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#51 Darkshneider

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 10:33 AM

Agreed.I would love for cards to release that arent mvp that would help or even ingame equips.Im really against pay2win exclusive items but we all seen how the game has been releasing those op items as of late.A warlock can be really strong but we have to be geared to the teeth to be able to reach some other classes.It would just be nice to get our class "role" back.

 

I'm not leaving ragnarok anytime soon I have taken breaks here and there but this is a game I love.And I love the casters here specially wizard->warlocks I find them enjoyable to play.I just say I understand why people ask for magician glove cause even if its a pay solution,its a light at the end of the tunnel so to speak cause the item alredy exists and just needs to be imported Versus waiting who knows how many more years if the development team EVER decides to release items or cards that make the dependency on mdef combos like pororoca or fix the massive mdef scaling problem and give 2 handed staves back their strength again.


Edited by Darkshneider, 26 June 2017 - 10:35 AM.

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#52 yauhoilun

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 10:34 AM

Yes warlock is not as OP as other classes. This is why I have two genetics. However warlocks are fun to play.
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#53 LordYggdrasill

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 11:39 AM

it creates more precedents for worse s***t to happen in the future, i dont see how that is anyhow good, but w/e

 

For some classes maybe, but at least for Warlocks/Magicians Gloves it wont. The posters above me have already pointed out that although warlocks have come a long way, we are not OP like Geneticists/GX/RK/Rangers. Magicians Gloves will make warlocks considerably better, but still not more powerful than the four meta-classes I mentioned above. So yeah, we are good to go.

 

On the other hand, there is a merit that Magicians Gloves grant us that makes it more reasonable than other OP gears. Magician's Gloves aint just a shiny gem that increases your raw ATK/MATK, it actually offers a solution to bypass Renewal's MDEF scaling issue. Maybe you are in love with how MDEF scaling works, but I am afraid most ppls here agree that MDEF scaling is a flaw and a fix is needed. However, we are 100% sure that Gravity aint going to fix it at all, they've got no time and money to do that. Like I said, if you cant cure a cancer cell, you may as well just kill it.

 

More NCT-like cards combo can be a good alternative, but it will make 2-hands staves more worthless. Bringing in Magicians Gloves, on the other hand, can make 2-hands Staves useful again, which isnt a bad thing in my eyes.


Edited by LordYggdrasill, 26 June 2017 - 11:47 AM.

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#54 kubikyuu

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 11:58 AM

I didnt,not even once ask you to fix my post..? did I ask that? .Ill fix my post now.But I had repsect for you thats now gone.didnt really expect an immature reply like this.i didn't ask you to fix or correct anything.

 

Edit:the post is abit more tidy now

Must not have been much respect if you loose it so easily.

 

 

The problem here is the mdef scaling problem.Right now the only solution you got is go pororoca shoes with lacryma to bypass mdef,which renders all 2 handed staves obsolete.2 handed staves staffs should be the option to deal greater damage at the cost of survivability and since gravity wont fix the mdef scaling problem,the only solution is either these gloves,or that they add a card that's not an mvp card that you could slot on an accessory for example that could put 2 handed staves on par with the poporopoop combo and make em viable again like they should.

 

I never said that MDef as it is is ok. I would be really happy if it gets reworked.

2handed Staffs are not obsolete, a highly upgraded Staff of Destruction can still carry you far.

Before I had a Neo Punk carded Mad Bunny I compared a clean +11 SoD against a specialized +12 Crimson Rod and Neo Punk Valk Shield - the damage was almost the same with both setups!

+12 Crimson Rod + Big Ben Card + Cobalt Mineral Card + Neo Punk Card = 250m + 140m + 20m + 140m = 550m

+11 Staff of Destruction = ~300m

This makes SoD a cheaper, less defensive weapon compared to 1handed Staff + Shield.

You will not get the best combination of damage and defence with it, but that does not make it completely useless.

And I completely agree with you that the best 2handed weapons should have more power than the best (carded) 1handed ones.

 

 

Warlock and wizard has always been the supreme aoe dps

 

Wizards and High Wizards always being supreme DPS is not how I knew them.

All guides claimed they were, but when you really tried to level your own Wiz after Bio3/Anubis were introduced you were up for a really hard time finding people willing to share.

Different servers = different preferences I guess.

 

 

but since other classes like rangers been getting these op items and they don't have to deal with mdef scaling they can deal more damage than warlocks most of the time with 1/10th of the worth in gear.

 

Rangers start out really awesome, but latest as you hit 150 and try to grind NCT you will find that you will need to invest quite a lot into Ranger gears to deal significant damage in there.

My Ranger without Camuflage.

My Ranger with Camouflage - and an increased chance of loosing your mob to a random person winging by.

Shadow gears used were +10 Basis Shadow Armor, +9 Beholder Shadow Shoes, +9 Flameguard Shield and a 9/7/10 Physical Set.

The BxB has 2x Expert Archer 1 and the Suit has 3x Expert Archer 1. The Manteau is still clean and just there for the set bonus.

I know that I don't get the full Tengu combo effects but I have nothing better for the Ranger as it is now. It still provides 3% long-ranged damage and 2% against all sizes. :u

Cheap? No.

Is that Ranger damage good? Not really imo.

And that's not even too far off from what a Warlock can achieve with similar gear cost.

 

 

 

Atleast before when the formulas were different this didn't happen.So the options are either remove all those gears from those other classes which wont happen,or fix mdef scaling and this probably wont happen either,or create a card non mvp like I said,perhaps mdef pierce for 2handed staves which probably will not happen so the option that is left its is a solution that alredy exists and its on jro which are these gloves.And since its the most likely solution since it has been alredy developed and EXISTS that's why many casters asks for them.I don't like cash item solutions items if it were by me add the glvoes and make em a drop in game.But sadly this is the most easly obtainable solution now.I hope this is clearer now

 

Fixing MDef scaling would be the optimal solution.

Introducing ingame gears (cards or 2handed staffs) that allow full or patial MDef bypass would be the next best.

Then comes a very big gap.

Then we have cash shop Tempest sets, because those require weapon swapping and don't just mindlessly work against anything.

Then come the cash shop Magician's Gloves.

And last place goes to that lolwut cash shop Guarden of Eden.

 

The solutions after the gap are bad however.

Why?

Because it is applying a half-rotten pay2win band-aid to the festering wound that is a bad mechanic.

It will make the class impossibly hard to get into for people that want to try it out at a later date!

People will just add a "delete your Warlock if you don't have Magician's Gloves" to the list of "you need an Autumn Headband or Ranger is unplayable", "you absolutely need a Cylinder or your Gene is incapable of doing anything", etc.

=> On kRO people think it is not worth starting a Warlock if you don't own the Tempest sets. (source: Ye Kim)

 

I would not mind it as much if we got account bound Tempest/Penetration sets or heck even the Magician's Glove through a (maybe even vip only) permanent ingame quest that requires level 160~175 and/or tons of farming of character bound items worse than 16.1 robes.

Maybe even make that quest require a permanent tradeable cash shop item if that really has to be involved.

I do however mind getting overpowered "must-have best in slot" stuff through temporary cash shop random boxes (or temporary events that are not repeated every year for that matter).


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#55 Kusanagisama

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 12:03 PM

it creates more precedents for worse s***t to happen in the future, i dont see how that is anyhow good, but w/e

 

Please, tell me more about how Cylinder case didn't create all precedent they needed to do everything they want about any items.


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#56 Ashuckel

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 12:08 PM

i never said it didnt.
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#57 Darkshneider

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 12:43 PM

Must not have been much respect if you loose it so easily.

 

 

 

I never said that MDef as it is is ok. I would be really happy if it gets reworked.

2handed Staffs are not obsolete, a highly upgraded Staff of Destruction can still carry you far.

Before I had a Neo Punk carded Mad Bunny I compared a clean +11 SoD against a specialized +12 Crimson Rod and Neo Punk Valk Shield - the damage was almost the same with both setups!

+12 Crimson Rod + Big Ben Card + Cobalt Mineral Card + Neo Punk Card = 250m + 140m + 20m + 140m = 550m

+11 Staff of Destruction = ~300m

This makes SoD a cheaper, less defensive weapon compared to 1handed Staff + Shield.

You will not get the best combination of damage and defence with it, but that does not make it completely useless.

And I completely agree with you that the best 2handed weapons should have more power than the best (carded) 1handed ones.

 

 

 

Wizards and High Wizards always being supreme DPS is not how I knew them.

All guides claimed they were, but when you really tried to level your own Wiz after Bio3/Anubis were introduced you were up for a really hard time finding people willing to share.

Different servers = different preferences I guess.

 

 

 

Rangers start out really awesome, but latest as you hit 150 and try to grind NCT you will find that you will need to invest quite a lot into Ranger gears to deal significant damage in there.

My Ranger without Camuflage.

My Ranger with Camouflage - and an increased chance of loosing your mob to a random person winging by.

Shadow gears used were +10 Basis Shadow Armor, +9 Beholder Shadow Shoes, +9 Flameguard Shield and a 9/7/10 Physical Set.

The BxB has 2x Expert Archer 1 and the Suit has 3x Expert Archer 1. The Manteau is still clean and just there for the set bonus.

I know that I don't get the full Tengu combo effects but I have nothing better for the Ranger as it is now. It still provides 3% long-ranged damage and 2% against all sizes. :u

Cheap? No.

Is that Ranger damage good? Not really imo.

And that's not even too far off from what a Warlock can achieve with similar gear cost.

 

 

 

 

Fixing MDef scaling would be the optimal solution.

Introducing ingame gears (cards or 2handed staffs) that allow full or patial MDef bypass would be the next best.

Then comes a very big gap.

Then we have cash shop Tempest sets, because those require weapon swapping and don't just mindlessly work against anything.

Then come the cash shop Magician's Gloves.

And last place goes to that lolwut cash shop Guarden of Eden.

 

The solutions after the gap are bad however.

Why?

Because it is applying a half-rotten pay2win band-aid to the festering wound that is a bad mechanic.

It will make the class impossibly hard to get into for people that want to try it out at a later date!

People will just add a "delete your Warlock if you don't have Magician's Gloves" to the list of "you need an Autumn Headband or Ranger is unplayable", "you absolutely need a Cylinder or your Gene is incapable of doing anything", etc.

=> On kRO people think it is not worth starting a Warlock if you don't own the Tempest sets. (source: Ye Kim)

 

I would not mind it as much if we got account bound Tempest/Penetration sets or heck even the Magician's Glove through a (maybe even vip only) permanent ingame quest that requires level 160~175 and/or tons of farming of character bound items worse than 16.1 robes.

Maybe even make that quest require a permanent tradeable cash shop item if that really has to be involved.

I do however mind getting overpowered "must-have best in slot" stuff through temporary cash shop random boxes (or temporary events that are not repeated every year for that matter).

Thank you so much.I apologize for my reaction it kinda felt like my input was brushed off.Thanks for taking your time and I agree on you in many points.

You can notice I defend 2handed staves a lot too I love using them I got a +12 sod and I know its really powerful indeed and not long ago I got m hands on a +12 empowered lightning one and its really strong too.So id like solutions that could make the mdef hit not as bad on 2 handers and it would open up different setup options too


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#58 Kusanagisama

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 01:12 PM

What makes me really sad is how Lindy Hop and Juliette de Rachel are great weapons, but Sunflower Boy is really crappy because of environmental reasons.

I stopped caring when I realised that kRO, who owns the game, doesn't care anymore for a long time. Conceptually speaking, I agree with almost everything that Kubi said, but right now many classes have it easy, and I don't want the class I love to be the only one to have it the hard way, as if it was not hard enough already. Making an in-game quest that takes a month to conclude to get a single of these items is something that probably they won't do, specially judging by how much people are willing to spend on this game. A lot of players are telling management that they WANT the game to be Pay to Win, and I think this makes us the minority, at least pocket-wise. If we stop spending all we were used to spend, we'll probably never amount to how much the OCP brought to the server in terms of renevue increase.

Also, I resent the coming of every OCP. It would've been way better if we had gotten Penetration AND Tempest sets back there, and if OCPs had never been implemented, but now it's impossible to revert the change, and you can't even mitigate this damage. I don't think anything they do to the server now can make things worse that they are already... except selling MVP Cards in cash shop or cash shop boxes. That's the sole reason for me not wanting them now. It's not about what would damage the server less. It's already irreversibly damaged, and past the point of no return. So, I simply don't care about it anymore, and I'd rather watch the world burn now while laughing at the faces of those who managed to prevent Tempest Sets to come here. It was even worse than kRO's version because our version needed +30 to have 100% bypass, if I remember correctly, while kRO's version have it at +25. Now we have Cylinder, Tengu, Mob Scarf... and more to come.


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#59 Sigma1

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 07:50 PM

New batch of tempest set have been introduced to KRO few months ago. They take armor, shield and shoes slots and bypass 2 races simultaneously.
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#60 mildcontempt

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 08:01 PM

I feel like kRO just intentionally does things to trigger people who have even a shred of interest in game balance.


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#61 LordYggdrasill

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 06:35 AM

What makes me really sad is how Lindy Hop and Juliette de Rachel are great weapons, but Sunflower Boy is really crappy because of environmental reasons.

I stopped caring when I realised that kRO, who owns the game, doesn't care anymore for a long time. Conceptually speaking, I agree with almost everything that Kubi said, but right now many classes have it easy, and I don't want the class I love to be the only one to have it the hard way, as if it was not hard enough already. Making an in-game quest that takes a month to conclude to get a single of these items is something that probably they won't do, specially judging by how much people are willing to spend on this game. A lot of players are telling management that they WANT the game to be Pay to Win, and I think this makes us the minority, at least pocket-wise. If we stop spending all we were used to spend, we'll probably never amount to how much the OCP brought to the server in terms of renevue increase.

Also, I resent the coming of every OCP. It would've been way better if we had gotten Penetration AND Tempest sets back there, and if OCPs had never been implemented, but now it's impossible to revert the change, and you can't even mitigate this damage. I don't think anything they do to the server now can make things worse that they are already... except selling MVP Cards in cash shop or cash shop boxes. That's the sole reason for me not wanting them now. It's not about what would damage the server less. It's already irreversibly damaged, and past the point of no return. So, I simply don't care about it anymore, and I'd rather watch the world burn now while laughing at the faces of those who managed to prevent Tempest Sets to come here. It was even worse than kRO's version because our version needed +30 to have 100% bypass, if I remember correctly, while kRO's version have it at +25. Now we have Cylinder, Tengu, Mob Scarf... and more to come.

 

I understand your feeling, and I agree with you. Whoever are against Magicians Gloves for warlocks, fail to understand that this game has already evolved into P2W and that the other classes will continue to get their OP weapons/gears regardless of what we will receive. We've had Cylinder for Geneticist, and its foreseeable that Red BabyDragon Hat will arrive for Rune Knights. And other classes such as GX/Rangers/Sura will continue to get their OP items as well. If we dont get ours, we will just be falling behind. Theres nothing we can do to change this P2W nature of RO, so we can only accept and get used to it.

 

But of course, like Kubiyuu said, making Magicians Gloves in-game item that needs a bit of hard work to farm, is a very good idea as well. I personally dont care how they arrive, in OCP cashshop, through monster drops, or exchange of Honor Token like items, whatever, I just want this item. Lets not forget that warlocks aint an OP class, so us getting Magicians Gloves aint going to cause as much game inbalance as Geneticists getting Cylinder. Also like I said, Renewal's MDEF scaling is flawed and now that Gravity aint fixing it, we may as well just kill it completely with 100% MDEF bypass.


Edited by LordYggdrasill, 27 June 2017 - 06:35 AM.

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#62 ChaoticRK

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 07:34 AM

Derailing of topic is not tolerable. :heh:

 

Gais, the OP is just asking ifs.


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#63 asperatus

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 03:27 AM

Derailing of topic is not tolerable. :heh:

 

Gais, the OP is just asking ifs.

 

Well, it doesn't really matter at this point since I got the scarf and I'm making second flattery robe for sell to get some funds :p_hi:


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