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Overlord class is dead after no response to years of balancing requests from players


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#1 Bustincaps

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 03:59 PM

As the title states.

 

I left this game for roughly 6 months at a time where CoolSam and I were basically the only 2 people left that were playing Overlord as their primary class, and now that I've returned, basically nothing has changed. There were already a few Overlord mains that I stopped seeing ingame (Vossel and MaganeRin, as a few examples), and for good reason. If you read through the last year or two worth or Warrior threads on this forum - maybe even beyond that - all you'll find regarding the Overlord class are cries for help. It's a weak and dead class that has gotten no attention apart from a damage boosting passive that made no real difference to the class' standing in the game's meta, while other classes have gotten quick responsive buffs and adjustments based off of the feedback given in other class threads. At this point, I have basically stopped playing the class (my favorite class of 9 years of playing) because it's simply not viable. It's one of the slowest clearing PvE classes, has mediocre boss damage, is painfully average in the PvP room, and is damn near useless in any kind of BSQ or EW gameplay. This is a shame, since it's one of the most involvement demanding classes in the game. If you play this class, you're not simply x spamming or using 1 skill as you wipe through the game. You are playing it, and with no reward. What I'm curious about now is why this class has been neglected after years of the players asking for it to receive some attention. Here are some recent examples of ignored requests by the Overlord community - if you can even call 5 or so players a community...since there are literally that few Overlords - that were completely ignored.

https://forums.warpp...d-attack-speed/

 

https://forums.warpp...l-death-snatch/

 

https://forums.warpp...overlord-skill/

 

https://forums.warpp...n-and-overlord/

 

https://forums.warpp...lance-proposal/

 

Before making this post, I reread all of the above links. The past requests by the community aren't anywhere near game changing and certainly not game breaking. If anything, they're not even asking enough. The only things I would say are unrealistic is the 370% a.speed cap mentioned in the first link (while the cap is too low for a class with such a slow animation, 370% is ridiculous) and debuffs on Death Snatch. This is an old game and it makes sense to me to tweak some of the less used classes in the game to open up more content for the players and stimulate both the game's economy and the cash shop's use. If this class is made playable in the relevant end-game content, more people will be building new characters. This is a good thing for the game. So what I would like is a response from the community and staff...

What does the community as a whole think about this? Why haven't the staff responded to the player's requests/suggestions on this class and other dead classes like Ninja? Who even plays this class in 2018 besides CoolSam and Qsuke that has true investment in the character and is active in more than PvE?


Edited by Bustincaps, 30 October 2018 - 04:39 PM.

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#2 Timymi

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 06:35 PM

Every class has its own feature.So maybe you think it is too old for you to play which do not represent other will not play this class.

"It's one of the slowest clearing PvE classes, has mediocre boss damage, is painfully average in the PvP room, and is damn near useless in any kind of BSQ or EW gameplay.''   <.< Wait, are you sure? PVE I think it is the one behind savage who is easy get sss in dgns and expert quicker than invoker. I know, this class is not too skill-able for player but it can play is enough. So if this class cant play, why GM dont delete it?OK, ok, I dont pvp,so I dont know that. :(

Seem like no popular game of WP which cant be fixed bug itself....

'You are playing it, and with no reward.' <.< Reward for overload is those buff, I like those. :)

'370% a.speed cap' <.< Emmmm, so you want unlimited attack speed? That will help alot. :P But, this is official server and producer want to make some new stuff so they can nerfed previous content like which you say.  That maybe is a balance. :( 

By the way, my wish is play whole class of this game. Now, overload is my last one. :P

(sorry for my bad english. :(  

Just my opinion, if above make you feel bad, my apologize.... )


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#3 KuchikiRukkia

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 12:02 PM

As a new player I would like to have some improvement for Overlords since every other player tells me to play another class instead of Overlord.


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#4 7729170822175338137

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 02:27 PM

Overlords are a class designed for a different game- a game with no Elements and equipments between +0~+10. They are actually quite strong if this were the case, but they scale extremely poorly with Elements and enchantments.
 
In PvE, while they are decent at clearing small monsters, they are reliant on a party for higher level dungeons. They're role in a team is not damage, but rather buffs. Whenever I have an Overlord in my DoD party, I always think, "Oh boy, 10 ATK buff for me!" and not even pay attention to the Overlord's almost non-existent DPS. It's ironic that Overlord has become a better support than Invokers (in terms of buffs), and Invokers are able to deal a vast amount more DPS compared to Overlords.
 
In 1v1 PvP with low gear (both weapon and armor), Overlords are decent as I mentioned above.
In 1v1 PvP with high gear, Overlords gets out DPS'ed by pretty much every other class. Their Bloody Roar skill often deals more damage to the Overlord than it does to the opponent.
In group PvP and BSQ, this class is just a stun bot every 30seconds. In EW, the only advantage(?) of having this class in EW is to dilute the enemy's quest pool. Other than that, they are just a huge liability as they often donate points to enemy team.
 
I haven't read all the proposals above, but from the few I've seen, it would help in the 1v1s, but I don't think they really help in group PVP/BSQ/EW. 
 
Personally, I think reducing the effects of Elements (mostly ATK) and reducing the effectiveness of DEF/MDEF would greatly help this class. I don't really know why some skills only use base weapon ATK/MATK for calculations where as all damage uses the total DEF/MDEF of the character. Maybe skills that use weapon base to calculate damage should also use only the armor bases to calculate damage dealt? Probably not possible/too much work required though.

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#5 Bustincaps

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 04:26 PM

Every class has its own feature.So maybe you think it is too old for you to play which do not represent other will not play this class.

"It's one of the slowest clearing PvE classes, has mediocre boss damage, is painfully average in the PvP room, and is damn near useless in any kind of BSQ or EW gameplay.''   <.< Wait, are you sure? PVE I think it is the one behind savage who is easy get sss in dgns and expert quicker than invoker. I know, this class is not too skill-able for player but it can play is enough. So if this class cant play, why GM dont delete it?OK, ok, I dont pvp,so I dont know that. :(

Seem like no popular game of WP which cant be fixed bug itself....

'You are playing it, and with no reward.' <.< Reward for overload is those buff, I like those. :)

'370% a.speed cap' <.< Emmmm, so you want unlimited attack speed? That will help alot. :P But, this is official server and producer want to make some new stuff so they can nerfed previous content like which you say.  That maybe is a balance. :(

By the way, my wish is play whole class of this game. Now, overload is my last one. :P

(sorry for my bad english. :(  

Just my opinion, if above make you feel bad, my apologize.... )

 

I mean no offense but a lot of what you've shared here is misinformation or simply a misunderstanding of what I posted initially due to language barrier. Also, this thread is mainly about endgame and the few valid points you mentioned are regarding the leveling process... which isn't really an important matter. The mention of 370% a.speed cap was not my own suggestion, but rather a suggestion from another player in one of the links I provided.

 

 

Overlords are a class designed for a different game- a game with no Elements and equipments between +0~+10. They are actually quite strong if this were the case, but they scale extremely poorly with Elements and enchantments.
 
In PvE, while they are decent at clearing small monsters, they are reliant on a party for higher level dungeons. They're role in a team is not damage, but rather buffs. Whenever I have an Overlord in my DoD party, I always think, "Oh boy, 10 ATK buff for me!" and not even pay attention to the Overlord's almost non-existent DPS. It's ironic that Overlord has become a better support than Invokers (in terms of buffs), and Invokers are able to deal a vast amount more DPS compared to Overlords.
 
In 1v1 PvP with low gear (both weapon and armor), Overlords are decent as I mentioned above.
In 1v1 PvP with high gear, Overlords gets out DPS'ed by pretty much every other class. Their Bloody Roar skill often deals more damage to the Overlord than it does to the opponent.
In group PvP and BSQ, this class is just a stun bot every 30seconds. In EW, the only advantage(?) of having this class in EW is to dilute the enemy's quest pool. Other than that, they are just a huge liability as they often donate points to enemy team.
 
I haven't read all the proposals above, but from the few I've seen, it would help in the 1v1s, but I don't think they really help in group PVP/BSQ/EW. 
 
Personally, I think reducing the effects of Elements (mostly ATK) and reducing the effectiveness of DEF/MDEF would greatly help this class. I don't really know why some skills only use base weapon ATK/MATK for calculations where as all damage uses the total DEF/MDEF of the character. Maybe skills that use weapon base to calculate damage should also use only the armor bases to calculate damage dealt? Probably not possible/too much work required though.

 

 

Exactly. It's a fantastic class, but the power creep that has taken place with the other classes over the years has left Overlord far behind. This is why the class has had so many requests for attention; it needs to be brought up to the level of the other classes. I do agree that the class has great party buffs but that's not the purpose of the class. It's the game's 2-handed Barbarian class, and anyone who has played any type of MMO knows that the 2-handed Barbarian class is meant to be a heavy duty DPS class...if not the highest DPS in the game. This is the common trend of such a class, and it's remarkably lackluster here in DS. Regarding your mention of PvP and BSQ, you're totally right. Stumblebum brings great utility to multi PvP, but without any other strengths, a short-duration AoE stun simply isn't enough when its main DPS source is airborne and the meta classes are all ground DPS. I agree with the suggestions given in the past regarding an improved stun chance on Death Snatch as a start; this would help give air-DPS classes (like both Warriors, both Thieves, and even Archers) more purpose in multi PvP since there would be a better way of transitioning an enemy back to the ground rather than them escaping and teammates getting angry. Other than this, it may take some creativity from the staff and community to give this class more usefulness in PvP other than 1v1... because not many people even bother with 1v1 anymore.


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#6 Coolsam

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 09:46 PM

Oh boy...this topic.

 

Now given recent balance patches and some updates Overlords did get some side-effect buffs. For example; Soul Gems allow you to shorten the gap between Min and Max attack (The Overlord's Achilles heel for it's damage). Additionally, other classes that Overlord used to greatly struggle with did get the necessary nerfs in some places. However... this I don't think is enough on it's own. As said classes still have an edge over Overlord. But I'll go into it's major flaw;

 

Overlord has always been consistently balanced across the board in terms of PvE and PvP but things just kept getting stronger OR bring more to the table than Overlord can. The term Power-Creep is actually appropriate. As throughout the chapters more and more pushed ahead where Overlord's sort of sat in a plateau of sorts only taking a major dip during the 2nd part of Galaxia which is recovered in Arcadia 1 because of Element redesign. Overlord is raw damage, with minor CC (Stumblebum is a thing, also Hammer-Crush lock actually sacrifices a lot of damage to do). However, 9/10 classes all have something else alongside a more consistent form of damage or stronger forms of CC or even both; (Note; This list is based on PvP performances.)

  • Dragoon; Incredible catching and locking. Said to still be top in 1vs1.
  • Savage; Sustained Damage and an easy to learn Lock Combo
  • Ninja; Good burst with high Crits, Wood Rush and Rocket Punch for CC.
  • Invoker; High Sustained damage (Even after PvP nerfs) and amazing CC
  • Sorcerer; The current S-Tier in Group PvP for the sheer dominance of it's rather absurd Blizzard. Also skill canceling Ice Shots of Frozen Shot and incredible durability and decent damage.
  • Sentinel; Amazing zoning, support CC, disruption and okay damage.
  • Destroyer; Does burst damage much better for lower investment whilst also having great sustained damage.
  • Summoner; Golgon Zoning and Disruption, Dark Knight Damage, Non-Helix Shot X-spam for Sustained DPS, tons of CC by itself.
  • Twin; A jack of all trades, master of well...formerly all but Ghost Fighter disabling made catching a little harder.

In everyone's top-class lists for PvP; Overlord is often placed in a sort of lower-to-middle ground. Usually it's placed higher than Dragoon and maybe equal to Savage because well...one was nerfed from Brawl's Meta Knight OP to a sort of CC-Bot with great 1v1 and the other has such a broad range from Terrible Headspin Spammer to Probably the Best Friend you'll have as a teammate that like the Overlord they're sort of Wild-Cards in your PvP/BSQ team unless you knew they were good. Only unlike Overlord they bring more of what's important; Ground-DPS.

 

It's far better to keep something ground-bound and damage it to death than to launch and risk escaping. Especially in an unbalanced nightmare of a mode like BattleSquare and the Point-focused Emporia War. But Wyvern>Storm is the bread and butter, the proper send-off to the combo to ensure the Burst and...it launches. There's Gust Slash>Bears>Death Stinger though! But...that has minor-launches and knockback. Also...Overlord is very ping-reliant because Gust Slash and Sword Dance are very susceptible to Lag-Walk. Also it's launches can be susceptible to it as well. We can't permanently fix Player-Player interactions on server and connection as the game isn't optimized to that level. (Yet?) It's a shame because Curse and -Max HP debuffs are very strong vs. tanky opponents but both of those skills launches as well so it's more a game of; Debuff when frozen, otherwise provide a lame-mans lock that halves your potential damage (Which is already meh to begin with). They can catch okay but when the mandatory group PvP class hard-counters you by just throwing Fire Symbol in your general direction because Spoiler Warning; EVERY FLINCH CANCELS YOUR SKILLS! you're kind of in over your head.

 

Now for PvE; Truth be told they aren't bad per say. Like I said; Consistently Balanced. They just need more investment than other classes. Elga soloing (I know it's an 8-man raid) is among the higher required gear-walls. (Only surpassing maybe Savages, Dragoons and Sorcerers.) And aside from maybe the final fight in the Destiny Dungeon even X-spam classes, which the dungeon was programmed to work against, are stronger. F1 spam they're...good actually. They can clear waves fast, higher atk builds can one/two-shot bosses. Also Expert Mode they're good as well.

 

It's sort of when you really get to end-game it's apparent but in an earlier time and lower gears it's actually pretty much in the Overlord's favor.

 

Overlord isn't bad per-say; Just...unable to be realized because the game is built against it in a sense.


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