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#1 Zeppelin

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 04:58 PM

The following table shows the relationship of what monster class has access to items in terms of categories of drop rarity.
Attached File  Monster-Class-Drop-Categories.png   19.66KB   1573 downloads

The following table shows the relationship of what kind of items can be expected from within each drop category of rarity.
Attached File  Drop-Categories.png   48.6KB   1383 downloads

This is a more detailed view displaying what chemical can be expected, based on level range and rarity category along with what monster class has access to it.
Attached File  Chemical-Table.png   22.16KB   1295 downloads

This is a more detailed view displaying what catalysts can be expected, based on level range and rarity category along with what monster class has access to it.
Attached File  Catalysts-Table.png   53.93KB   1200 downloads
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#2 EmoCutt

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 05:15 PM

These tables dont really help
all talk and no game.

Edited by EmoCutt, 15 April 2011 - 05:15 PM.

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#3 None

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 05:25 PM

So what is there to farm for lvl 220 characters? Most of the monster in orlo are considered common. Boss give crap drops now since it take maybe 10 kills to get a single lisent drop because they added stupid 200 blue equipment.
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#4 SilverBlood

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 05:51 PM

Basically, the new defenition of farming is having 5 dealers/bourgs with high refined gear in 5 diff lvl ranges all on exp-nullifier steroids killing kings all day.

- 16 out of 20 catalysts are unavailable for 200+ farmers.
- Regular mobs on orlo only drop pink powders.

Enough joking around, revert it back to pre patch v.328 or make atleast 10/20 catalysts drop on orlo.

Seriously, what more explanation do you want from us.
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#5 Phish

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 06:00 PM

Why do bosses have such a high chance of 'no drop'. If anything they should drop items more often than regular monsters considering how much longer it takes to kill them and their lower rate of spawning.
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#6 LordArthas

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 06:16 PM

Basically, the new defenition of farming is having 5 dealers/bourgs with high refined gear in 5 diff lvl ranges all on exp-nullifier steroids killing kings all day.

- 16 out of 20 catalysts are unavailable for 200+ farmers.
- Regular mobs on orlo only drop pink powders.

Enough joking around, revert it back to pre patch v.328 or make atleast 10/20 catalysts drop on orlo.

Seriously, what more explanation do you want from us.

I've been asking that myself for years. The problem here seems simple. In all their tables thinks work as they intend them to. 220 players can get only 4 catalysts type? Thats fine. Noobs need motivation!
If they would really play the game they would see how things work very bad. But im tired of countless posts asking the same, explaining the same and even giving the developpers solutions.
I bared with Rose for 6 years. I always gave them an excuse... They were learning, game left by triggersoft was in a bad state, they are understaffed and whatenot.
Too much is too much. Its been more than a month that Orlo is dead. For 220 players theres nothing (oh yes theres medals of retrieval - gotta love that post where zeppeling suggest using them)to do. Zeppeling keep asking feedback: i have seen many feedback last weeks (ladypsyber gave tons, gojio gave tons, so many others gave tons). So no, no feedback from me (and yes i tried to give some along the years). Problems are more than identified. Sadly, im starting to believe theres no interest in fixing them.
A very sad player about to close 6 years of gaming. Oh wait, quitting threads arent allowed. I guess this one will end deleted then....

Edited by LordArthas, 15 April 2011 - 06:19 PM.

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#7 Callmedude

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 06:25 PM

Do you think by drawing these table will help you prove that you did something to the drop system?

Heck not..yesterday i hunt for 4~5 hours and im hunting boss..yet what did i get?Yellow armor?not even high tier chemical..and i haven't seen ANY gem to it..

Is this you called increased drop rate? Come one erase the sentences that you had written in patch note there..

Now i stop being nice to Rose..Couple years ago i always tried to say oh..give sometime to rose to fix their mistakes..And now is totally cannot be tolerated

Now get a bucket of water to splash on your face!
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#8 Sathanas

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 07:41 PM

Hate to break it to you those drop tables != whats in the game at the moment..sorry...not buying it (REFUSE!!!) in the least and doesnt that still leave out nearly half of the new catalysts you introduced?...Why dont they just revert it back to the way it was before until they get thier s*** straight, THEN introduce the tiered drop system...You would at least help out the in game economy and give high levels some means of making money and refining thier gear until you got your crap straight....Or do you like the idea of new players with shiny new 200 chars trying to dance with established players who already have refined gear and a nice stockpile of money....

You did NOTHING in that last patch but make the drops worse.....and new im crap..but thats always the case....

Edited by Sathanas, 15 April 2011 - 07:43 PM.

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#9 flamberge

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 08:28 PM

These drop tables are a very good symbol of what is wrong with the game. This is not fun to experience. For starters, why does nothing drop from bosses so often? Why? What possible purpose does that serve? With how awful their spawnrate is, they should never drop *nothing* period. They should always drop *something*. Next, most enemies drop common items almost exclusively. HP and MP Boosters are awful and shouldn't drop. And there are way too many normal enemies in the game. Take Orlo, for example. There are very few enemies that aren't common there. Even some of the harder ones are still common, which of course translates into terrible drops. Another question, why did we go to level range on tiers of drops? Let's take Lisent Nas for example. They only drop from bosses that are level 1-49. Gee, people ingame sure spend so much time leveling off these specific bosses. No wonder there's almost no Nas left on the servers. This is only one example, take that across the board and it still applies. The fact is, most players spend most of their time ingame over level 200. That's just the way the system works. People are over 200 for far longer than they are under 200. And yet, most of the good items are completely unavailable as drops if you are over 200. So, most of the good items are unavailable for most of the players in the game. I understand that you seem to be trying to make the game more inviting for new players. But at the same time, you must take care of your veteran players or they will quit and that does no good for anyone. What was wrong with the drops pre-v.328? I mean, all you had to do was halve the drops from then and you would have had as good a drop system as could be asked for. Please reconsider what you have done. It may make sense to you but it doesn't work for the people who play the game and supply you with revenue.
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#10 None

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 09:32 PM

Maybe its another way for them to force you to buy item mall e.g. medal of retrievals or starting a noob and spending item mall points to make it good for farming low level monsters
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#11 Sathanas

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 10:02 PM

Maybe its another way for them to force you to buy item mall e.g. medal of retrievals or starting a noob and spending item mall points to make it good for farming low level monsters

If thats the case its having the exact opposite effect...Ive spent less on this game with the horrible drops than i have before...no point in buying plutorunes if theres nothing of significant quantity to refine with...if they want im sales, increase cata drops so we have something to blow plutos on...id love to get a crapton of 10's and 15's now that the refine system is somewhat easier, and wouldnt mind shelling out a little cash periodically on venus/plutos, but theres no point now.

And i dont need cash to make a good low level farmer..ive got a unique weapon for just about every class, and old leftover armor refined and ready to go from leveling my mains, its just a simple matter of creating a new char, racing him up to level 70 or so and aoeing in goblin caves or luna...
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#12 littlekami

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 12:56 AM

in the item drop table it says " purple armor " and " purple weapon" ?!?

uhmm..purple weapon i know..should be the epic 200 weapon...but what purple armor u mean...never heared about purple armor droping ingame.
i miss any patch?
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#13 Mullemaus

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 02:31 AM

I strongly commend to go back to the last drop system. I have farmers for nearly every Lvl-Range and all I can say is... the current drop system simply sucks. And im not even talkin bout powders and lisents here. Its just impossible to farm for mats to craft atm... many mats dont even drop anymore and others drop nearly as rare as lisents. Theres absolutely no fun in Rose like this.
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#14 FeedisArti

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 04:08 AM

I really like how this is done. However, I do agree that the rate of dropping is a little too low. The higher the refine, and refine items, the rarer they should be right? You can't get 100mil per hour anymore by farming lisents, well that's just how it is right now. The amount of zulie in the game is dropping because of all the recent stuffs. And the changes are only a bit tough right now, that's because everything still costs a lot and in comparison you can still get a lot less 'zulie' by farming. But once people finaly realise that everything has changed, they will drop their prices as well. It's going to be like;

"changes in the dropping/refine system" -> "less zulie from farming" -> "less zulie in the game" -> "prices go down"
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#15 Gojio

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 04:32 AM

The following table shows the relationship of what monster class has access to items in terms of categories of drop rarity.
Attached File  Monster-Class-Drop-Categories.png   19.66KB   1573 downloads

The following table shows the relationship of what kind of items can be expected from within each drop category of rarity.
Attached File  Drop-Categories.png   48.6KB   1383 downloads

This is a more detailed view displaying what chemical can be expected, based on level range and rarity category along with what monster class has access to it.
Attached File  Chemical-Table.png   22.16KB   1295 downloads

This is a more detailed view displaying what catalysts can be expected, based on level range and rarity category along with what monster class has access to it.
Attached File  Catalysts-Table.png   53.93KB   1200 downloads


In my opinion it should be like this:

1. Honestly, White Powders were fine at the NPC.
2. 1-49: Grey\Black\Green\Blue Powders from Normal mobs, Pink from Leaders, Orange\Red from Sub Kings, Golden\Transparent from Kings.
3. 50-99: Green\Blue\Pink Powders from Normal Mobs, Orange\Red from Leaders, Golden\Transparent from Sub Kings, Purple\FE from Kings.
4. 100-149: Blue\Pink\Orange Powders from Normal mobs, Red\Golden from Leaders, Transparent\Purple from Sub Kings, Lisent FE\CU\PB from Kings.
5. 150-199: Orange\Red\Golden from Normal mobs, Transparent\Purple\FE\CU from Leaders, Lisent AL\HG from Sub Kings, NA\CR\AU from Kings
6. 200-220: Golden\Transparent\FE\CU from Normal mobs, Purple\AL\HG from Leaders, NA\CR from Sub Kings, AU\TI\U from Kings.

With the right rates this could definitely work. They don't have to drop like rain.

Edited by Gojio, 16 April 2011 - 04:34 AM.

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#16 Sathanas

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 06:38 AM

In my opinion it should be like this:

1. Honestly, White Powders were fine at the NPC.
2. 1-49: Grey\Black\Green\Blue Powders from Normal mobs, Pink from Leaders, Orange\Red from Sub Kings, Golden\Transparent from Kings.
3. 50-99: Green\Blue\Pink Powders from Normal Mobs, Orange\Red from Leaders, Golden\Transparent from Sub Kings, Purple\FE from Kings.
4. 100-149: Blue\Pink\Orange Powders from Normal mobs, Red\Golden from Leaders, Transparent\Purple from Sub Kings, Lisent FE\CU\PB from Kings.
5. 150-199: Orange\Red\Golden from Normal mobs, Transparent\Purple\FE\CU from Leaders, Lisent AL\HG from Sub Kings, NA\CR\AU from Kings
6. 200-220: Golden\Transparent\FE\CU from Normal mobs, Purple\AL\HG from Leaders, NA\CR from Sub Kings, AU\TI\U from Kings.

With the right rates this could definitely work. They don't have to drop like rain.


THAT is a tiered drop system...


Also another idea...i noticed in another topic that a lot of other mats no longer drop in game...if Pat and subitem crafting mats were included in the orlo mobs, you wouldnt have to nerf the cata and chem drop rate as horribly has you have. They would be diluted by all the other mats (mana heat steam heat feathers threads etc) That way artisans wouldnt be so royally screwed, AND you could have a drop table similar to Gojio's, with a DECENT drop rate for catas and chems

The reason why the droprate was so crazy before is because orlo mabs had little on thier drop lists...if it wasnt chems or catas it was the occasional dirty, or the mats needed for raptor backshields or arum backshields.

And whatever happend to gemboxes?

Edited by Sathanas, 16 April 2011 - 06:56 AM.

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#17 Kaizy

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 06:59 AM

In my opinion it should be like this:

1. Honestly, White Powders were fine at the NPC.
2. 1-49: Grey\Black\Green\Blue Powders from Normal mobs, Pink from Leaders, Orange\Red from Sub Kings, Golden\Transparent from Kings.
3. 50-99: Green\Blue\Pink Powders from Normal Mobs, Orange\Red from Leaders, Golden\Transparent from Sub Kings, Purple\FE from Kings.
4. 100-149: Blue\Pink\Orange Powders from Normal mobs, Red\Golden from Leaders, Transparent\Purple from Sub Kings, Lisent FE\CU\PB from Kings.
5. 150-199: Orange\Red\Golden from Normal mobs, Transparent\Purple\FE\CU from Leaders, Lisent AL\HG from Sub Kings, NA\CR\AU from Kings
6. 200-220: Golden\Transparent\FE\CU from Normal mobs, Purple\AL\HG from Leaders, NA\CR from Sub Kings, AU\TI\U from Kings.

With the right rates this could definitely work. They don't have to drop like rain.


+1

Suggested something similar awhile ago and it was ignored by the devs. That is how a functional drop system should be. The rates don't have to be sky high but at least tier it properly. Not this crap now.

Sad thing is I was saying that such a high no drop rate from kings was stupid even before the update and it was still ignored. :(

Edited by Kaizy, 16 April 2011 - 07:08 AM.

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#18 CharasX

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 08:14 AM

In my opinion it should be like this:

1. Honestly, White Powders were fine at the NPC.
2. 1-49: Grey\Black\Green\Blue Powders from Normal mobs, Pink from Leaders, Orange\Red from Sub Kings, Golden\Transparent from Kings.
3. 50-99: Green\Blue\Pink Powders from Normal Mobs, Orange\Red from Leaders, Golden\Transparent from Sub Kings, Purple\FE from Kings.
4. 100-149: Blue\Pink\Orange Powders from Normal mobs, Red\Golden from Leaders, Transparent\Purple from Sub Kings, Lisent FE\CU\PB from Kings.
5. 150-199: Orange\Red\Golden from Normal mobs, Transparent\Purple\FE\CU from Leaders, Lisent AL\HG from Sub Kings, NA\CR\AU from Kings
6. 200-220: Golden\Transparent\FE\CU from Normal mobs, Purple\AL\HG from Leaders, NA\CR from Sub Kings, AU\TI\U from Kings.

With the right rates this could definitely work. They don't have to drop like rain.


+1

You can give the dev team the solution that everyone want or continue to fail. Honestly a good number of players have more experience with rose that what 99% of the ppl of ur team can have so maybe you can start to listen to them.

Making feedback thread is a good intention, but you obviously don't exploit it as you should. Are you aware than most of the companies in the world are actually paying to manage to get there quality assurance service to gather their client feedback and use s it as precious information.
Here everything has been said since mounths, everyone tells you the same thing, but the "dev" team seems to not care at all about that and to keep continuing doing it their way, no company can work like that, soon or late costumers gets angry you know.

So here is what i have to tell you... listen to what your players are asking, and test your patch before putting it into the live game, this way you can only make them satisfied.

PS :
- I m still waiting an answer at this question : What illicit products your team took before having the idea that jelly kings should drop listen Na, but not orlo's monsters? please what could you guys have in your minds.
- Yes another thing, you should stop to monitor drops or whatever, and to each time wait 1 week to give your so called feedback to the team (that really musn't correspond to what your players are telling you else things wouldn't be this way)everyone knows drop rates are a fail atm, and that your new drop system is not even close to be good, you : "the team" seems to be the last ones who need to realize it.
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#19 Phish

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 11:03 AM

In my opinion it should be like this:

1. Honestly, White Powders were fine at the NPC.
2. 1-49: Grey\Black\Green\Blue Powders from Normal mobs, Pink from Leaders, Orange\Red from Sub Kings, Golden\Transparent from Kings.
3. 50-99: Green\Blue\Pink Powders from Normal Mobs, Orange\Red from Leaders, Golden\Transparent from Sub Kings, Purple\FE from Kings.
4. 100-149: Blue\Pink\Orange Powders from Normal mobs, Red\Golden from Leaders, Transparent\Purple from Sub Kings, Lisent FE\CU\PB from Kings.
5. 150-199: Orange\Red\Golden from Normal mobs, Transparent\Purple\FE\CU from Leaders, Lisent AL\HG from Sub Kings, NA\CR\AU from Kings
6. 200-220: Golden\Transparent\FE\CU from Normal mobs, Purple\AL\HG from Leaders, NA\CR from Sub Kings, AU\TI\U from Kings.

With the right rates this could definitely work. They don't have to drop like rain.



The current tables they have don't look bad on paper, but in reality it is a mess. I don't see having Na's drop from low level bosses as a bad thing as it encourages trade between high level and lower level players, but people will breeze through the first 50 levels so quickly they won't supply the game with anywhere near enough of said item with the current drop rates. I do support your list and it looks to what an ideal table should look.

+1

You can give the dev team the solution that everyone want or continue to fail. Honestly a good number of players have more experience with rose that what 99% of the ppl of ur team can have so maybe you can start to listen to them.

Making feedback thread is a good intention, but you obviously don't exploit it as you should. Are you aware than most of the companies in the world are actually paying to manage to get there quality assurance service to gather their client feedback and use s it as precious information.
Here everything has been said since mounths, everyone tells you the same thing, but the "dev" team seems to not care at all about that and to keep continuing doing it their way, no company can work like that, soon or late costumers gets angry you know.

So here is what i have to tell you... listen to what your players are asking, and test your patch before putting it into the live game, this way you can only make them satisfied.

PS :
- I m still waiting an answer at this question : What illicit products your team took before having the idea that jelly kings should drop listen Na, but not orlo's monsters? please what could you guys have in your minds.
- Yes another thing, you should stop to monitor drops or whatever, and to each time wait 1 week to give your so called feedback to the team (that really musn't correspond to what your players are telling you else things wouldn't be this way)everyone knows drop rates are a fail atm, and that your new drop system is not even close to be good, you : "the team" seems to be the last ones who need to realize it.


You are completey right. It's a contorted method of doing things, kind of like this:

Powdered Toast Man saves a cat

Powdered Toast Man = Gravity
Cat = Issues that need to be resolved
People in the planes/truck = Players
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#20 Zeppelin

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 11:09 AM

Just want to chime in and say thank you for all of the feedback so far. I'm building a report that I'm sending to the Development Team early next week, so the more information you can provide (such as the information already listed in this thread), is appreciated.

@Phish, great video. I appreciate the light-hearted approach, but your sentiments definitely come across.
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#21 DoubleRose

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 11:21 AM

no one wants elven, golden etc

people like dark gear for a-speed
legendary for int if your a cleric/con if your an arti
demon for critical

grand is inferior to reinforced and should be. the other "blues" are just worthless drops.
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#22 Kaizy

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 12:31 PM

no one wants elven, golden etc

people like dark gear for a-speed
legendary for int if your a cleric/con if your an arti
demon for critical

grand is inferior to reinforced and should be. the other "blues" are just worthless drops.


This is important too and they should realize it.
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#23 Gojio

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 12:48 PM

no one wants elven, golden etc

people like dark gear for a-speed
legendary for int if your a cleric/con if your an arti
demon for critical

grand is inferior to reinforced and should be. the other "blues" are just worthless drops.


In regards of this matter, I will copy-paste a post I wrote on another thread concerning drops.

"Take a look at the game, take a look at what's in demand and what's not. Some of those "Blue" stuff (Golden, Saint, Elven & Grand Especially) are totally, TOTALLY useless, remove them from the game, period. Keep Dark Demon and Legendary only, no one uses the others.

Make them drop from normal mobs if they really have to stay, no one uses them anyway. Give kings GOOD drops (Epics, Lisents, Aurum Drills, Jewelry Chests 4 and 5, Top Chemicals, heck maybe I can accept legendary gear drop from them, but the rest of the blues, shud not drop from kings).

Give ALL mobs the chance to drop catalysts\lisents, like it was before v.328. I'll never stop repeating that the droptable was really fine back then, and you just needed to cut the drop rate by 50%. Is it that hard?"
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#24 Niluje

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 03:33 PM

You have only one group for blue weapons and one for blue armors
But you should put Legendary weapons & armors in another group, make this group drop only from the tougher mobs and make all the other blues drop from easier mobs (like it was before)
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#25 Sathanas

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 05:21 PM

In regards of this matter, I will copy-paste a post I wrote on another thread concerning drops.

"Take a look at the game, take a look at what's in demand and what's not. Some of those "Blue" stuff (Golden, Saint, Elven & Grand Especially) are totally, TOTALLY useless, remove them from the game, period. Keep Dark Demon and Legendary only, no one uses the others.

Make them drop from normal mobs if they really have to stay, no one uses them anyway. Give kings GOOD drops (Epics, Lisents, Aurum Drills, Jewelry Chests 4 and 5, Top Chemicals, heck maybe I can accept legendary gear drop from them, but the rest of the blues, shud not drop from kings).

Give ALL mobs the chance to drop catalysts\lisents, like it was before v.328. I'll never stop repeating that the droptable was really fine back then, and you just needed to cut the drop rate by 50%. Is it that hard?"


mabe you need to have it in flashing neon before they get the hint to implement your idea into the game...i mean how many of us have +1'ed it now?
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