65 replies to this topic

[jameszay092]

Man I really hope we get more gears that would support windhawk skills because it is getting boring lol

[PantherVFS]

Awesome guide, this has been very helpful! I'm slowly working my way up to 200 so I can go for the job change. Your guide made it easy to figure out where to level from 175.

[Jefuu]

Just posting a thank you to OP because this guide was my go-to for getting to 175 before and now I am using it for leveling up to 250 after my hiatus. Helps me keep updated on the new gear and leveling spots.

 

You're a real one for keeping it updated, Nagaame!

[Jefuu]

Curious to your thoughts on the best Costume Enchant options with the new Ranger stones coming out today for AS and FAS builds especially: http://renewal.playr...il.aspx?id=1617

 

Also, wondering about your comment on Red Dreaming Sheep being harder to beat than Old Camo/Tyrant. Is it due to the extra 30% ACD and more NL cooldown with Wolf Officer to free up garment (since Prism Scarf is just so necessary for leveling it seems)? Additional 10% damage at 250 seems nice when already casting so quickly but I am still 20 levels and some FAS enchants away from maxing out to confirm for myself.

[Nagaame]

Gonna hold off on a guide update until the next update since it's gonna be pretty hefty.

 

Ranger Stones are nice but seem fairly nonessential. To answer your question, FAS is probably Ranger (U), Sniper (M), either Ranger or Sniper II (, and Ranger II (G), and AS is probably Sniper (U), Ranger (M), Ranger? ( idk, and Ranger (G). I don't think I particularly value them above the 20th anniversary set when leveling. They're also fairly mediocre as standalone options. Honestly, I barely value them over getting fun equips for my other characters.

 

The fight between Tyrant and Sheep is very close, but the two are miles ahead of any other option (I may need to update some comments here and there). With 2x PWM and Sniping Shoes, you're already at 75% size multiplier, so it's between 90% total bonus size multiplier (190% total) for Sheep and 100% (200% total) for Tyrant, which maths out to Tyrant trading away 15% ACD for a ~5-6% damage increase or worse. It's a question of how much ACD do you need and what are you sacrificing for it in your build. Getting over 150s of CDR is also great because I've done the flat 150s CDR from solo Wolf Officer and that last second of No Limits is incredibly inconvenient for refreshing.

No definite answers, although I think the strictly optimal FAS build (no MVP) is something like Old Camo Bunny[Acute|Purple Ferus]/Little Garden/Sheep/Assault[Angry Nine Tails]/A.Royal Bow[2xPWM]/Yoichi[Galensis]/Sniping Shoes/Record of Archer[Ominous Heater]/ODR[Ominous Heater]/Ranger(U)/Sniper(M)/Ranger(B)/Ranger II(G), Crit(Dual)/Penetration Weapon, Earring, Pendant/Blitz Shield, Shoes, Armor/Swap in Wolf Officer when refreshing No Limits. I haven't bothered to minmax that hard yet, though.

[Brunzattack]

You said "At 70, grab 2 Magical Stones and do the Overlook Water Dungeon Quests".

 

How do we do that if we're poor and have no zeny?  Isn't that 16 eden badges I have to collect for that?  I'm 96 sniper and only have 6 eden badges so far......

[Nagaame]

If you're over 85 anyway then it doesn't really matter since you can't get in due to the level restriction. In general, Maneater Blossoms/Roots from leveling at Geographers and Sticky Webfoots from Roda Frogs are a great source of early money if you set up a vendor account. 1 Giant Faceworm Snake Skin is 5 Eden Merit Badges, which might be cheaper than buying the Magical Stones outright. If you picked up some 1 Day VIP boxes from the daily login bonus, that would've worked too.

[Jefuu]

Yo, Nagaame, you mentioned this in the maint thread:

 

 

Moonflower Bow

------------------------

MATK + 170.

------------------------

Reduce damage taken from Boss monster by 50%.

------------------------

Reduce damage taken from Players by 40%.

------------------------

For every refine level,

Increase physical and magic damage against all size enemies by 8%.

------------------------

When refined to +7 or higher,

Increase damage of Flame Trap, Swift Trap, Solid Trap, and Deep Blind Trap by 10%.

------------------------

When refined to +9 or higher,

Increase damage of Flame Trap, Swift Trap, Solid Trap, and Deep Blind Trap by additional 15%.

------------------------

Type : Bow

Attack : 160

Weight : 90

Weapon Level : 4

Required Level : 200

Class : Windhawk

 

Versus

 

Moonshine Bow [1]

 

Class : Bow

Weapon Level : 4

Atk : 160 Matk : 170

Weight : 90

Require Level : 200

Usable Job : Windhawk

 

Indestructible in battle.

Reduces the damage taken from boss type enemies by 40%.

Reduces the damage taken from player by 40%.

Reduces the damage taken from Ghost property attack by 20%.

For every upgrade level, increases physical damage on small, medium and large size enemies by 13%.

If upgrade level is 8 or higher, increases the damage of [Hawk Rush] and [Hawk Boomerang] by 25%.

If upgrade level is 10, increases critical damage by 50%.

 

 

Interesting balancing decision for a 0.34% item. Did the math and our version ends up being equal to or worse than A. Royal Bow even at +14, assuming the description is completely correct.

 

 

While it's a shame we're not getting the "Moonshine Bow" you linked, why do you say what we're getting is equal or worse to ARB? I ask because maybe I am still unsure how some of the maths work at the higher end so excuse me if the below is just plain wrong, haha:

• At a more reasonable to obtain +12, MB has ~244 ATK and gives 96% damage modifier to all sized creatures with +30% to M and L creatures with PWM Card. The 50% Boss Monster reduction is nice for MVPing and then the MATK & New Trap bonuses are borderline useless in current meta. 40% Player reduction if you WoE, I guess?
• +12 ARB has ~379 ATK but only gives 15% damage modifier to "attack" (wATK?) with +60% to M and L creatures with 2xPWM Cards. The Ranged bonus is negated by No Limits (if I recall correctly) but it does have CRIT DMG +10% and FAS DMG +20%, which is nice for FAS builds, with some delay/cooldown bonuses on top.

 

Is that "8% per refine" modifier on MB not enough to beat out the extra slot and extra bonuses from ARB? Assuming I am lucky enough to pull, would it be a waste of time trying to super upgrade it compared to sticking with my +12 ARB?

Edited by Jefuu, 05 December 2023 - 12:21 PM.

[Nagaame]

I ran some numbers with my current gear using +12 2x PWM A. Royal vs +12 1x PWM Moonflower, and the numbers were all lower. Even if specific equips can make Moonflower a bit better, it's probably not strong enough to be a 0.34% OCP item.

 

The main thing, I think, is that crit, skill, and ranged multipliers affect damage a lot more, especially with 100 POW giving so much status attack. Status attack is affected by those 3 but not by size multiplier, so it's a pretty big loss.

 

Well, except against small monsters, but there aren't too many of those. Only notable one is Vanilaqus in ami2 lmao

[Jefuu]

Ah, what a shame. Thanks to your guide, I'm pretty much geared out but was looking forward to a new OCP to buy/roll for to try out... but guess not this time. Maybe I'll keep my eyes out for buying the Shooting Shadow Set instead or look into finally doing the Biolabs headgear I have been too lazy to work towards 

[Nagaame]

Big update. Added new stuff from the past month and added Hawk Rush and Crescive Bolt sections.

[Jefuu]

Big update. Added new stuff from the past month and added Hawk Rush and Crescive Bolt sections.

 

Great read and thank you for your hard work! 

 

Interesting to see your update on the Hawk Rush Build. It kinda feels like a return to auto-falcon/warg days (but better if you spam the skill rather than /nc). I ran that build years ago but think I still prefer FAS (with AS for casual leveling) now.

 

A few notes/questions since I spend too much time in this thread   :

1. I noticed that "Assault Suit" is missing from AS and FAS Builds, even as options. Is it because you mention it as BiS so much elsewhere (including in Common Gear) it is assumed to be the go-to or some other reason?
2. Any reason why "Restless Dead Card" is not listed for Armor Cards? I feel like +20 ATK and indestructible weapon/armor (great for specific mobs) is pretty much my go-to for at least leveling or as a solid option when you don't have some crazy MVP Card, haha.
3. Your 2nd post's links for the Crescive Bolt build gear did not work when you posted, unless you are just still working on it.

[Nagaame]

The answer to 1 and 3 is actually just laziness. There's a balance of being explicit about which gears are really worthwhile versus not being too repetitive that I'm still trying to work out. Pretty much all of the time the common gear listings can supplant any section-specific options if the numbers end up working out. Laziness is also why I didn't bother with adding links to Crescive Bolt for now.

 

For Restless Dead, it's worse than Porcellio for ATK, and I've only ever gotten my gear broken in Nogg4, so it kinda just slipped my mind as a situational option. I can figure out a place for it as I continue to revise.

[Jefuu]

With Record of Archer Vol. 2 releasing today, I noticed it has a bunch of bonuses for FAS (nice) but looking at optimized gear, I feel that it still falls short of ODR unless running Arabian Manteau. Since Yoichi just gives so damn much FAS damage, I feel like more of it compared to ODR's 70% Crit would be at a loss. The only thing noteworthy is an extra Accessory card slot... unless I'm missing something major?

 

Record of Archer vol.2 [1]

ASPD + 10%.
Increases physical damage against enemies of all sizes by 6%.
Increase Focused Arrow Strike and Severe Rainstorm damage by 30%.

------------------------

Set Bonus:
Record of Archer vol.2 [1]
Old Camouflage Bunny Hood [1]
                          
For every refine level of helmet,
Increases Focused Arrow Strike damage by 2%.
Reduce After Cast Delay by 1%.

------------------------

Set Bonus:
Record of Archer vol.2 [1]
Old Maestro Song's Hat [1]
                          
OR
                          
Record of Archer vol.2 [1]
Old Dying Swan [1]
                          
Increases ranged physical damage by 2%.
Reduce After Cast Delay by 1%.

------------------------

Set Bonus:
Record of Archer vol.2 [1]
Record of Archer [1]
                          
When equipped by Ranger class:
                          
Reduces the Cooldown of No Limits skill by 90 seconds.
(No Limits skill will be canceled when unequipped.)
Reduce Variable Casting Time of Focused Arrow Strike by 100%.
                          
When equipped by Maestro or Wanderer class:
Reduce SP consumption of Severe Rainstorm skill by 60.
Reduces cooldown of Severe Rainstorm skill by 2 seconds.

------------------------

Set Bonus:
Record of Archer vol.2 [1]
Record of Archer [1]
Old Camouflage Bunny Hood [1]
                          
For every 3 refine level of helmet:
Increases physical damage against all size enemies by 3%.
Increases Focused Arrow Strike damage by 10%.

------------------------

Set Bonus:
Record of Archer vol.2 [1]
Record of Archer [1]
Old Maestro Song's Hat [1]
                          
OR
                          
Record of Archer vol.2 [1]
Record of Archer [1]
Old Dying Swan [1]
                          
For every 3 refine level of helmet:
Increases physical damage against all size enemies by 3%.
Increases Severe Rainstorm damage by 10%.

------------------------

Class : Accessory (Left) 
Def : 0
Weight : 10
Required Level : 100
Jobs : 3rd Archer Class

[Nagaame]

I haven't run the full numbers yet, but:

Acute 5: 80% crit multiplier

Little Garden: 35%

A. Royal: 10%

Galensis: 30%

Sniping Shoes: 25%

Record 1: 15%

total is 195%

 

A. Royal: 20% FAS

Yoichi: 143%

Record 1: 30%

total is 193%

 

given that the numbers are about even and record 2 gives 82% FAS multiplier, 18% size multiplier, and 12% ACD at +12 bunny, I'd say record 2 is better than ODR for damage. The downside is securing enough actual crit since you end up with little to no significant crit bonus.

 

Also not sure if it'll be worth the price given how much more relevant it is for SR performers than for rangers.

[Jefuu]

Good point, I didn't even look into the Crit Rate itself and was just thinking of damage and even then didn't look at all the proper fields... thanks for being the solid math sounding board for my lackluster attempts lol.

 

I know DEF Bypass is needed for Skill Damage but Crit doesn't need it (if I am reading this correctly) so, assuming you can get the rate you need, PDM wouldn't be necessary for a pure FAS-only build since it crits, yeah? I have been leveling my Maestro and was considering trying a little for a Vol 2 anyway so seeing if would be worth replacing on my FAS build too. Gonna log in and check where crit rates will be with buffs/items and without ODR.

 

---

 

EDIT: Holy crap, I bought a Kachua Enriched Box and got the Vol. 2 from a Key so will do some in-game testing I guess 

Edited by Jefuu, 19 December 2023 - 03:17 PM.

[Nagaame]

crit still needs def bypass, but 100% bypass isn't strictly necessary and you can make do with the 70% from a booster shadow

[Jefuu]

After testing, it's very much in favor of the Record of Archers for FAS builds. I only have a +10 CamoBunny at Acute5, low CRT talent, no cards in Records (since sharing with Maestro), with mediocre Shadow Gear for FAS, and it was still a 6 mil increase difference (but I do lose 79 Crit Rate which might be yucky against certain MVPs solo):

https://tinypic.host/image/txukk

(*Did the forum stop supporting tinypic images?)

 

However, if I could afford it I'd like to compare a +30 Shooting Shadow Set+CamoBunny+ODR with PDM (or maybe Silver Claw if only 60% DEF bypass is sufficient with Ranger Shadow Shield) since addition of 10% Ranged, 15% Crit DMG, 15% FAS DMG with 108% DEF Bypass (or +10% ATK and 55% more Crit DMG w/ Silver Claw+Ominous Heater) has merit too with ODR although not sure if it will beat it in the end. But considering Shooting Set is maybe 4-6b, the Records sound the way to go since they can double for Maestro/Troub equips too and are currently cheaper than the alternative... and all this is sounding too rich for my blood for just "testing" at this point, haha.

Edited by Jefuu, 20 December 2023 - 07:42 AM.

[Zayaan]

and all this is sounding too rich for my blood for just "testing" at this point, haha.

 

https://newcalc.irowiki.org

do it for free

[Nagaame]

Small update. Biolab Virgo Diadem/Celestial Jewel Crown is a huge addition that changes a lot, but it's a 1/12 drop from a 0.19% Kachua drop, so it's incredibly inaccessible (ty WP for killing my dreams). Illusion Hunter Bow and the new Sparkling Stick are also pretty solid upgrades for FAS. I'm gonna do an overhaul soon and prune out more of the less relevant items (they'll be in the Google Doc guide in a separate section but I'm hitting post length limits for the forum version).

[Jefuu]

Small update. Biolab Virgo Diadem/Celestial Jewel Crown is a huge addition that changes a lot, but it's a 1/12 drop from a 0.19% Kachua drop, so it's incredibly inaccessible (ty WP for killing my dreams). Illusion Hunter Bow and the new Sparkling Stick are also pretty solid upgrades for FAS. I'm gonna do an overhaul soon and prune out more of the less relevant items (they'll be in the Google Doc guide in a separate section but I'm hitting post length limits for the forum version).

 

As always, thanks for keeping this updated!

 

I don't run AS anymore but I, too, would be curious to how Virgo+Falken compares to current Type K+Virtual. While one could calc the damage increase (and I'm sure it's plenty higher), if my math is correct the Virgo combo still has 0.4s cooldown (which is double Type K's), which seems tiny but is technically double haha. Dunno how much different my hands could play it to see if it's worth the cost but if only Virgo was a little more obtainable...

 

For FAS, Virgo has some nice bonuses with Sharp Star but I feel like if running Yoichi, you already have so much FAS mod that the other buffs from ARB still beats it out? At the very least, it's extremely more obtainable than the new combo anyway.

[Nagaame]

As always, thanks for keeping this updated!

 

I don't run AS anymore but I, too, would be curious to how Virgo+Falken compares to current Type K+Virtual. While one could calc the damage increase (and I'm sure it's plenty higher), if my math is correct the Virgo combo still has 0.4s cooldown (which is double Type K's), which seems tiny but is technically double haha. Dunno how much different my hands could play it to see if it's worth the cost but if only Virgo was a little more obtainable...

 

For FAS, Virgo has some nice bonuses with Sharp Star but I feel like if running Yoichi, you already have so much FAS mod that the other buffs from ARB still beats it out? At the very least, it's extremely more obtainable than the new combo anyway.

 

Virgo + Falken is 1.8s + 0.7s = 2.5s, same as Ignis Type K + Virtual Bow.

 

For FAS,  a +12 Sharp Star with Cecil has a 32% crit multiplier, up to 13% ranged multiplier, and a 38% FAS multiplier. Awakened Royal is 20% FAS, 10% crit multiplier, 27% ranged multiplier, and a moderate amount more atk. The two end up actually being pretty close, with Royal having a modest edge. A +12 Virgo will pretty much make up the ATK and ranged multiplier discrepancies, and give a whopping 120% FAS multiplier, 20% crit multiplier, and 10% size multiplier, on top of the ~20% crit/fas multipliers sharp star has over royal. Even with Yoichi, this still ends up outclassing Wolf Officer assuming you have ACD elsewhere, and it also ends up edging out old camo bunny + records of archer. The optimizations get really rough because it's a comparison between upper headgear, weapon, accessories, and possibly lower headgear.

 

Constant: Little Garden, +10 Assault [Angry Nine Tails], +9 Yoichi [Galensis], +9 Sniping Shoes, Booster Shadow, Ranger Mid
vs: Amdarais (Challenge Lv10)
Max Cardinal Buffs, Magic Strings

+12 Sharp Star [2x PWM, EA3, Cecil] + +12 Virgo + Dreaming Red Sheep + Jupiter + Silver Claw = 47m per FAS, 311m DPS
+12 Sharp Star [2x PWM, EA3, Cecil] + +12 Wolf Officer + Tyrant + Jupiter + Silver Claw = 33m per FAS, 220m DPS
+12 Awakened Royal Bow [2x PWM] + +12 Wolf Officer + Tyrant + Jupiter + Silver Claw = 34m per FAS, 227m DPS
+12 Awakened Royal Bow [2x PWM] + +12 Old Camo Bunny Hood [Acute 5] + Tyrant + Record of Archer 1+2 = 38m per FAS, 250m DPS

Obviously numbers vary a lot, especially considering different buff availability. I generally only get like 3.5 FAS per second anyway, so some of the ACD doesn't matter that much (AKA the Magic Strings I included). Comparisons 2 and 3 are just to show how similar the two bows are.

Edited by Nagaame, 17 January 2024 - 06:05 PM.

[Jefuu]

Oh, what? Not sure where I missed that 0.2 for AS. So we finally have a new and improved option, hooray!

 

For FAS,  a +12 Sharp Star with Cecil has a 32% crit multiplier, up to 13% ranged multiplier, and a 38% FAS multiplier. Awakened Royal is 20% FAS, 10% crit multiplier, 27% ranged multiplier, and a moderate amount more atk. The two end up actually being pretty close, with Royal having a modest edge. A +12 Virgo will pretty much make up the ATK and ranged multiplier discrepancies, and give a whopping 120% FAS multiplier, 20% crit multiplier, and 10% size multiplier, on top of the ~20% crit/fas multipliers sharp star has over royal. Even with Yoichi, this still ends up outclassing Wolf Officer assuming you have ACD elsewhere, and it also ends up edging out old camo bunny + records of archer. The optimizations get really rough because it's a comparison between upper headgear, weapon, accessories, and possibly lower headgear.

 

Constant: Little Garden, +10 Assault [Angry Nine Tails], +9 Yoichi [Galensis], +9 Sniping Shoes, Booster Shadow, Ranger Mid
vs: Amdarais (Challenge Lv10)
Max Cardinal Buffs, Magic Strings

+12 Sharp Star [2x PWM, EA3, Cecil] + +12 Virgo + Dreaming Red Sheep + Jupiter + Silver Claw = 47m per FAS, 311m DPS
+12 Sharp Star [2x PWM, EA3, Cecil] + +12 Wolf Officer + Tyrant + Jupiter + Silver Claw = 33m per FAS, 220m DPS
+12 Awakened Royal Bow [2x PWM] + +12 Wolf Officer + Tyrant + Jupiter + Silver Claw = 34m per FAS, 227m DPS
+12 Awakened Royal Bow [2x PWM] + +12 Wolf Officer + Tyrant + Record of Archer 1+2 = 38m per FAS, 250m DPS

 

Was there a reason you removed OCBH+ARB from the testing? Wouldn't it stand a more equal chance with Virgo since at +12 with both Records it gives similar (if not better) buffs:

• +27% Long Range
• +95% Crit Damage & +15 Crit Rate (if stopping at Acute 5 and not accounting for theoretical perfect stat enchants)
• +18% Size
• +124% FAS
• -17% ACD
  • +10% ASPD
  • -100% FAS VCT
  • NL Cooldown -90 sec

 

Biggest miss is the 120 ATK that +12 Virgo offers (and the fact that you can wear PDM for full DEF bypass, the Records' biggest weakness imo) unless there's something I missed?

Edited by Jefuu, 17 January 2024 - 05:47 PM.

[Nagaame]

sorry i made a typo in that last option. it's supposed to be old camo bunny instead of wolf officer (which is the only reason why the records in that option make any sense). edited with correct name

[Jefuu]

Wow, I didn't think the Virgo combo would be THAT much better but there are the numbers! Damn, as a FAS main it feels like I must now try to move over to this just because it's a new, shiny, 9m increase... but I don't even want to check the market for what Virgo is selling for (if there's even one on the market yet lol).