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The great AFK debate (ft. KSing & Auto-Casting)


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#26 Ralen

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 08:05 PM

As someone who uses AFK builds quite a bit, my take is that it is an extremely helpful way to level and a good reward for my heavy cash shop use and I plan to keep using the equipment for more exp and drops. When I level with the build I try to pick places which won't interrupt other's leveling such as in dead-ends or other places monsters usually collect. If while I'm there I get 'KS' I feel that it's on me for taking too long to kill the mobs I'm tanking and I don't hold it against the other player since as the GMs say it is FFA if I'm not actively engaging. I don't think I've ever PMed anyone to complain about KS either. If I look over at my laptop and notice someone camping next to me killing everything off my character for a few minutes I usually just wing to a different spot so they can't use my characters as a free tank. Also like Ash had mentioned I normally I have as many as 7 vend shops in Prontera and so for me adding 1-2 more clients to AFK so I make more money/exp doesn't change things too much.

In general I'm very grateful I am able to use this build. Of my four max level characters the only 175 I got from grinding was my AB. My Gen got to 175 from BB and BMX3 from OCP but my latest two 175s were Sorc then AB with AFK build in Scaraba and NCT. Appreciating the benefits of the build is why I made a guide for other ABs who get stuck in the 150 range so they have another option to get max level. As someone who doesn't WoE my gear is always open to be viewed while I use the build and if anyone asked I've done my best to answer questions on how to get started and what stats are best since I feel this should just be one more option available for anyone willing to invest the time or money to gather the required items.

I am grateful the GMs are taking more serious steps to address the issues exposed by the AFK build by reconfiguring the servers to allow resets of the more popular maps during the week. I saw the previous attempts not work so well so I'm glad the one that actually works of resetting the server will be more common.

Anyway as one of the biggest boosters of this play style that is my take and the only other thing I want to say is I'd hope everyone can chill out with the insults especially now that the GMs have taken care of the monster spawn issue which I felt was where most of the anger came from.


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#27 Fuuton

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 09:01 PM

I think AFK autocasting for people who are already end-game is rather efficient. I have 4 active accounts (i actually play them), all filled minus 3 slots on one account and most 175'd through normal means of leveling.

Played since 2007, always doing things the tough way. Learning actual player skill through failed repetition, grinding out insane amounts of levels manually, studying monster patterns or instance traits, etc. Now im older; less motivated to actively level out my armies. IMO, i went through all the bullshiz with it. IMO, i deserve to autocast simply because i understand the required morality behind it and have actively leveled multiples of the same class too many times. I actively leveled every member of my genetic army to 175, and half my sura army was also manually leveled. Im at the point where im like you know what? F leveling manually for these classes which i have armies of. I need a break.

This is coming from someone who never started autocasting right off the bat though. I did everything the normal way, way too many times. Now, with autocast gear present and available, why should i continue to level my half-used sura army manually when i can instead AFK auto-cast it and go actively play my gen army and farm instances?

There's a degree of cleverness involved with those who choose to autocast to lessen time constraints to favor other areas of the game or even real life activities (like being with your family or partner). Lets talk about the autocaster who chooses to autocast to save his marriage because his wife is b!tching at him for spending too much time on ragnarok. Or the autocaster who has to spent 24/7 on hospice care taking care of elderly people or their grandparents or whatever, and can't actively be around the computer enough but still wishes to play? Every single case/reasoning is different.

But the thing is, people need to be smart about autocasting if AFK. If you're afk, you have no room to bitch about getting mob jacked since you're not even present to see it. You're not there to respond, and you might possibly be interfering with the signboard quests of others, etc. People are not going to wait for your slow autocasts to kill monsters with lots of HP. Its asinine. For this reason, AFK autocasters should try to avoid maps with signboard counts (places like NCT/TI). You most definitely do not have the kind of protection that you'd like to think you have in these maps. Instead, you should pool together a few friends and go find some backdoor place to autocast in. Places that dont have signboards, preferably.

However, in the case where an AFK autocaster is being targeted, then this is actually an issue. In cases like this, you need to record/screenie and be adamant as F about sending in ticket updates if you want your justice. A replay can last for hours and hours on end. You could sleep through and it would still be rolling when you woke up. From my experiences with autocasting and facing malcontent autocast haters, one ticket/experience alone with a person is not enough if they are simply jacking you for mob and you ask them to stop. You need multiple cases/forms of evidence. Said person has to be relentless and continuous in their attacks, enough so that you can provide evidence to basically build up a case.

You also need to let up and be giving, too. Know the battles that are worth it. If some guy is coming to where you are autocasting and sticking around to pick up tokens while KSing you.. just let it go. They'll be gone in 20-30 minutes and you'll have your peace again. They're simply there to farm tokens, not deliberately KS you when they barely understand the rules. Its not worth picking a fight over, nor all the drama that comes along with it like filling out tickets/recording/sh!!t talking battles, etc. 

Learn to share, people.


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#28 folkvangr

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 09:50 PM

my problem is : 

 

1. they holding spot for 24/7 on popular map area. if you gonna afk go something like orc dungeon or something something faraway from civilization where normal people usually play.

 

 

 

There's a degree of cleverness involved with those who choose to autocast to lessen time constraints to favor other areas of the game or even real life activities (like being with your family or partner). Lets talk about the autocaster who chooses to autocast to save his marriage because his wife is b!tching at him for spending too much time on ragnarok. Or the autocaster who has to spent 24/7 on hospice care taking care of elderly people or their grandparents or whatever, and can't actively be around the computer enough but still wishes to play? Every single case/reasoning is different.

 

2. everybody has their reasoning, this could be applied to normal user too, they only have limited time to play  but by parking your char 24/7 on popular map area. you bothering them, so. learn to share ? 


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#29 MythicalFox

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 10:16 PM

AFK autocasting only won't be a problem if:

 

- Spawns aren't actually affected by the autocasting (tarot cards *cough*)

- Killing speed is reasonable

- AFK Levelers made aware that if they are AFKing they WILL be KS'd

 

That being said, I do not condone, not at all, the autocast builds. Actually I do love autocast builds, like in Sura (Mental Strenght), Super Novice and Shadow Chaser. But those builds are being affected by the stigma of the AFK-levelers.

 

My take on this is:

 

- Change the script of RoR and ARoR as to remove Tarot Card of Fate from its skill list, and make sure no other skills are causing the monster spawns to yeet from existance.

 

I do appreciate that this next maintenance will be a HUGE step on fixing the issue, but it still upsets me that only the TI maps are being targeted for the attempted patch. Other popular maps (i.e. Scaraba Hall and Sunken Ship) are also affected by the issue.


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#30 mashaa

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 10:33 PM

Ha ha.
Funny thread heh?
They (away from keyboard levelers), are playing victims huh?

AF k levelers made current maps bug > low spawn > hold mob (not fast killing) > mob spawn delayed+low spawn again > no more mobs left for active levelers > trigger to do KS or go home > AF k levelers angry when they KS-ed by others.

Excuse me, hello dude? Can go back read from the first step?
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#31 Fuuton

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 10:49 PM

my problem is : 

 

1. they holding spot for 24/7 on popular map area. if you gonna afk go something like orc dungeon or something something faraway from civilization where normal people usually play.

 

 

2. everybody has their reasoning, this could be applied to normal user too, they only have limited time to play  but by parking your char 24/7 on popular map area. you bothering them, so. learn to share ? 

 

i actually do just that. i autocast in a place far away from civilization; a place that actually requires manual questing just to gain access to. im well-aware of the issues with popular maps and for that reason specifically, i avoid those maps. you'll never see me AFK autocast in NCT or TI, although i am definitely guilty of actively autocasting in TI because its super efficient if you're well geared.

Case in Point:

Spoiler


do i keep my character parked there 24/7? yes, if i can, because for the most part it is silent and no one bothers me so there are almost 0 issues. technically not 24/7 though, due to random disconnects, server restarts, maint, and the fact that it doesnt take long to 175. there have been several issues involving ill-mannered activity from hostile players towards me and a few of my autocast friends; issues with which we banded together and sent many tickets and pieces of evidences in as proof as a group to get said problems taken care of, which they were. GMs wound up favoring our side due to the obviousness of these directed attacks. Whether or not the ill-mannered hostiles were perma banned or temp banned is unknown, but what is known is that these hostiles either gave up, were warned, or were temp banned as punishment, and as a result, we have regained our peace.

so i hate to say it but your logic only applies to popular map areas, which i am totally aware of. since where i am is not "popular" as you say, the rules are different. they are more favorable to all players, AFK-casters and active alike. certain times people come and still KS us, but we can generally get a feel for what their intentions are almost immediately. if they are monster token hunting, i tend to look the other way. if they sit there for hours an dhours and hours on end, then obviously i have a problem with this.

also you sound rather silly trying to backfire my own words at me. i consider it to be a rather chump tactic that people use when they fail to read examples of what was already posted, and when they fail to demonstrate any of their own ideas which might actually better the community.
 


Edited by Fuuton, 10 July 2019 - 10:51 PM.

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#32 CKDD

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 11:18 PM

i suggest solution for this afk issue: refund for all afk-supporting gears (and all ores related to these gears)


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#33 Fuuton

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 12:44 AM

that would be really tough to tackle, CK. aside from taking forever to trace who had which gear and actually did the refining, it still wouldnt solve the problems of all the gears in game that also provide a means of autocasting but come from natural instances within RO itself (outside of cash shop i mean). ifrit & darklord cards, alchemy gloves, mutant dragonoid cards, PoH, etc, the most important one being RoR coming from ifrit himself.

people would still find ways to autocast even if they ripped every single OCP related autocast item from the game. we'd be right back to square one all over again.

 


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#34 Ashuckel

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 03:15 AM

i'm getting flashbacks of an argument a good while ago that if a player is taking too long to kill mobs(even legitimately), he is mob training and disrupting other ppl gameplay, so they shouldnt be respected and be KSed :v

Killing speed can vary drastically regardless if active or not, not everyone has superb gear, sometimes its even just a playstyle preference or actual physical disabilities, let's just not be friends to each others if your board will take 4 extra seconds to be completed, as if leveling was slow on iRO to begin with(yeah, if you havent noticed, iRO is by far the fastest server to level up)
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#35 StunTosMati

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 03:47 AM

well ragnarok will change to auto play like mobile game now???

well future RO later in TI all is afk player for lvling?like orc dungeon where so many ppl afk for lvling homun?

how do u think?after lvl 175 they sale it in RMT...

so what point to play in future?


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#36 VModCinnamon

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 03:55 AM

Good morning,

I have this far removed a selective amount of posts for very obvious reasons.

If you wish to engage in the discussion then you are very welcome to do so, if you do not like the nature of the thread at all then please play the rule of "reading only" instead of flame baiting. Thank you for understanding.


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#37 EmoMidget

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 03:59 AM

Just curious, do you see an AFKer in here complaining about people clearing mobs on them?  Seems this thread is about being argumentative for no reason, with nobody even debating the other side.

 

My bad dude, was kind of ticked off when I first wrote it. Seeing few people acting as victims again and again in other threads, when they were infact the exact people who created all that -_- last few weeks pulled a nerve. On the other hand this thread is title as a DEBATE XD I did edit out the toxic parts as much as I could.


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#38 Benderama

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 06:11 AM

It would not be hard at all for iro to implement a idle disconnect timer and to check time stamp logs to know if a player is utilizing macros or not even without gamegaurd/nprotect.  No need to change items.  It just requires Warp portal to declare they are against or for AFK auto leveling and implement the necessary check n balances.

 

This whole discussion is rather meaningless until warp portal comes out and makes a stance one way or another. The choice has consequences and they know it does.  Either way they choose, it will upset a significant amount of players. That is why these topics are only really glazed over. 

 

I firmly believe afk autocasting leveling is honestly in the realms of a game Exploit. It really should not be permitted. But IRO is a odd place, exploits get allowed to stay for quite awhile until the damage is already done. 

 

For example, LoD leveling exploit was the main reason i stopped played IRO chaos many years ago. Yet after that exploit was allowed for soo long, iro eventually did change it to no longer be possible. But the game was never honestly the same again. The damage was already done.

 

This whole AFK autocaster stuff is a similar situation where it is drastically changing how the game is. Anyone can justify the petty things such as "It cost me money!" , "but its possible in game to do so!", but the truth is if a idle timer was implemented it would stop afk AUTO casting in its tracks and it would make macro users &/or botters stand out like a sore thumb. Many people who utilized the AFK auto casting to level would quickly find themselves unable to do so and likely attempt macros eventually leading to them being banhammered. 

 

Many players would complain about the change. Just as many players are complaining its being possible (Situation similiar to the change on Devils Hand and spartacus, I am still sorely upset about that change espically while other classes just get boosted more and more)

 

Ultimately warp portals choice of inaction is a answer in itself. Until they make it impossible to do so in game, you should just know they allow it. They got their own priorities after all. 

 

Fact is, it is a exploit. Fact also is, until it is resolved to no longer be beneficial to do so in game it will always be present.  IRO used to have VERY firm rules about this, and many other things that just are no longer enforced or considered offenses.  The line is so blurred it's ridiculous. Personally, I don't think AFK leveling in any way shape or form should be allowed. But I've AFK leveled as well(with homunculus utilizing a 1 hour timer to remind me to come back and feed and also auto cast gears on AFK), as hypocritical as that may seem, if it was not permitted people would not do it. 

 

Words on a forum saying one way or another is not enough. We all got opinions about AFK auto casters and any action warp portal could possibly do would affect us all positively and negatively. The game needs checks and balances, and the game already has checks and balances.  Warp portals inaction to disable the benefits of AFK auto casting truthfully means they approve of it. Until that changes, this whole debate is rather meaningless.

 

 

2 more cents on the KSing topic of Auto casting.  To whome it may concern....crying like a child when you get your mobs killed by someone 1 shotting  and threatening to report them is not a solution. In fact, if your solution is to flood the GM team with false reports and harass a player in game with threats is your solution, let it be known. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

 

It is a fact that player sprites are not ALWAYS visible, graphical errors are real, missed packets are real, just because you get KS'd non stop for 4 hours by a 1 shotter, it doesn't mean they are personally attacking you. You may very well be completely invisible on their screen or any number of LEGITIMATE reasons your getting ksed. 

 

Again too, this is a problem that could EASILY be resolved with a in game solution if warp portal wished to address it. The simple fact is, their inaction to do so, means it will continue as is until they do. 

 

I truly sympathize for the warp portal team that has to read over all these posts and reports. Just think/imagine what good things the warp portal team could be accomplishing if they weren't consistently flooded with childish dilemmas. Ah rite, it's a game for all ages, I forgot...

 

 

At anycase:   is appropriate on the situation on many levels. Mainly my driving point is:  "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice!"   So just know warp portals inaction is a clear answer already, there's no point to debating it.  Warp portal is not soo oblivious they don't see the effects its doing to the main hunting areas. They are well aware. 

 

 

-------------------

 

How each individual chooses to play may not align with many others. But by choosing to AFK level, and do mostly solo things, it takes away from a big part of what made iro what it was... I enjoy IRO's endless grind because of the chat with action part...  I think I first met emo on low TI about a year and half ago..... I met Fuuton randomly in payon cave.... I met scuba threw impact.... active random killing and leveling is a significant part of meeting people... Had AFK auto cast leveling been a thing prior to, I'd prolly never have met any of you.  Now since AFK auto caster gears hit, only time I really encouter or even see your charaters are when your in alberta heading to ET or setup somewhere autocasting... Sure I could reach out on discord, but it does take away something very real and significant to the game.  This falls into the false thinking of the game is really less active than it really is..... It's just the social players are going the route of anti social.... And there is truth that when afk autocasters are present on active leveling maps such as gramps/or bounty boarded maps, it makes it near impossible to setup a group of random players.... AFK autocasting is quite simply killing the socializing aspect of the game, warp portal knows it, you all know it, but does it really matter? Well that's for warp portal to decide, and they seem to already have made that choice. 

 

Anyone remember being a kid and wanting to brag about some high level on some meaningless console RPG? Then there's always that one kid with a gameshark/game genie/ or programmable controller that just insta accomplished something?  Sure ya do..... Yeah, auto casting is the same situation.... except when it comes to a MMORPG, your charater does effect re spawn rate of monsters. It's unavoidable and a reality. If this was a stand alone RPG, sure, use your game shark, fancy controller, or whatever, but since it is a MMORPG, your choice to AFK auto level is effecting others, and others will make a choice on how to interact with that treatment... it just simply is what it is... Won't change unless game dynamics change...


Edited by Benderama, 11 July 2019 - 07:07 AM.

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#39 mildcontempt

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 06:29 AM

i'm getting flashbacks of an argument a good while ago that if a player is taking too long to kill mobs(even legitimately), he is mob training and disrupting other ppl gameplay, so they shouldnt be respected and be KSed :v

Killing speed can vary drastically regardless if active or not, not everyone has superb gear, sometimes its even just a playstyle preference or actual physical disabilities, let's just not be friends to each others if your board will take 4 extra seconds to be completed, as if leveling was slow on iRO to begin with(yeah, if you havent noticed, iRO is by far the fastest server to level up)

 

Bruh, you have entered some kind of zen state lately. Maybe I should try deleting one of my accounts and see if I get some of that chillness. 

 

Anyway, +1 agree. 

 

Dunno why it's so hard to just type "Hey are you there?" before KSing, but people will cling to all manner of excuses to be jerks I guess. 


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#40 MythicalFox

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 07:03 AM

Dunno why it's so hard to just type "Hey are you there?" before KSing, but people will cling to all manner of excuses to be jerks I guess. 

 

Typing is slow, specially in a map with aggressive mobs and with a bmx running.

Also, if you grind the same map for some time, it's easy to figure out (sometimes) which characters are AFK Levelers. They're usually there everyday.

 

Resumindo, "sem tempo, irmão" :v


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#41 Ashuckel

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 07:07 AM

just because you get KS'd non stop for 4 hours by a 1 shotter, it doesn't mean they are personally attacking you. You may very well be completely invisible on their screen or any number of LEGITIMATE reasons your getting ksed.


yeah man, for 4 entire straight hours a total accident

ha


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#42 Benderama

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 07:14 AM

yeah man, for 4 entire straight hours a total accident

ha

 

It happens, about two weeks ago I was on a hard NTC push.... Appearantly I was ksing someone to the point they felt the need to flood my rodex. I was Beelz wing 1 shot bmx3 board repeating. Their player sprite was bugged in some manner that it did not show up on my screen. I flat out did not know they existed until i got frustrated seeing soo manny ghost items on the group wasting my bmx3 time that I needed to restart my client.  Ice skills, they make sprites bug, creates ghost items , ghost mobs, ghost players even, always has been that way, not sure why.  But yeah.... it happens.... it just does...


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#43 Ashuckel

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 07:18 AM

because surely you would not have noticed the monster sprites using their attacking animations when you saw them, regardless if you see a person or not, or notice the movement patern of the pack of monsters all moving to the same direction, or "insert cue of monster already engaged in combat reason". But hey, whatever brings peace to mind right

Edited by Ashuckel, 11 July 2019 - 07:19 AM.

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#44 Benderama

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 07:34 AM

not going to argue semantics, fact is it happens, and not always intentional. There is a very significant difference between intentional harassment and unintentional ksing. Regardless of the location or specific playstyles.

Using a bloody branch to murder a-_-... that’s harassment. Standing ontop of someone intentionally killing ontop of them... that’s harassment.... flooding someone with pm or rodex’s because you feel justified... that’s harassment....


Insta killing a pile of mobs.... not knowing a player is there... that just happens... not harassment.
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#45 mildcontempt

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 07:51 AM

Typing is slow, specially in a map with aggressive mobs and with a bmx running.

Also, if you grind the same map for some time, it's easy to figure out (sometimes) which characters are AFK Levelers. They're usually there everyday.

 

Resumindo, "sem tempo, irmão" :v

 

It really isn't since once you type it the first time, you can just hit enter -> up -> enter.

 

Or bind a macro for it in RO's interface if it's such an issue. 

 

I have my alt +1 set to "Boo go get a job!" for funsies. 

 

If you know someone is AFK for sure then obviously my statement doesn't apply, it's for the first time interaction to establish who isn't AFK so you're not being a jerk to someone. 

 

And if you are on a BMX3 and don't want to spend time on it, just flywing away. I do that all the time. 

 

edit: typos.


Edited by mildcontempt, 11 July 2019 - 07:54 AM.

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#46 Benderama

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 07:53 AM

Opinions aside it would not be impossible for warp portal to implement a KS detection and passive KS counter that triggers when something like 10 KS kills occur it inacts a 15 min temp ban or the red “...” skill/chat muting thing that occurs when a player floods the chat.

Fully resolvable scenarios. My driving point is simply since these types of checks and balances are not being done, warp portal is being very clear in their stance on the “debates”.

KS intentional and unintentional is a solvable problem
Stopping afk leveling is a solvable problem


Warp portal is already clear on on their stance by not implementing such solutions. Weather it’s because they are not allowed to or if they simply choose not to is unknown. But anycase, a debate on the topic is rather pointless.
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#47 Ashuckel

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 08:00 AM

you put too much faith on the coding capabilities of a 2 decades old half ruined on launch mmo with a complete spaguetti code whose development team has been completely changed multiple times over
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#48 Fuuton

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 08:23 AM

you put too much faith on the coding capabilities of a 2 decades old half ruined on launch mmo with a complete spaguetti code whose development team has been completely changed multiple times over

 

to be fair, homie owns a CNC machine if that's not saying something about the skillset required to use one. i'd like to think if he were part of the team himself, he'd be capable of making a positive impact.

but you are most definitely right about the development team getting shuffled out constantly. its the equivalent of building up a TV series with the main cast for 2-3 seasons only to dip out several of the mains for replacements due to money issues for season 4; or the equivalent of school board members getting shuffled out every 2 years only to have 'the new system' be re-written by some fools who merely plan to shuffle things around for the sake of looking good so they themselves can dip out to a higher position, leaving all of the staff below them annoyed and salty.

i still laugh about that one GM who, after specifying the location/time/date of my second ifrit card drop, still asked me how i managed to obtain this mvp card, even after directly listing in the title "Verification of Ifrit Card from BB's In Juperos". Come on now...


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#49 Benderama

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 11:03 AM

you put too much faith on the coding capabilities of a 2 decades old half ruined on launch mmo with a complete spaguetti code whose development team has been completely changed multiple times over


"Faith" is not the problem. I would like to believe I am well aware of the "coding capabilities" more so than most, definitely more so than your average player. I do not feel the need to drop my resume here though. Statements such as "half ruined on launch mmo with a complete spaguetti code" does not help the situation. Blind statements like this is actually a key part of the problem. You are entitled to your opinion, but that is simply all it is and nothing more.

My case and point will remain it is fully doable to put in game controls and enforce them accordingly.

As for the debate on KS and AFK autocast, warp portal has chosen to not participate. Beyond that it becomes a personal ethical/moral decision, and everyone will have a different view. So why bother with such a debate.

Personally I'd rather warp portal focus on making triple attack crit function so a ASPD crit sura could be a viable thing.... But even that has weighted opinions/risks/unknowns. Such as what is to stop a zerking EDP'd GX from running with trip hit crit with Battle Surcoat... Nothing as it is not class restricted, and if they were to make it restricted, players would chime in their opinions one way or another, ultimately what would be a amazing update for SURA would be a overpowering update to many other classes leaving sura still behind on this aspect... It's a give and take scenario with restrictions and sides where the FEW tend to go blind on the MASSES it's affecting.

Most everyone participating in these debates are veteran players in one manner or another. Yet the unsaid or unaddressed portion is the bureaucracy aspect.

For those who can't seem to grasp this here's a simple way to think about it.

GRAVITY = OWNER
WARPPORTAL = CONTRACT HOLDER

Be aware just because it is possible, warp portal may very well be restricted due to a large number of things. Like it or not, but just be aware of this. It is also why IRO will never die as it is GRAVITY's baby, NOT warp portals. It's one of the many reasons IRO survived for "2 decades" and will continue to do so.

The other side of the coin is the RISK factor. I was genuinely excited for the implementing of the gear swapping feature and rather disappointed when finding it would not be permitted to pull the items onto the player straight from kafra storage. Kindly within irowiki discord channel , where many knowledgeable people dwell, it was explained as it will never be done due to the potential vulnerability it may cause. I firmly believe such vulnerabilities could be addressed and mitigated, but it is a choice none the less. Again, it is just simply what it is.

But back to the debate portion and it being a Ethical/Moral situation. The rules are clear, warp portals stance is clear. Why is this even a debate?

One's ethical/moral choice on the manner is largely opinion based and there will never be a solid agreement among players with very different views.

Here's another comparable example..... Food for thought if nothing else....Maybe it will help bring it into perspective?

Because my computers are CAD machines I am FULLY capable of loading a countless number of clients. My network can handle it, my pc's can handle it, and I have machines to spare. I could let on wards to hundreds of characters run autocasting AFK and just forget about them for weeks on end. Oh rite, the game has a built in restriction of how many clients are allowed to connect from one network domain. I AM FULLY capable of circumventing this restriction via proxy or spoofing. Would it change your opinion on AFK autocasting if I loaded in 50~200 charaters onto a single map , how about ~30 AOE homunculus's on low TI covering the entire map preventing anyone from being able to level? Yes it would. And yes, I really could do such a feat. Does this kill your motivation? If it doesn't, it definitely should.

(My apologies on double posting. Seems I cannot edit the post with the phone)

It’s a bit ridiculous to think one player would load in 150 auto casters or afk levelers one way or another rite?

How about instead... what if 10 end game players decided to load 15 each? Or 15 players 10? Or 30 players load 5? Or 75 players load 2? Or 150 players load 1? Ahhh shoot all are the same end result.....

If seeing this breakdown doesn’t bring it full circle and into perspective nothing will....

I am also known for loading max allowed clients and making formations with homunculus's and mercenaries simply for fun. Because I duo with my wife as much as I can, I had at one point strong desire to load a few clients above the set in place restriction so my wife could duo the same play style together. I even have evidence that I would be permitted to play in such a manner, permission slip essentially. But I CHOOSE NOT TO. It is my ethical choice. Also the Terms of Service is quite clear, 3rd party programs are not permitted. A proxy IS a 3rd party program. This is not a debatable matter, it is FACT. Just as MACRO's are 3rd party programs, it is FACT. Bots are 3rd party programs, FACT. These are not debatable things, yet the line in the sand is somehow often blurry.

Even now as I type this, I am aware that the merger has occurred and server is back up. I am motivated to load in a formation and find out where the restart players are mostly going to pop into and setup to welcome them to the server. Yet I will not do so as it may in fact turn more players away rather than they believe it to be a nice welcoming.

I am often mistaken as a bot or something against the Terms of Service, but no, I fallow the rules to the letter. I value my experience on IRO and will not jeopardize it ever. Even on things grey area things such as proxies I simply will not do.

Also, I would hate for the players freshly coming onto IRO chaos from restart to think my intended welcoming to be something negative. Such as they could perceive this showing of max client homunculus's and mercenaries as potentially a false sign that botting is running rampant and just say to heck with the game. I've spent countless hours explaining to random players that I'm not a bot, and often that is how I socialize and meet others.

Just because you can, does not mean you should. If one hasn't learned that lesson, don't worry, everyone does eventually. Usually those lessons are hard learned.

Another lesson to learn that is running rampant is we all interact with everything a bit differently and all of our opinions are different. That's why they are called personal choices and opinions after all.

Somewhere along the line though it seems people forget personal choices have consequences that effect others. Its all too easy to be blind with how something affects one self and maintain ignorance on how it effects someone else.

Edited by Benderama, 11 July 2019 - 11:57 AM.

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#50 Jowgen

Jowgen

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 08:17 PM

This wouldn't be a large issue if there were enough monsters to go around.

 

How in the world can our server population be at an all time low yet all it takes is one AFK dude in Gramps TI to screw up an entire map.

 

We keep blaming each other for hording but it's the game mechanics and monster flow that make this unbearable.

 

 


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