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#1 Onyzer

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 05:29 AM

Still not working. Lag walking as always but in a worse way because due to the stun the lag-walking-character suddenly return to its place before getting teleported again to its lag-walking-position which make him not possible to hit as it was before. Also, it feels like the effect duration is shorter, to be honest I don't know how long was the previous blind effect.

 

Suggestion : Looks like freezing isn't getting issues related to lags, at least not as much as stun and blind are. So why not give it freezing effect ? Plus, it's a grenade so it should have an area of effect.


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#2 Popcorn

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 07:56 AM

The "white screen" effect hasn't been touched. It's not part of the removed "blind" debuff. "Blind" status only decreases final aim and final evade for a specific duration which does not make sense at all anymore - especially not for PvP because aim and evade is off in PvP. The white screen effect is what is causing the lag and the white screen effect is part of the basic skill animation - I am working on that part. But the duration hasn't been touched with the change.

 

It has been confirmed several times now that the lag is now starting after the stun debuff ends.


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#3 Apocryphos

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 09:51 PM

After some more tests I've come to the conclusion that flashbang white blind is longer than the 1.5s stun so players start lag walking after 1.5s so a slightly longer stun would fix this atleast match the time blinded with time stunned. Basically the previous blind that inflicted final evade/aim reduction that lasted 4 seconds was tied to the white screen so a 4 second stun should stop them from lag walking atleast for the duration.
b7e9ad0837f399ea7ac5f89be2eaf2b0.gif

 

Putting this here as well.


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#4 Agitodesu

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 05:49 AM

Get outa here with your 4 second stun, competent players can still move around not getting hit after the initial lag phase.


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#5 Apocryphos

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 07:35 AM

I dont see the harm? In having the same stun duration as the actual blind(white screen) its not like theyre frozen they still get launched.
Itll just keep em still and prevent the lagwalk all together.

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#6 Bustincaps

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 02:24 PM

Chaincombo air shot into Flashbang bugs the range of the skill to hit far beyond its normal hitbox and you want it to have a 4 second stun? Wait, do the staff even know about this bug? Do you? >.> Just saying~

 

Not sure if adding an m.speed debuff equal to the duration of the skill has been taken into consideration or tested to see if it would solve the issue in general, but I would push for that before adding a ridiculously long stun duration to a skill that can be hitbox-bugged... and I don't even know how I feel about that idea. I think the next thing to tackle would be fixing that bug.


Edited by Bustincaps, 19 August 2017 - 02:28 PM.

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#7 9851170220163549840

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 02:45 PM

4 sec stun?. Sounds kinda insane. Just remove the bug/lagwalk. not increase the stun..


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#8 Apocryphos

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 02:47 PM

The arrow rain to flash-bang one?As for the hit box of flash-bang is just positional lag since the chain combo drags player backwards the moment the destroyer throws the grenade it's released at peak but server will show him throwing it from farther out, but to be honest it's hardly worth using considering the behavior of the skill at the moment at least with the 4 second full lag walk we can hope the enemy reaches a wall and then proceed to doing damage not to mention there is definitely a window to roll out before the flash-bang even hits.. The original intent of the skill was to keep the enemy still for 4 seconds, but in actuality the behavior of the skill made it super easy to lag walk, then it was changed to add a 1.5 second stun to help prevent initial lag walk, still lag walked at full speed  right after, I don't see how the original intent of a 4 second blind to be paired with a 4 second stun is overpowering, just getting the skill to work properly on the server side. 




4 sec stun?. Sounds kinda insane. Just remove the bug/lagwalk. not increase the stun..

That's why matching the blind duration with the stun will prevent the lagwalk in most cases. It's like you guy's have never been hit by a flashbang the blind(white screen) time is definitely 4 seconds but the damage you receive is far from 4 seconds worth of damage, especially when chasing and 0 flinch is involved. Anything less would be considered a nerf.


Edited by Apocryphos, 19 August 2017 - 02:52 PM.

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#9 Precrush

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 09:21 PM

This game's stuns and freezes are long in general.
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#10 Coolsam

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 08:09 AM

4 Seconds seems kinda overkill. It's bad enough we have easy to spam chain combo stuns.

Why not remove the screen white effect and replace it with a 1-2 second white circular flash effect that, at most, covers 1/5th of the screen? Have it occur over the stuns duration 1;1 so there's no lag walk at all.
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#11 Apocryphos

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 10:45 AM

Since the community is all pitch forks and torches about stun being 1:1 with the white screen. Bustincaps has an idea of matching the white screen time with a mspd debuff to stop players from lag walking kinda like spell trap.as for fixing the lagwalk caused by the whitescreen it seems that they lack working tools for it as well cause its based on the animation.

Edited by Apocryphos, 20 August 2017 - 10:54 AM.

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#12 testg

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 11:20 AM

To me it seems about 3.6 sec duration for white screen but might be longer since player may not be allow move. I dont see why its not possible to increase stun duration. Flashbang is hard to hit very small area of effect using it take precision or timing and opportunity. Maybe increase cooldown in exchange by 1:2 ration is possible. Game breaking for this skill if it has big area of effect and long stun and short duration. If balance with long cd and increase stun with keeping the area of effect this is not gamebreaking at all. If possible other class need a buff for their skill. but u give idea and suggest and something else happen so who knows what will happen to this skill.
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#13 zekiel6

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 11:53 AM

where is the problem? the original flashbang does the same what a stun effect does. it keeps the player in place for 4 ish~ seconds. but in 4/5 cases the player lagwalks away. so where is the problem giving it a 4 seconds stun effect? it is basically the same what whitescreen does.


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#14 testg

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 12:05 PM

where is the problem? the original flashbang does the same what a stun effect does. it keeps the player in place for 4 ish~ seconds. but in 4/5 cases the player lagwalks away. so where is the problem giving it a 4 seconds stun effect? it is basically the same what whitescreen does.


Thank you sir. This is what i was attempting to say. There is really no difference if increasing the stun to match white effect.
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#15 Popcorn

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 12:31 PM

Thank you sir. This is what i was attempting to say. There is really no difference if increasing the stun to match white effect.

 

That's just wrong. The white screen effect does not stop you from moving. You are able to move even though you don't see where to. For the one who threw the flash bang the one who was affected by the white screen stands still but actually the one is able to move and this is what causes the lag. It's a synchronization issue. 


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#16 testg

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 12:59 PM

That's just wrong. The white screen effect does not stop you from moving. You are able to move even though you don't see where to. For the one who threw the flash bang the one who was affected by the white screen stands still but actually the one is able to move and this is what causes the lag. It's a synchronization issue.


Sorry but i cant help but deny u. U can call it syncrhonizsation issue or other issue how many issue u want. Fact is player hit with white screen cannot move. Please view it on two computer so you understand. Thanks
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#17 Onyzer

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 01:00 PM

Why not remove the white effect which seems to cause the problem ? I mean, if the player is stunned, if he can see what happens or not is not important. Also, what's the problem with a 4sec stun ? It was the intended duration, plus it's hard to use this skill. The only CC Destroyers have are Flash Bang and Chain Combo. Also, 4sec is the duration of Barbarian's freezing effect which freezes people as soon as you press the key, while Flash Bang is a projectile and can stun only one person.


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#18 testg

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 01:15 PM

Why not remove the white effect which seems to cause the problem ? I mean, if the player is stunned, if he can see what happens or not is not important. Also, what's the problem with a 4sec stun ? It was the intended duration, plus it's hard to use this skill. The only CC Destroyers have are Flash Bang and Chain Combo. Also, 4sec is the duration of Barbarian's freezing effect which freezes people as soon as you press the key, while Flash Bang is a projectile and can stun only one person.


Agree. it seem to be how the behavior of what is changed is volatile? All the pvper i know know that u cannot move in fb white screen since forever. And barb is op gp to priest skill and i understand it cd and cost and usage because priest dont have quick launch attack they are ground lock unlike dest who do both.
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#19 Apocryphos

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 06:02 PM

That's just wrong. The white screen effect does not stop you from moving. You are able to move even though you don't see where to. For the one who threw the flash bang the one who was affected by the white screen stands still but actually the one is able to move and this is what causes the lag. It's a synchronization issue.

So after testing this myself the client doesn't even allow moving during white screen pressing the tilda key to see hp bar's move in towards you as you move towards them doesn't work NPC dialogues don't move at all, so if it was a synchronizing issue where does it fall out of sync the server rubberbands them back to original location and client doesn't allow movement in white screen is there other things at play other than client and server?
 
1bfc215253cb835565f6be0f14922594.gif
Notice how hp bar's and npc dialogues aren't moving clearly the client doesn't allow moving during white screen(yes I'm using my direction keys and trying to throw a grenade in white screen). As for the server the fact that the server rubberbands them back to their original position means they didn't go anywhere on their client.  I get the feeling like you're testing it against monsters, and their movement patterns are determined by something else other than player input.
 


Why not remove the white effect which seems to cause the problem ? I mean, if the player is stunned, if he can see what happens or not is not important. Also, what's the problem with a 4sec stun ? It was the intended duration, plus it's hard to use this skill. The only CC Destroyers have are Flash Bang and Chain Combo. Also, 4sec is the duration of Barbarian's freezing effect which freezes people as soon as you press the key, while Flash Bang is a projectile and can stun only one person.

One of popcorn's previous posts says flashbang's white screen is built into the animation and my previous post asking about the flight path of flashbang popcorn answered if it were built into the animation then they lack working tools for changing the skill.


Edited by Apocryphos, 20 August 2017 - 08:07 PM.

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#20 Bustincaps

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 06:29 PM

Orrrrrrr we could just get rid of the stun and add an ms debuff that drops the player's mspeed to like 50 or less...

 

I don't think anyone will mind chasing a lag dummy that moves at the speed of a snail and the lag dummy won't be able to get far enough in 4 seconds of "running" to cause a large enough amount of displacement to bother the casting player. Maybe it's worth testing?


Edited by Bustincaps, 20 August 2017 - 06:30 PM.

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#21 Apocryphos

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 06:58 PM

That's also an option but as it stands stun is still the most ideal, I still can't figure out why people are so against it being tied directly with white screen they've grown accustom to lag-walking from flash-bang, As for the movement speed debuff is also a viable option as long as it's in the white screen duration where it's not curable albeit a secondary to ideal.


Edited by Apocryphos, 20 August 2017 - 06:59 PM.

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#22 Agitodesu

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 10:08 PM

Change flash bang into a freeze grenade. That way in pve you can hit some monsters that fly so high snipe doesn't hit all the shots.


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#23 Fliederduft78

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 11:04 PM

Orrrrrrr we could just get rid of the stun and add an ms debuff that drops the player's mspeed to like 50 or less...

 

Nice idea, but sadly not working for the magician class tree at least. They are basically immune to any movement speed debuff they are still able to shoot in due to the fact the attack animation is bound to the move animation (they are able to x attack while walking). No matter what you do, as long as they are still able to shoot,  these two classes will always go back to the movement speed their shoot animation is set to. I'm 100% sure on this for the magician class trees because we tested this behavior in our guild and we reported it to the staff. We got the confirmation by Poppie for this being not intended. (3 examples for this behavior right out of miy mind would be : spiders in Pine Cone Hills, little Arka's root skill and the knight monsters in Van Cliff)

It could be the archer class tree is affected in a similar way but since we did not test this out completely yet I neither can nor can't confirm this.


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#24 5143121023173906760

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 11:12 PM

What about putting the stun, and adding the ms debuff altogether ?
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#25 Onyzer

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 11:55 PM

If there's only a MS debuff, it's not okay imo. Players can still move a little bit, which means they can use skill to cancel you. Or some classes can escape. (Archers' chain combo or Invokers Blink for example)


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