amount of dodge that scouts have even with a dodge buff while wearing Luminous. His accuracy would be higher than my total dodge even if I was dodge buffed, I'm betting.

 

 

 

triple edit~ Actually, you do know nothing about how the Grenades work, and the stun timer for each grenade and gun smash.

If you know proper game mechanics, you can chain 3 stuns together with an Artisan, Start with the Arti stun nade, then gun smash after, and then concussion grenade, or you could arti stun nade again.


Edited by Snuwfer, 20 June 2017 - 12:06 PM.

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#23 carlosrose

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 11:49 AM

Trying to explain it to a lamen like yourself gives me a migraine. 

 

I'm just going to quote Feuer....  


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#24 Snuwfer

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 11:53 AM

I'm just going to quote Feuer....  

 

 

I mean, you're trying to argue against somebody who just posted a video clip of the person bug abusing 3 skills in one animatoin, which you guys have told me for the past 2 months that's impossible

I'd run with my tail between my legs too, you won't win this argument. You'll have to get more people to start posting to start with, it might give you the edge. But you see, you've already lost, you shouldn't of been bug abusing.  :sob:

 

the icing on the cake... you tell me to keep stacking those skills!  :heh:

 

by theeee way, the correct term is layman.

 

 

 


Edited by Snuwfer, 20 June 2017 - 12:03 PM.

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#25 Snuwfer

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 01:20 PM

Ryzen 1800x

GTX 1060

 

The recording is a capped 30FPS

 

think I'm pretty solid mate, but thanks.

The clip buffers because I alt tabbed while OBS was recording, it happens.

Scouts don't have 5k+ dodge in luminous with a self buff from dex, maybe if I had like 400 charm, but nope.


Edited by Snuwfer, 20 June 2017 - 01:22 PM.

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