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#26 kubikyuu

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 06:12 AM

Magician's Gloves may be a strong medicine for the last resort, but we have no other choice. When you have a cancer cell and you cant cure it, you may as well just kill it.
 

 

I really much rather have Tempest set than Magician's Gloves.

If only because you actually need to swap weapons against different races.

So Magician's Glove is not the only choice.

(I also rather not have Tempest set btw. :V)

 

 

From my warlock players point of view, we I want it since it makes geared warlocks on par with the higher tiers of physical classes even more trololo.

 

Speak for yourself, but don't dare claim you speak for all Warlocks.

No need to thank me for fixing your sentence btw.


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#27 LordYggdrasill

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 06:17 AM

Oh yeah, combo cards similar to NCT combos will work, but does kRO have them yet? Even if they do, how long will it take for kRO content to come to iRO? Magician's Gloves already exist on jRO, it will be a lot simpler for them just to pack it in a future OCP a few months later, than to have them make new contents and wait for years till they arrive at iRO. Think about the time gap between kRO getting EP 16.1 and us receiving EP 16.1, and you have an idea.

 

But anyway, P2W is the business model Warp Portal/Gravity has chosen. Even if warlocks aint getting Magician's Gloves, other OP gears will arrive for other classes as well. So whether you like it or not, it is something you have to learn to get used to. Or do you honestly believe they will just get rid of the P2W model and maybe go as far as erasing Cylinder Hairband and Mob Scarf? If you are such a believer, all I can say is good luck.


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#28 LordYggdrasill

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 06:18 AM

Speak for yourself, but don't dare claim you speak for all Warlocks.

No need to thank me for fixing your sentence btw.

 

And I believe I am not the only one who want it, from what I see on this forum the magic users who know about Magicians Gloves, and dont want it at all because they are too good for mage classes, are actually minority.
 


Edited by LordYggdrasill, 26 June 2017 - 06:21 AM.

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#29 kubikyuu

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 06:29 AM

Oh yeah, combo cards similar to NCT combos will work, but does kRO have them yet? Even if they do, how long will it take for kRO content to come to iRO? Magician's Gloves already exist on jRO, it will be a lot simpler for them just to pack it in a future OCP a few months later, than to have them make new contents and wait for years till they arrive at iRO. Think about the time gap between kRO getting EP 16.1 and us receiving EP 16.1, and you have an idea.

 

But anyway, P2W is the business model Warp Portal/Gravity has chosen. Even if warlocks aint getting Magician's Gloves, other OP gears will arrive for other classes as well. So whether you like it or not, it is something you have to learn to get used to. Or do you honestly believe they will just get rid of the P2W model and maybe go as far as erasing Cylinder Hairband and Mob Scarf? If you are such a believer, all I can say is good luck.

 

It would be just as easy to release Random Boxes with Tempest/Penetration set items similar to Stanley's Shadow boxes. :rolleyes:

Those even need refines (break chance) and are not as bad as the Magician's Glove - if only for the need to swap weapons.

So by going the P2W way WP should implement those over the Magician's Gloves and just give the most useful Shadow Weapons a drop chance similar to Mob Scarf from current OCP.

 

WP can't take back Cylinder or Mob Scarf without a serious negative impact from players, but if the playerbase is strongly against more extremely crazy op items can be prevented.

After all that is why we don't have the afforementioned Tempest and Penetration sets (yet?).

However if people keep asking for instant-gratification-no-skill-needed-$$$-items...

 

 

 

And I believe I am not the only one who want it, from what I see on this forum the magic users who know about Magicians Gloves, and dont want it at all because they are too good for mage classes, are actually minority.
 

That still does not make it

 

From warlock players point of view
 

 

it just makes it "from some WL player's point of view".

Tiny but very important difference.

And you are really the only one I see crying about that item all the time.


Edited by kubikyuu, 26 June 2017 - 06:31 AM.

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#30 LordYggdrasill

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 06:45 AM

It would be just as easy to release Random Boxes with Tempest/Penetration set items similar to Stanley's Shadow boxes. :rolleyes:

Those even need refines (break chance) and are not as bad as the Magician's Glove - if only for the need to swap weapons.

So by going the P2W way WP should implement those over the Magician's Gloves and just give the most useful Shadow Weapons a drop chance similar to Mob Scarf from current OCP.

 

WP can't take back Cylinder or Mob Scarf without a serious negative impact from players, but if the playerbase is strongly against more extremely crazy op items can be prevented.

After all that is why we don't have the afforementioned Tempest and Penetration sets (yet?).

However if people keep asking for instant-gratification-no-skill-needed-$$$-items...

 

 

 

That still does not make it

 

 

it just makes it "from some WL player's point of view".

Tiny but very important difference.

And you are really the only one I see crying about that item all the time.

 

Well I agree the Tempest/Penetration Items are good alternatives, but Magician's Gloves are still better. And just like I said, WP cant take back Cylinder and Mob Scarf, while in foreseeable future I can envision more of such items making their way to OCP boxes. Are the playerbase strongly against it? I dunno, and even if many people are against it, it would be more from the point of view that the chance is slim in each OCP box and they lose big amount of money.

 

Okay, I can change it to some or most, to exclude the very few of you who are against it. But either way, I believe there are more players with main mage characters that want this item than those who dont, give that they understand what Magicians Gloves are. Yes I may be the only one who ask and request this item all the time, but to be fair this is the only item I request repeatedly. For anything else, my take will be 'nice to have but perfectly fine without'. This is the only item that I go around the forums to ask for it whenever I have a chance(when discussing Magicians Gloves, or when someone makes an OCP item request thread), because I understand its worth.

 

More importantly like I said, there would be other gears similar to Magician's Gloves coming to future OCP boxes. If we dont get Magician's Gloves, some physical classes will end up with OP gears like Cylinder anyway. If we cant stop this trend, why not embrace it and take it to our advantage. I am very satisfied with the introduction of Mob Scarf, and I will be happy if they give us other gears that benefit Mage Classes even if its not Magician's Gloves.

 

And if you dont mind, can you answer me this question? This quote you wrote on iRO Wiki, "Players will find that their roles in parties have drastically changed upon changing into this new class. No longer the primary DPS class most wanted for parties, but rather a fallback support class for controlling mobs and adding extra damage to finish off mobs", is this still true after the introduction of Mob Scarf? And will it be possible to remove this sentence, if Magician's Gloves comes to iRO?


Edited by LordYggdrasill, 26 June 2017 - 06:53 AM.

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#31 Kusanagisama

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 06:51 AM

Nah, better bring Magician's Glove which is simply 50% MDEF Bypass period. Those who vehemently opposed Tempest/Penetration Sets being implemented are responsible for all Imba items brought by OCPs, and you can be sure that red dragon hat thingie (Cylinder for DB RKs) which boosts DB WILL also come, so, better bring it already and never bring penetration/tempest all along. These players are responsible for it and deserve it anyways. Also, Warlocks are maybe the most expensive class to gear already, and this is because it needs 500 different items for different situations and can carry less than most classes even with Heavy Lifter Box, and is in really bad need of generic gears WHICH ALL OTHER CLASSES HAVE. I take 5 different weapons to Central Lab or ET every time, while my gene only brings her Crimson Mace with 2xAK.

 

That said, I'd rather they implemented non-MVP weapon cards that bypassed 50% or so MDEF from a race when slotted into a 2-Handed Staff, or if they simply NERFED everybody all along to make it nearly impossible to solo most instances for anyone, even GXes (which are made to solo), but it also won't be done. And as far as Paid Content is concerned, I think Magician's Glove is certainly the way to go.


Edited by Kusanagisama, 26 June 2017 - 06:58 AM.

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#32 LordYggdrasill

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 07:05 AM

Those who vehemently opposed Tempest/Penetration Sets being implemented are responsible for all Imba items brought by OCPs, and you can be sure that red dragon hat thingie (Cylinder for DB RKs) which boosts DB WILL also come, so, better bring it already and never bring penetration/tempest all along.

 

Its what I have foreseen as well. Its near guaranteed that similar gears to Cylinder will come for other classes, like Red Dragon Hat for DB RK. If RK aint getting RDH, something else for maybe GX or Rangers will be in future OCPs. Thats exactly why I've been asking for Magicians Gloves whenever I get a chance. Even if Warlocks are already good enough in your eyes, think about it, other classes will get stronger with their OCP gears.

 

If we wont get Magicians Gloves, its not just that we stay the same as we are, its that we will fall behind again, since other classes will benefit from their OCP gears. Just like a kid thinking hes good enough and wont need to take time to study, failing to realize that his classmates are studying hard and getting better, while the grade is curved. If you dont get better and you stay the same, you get worse relative to other ppls.

 


Edited by LordYggdrasill, 26 June 2017 - 07:08 AM.

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#33 kubikyuu

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 07:16 AM

And if you dont mind, can you answer me this question? This quote you wrote on iRO Wiki, "Players will find that their roles in parties have drastically changed upon changing into this new class. No longer the primary DPS class most wanted for parties, but rather a fallback support class for controlling mobs and adding extra damage to finish off mobs", is this still true after the introduction of Mob Scarf? And will it be possible to remove this sentence, if Magician's Gloves comes to iRO?

 

The only reason that part is still in is because new/returning undergeared people would otherwise expect to be the most well-loved AoE of all times, similar to Wiz in low TI, when people actually cling to Rangers like no tomorrow and love to invite a crapton of badly geared Rangers that do less dmg than a lot of WLs can do solo.

There are more than enough WL capable of carrying a whole TI party (even way before the first OCP!!!), but also more than enough undergeared ones for whom that sentence is true. :v

And I never wrote that sentence, I just never removed it because see above. :V

 

 

 

 

Just like a kid thinking hes good enough and wont need to take time to study, failing to realize that his classmates are studying hard and getting better, while the grade is curved being truly awesomely good and falling behind only because his classmate's parent's buy their kid's grades.

Fixed again.

 


Edited by kubikyuu, 26 June 2017 - 07:20 AM.

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#34 Ashuckel

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 07:19 AM

2 bads doesnt make 1 good. It just makes the bad worse :v


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#35 LordYggdrasill

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 07:33 AM

The only reason that part is still in is because new/returning undergeared people would otherwise expect to be the most well-loved AoE of all times, similar to Wiz in low TI.

There are more than enough WL capable of carrying a whole TI party (even way before the first OCP!!!), but also more than enough undergeared ones for whom that sentence is true. :v

And I never wrote that sentence, I just never removed it because see above. :V

 

I see, so the better idea here is to make undergeared warlocks stronger relative to undergeared physical classes. I remember in one of my high TI runs, there was another warlock in my party dealing something like 45-50k on Angra Mantis/Pom Spider, while I was able to do something like 135k-140k, easily OHKO anything in sight. I guess, this is a good example of undergeared warlocks. I actually think hes enough skilled, as he was using combination of warlock skills like Crimson Rock, Jack Frost, Chain Lightning to finish mobs off. But hes just, too slow at killing, and apparently just tagging along with the rest of party.

 

Kinda feel bad for him, but I am afraid theres nothing anyone can do. Gravity has chosen a new game mechanics since Renewal in which gears provide much much more power than raw stats, and MDEF scaling means that undergeared magic users have an inherent disadvantage compared to physical classes, dealing same or less damage at much longer casting/cool-down time. To change this mechanism will require a considerable amount of time and money spent to revamp this game, I dont think Gravity is interested in doing this.

 

Anyway, when new/returning warlocks see that sentence, they wont just take the backseat and be the fallback supporter, instead they will move on to other classes or just quit the game. Also warlocks supporting role in parties can easily be replaced and upgraded by a dedicated supporter, so they aint really wanted in most parties. At least, I've never seen warlocks wanted by any parties unless you ask to join and they are nice enough.

 


Edited by LordYggdrasill, 26 June 2017 - 07:50 AM.

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#36 kubikyuu

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 07:43 AM

I see, so the better idea here is to make undergeared warlocks stronger relative to undergeared physical classes. I remember in one of my high TI runs, there was another warlock in my party dealing something like 45-50k on Angra Mantis/Pom Spider, while I was able to do something like 135k-140k, easily OHKO anything in sight. I guess, this is a good example of undergeared warlocks. I actually think hes enough skilled, as he was using combination of warlock skills like Crimson Rock, Jack Frost, Chain Lightning to finish mobs off. But hes just, too slow at killing, and apparently just tagging along with the rest of party.

 

Kinda feel bad for him, but I am afraid theres nothing anyone can do.

 

There is: you can tell him what gears to get to improve. :)

You can reach oneshot on those mobs with only items available ingame.

So yes, he was undergeared and badly so.

And using a wind skill on earth mobs? Meh. Released Crimson Rocks would have done way better, even if they only deal 45-50k (which is still more than a lot of Rangers I saw did in that TI).


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#37 LordYggdrasill

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 07:59 AM

2 bads doesnt make 1 good. It just makes the bad worse :v

 

Yes 2 bads dont make 1 good, but no it doesnt make the bad worse.

 

There is: you can tell him what gears to get to improve. :)

You can reach oneshot on those mobs with only items available ingame.

So yes, he was undergeared and badly so.

And using a wind skill on earth mobs? Meh. Released Crimson Rocks would have done way better, even if they only deal 45-50k (which is still more than a lot of Rangers I saw did in that TI).

 

To be fair he was casting Chain Lightning after the mobs were frozen by Jack Frost, otherwise it wouldnt make any sense on earth type monsters lmao. I think he did a combination of these since he couldnt even kill with 2 shots of released Crimson Rock. I dont know what kind of rangers you met though. The rangers in my high TI party was dealing 90-100k(the ones with average gears I believe), and there was one who made it to 140-150k, even surpassing my output at 135-140k.


Edited by LordYggdrasill, 26 June 2017 - 07:59 AM.

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#38 Darkshneider

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 08:02 AM

*just a tag*

 

 

The problem here is the mdef scaling problem.Right now the only solution you got is go pororoca shoes with lacryma to bypass mdef,which renders all 2 handed staves obsolete.2 handed staves staffs should be the option to deal greater damage at the cost of survivability and since gravity wont fix the mdef scaling problem,the only solution is either these gloves,or that they add a card that's not an mvp card that you could slot on an accessory for example that could put 2 handed staves on par with the poporopoop combo and make em viable again like they should.

 

Warlock and wizard has always been the supreme aoe dps but since other classes like rangers been getting these op items and they don't have to deal with mdef scaling they can deal more damage than warlocks most of the time with 1/10th of the worth in gear.

 

Atleast before when the formulas were different this didn't happen.So the options are either remove all those gears from those other classes which wont happen,or fix mdef scaling and this probably wont happen either,or create a card non mvp like I said,perhaps mdef pierce for 2handed staves which probably will not happen so the option that is left its is a solution that alredy exists and its on jro which are these gloves.And since its the most likely solution since it has been alredy developed and EXISTS that's why many casters asks for them.I don't like cash item solutions items if it were by me add the glvoes and make em a drop in game.But sadly this is the most easly obtainable solution now.I hope this is clearer now


Edited by Darkshneider, 26 June 2017 - 10:15 AM.

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#39 Kusanagisama

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 08:28 AM

2 bads doesnt make 1 good.

 

Sometimes they do. :)


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#40 Ashuckel

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 08:50 AM

it creates more precedents for worse s***t to happen in the future, i dont see how that is anyhow good, but w/e
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#41 kubikyuu

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 08:53 AM

Warlock ((wiz)) has always been the supreme aoe dps (...)

 

My pre-renewal Bio3 experience tells me otherwise.

People only wanted a Wiz in their party to freeze the mob so the party does not die.

And after Anubis came all poor Wizards were left to solo until 95, since all Priests just ran there to resskill/Turn Undead. :u

I heard stuff about Wiz share in Ice cave 3 here on iRO, but that definetly never happened on the server I used to play.

The only Wiz you could see in Ice Cave were in level 1 killing Siromas with Jupitel Thunder.

I tried to find a share for my Wiz for ages, but without good connections and really awesome gears (in which case you went to oneshot stuff in Nameless Island 3) you were left behind.

 

 

 

Yes 2 bads dont make 1 good, but no it doesnt make the bad worse.

 

 

To be fair he was casting Chain Lightning after the mobs were frozen by Jack Frost, otherwise it wouldnt make any sense on earth type monsters lmao. I think he did a combination of these since he couldnt even kill with 2 shots of released Crimson Rock. I dont know what kind of rangers you met though. The rangers in my high TI party was dealing 90-100k(the ones with average gears I believe), and there was one who made it to 140-150k, even surpassing my output at 135-140k.

And I don't know what other WL you met, the ones I saw all managed to deal 100k+ :)

 


Edited by kubikyuu, 26 June 2017 - 08:56 AM.

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#42 Kusanagisama

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 09:22 AM

Interesting, because my hwizs have always been the main AoE DPS in my bio3 parties pre-renewal, though in that time the roles were quite well defined. Some monsters couldn't be hit by Snipers (except Falconeers) or Arrow Vulcan when they Powered Up, so a hwiz was something that could be frequently seen in parties in the servers that I played, both bRO and private servers. The role definition has always been Wizard as AoE damage, and archers as Single Target damage (until Acid Bomb, but it was expensive as hell), until renewal gave rangers an 11x11 AoE High Damage skill and an easy source of ranged damage% and AS damage % available from level 100.

 

The good part is that AS ranger is practically stagnant for a while now, and I hope they keep it this way. But still is strong as heck.


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#43 Darkshneider

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 09:28 AM

My pre-renewal Bio3 experience tells me otherwise.

People only wanted a Wiz in their party to freeze the mob so the party does not die.

And after Anubis came all poor Wizards were left to solo until 95, since all Priests just ran there to resskill/Turn Undead. :u

I heard stuff about Wiz share in Ice cave 3 here on iRO, but that definetly never happened on the server I used to play.

The only Wiz you could see in Ice Cave were in level 1 killing Siromas with Jupitel Thunder.

I tried to find a share for my Wiz for ages, but without good connections and really awesome gears (in which case you went to oneshot stuff in Nameless Island 3) you were left behind.

 

 

 

And I don't know what other WL you met, the ones I saw all managed to deal 100k+ :)

You snipped that lil bit of my post but didnt comment on the rest of the post ((the thing that really mattered)) cool!

 

Yeah ice caving was a thing over here in iro also turtle island and back then and they would be taken parties to anubises sometimes even to mob with SG when the Anubis craze happened.And bio parties almost always had wiz to deal damage here too.

I always played on iro ((taking breaks cause of life matters)) since it opened up back then.

I'm a hardcore wizard fan as you a re ((my main character wizard started as mage on beta then changed to wizard when the test didn't exist yet,my main chara is older than my niece XD)) but that dosent make me blind to the issues like mdef scaling problem we have now vs other classes not having to deal with such thing at all.

I hate solutions like the magician glove but we all know the mdef problem wont be rebalanced on a whole.Games really old now doubt they would re write the entire formula.


Edited by Darkshneider, 26 June 2017 - 09:29 AM.

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#44 Ashuckel

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 09:32 AM

they did exclusive patch updates for stuff like cart revo, and it isnt any more work to do with the mdef, they are just lazy and have priority issues :v
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#45 kubikyuu

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 09:40 AM

Interesting, because my hwizs have always been the main AoE DPS in my bio3 parties pre-renewal, though in that time the roles were quite well defined. Some monsters couldn't be hit by Snipers (except Falconeers) or Arrow Vulcan when they Powered Up, so a hwiz was something that could be frequently seen in parties in the servers that I played, both bRO and private servers. The role definition has always been Wizard as AoE damage, and archers as Single Target damage (until Acid Bomb, but it was expensive as hell), until renewal gave rangers an 11x11 AoE High Damage skill and an easy source of ranged damage% and AS damage % available from level 100.

 

The good part is that AS ranger is practically stagnant for a while now, and I hope they keep it this way. But still is strong as heck.

I only know Snipers in Bio3 from before the mobs got skills and no Wiz from that time. :v

After that it was: Wiz to freeze, Champ to Asura, Scholar to fill sp back up.

 

You snipped that lil bit of my post but didnt comment on the rest of the post ((the thing that really mattered)) cool!

Because I have literally no idea what you even want to say with the rest of your post.

It is horribly formatted which doesn't really help it's readability. :u


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#46 Darkshneider

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 09:57 AM

I only know Snipers in Bio3 from before the mobs got skills and no Wiz from that time. :v

After that it was: Wiz to freeze, Champ to Asura, Scholar to fill sp back up.

 

Because I have literally no idea what you even want to say with the rest of your post.

It is horribly formatted which doesn't really help it's readability. :u

Its sad since ya do sometimes do format errors on posts and it take the time to read carefully to understand what you meant.I  guess i valued your input and worth as a poster than you valued mine.((in other words i respect))Im done with this take care and have a nice evening


Edited by Darkshneider, 26 June 2017 - 09:58 AM.

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#47 kubikyuu

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 10:04 AM

Its sad since ya do sometimes do format errors on posts and it take the time to read carefully to understand what you meant.I  guess i valued your input and worth as a poster than you valued mine.((in other words i respect))Im done with this take care and have a nice evening

 

I go back and fix my errors if I notice them.

I would also go back to fix my formatting if someone told me that there are problem with a specific post. :u

Yours just looks like a huge brick of text with no line breaks. That's hard to read.

Please forgive me not going through your post to fix it when I'm also busy doing other things. :rolleyes:


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#48 Darkshneider

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 10:09 AM

I go back and fix my errors if I notice them.

I would also go back to fix my formatting if someone told me that there are problem with a specific post. :u

Yours just looks like a huge brick of text with no line breaks. That's hard to read.

Please forgive me not going through your post to fix it when I'm also busy doing other things. :rolleyes:

 

I didnt,not even once ask you to fix my post..? did I ask that? .Ill fix my post now.But I had repsect for you thats now gone.didnt really expect an immature reply like this.i didn't ask you to fix or correct anything.

 

Edit:the post is abit more tidy now


Edited by Darkshneider, 26 June 2017 - 10:16 AM.

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#49 Gabrielr04

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 10:20 AM

The clash of opinions will always exist, there's a lot of people from mage community that want this Magician Gloves implemented in game since they would be a huge boost on the classes they like to play but it's still disappointing how we must lay down on these cash shop items to surpass the MDEF problem instead of having a "Ingame Free" solution like farming combo cards for it. 

 

In my days of pre-renewal High Wizard wasn't at all just for freeze lol, the days Turtle Island and Ice Titan TI arrived the game people would go on mad lvling to reach max lvl and the parties made usually had at least 1 HW to cause a pretty decent DPS lol. 

 

Warlock might not be the most op class we all know that, it's hard to catch up against other classes like Gene, GX, Ranger, RK, but still aren't the most weak class in the game neither, we've been receiving some boosts from this OCP (Pororoca Combo, Mob Scarf) that make things like 3 shotting Ifrit totally doable lol, all this "supposedly" incoming items is making people go on a rampage of "I MUST PAY TO GET THIS ASAP" as we saw at the Mob Scarf, the implementation of the Magician Gloves would be just going throught this all over again lol


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#50 Gabrielr04

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 10:20 AM

The clash of opinions will always exist, there's a lot of people from mage community that want this Magician Gloves implemented in game since they would be a huge boost on the classes they like to play but it's still disappointing how we must lay down on these cash shop items to surpass the MDEF problem instead of having a "Ingame Free" solution like farming combo cards for it. 

 

In my days of pre-renewal High Wizard wasn't at all just for freeze lol, the days Turtle Island and Ice Titan TI arrived the game people would go on mad lvling to reach max lvl and the parties made usually had at least 1 HW to cause a pretty decent DPS lol. 

 

Warlock might not be the most op class we all know that, it's hard to catch up against other classes like Gene, GX, Ranger, RK, but still aren't the most weak class in the game neither, we've been receiving some boosts from this OCP (Pororoca Combo, Mob Scarf) that make things like 3 shotting Ifrit totally doable lol, all this "supposedly" incoming items is making people go on a rampage of "I MUST PAY TO GET THIS ASAP" as we saw at the Mob Scarf, the implementation of the Magician Gloves would be just going throught this all over again lol


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