88 replies to this topic

[Dythe]

back on euRO most GMs and Bothunters where volunteers from the community. I don't get it why WP won't adapt that.

On the pro site: Tons of people would volunteer as a Bothunter.

 

I think there would be a lot of people who would do a decent job at this. But yeah making sure only decent people are chosen would be difficult.

[Kirx]

For show mostly ,they use it as an excuse when you send a ticket about bots to point at it, not matter if you already posted before that on a daily basis in it.

AntiBOT system is it already activated? GM's posse are still FARMING Item Drops.

[9469130508173849077]

cinnamon

 

 

Hoping: if ever the Anti-bot system works.

What solutions are intended for the server economy. And for the number of items and zennys that accumulated the bots.

[VModCinnamon]

 

cinnamon

 

 

Hoping: if ever the Anti-bot system works.

What solutions are intended for the server economy. And for the number of items and zennys that accumulated the bots.

 

 

If we disregarded the DDoS attacks and their issues, could safely assume the main focus is the Anti-Bot system. For your question, at this time I wouldn't know if the staff are planning to attend the impact of bots on the economy. If it happens, we should at least see it announced in future patch notes.

[RealGarion]

AntiBOT system is it already activated? GM's posse are still FARMING Item Drops.

 

I am sorry truly i really dont know what you try to say, the anti-bot system isnt implemented ... if thats the question? No truly... english is not my main language, while i speak it mostly well enough a language barrier can still occur ...like now, please rephrase and will gladly take the time to answer or react... .

 

If we disregarded the DDoS attacks and their issues, could safely assume the main focus is the Anti-Bot system. For your question, at this time I wouldn't know if the staff are planning to attend the impact of bots on the economy. If it happens, we should at least see it announced in future patch notes.

 

If you dont know take it as a concern now and pass it on. I run the numbers before but just as a rough estimate again ..., i remind you these numbers might be even to low but i try not to overestimate them :

 

Server infestation start roughly : 40 days ago 

Assummed number of bots per botter : 100 (i take this as a rough number this some of this guys bragged about these exact numbers, while others pointed out some have 10. times that ,but its not really important how the money distrubutes for any given botter)

Assumming :

30 low level bots  ( 1st to 2nd class)   =>  payon1, wolfs,elder willows ,toy factory,  => around 50k/h standart loot

40 mid level bots (2nd clas 75+) =>  toy factory , kunlun, payon3 , sohees etc => around 100k/h standart loot

25 high level bots (2nd class 80+) = > alarms, bathorys etc => around 250k/h standart loot

5 max lvl bots (2nd class 95+)  = rays etc.  => around 500k/h standart loot

 

This list excludes rare drop items like cards ,equip etc. with would pump these numbers up a lot.

 

40 days  => 960 h 

 

960 x (50+100+250+500) = 864.000k = 864.000.000  = 864m  standart loot for around 100 bots.

Every day the issues continues 

1 day = > 24h

 

24 x (50+100+250+500 ) = 21600k = 21.600.000 = 21m as extra revenue 

 

That beeing said we end up for every 100 bots   on 864m in total for now +21m per day  concentrated on one actual user behind it (as i said some may run higher numbers i assume, zeny sellers).

 

 

But i would like you to consider that the profile of bots grows as well ,they might change maps slowly but they do, shifting the daily numbers up over time.

 

Lets assume at last that 6k are bots , some may argue there are 6 ,7 ,4 .  I take 6k since i believe it to be a save bet, even while i know it may be more.

 

So 6000 bots /100 = 60  x 864m = 51.840m = 51,84 b 

 

51,84  b concentrated on maybe 50~100 morons.

 

With the market right now around 2-3b are enough to complelty wipe every item on the prontera marked ... and some of it ...are merchant from bots.

 

That beeing said i remind you ,this is just a rough estimate on standart loot alone , rare drops like cards and equip might easily increase these numbers 5-10 times.

 

 

Yeah would be nice @Cinna if you carry the concern to the GM ,the numbers might help you to press the matter, since zeny that bots are making is real life money WP isnt making with bubble, kp items etc.

Edited by RealGarion, 28 August 2017 - 10:21 PM.

[roflcopter123456]

you didnt count rares. they bot shoes mufflers etc. its more than what you are calcing.

[loveSummer]

I don't really understand tbh, as a low level new player leveling up it's so disgusting. Even playing as a human i got mistaken for botting from someone from my own guild lol, it's so bull(ﾉ `Д´)ﾉ and i don't get how it gets this bad. I moved from Wolfs to TF2 to try escape it, yet to see a whole line of bots walking up Lutie lol. It's so (ﾉ `Д´)ﾉ bad.

 

Get 1 GM dedicated to banning bots every day, pay minimum rate, sit at a computer and right click > ban. Done. (ﾉ `Д´)ﾉ me silly.

 

 

VModCinnamon:

Greetings, kindly do not bypass the word filter next time , thank you.

 

 

Edited by VModCinnamon, 29 August 2017 - 02:32 AM.
Edited, filter bypass.

[kibato]

I don't really understand tbh, as a low level new player leveling up it's so disgusting. Even playing as a human i got mistaken for botting from someone from my own guild lol, it's so bull(ﾉ `Д´)ﾉ and i don't get how it gets this bad. I moved from Wolfs to TF2 to try escape it, yet to see a whole line of bots walking up Lutie lol. It's so (ﾉ `Д´)ﾉ bad.

 

Get 1 GM dedicated to banning bots every day, pay minimum rate, sit at a computer and right click > ban. Done. (ﾉ `Д´)ﾉ me silly.

 

this. Let them rotate a random map pool each day and swing the banhammer. Also develop a preschool algorithm which bans the zeny sellers in towns. I mean wtf i could easily write a script which bans 95% of the sellers everywhere.

 

But unfortunately this will never happen since developers don't generate any income in Ragnarok Online and the managers can't see the profit in a long term.

Edited by VModCinnamon, 29 August 2017 - 02:33 AM.
Edited in quote

[9469130508173849077]

 

51,84  b concentrated on maybe 50~100 morons.

 

 

... That's quite sad, but true.

 

 

I don't really understand tbh, as a low level new player leveling up it's so disgusting. Even playing as a human i got mistaken for botting from someone from my own guild lol, it's so bull(ﾉ `Д´)ﾉ and i don't get how it gets this bad. I moved from Wolfs to TF2 to try escape it, yet to see a whole line of bots walking up Lutie lol. It's so (ﾉ `Д´)ﾉ bad.

 

Get 1 GM dedicated to banning bots every day, pay minimum rate, sit at a computer and right click > ban. Done. (ﾉ `Д´)ﾉ me silly.

 

In what it takes to identify and ban a bot. 10 leave the training camp.

 

If you think it is annoying now expect to see the bots of high level. Not only plague the area, they also steal loot and you know that farm more zennys than you.

[SaintMulla1]

more bots means more snake hats needed = more silverine needed to be pruchanse >.< good profit for busniess 

[6332130511074022587]

This is my estimation of how many players are using the automated program.

 

 

Estimated Total Number of Automated Accounts  = Estimated Total Population - Estimated Real Players

                                                                               = 8000 - 2000

Estimated Total Number of Automated Accounts  = 6000 Accounts

 

Lets assume:

One PC/Player can run up to 15 accounts.

 

Number of botters = Estimated Total Number of Automated Accounts / Maximum Number of Account each player

                              = 6000/15

                              = 400 Players

 

Therefore, it is estimated that about 400 players are using botting program, in short one every five players are botter.

Also, this assumption does not mention the botters who only uses their main account and syndicates that uses multiple PC to run an army of bots.

This logical calculation is however very worrying. 

 

[MistressTIfa]

This is my estimation of how many players are using the automated program.

 

 

Estimated Total Number of Automated Accounts  = Estimated Total Population - Estimated Real Players

                                                                               = 8000 - 2000

Estimated Total Number of Automated Accounts  = 6000 Accounts

 

Lets assume:

One PC/Player can run up to 15 accounts.

 

Number of botters = Estimated Total Number of Automated Accounts / Maximum Number of Account each player

                              = 6000/15

                              = 400 Players

 

Therefore, it is estimated that about 400 players are using botting program, in short one every five players are botter.

Also, this assumption does not mention the botters who only uses their main account and syndicates that uses multiple PC to run an army of bots.

This logical calculation is however very worrying. 

 

That's a pretty hyperbole view of how many people are using automation.

Not every person is using automation for the same reason so 15 account doesn't make sense.

+ this doesn't even include the 100+ RMT Spammers nuking every city (Prontera, Izlude, Alberta, Morroc, Geffen and Alde) every second

 

Within those 6,000 which is the only undeniable #s at this point, there are probably a # of them that only run 1, and those are the ones right now at the high end level dungeons as the only ones doing so (aka the Hunter at Castle 2, the Priest at Chivs 1, the Knight at Chivs 2, the Assassin at CTHO etc).  If anything 5000 or so would be all right now at the lower than 60 dungeons + Training Grounds and 100 or so on High End or secluded Mid Tier Dungeons leveling, 100 in City states RMT spamming, and the 700-800 rest all stuck in a Tool Shop, Dead Zone, some program error that makes them go in/out of warps etc.  

 

 

[Dythe]

There are plenty of players who do not run bot farms. Large parts of the bots are just the typical zeny selling bot that is in it for business and not the game.

 

I know more than 5 people that I definitely trust not to bot, especially knowing what their money/gear situation is generally like. I don't see a point in playing a game if I felt compelled to do that, anyway.

 

I feel like actual players running bot farms or bots at all should be punished just as harshly as any zeny bot, because actual players know better. For the zeny farmers, doing what they've always done is about all they know. Not that it makes it remotely ok, tolerable, or balanced. I think everyone who is legit has a larger problem with a 90+ (even 99) bot than a novice bot, or a "legit character" that nonetheless is funded by some bot farm, based on things I've read (it's on the internet so it must be true!).

[6332130511074022587]

That's a pretty hyperbole view of how many people are using automation.

Not every person is using automation for the same reason so 15 account doesn't make sense.

+ this doesn't even include the 100+ RMT Spammers nuking every city (Prontera, Izlude, Alberta, Morroc, Geffen and Alde) every second

 

Within those 6,000 which is the only undeniable #s at this point, there are probably a # of them that only run 1, and those are the ones right now at the high end level dungeons as the only ones doing so (aka the Hunter at Castle 2, the Priest at Chivs 1, the Knight at Chivs 2, the Assassin at CTHO etc).  If anything 5000 or so would be all right now at the lower than 60 dungeons + Training Grounds and 100 or so on High End or secluded Mid Tier Dungeons leveling, 100 in City states RMT spamming, and the 700-800 rest all stuck in a Tool Shop, Dead Zone, some program error that makes them go in/out of warps etc.  

 

 

Firstly, it is an estimation with many assumptions. When the introduction of Bot Protection, there was around 2.5k players logged-in at peak for few days. What is worrying is that most of these players are dual clients. We can say that 1.5k are real players with 1k as vendors? So, would it be 400 players out of 1500 are botter?

 

Again obviously,  this calculation is based on estimated number of real logged-in players 2k+ (included the vendors) when there were NO bots and estimated number of automated accounts which is 6k from total number of online accounts at peak (8k+) (Including the number of RMt spammers and AFK at towns).

 

To provide you some evidence, the program can easily be use and ready even to someone uneducated at programming. Also, they have a forum that clearly states that "the programme can only have up to 14-15 accounts running at the same time". This is where I based my calculations.

 

Now, if we add those high level botters that only uses one their main account. Should we be start to get more worry? as it clearly increase the number of botters, if you think about it logically.  

[MrMatoto]

There's lots of bots at pront 101 216 behind this building... doing a thing.

[Masterpiece]

yeah the bots in toy factory have made it impossible to get to job 50. When it used to be the place to be...

 

[kibato]

the server is done unless it gets completely wiped.

[EwoI]

the server is done unless it gets completely wiped.

 

[kibato]

[Dythe]

wow this thread went downhill fast

[EwoI]

wow this thread went downhill fast

 

Stop being offended by everything and you'll fare better.

[Dythe]

Stop being offended by everything and you'll fare better.

 

...Please cite me being offended in this thread lmao I have NO idea what you're talking about or where you got that.

 

A discussion of something specific devolving into unrelated gifs calling others wrong (not something I even participated in) is a thread that has gone downhill. It sounds like you're the one offended by my post.

[Skormi]

so, i was thinking about this for a bit.
we all know there are botters with dozens of accounts. there are 6k bots but probably less than 2k actual people pulling the strings. and a big chunk of those mass botters are doing it for RMT sites. 

i've seen maybe like 4? RMT sites getting advertised all the time. and i know of a couple other forums where botters sell zeny. so, 5-10 websites selling zeny compared to thousands of botters.... why not just focus on taking legal action against the RMT sites? idk about RO but most games include something in their Terms of Service about selling accounts/in game currency for real money. so assuming it's actually illegal...

idk. i feel like it'd be easier to crack down on websites than a futile attempt to stop thousands of bots. at least until a real, permanent solution can be put in place.

[RadicalFanatic]

so, i was thinking about this for a bit.
we all know there are botters with dozens of accounts. there are 6k bots but probably less than 2k actual people pulling the strings. and a big chunk of those mass botters are doing it for RMT sites. 

i've seen maybe like 4? RMT sites getting advertised all the time. and i know of a couple other forums where botters sell zeny. so, 5-10 websites selling zeny compared to thousands of botters.... why not just focus on taking legal action against the RMT sites? idk about RO but most games include something in their Terms of Service about selling accounts/in game currency for real money. so assuming it's actually illegal...

idk. i feel like it'd be easier to crack down on websites than a futile attempt to stop thousands of bots. at least until a real, permanent solution can be put in place.

 

Why doesnt Gravity just buy the rmt, then get the money back cause its there property they own it reverse the charge stick them with the chargeback fee(even set it up beforehand with the pay companys youve been using for years, youd be surprised how often there willing to help good client/customers I was shocked when i was a manager at a construction firm how there where very helpful in these matters.) and then go tell the site is hosting illegal sites and to close them down. Gravity is a company other people arent gonna go yeah no thanks this person gives me 1$ a month and risk a lawsuit for real $ itll be closed down instantly and maybe you can get there real ip logs from the first time they created it so many unique creative ways to use there rights to bite back. Hell imagine the main bot gets tricked into selling 3million zeny account banned with 300 millizion zeny. You just gotta be willing to try or do something. Also considering banning IPS from southeast asian countries which are where most RMTs are from there thai RO pro kro japro they shouldnt be playing on iro. its so bad that 5$ of  zeny can then be turned around and buy wp points worth 25$+

Edited by RadicalFanatic, 02 September 2017 - 01:41 PM.

[9469130508173849077]

If we disregarded the DDoS attacks and their issues, could safely assume the main focus is the Anti-Bot system. For your question, at this time I wouldn't know if the staff are planning to attend the impact of bots on the economy. If it happens, we should at least see it announced in future patch notes.

 

if they are focused on the anti-bot system and go several months without success. we should not have hopes that they will fix the rest afterwards. or do you still think that the server has hopes when they solve the bots?

 

Be honest, you would give your word. will they save this server or let it die?