93 replies to this topic

[Valsu]

Hello everyone, I want to talk to the community today about a problem that's been plaguing this game since the first time I ever played this game. Lack of interest in PvP. I hope that hearing about this from a PvE gamer's perspective will help you understand how you can get people interested in your barbarous bloodbaths again. First lets touch on some of the issues people have with PvP. I've talked to a lot of players and they all have the same complaint: Locking. Locking, simply put, is cheap and is an abuse of game mechanics.

Since this abuse is so often employed by the ignorance of the PvP savy who fail to see the big picture, PvP interest is now slim to none. Who wants to be stuck helpless in a battle? That's not fun, it's stupid and a waste of time. So let's explore other options. While locking is what keeps a lot of people away, it should not be completely done away with. I believe a "Combo Timer" should pop up when a lock begins giving a player a few seconds to really let their opponent have it. After the time is up, you go back to your corners.

Now to address the priest issue. "Valsu, if you break up a priest with another fighter they'll just heal." Healing should be prohibited as well in PvP. I believe a priest should not be completely robbed of their nature as a healer though. So I propose a passive regeneration of HP in battle this will of course heal surrounding party members as well. 3% HP every 8 seconds or something to that effect. This gives priests their birth rite as healers and keeps everyone else happy.

Now for those nasty AAS spammers. "Relaunch" should be banned from PvP. A few seconds could be all someone has when caught in AAS. So I believe an AAS counter should be installed on a countdown from 15-20 shots. Once shots are over, 0.5 seconds invincibility for the AAS victim. This again will promote a fair fight and give each fighter an equal chance at victory. If things were set up this way I can assure you it would draw a larger crowd to PvP arenas.

Other game elements should be introduced to balance the fight vs the stacked player. I have a few inventions in mind. "Buff Spheres" - Break the sphere for a buff, not an overly crazy buff but just buffs to make PvP more fun. More Aim, More INT, More STR, More ATK... you get the idea. "Escape Spheres" - These helpful critters will temporarily teleport you to a place where you can rebuff and refresh your cooldowns and then pop you back in the arena in a random location since it'll be timed. "Element Spheres" these guys will power up your damage and add effects to all your attacks. Ice Power, Fire Power, Poison Power, Earth Power, Et cetera.

I'm sure there are a lot of areas I missed but these few examples I am hoping you'll have the vision to work with me and other PvE players to try and make the server a little more interested in PvP. Constructive criticism is appreciated, please don't flame me as I am just trying to make the game more enjoyable for the PvP community by actually giving you the opponents you so desperately crave.

The picture below kinda spells out how most of the server sees PvP. Based on the many players I've spoken to.

[Turtlle]

[StormHaven]

AAS is already useless in PvP , for the most part,because dmg nerf(not that it ever was really helpful for dmg at higher lvls.), only useful for breaking AR.

[Valsu]

AAS is already useless in PvP , for the most part,because dmg nerf(not that it ever was really helpful for dmg at higher lvls.), only useful for breaking AR.

Good to know, thanks for helping me learn.

[Rimmy]

Other game elements should be introduced to balance the fight vs the stacked player.

The problem with this is that it eliminates the point of stacking. You work hard on enchanting and soulcrafting your gear so you can be stronger than your opponents, but if you try to make it so everyone can compete equally stat-wise in this way, no one will bother spending money to stack their characters and this game will die (not just PvP, but the whole thing).

I think I understand where you're coming from here, but the game simply cannot survive unless people spend lots of money, and let's face it, the majority of money spent on this game is to refine gear for PvP (b/c you really don't need to refine much at all to do well in PvE in this game -- all it does is increase your killing speed). I guess maybe if you made the "buff" items into IM items, that might be an alternative, but I doubt many non-stacked players are going to blow money on those if they aren't willing to spend money to upgrade their gear in the first place.

TBH, I think the problem of locking can be solved by simply eliminating or nerfing a few key skills. But if you eliminate locks, that gives healers a huuuuuge advantage, so you'd basically have to get rid of healing altogether, too (or nerf it to the point where it really doesn't help much).

Locking is part of the built-in mechanics of PvP (example: Time Reverse, AAS, etc.). Using these tactics may be "cheap" but it isn't "cheating." Regardless, though, if PvE players are really citing locking as the reason why they don't PvP, then why don't they just play together and agree not to lock or heal?

What I'm getting at is that I really don't think locks are the only problem at work. PvE players tend to stick together so they could easily just play with others like themselves (guildies) who won't lock and exclude people who won't agree not to lock.

I think another real issue is that PvE players try PvP a few times, get destroyed by their opponents, and give up. But typically, the reason they lose isn't just locks or gear. Those certainly play a role, but it's also the simple fact that they haven't spent as much time PvPing as regular PvPers do and really can't hope to compete at the same level until they've earned it through experience.

Where's the proof of that? Look at how little interest there's been in the PvP League so far. There are how many players in this server... 1,000+, at least? Yet only about 20-25 have registered. The rules make locks and most other "cheap" tactics nearly impossible for most classes (IMO, I suppose), and more or less eliminate gear from the equation completely.

The simple fact of the matter is, PvP DOES, in fact, require some amount of skill for success (especially in naked PvP) -- and pretty much every player starts from a point where they have almost zero skill in PvP (the pros included). It takes time to improve, and TBH, I think a lot of players just refuse to give it a fair chance.

There's nothing wrong with that, really, and I can understand why many players give up on PvP. No one likes to lose, especially not repeatedly. But the truth is, you're never going to be able to PvP in this game unless you practice, A LOT. And it's going to be a "painful" process, because you're going to lose A LOT and get taunted, etc., b/c that's the nature of competition. Unfortunately, that's the only way to really improve, but IMO, it's WORTH IT, if you stick with it and learn not to let others' negative attitudes rub off on you or get to you, b/c you'll learn to enjoy PvP whether you WIN or LOSE.

That point only comes after a lot of practice, as previously mentioned -- after you've learned each class's strengths/weaknesses/strategies and how to counter or exploit them. Locks are cheap, yes... Stacked gear can be cheap, too... And certainly, those contribute to the lack of interest in PvP. But I don't think the problem begins or ends there.

I think a big part of the problem is the fact that leveling is so easy now. New players focus on leveling until they hit the 50s, 60s, 70s, never bothering much with PvP along the way, so then when they try to enter the arena at those high levels and try to compete with players who have been PvPing for nearly the game's entire lifespan (THQ + Warp Portal), they're nowhere near prepared. It's not a fair fight, and neither party is really at fault.

Again, let me reiterate, there's nothing *wrong* with not liking PvP or not being skilled in PvP. But to try to make PvP "easy" or "fair for everyone" (regardless of skill level) isn't the solution. PvP is competitive and a challenge, and that's the way it should stay. PvP could perhaps be made more ACCESSIBLE, but that's another issue entirely.

[Valsu]

The problem with this is that it eliminates the point of stacking. You work hard on enchanting and soulcrafting your gear so you can be stronger than your opponents, but if you try to make it so everyone can compete equally stat-wise in this way, no one will bother spending money to stack their characters and this game will die (not just PvP, but the whole thing).

I think I understand where you're coming from here, but the game simply cannot survive unless people spend lots of money, and let's face it, the majority of money spent on this game is to refine gear for PvP (b/c you really don't need to refine much at all to do well in PvE in this game -- all it does is increase your killing speed). I guess maybe if you made the "buff" items into IM items, that might be an alternative, but I doubt many non-stacked players are going to blow money on those if they aren't willing to spend money to upgrade their gear in the first place.

TBH, I think the problem of locking can be solved by simply eliminating or nerfing a few key skills. But if you eliminate locks, that gives healers a huuuuuge advantage, so you'd basically have to get rid of healing altogether, too (or nerf it to the point where it really doesn't help much).

Locking is part of the built-in mechanics of PvP (example: Time Reverse, AAS, etc.). Using these tactics may be "cheap" but it isn't "cheating." Regardless, though, if PvE players are really citing locking as the reason why they don't PvP, then why don't they just play together and agree not to lock or heal?

What I'm getting at is that I really don't think locks are the only problem at work. PvE players tend to stick together so they could easily just play with others like themselves (guildies) who won't lock and exclude people who won't agree not to lock.

I think another real issue is that PvE players try PvP a few times, get destroyed by their opponents, and give up. But typically, the reason they lose isn't just locks or gear. Those certainly play a role, but it's also the simple fact that they haven't spent as much time PvPing as regular PvPers do and really can't hope to compete at the same level until they've earned it through experience.

Where's the proof of that? Look at how little interest there's been in the PvP League so far. There are how many players in this server... 1,000+, at least? Yet only about 20-25 have registered. The rules make locks and most other "cheap" tactics nearly impossible for most classes (IMO, I suppose), and more or less eliminate gear from the equation completely.

The simple fact of the matter is, PvP DOES, in fact, require some amount of skill for success (especially in naked PvP) -- and pretty much every player starts from a point where they have almost zero skill in PvP (the pros included). It takes time to improve, and TBH, I think a lot of players just refuse to give it a fair chance.

There's nothing wrong with that, really, and I can understand why many players give up on PvP. No one likes to lose, especially not repeatedly. But the truth is, you're never going to be able to PvP in this game unless you practice, A LOT. And it's going to be a "painful" process, because you're going to lose A LOT and get taunted, etc., b/c that's the nature of competition. Unfortunately, that's the only way to really improve, but IMO, it's WORTH IT, if you stick with it and learn not to let others' negative attitudes rub off on you or get to you, b/c you'll learn to enjoy PvP whether you WIN or LOSE.

That point only comes after a lot of practice, as previously mentioned -- after you've learned each class's strengths/weaknesses/strategies and how to counter or exploit them. Locks are cheap, yes... Stacked gear can be cheap, too... And certainly, those contribute to the lack of interest in PvP. But I don't think the problem begins or ends there.

I think a big part of the problem is the fact that leveling is so easy now. New players focus on leveling until they hit the 50s, 60s, 70s, never bothering much with PvP along the way, so then when they try to enter the arena at those high levels and try to compete with players who have been PvPing for nearly the game's entire lifespan (THQ + Warp Portal), they're nowhere near prepared. It's not a fair fight, and neither party is really at fault.

Again, let me reiterate, there's nothing *wrong* with not liking PvP or not being skilled in PvP. But to try to make PvP "easy" or "fair for everyone" (regardless of skill level) isn't the solution. PvP is competitive and a challenge, and that's the way it should stay. PvP could perhaps be made more ACCESSIBLE, but that's another issue entirely.

Why not introduce the changes I mentioned into Practice Mode? An altered Practice Mode so people of the same skill level can equally learn? Oh nono even better. I think I have a solution! PvP experience gauge! Give us another Lv. for PvP experience. It's happened on other games. For Example Valsu: PvE Level 70. PvP Level 4.

[Thuy]

Great post Rim!

Why not introduce the changes I mentioned into Practice Mode? An altered Practice Mode so people of the same skill level can equally learn? Oh nono even better. I think I have a solution! PvP experience gauge! Give us another Lv. for PvP experience. It's happened on other games. For Example Valsu: PvE Level 70. PvP Level 4.

I don't play many MMOs but how would the PvP level help? Wouldn't that just widen the gap between experienced players and new players, since you have to actually PvP to increase your "PvP level." They're already discouraged to PvP in the first place, so how would they level at all?
What's the purpose of the PvP level anyways? I've never had experience with it before.

From my point of view is that the suggestions you suggested are based on what you've read. I feel that you need more PvP experience to fully understand PvP so you can give a stronger argument.

Edited by Thuy, 14 April 2011 - 12:04 PM.

[Rimmy]

Why not introduce the changes I mentioned into Practice Mode? An altered Practice Mode so people of the same skill level can equally learn? Oh nono even better. I think I have a solution! PvP experience gauge! Give us another Lv. for PvP experience. It's happened on other games. For Example Valsu: PvE Level 70. PvP Level 4.

You might be on to something there. If PvP used a "matching" system to match up players of similar skill level (kinda like certain console games), it might help.

I could foresee a few problems, though, not the least of which is that you'd have some skilled players who just want to pick on new players making new characters and hiding the fact that they're experienced -- or simply making new characters b/c they want to, and inadvertently doing the same thing.

Also, how do you determine "PvP experience?" It's not a tangible "numbers" thing like regular EXP. You could have one player play 10 matches and pick up on how to play his/her class successfully, while for a different player it might take 100 to achieve the same level of relative skill.

[Valsu]

You might be on to something there. If PvP used a "matching" system to match up players of similar skill level (kinda like certain console games), it might help.

I could foresee a few problems, though, not the least of which is that you'd have some skilled players who just want to pick on new players making new characters and hiding the fact that they're experienced -- or simply making new characters b/c they want to, and inadvertently doing the same thing.

Also, how do you determine "PvP experience?" It's not a tangible "numbers" thing like regular EXP. You could have one player play 10 matches and pick up on how to play his/her class successfully, while for a different player it might take 100 to achieve the same level of relative skill.

Well, we have a grading system in missions maps which grades us on simple dynamics. Perhaps a more complex one could be employed for PvP? Grades on Combos, Time intervals between combos, Number of hits in a match, number of deaths in a match, number of kills in a match. Et cetera.

[Midoof]

When it comes to why pvp isn't fun, it has less to do with "locking" and more to do with balance. Class balance is pitiful in this game. It was in the past, greatly distorted now, and Barunson looks to outdo itself in the future. In addition, your pic adequately expresses the poor equipment balance in many pvp matches. The simple solution is to level the playing field with house rules. Agreeing to not lock/heal is a pretty basic starting point when it comes to looking for a fun match. As for equipment, it's a bit tougher and this is why you pvp with people you're familiar with at first. I'm far from a stacked player, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying pvp. Everything else I wanted to say was already covered in Rim's initial post.

Pvp is not quite as dead as you make it out to be. Widen the circle of people you talk to. It's really fallacious to simply assume that the many players you talk to are an accurate representation of the issues that keep pvp from being popular.

Edited by Midoof, 14 April 2011 - 12:09 PM.

[Rimmy]

Well, we have a grading system in missions maps which grades us on simple dynamics. Perhaps a more complex one could be employed for PvP? Grades on Combos, Time intervals between combos, Number of hits in a match, number of deaths in a match, number of kills in a match. Et cetera.

An interesting idea, but it really wouldn't work in Dragon Saga PvP unless you catered the grading system to a character's specific class. Some classes (priests, for instance) are not "kill-heavy" classes b/c their main function is to play support, and some classes (pallies, for instance) can pull off extended combos much, much easier than others.

It would be quite an undertaking to develop a separate set of grading criteria for each class.

Edited by Rimmy, 14 April 2011 - 12:42 PM.

[MicoJive]

while i agree with most of what you say the thing is regarding people that are experienced with pvp already follow these rules. The majority of people that play this game only do it for the pve, or only do it a few hours a week at most. They are casual players and dont really care if what they do is 'fair' in pvp they just do what they think is fun. While i think having buffs that equalize some gear equips ( i would love to actually be able to hit evade stackers for example) it really isn't fair to the high end player that spent time and money getting there gear to what they think is perfect.

[Valsu]

When it comes to why pvp isn't fun, it has less to do with "locking" and more to do with balance. Class balance is pitiful in this game. It was in the past, greatly distorted now, and Barunson looks to outdo itself in the future. In addition, your pic adequately expresses the poor equipment balance in many pvp matches. The simple solution is to level the playing field with house rules. Agreeing to not lock/heal is a pretty basic starting point when it comes to looking for a fun match. As for equipment, it's a bit tougher and this is why you pvp with people you're familiar with at first. I'm far from a stacked player, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying pvp. Everything else I wanted to say was already covered in Rim's initial post.

Pvp is not quite as dead as you make it out to be. Widen the circle of people you talk to. It's really fallacious to simply assume that the many players you talk to are an accurate representation of the issues that keep pvp from being popular.

Well, I've gotten a lot a positive whispers in-game about the combo timer idea and the sphere idea. Perhaps it's you guys who are the smaller circle? Rim kind of confirmed that. I'm not trying to start anything, I'm trying to save you from yourselves. If you don't start widening your perspective of things. The PvP community will never prosper. I believe in balance and right now there is way too much Yin and very little Yang.

Great post Rim!


I don't play many MMOs but how would the PvP level help? Wouldn't that just widen the gap between experienced players and new players, since you have to actually PvP to increase your "PvP level." They're already discouraged to PvP in the first place, so how would they level at all?
What's the purpose of the PvP level anyways? I've never had experience with it before.

From my point of view is that the suggestions you suggested are based on what you've read. I feel that you need more PvP experience to fully understand PvP so you can give a stronger argument.

PvP Experience is a grading system I've seen on other games that uses a match-up randomizing system to create balanced teams and fair 1 on 1 match-ups. Most of them have been successful with minor abuse only. If this system were in place it would shield would-be new PvP opponents from the experienced players to a point. Allowing the PvP community to gradually grow. The road would be rocky but it would happen.

An interesting idea, but it really wouldn't work in Dragon Saga PvP unless you catered the grading system to a character's specific class. Some classes (priests, for instance) are not "kill-heavy" classes b/c their main function is to play support, and some classes (pallies, for instance) can pull of extended combos much, much easier than others.

It would be quite an undertaking to develop a separate set of grading criteria for each class.

But Rimmy it would be SO worth it! Imagine the excitement of it!

Edited by Valsu, 14 April 2011 - 12:40 PM.

[StormHaven]

The last thing i want is a combo timer. It would get abused so much or cause someone to lose.
how would you ever count a combo?
if i use Freeze trap+net bind+Ice Shower is it counted as a 3 hit combo or a 2X combo? and if they go back to corners after reaching the combo limit i would be wasting MP and Dmg that could've won me the match.
or for another matter if you're fighting a pally(since they have barricade and coackroach life) if they got sent back they could pop those skills and turn the whole game around.
Overall the idea for a combo timer seems nice but it's next to impossible to give the right amount of time for it.

[Valsu]

The last thing i want is a combo timer. It would get abused so much or cause someone to lose.
how would you ever count a combo?
if i use Freeze trap+net bind+Ice Shower is it counted as a 3 hit combo or a 2X combo? and if they go back to corners after reaching the combo limit i would be wasting MP and Dmg that could've won me the match.
or for another matter if you're fighting a pally(since they have barricade and coackroach life) if they got sent back they could pop those skills and turn the whole game around.
Overall the idea for a combo timer seems nice but it's next to impossible to give the right amount of time for it.

Well, work with the rest of us StormHaven to make a PvP system that is beneficial for growing the PvP population, I'm not an enemy of PvP or anything. I actually want to see this game full of life. PvP is the only area lacking this.

Edited by Valsu, 14 April 2011 - 12:34 PM.

[Midoof]

Ad Populum.

[Rimmy]

Well, I've gotten a lot a positive whispers in-game about the combo timer idea and the sphere idea. Perhaps it's you guys who are the smaller circle? Rim kind of confirmed that.

Yes, but I suspect that many of these "positive whispers" are from people who have no real understanding of how these systems would affect PvP (the ones who never participate in it). Of course it's going to sound appealing if you tell PvE-centric players you're going to give them all kinds of free buffs and combo timers to make PvP easier for them, but you have to consider that in order to be truly fair you're also going to have to offer those advantages to stacked players, too (or what would be the point of being stacked, as I mentioned before).

You can't claim PvP is unfair for a bunch of players and change the rules to make it fair only for them without it being rather unfair, in that players who have spent a lot of time + money getting to the top suddenly see most of the value of their considerable investments go down the toilet.

[Valsu]

Ad Populum.

This can be responded to in 2 different methods.

The Business Perspective: Ad Populum is a perfect reference for this argument. Let's face it, businesses do very much so "appeal to the masses" or "cater to the majority". Employing some of the ideas that both Rimmy and I have suggested could work very well in Barunson's favour. While of course keeping the Buff Sphere's out of the always-competitive Emporia Wars to promote sales of upgrades. Also add items to the most casual PvP'ers repertoire. Perhaps as Rimmy suggested, make the spheres Cash Items, however this would remove the random insertion into the match for which they were intended. Interest would indeed increase but not necessarily for the betterment of everyone concerned.

The Community Perspective: The PvP elite, who like things as they are and do not want change. Perhaps this is where the eye of Barunson should be focused. Maybe only subtle change is necessary as Rimmy suggests? This would tend to make the current PvP community quite happy. However, it could have possible drawbacks. I am not a prophet so I can't foresee the result. I am open-minded, I just want to be sure to help the PvP community get a little more enjoyment out of what they want to do with this game is all. Leave things as they are if you must but just understand that if things don't improve in the conduct of how we PvP each other. Things will only get worse.

Yes, but I suspect that many of these "positive whispers" are from people who have no real understanding of how these systems would affect PvP (the ones who never participate in it). Of course it's going to sound appealing if you tell PvE-centric players you're going to give them all kinds of free buffs and combo timers to make PvP easier for them, but you have to consider that in order to be truly fair you're also going to have to offer those advantages to stacked players, too (or what would be the point of being stacked, as I mentioned before).

You can't claim PvP is unfair for a bunch of players and change the rules to make it fair only for them without it being rather unfair, in that players who have spent a lot of time + money getting to the top suddenly see most of the value of their considerable investments go down the toilet.

I understand your love for PvP and how things are, I was once a PvP'er myself in previous games. I'm simply saying work with the whole, collectively to come to an acceptable compromise. So we both realize our goal of revitalizing PvP. I know you want that too Rimmy.

Edited by Valsu, 14 April 2011 - 01:07 PM.

[GrapefruitGod]

As with any system in this game; someone is going to abuse it. I don't really care or anything, just letting you know.

[to0n]

The Community Perspective: The PvP elite, who like things as they are and do not want change. Perhaps this is where the eye of Barunson should be focused. Maybe only subtle change is necessary as Rimmy suggests? This would tend to make the current PvP community quite happy. However, it could have possible drawbacks. I am not a prophet so I can't foresee the result. I am open-minded, I just want to be sure to help the PvP community get a little more enjoyment out of what they want to do with this game is all. Leave things as they are if you must but just understand that if things don't improve in the conduct of how we PvP each other. Things will only get worse.

You honestly think we like the current system? Hell no, its horrible. Your suggested changes will make it worse. Adding more and more restrictions is not the way to go. If there is to be balanced PvP, they need to rework the skills and numbers, not limit everything.

[Valsu]

You honestly think we like the current system? Hell no, its horrible. Your suggested changes will make it worse. Adding more and more restrictions is not the way to go. If there is to be balanced PvP, they need to rework the skills and numbers, not limit everything.

An excellent point. Can you elaborate for us Toon? What would you like to see reworked?
EDIT: This also links well with Rimmy's point earlier about a subtle change in skills to prevent locking.

Edited by Valsu, 14 April 2011 - 01:21 PM.

[dar2]

Since this abuse is so often employed by the ignorance of the PvP savy who fail to see the big picture, PvP interest is now slim to none. Who wants to be stuck helpless in a battle? That's not fun, it's stupid and a waste of time. So let's explore other options. While locking is what keeps a lot of people away, it should not be completely done away with. I believe a "Combo Timer" should pop up when a lock begins giving a player a few seconds to really let their opponent have it. After the time is up, you go back to your corners.

IMO PVP is a game of reaction and countering. If we implement your idea, PVP sounds more like rock paper scissor, a game with lots of short duration round. There's no "FLOW" to it if you know what I mean.

Your post actually have a lots of interesting idea that can be explore further. For example, the "Combo Timer". How about if we make it so if A deals continuous damage to B for 5 seconds (arbitrary number) and B deals 0 damage* to A during that duration (read: being locked), then B get immunity for 0.5 seconds (just another arbitrary number). Think of it like when you PVE and got smashed by environmental damage from rock or sword for example. This will give B a chance to escape or counter A, but it will keep the "FLOW" going. It will also address your concern about healing.

I'm sure people will think of an issue with my suggestion but I like where this post is going. Continuous improvement to the idea of fixing/improving PVP.

Just my 2 cents

EDIT: *revenge damage or damage from meteor earring should be excluded

Edited by dar2, 14 April 2011 - 01:27 PM.

[Valsu]

IMO PVP is a game of reaction and countering. If we implement your idea, PVP sounds more like rock paper scissor, a game with lots of short duration round. There's no "FLOW" to it if you know what I mean.

Your post actually have a lots of interesting idea that can be explore further. For example, the "Combo Timer". How about if we make it so if A deals continuous damage to B for 5 seconds (arbitrary number) and B deals 0 damage* to A during that duration (read: being locked), then B get immunity for 0.5 seconds (just another arbitrary number). Think of it like when you PVE and got smashed by environmental damage from rock or sword for example. This will give B a chance to escape or counter A, but it will keep the "FLOW" going. It will also address your concern about healing.

I'm sure people will think of an issue with my suggestion but I like where this post is going. Continuous improvement to the idea of fixing/improving PVP.

Just my 2 cents

EDIT: *revenge damage or damage from meteor earring should be excluded

Now this is what I'm talking about, collective and constructive think-tanking to show the GM's what we want as a whole. Come on guys, let's pave the road to a brighter future for PvP

[to0n]

An excellent point. Can you elaborate for us Toon? What would you like to see reworked?
EDIT: This also links well with Rimmy's point earlier about a subtle change in skills to prevent locking.

I can express my thoughts all I want, but it'll never affect what Barunson decides to do.
Warpportal will try to do certain things and Barunson will deny it.

First off, equipment enchantment scales exponentially. If you've ever experienced high level PvP, it's the most boring POS ever. No one dies because there's bound to be at least one mage with a heal. The high survivability puts this game at a slower pace. The reason we do Naked PvP is because it prevents you from being risky, you have to work harder as a team. Old PvP used to actually be like this, without the need to remove gears. The gap between cash/farmed players is so vastly far from casual players there is no chance for them to compete.

In terms of PvP mechanics, there are SO MANY BUGS. Trap walking, squiggle dashing, AAS escaping (Not using the actual term to prevent new people from learning it), lag walking etc. Now sometimes, glitches can improve the gameplay, but in this case, it does not.
The combination of Dash and Squiggle jumps makes it almost impossible to chase a person down.
There is a way to escape AAS and it can also occur accidentally by having an extremely bad computer.
Lag walking is obvious.
Animation canceling through the usage of skills. Example, RA vs Wolf Rush casted at the same time. RA hits, but the animation of casting Wolf Rush negates the launch. Wolf Rush will then launch the RA user. This can happen with other scenarios as well and may have different outcomes such as a stalemate. Nonetheless, annoying.
Skills cast on the walls appear in a different location.

Now for skills, the numbers really need to be adjusted. Some skills do way too much damage, heal way too much, have too long of a cooldown, etc. I'd rather not name them all because almost all skills are balanced horribly. Then we have skills that have been nerfed to the ground and become useless (Aerial Kick), while the useful skills keep getting stronger (Crosscut). Again, I can't rant all day but it won't change anything.

[Miname]

Healers need their heals, plain and simple. I'm not saying that healing isn't OP, but take these factors into consideration:
-We have much lower defense than other classes and generally get smashed to tiny bits in pvp.
-We lack decent attacks, save for x-spam and log, which have been nerfed tremendously.
-Two of our capture spells are based solely on chance, and more than likely fail (I personally do not see 85% chance with 5/5 Witch, with sufficient aim).

When trying to be 'fair' in 1v1 pvp, I generally use one or two slow heals during the course of the match. I rarely wide heal or instant heal unless my opponent is being a spamming locking jerk.