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Why can't KVM Badges and Hugel Medals be traded/vended?


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#51 Myzery

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 02:36 PM

Players in Japan don't exploit...
I've found via reports or being lucky many large exploits that could be taken advantage of in any RO version. We have done what we can to fix them, other versions either don't care and let it happen or their population doesn't do it so it isn't an issue. I'm not going to go into what exploits I've found, as I don't want to give the deviants any more ideas.

KVM rewards in the seal quest.. that actually could work out well.


You still haven't said why you wouldn't allow the box items to be passed around between players.
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#52 Kadnya

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 02:39 PM

I feel that a really important point would be to make the rewards for doing battlegrounds equal. As Jaye said, you can not expect everyone to feel teh same about easing the kvm upgrade/gear creation, if for some classes (Gx, sura) KVM gears mean they'll get really strong buffs, while for other classes, it just means others will get strong buffs and they'll die faster without any benefit. Kinda like with KVM bow, which even upgraded is still worse than an orc archer bow, for example. The gears need to be equally good for everyone, and after that, add also rewards people want so they have a reason to join battlegrounds even after they own the weapons.

I don't know how strong should all the buffs go to be balanced, but something that isn't super poor while other classes get nice bonusses would be good.

For bishop, I would like the weapon to increase HP by a good ammount, or grant the use of energy coat. Being the class made of glass, is really hard to be a strong support. Then maybe remove the cast time from clearance and let it be used on anyone. Keep the 10 seconds cooldown and it is still balanced. Maybe also de-nerf all the things bishop lost with renewal ^^; safety wall that blocked hits, assumptio that reduced damage, heal that healed, etc.

Edited by Kadnya, 25 April 2011 - 02:44 PM.

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#53 soudou

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 02:47 PM

Players in Japan don't exploit...


Then why does jRO need such highly stringent anti-botting and third-party program measures? I agree the cultures are VERY different, but not perfect.
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#54 Shane

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 02:54 PM

Also, if possible, please make a npc that allows you to trade KVM tokens -> Battleground tokens (and maybe the other way??). I would like to get a bg accessory, but nobody runs them on Ymir. I do have a few extra KVM badges that I could turn in.. so being able to trade KVM tokens for battleground tokens would be helpful. This wouldn't really be exploited that much, as battleground rewards are much less appealing now with KVM around. The accessory is still nice, though.
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#55 Andini

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 03:01 PM

bg rations are decent
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#56 Heimdallr

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 03:25 PM

An exchange between BG and KVM is possible. LIkely not at a 1:1 but is something we can do.

Regarding why I don't want to make KVM items/tokens tradable: it is because of the value in-game. it is valuable now because it is either time consuming or a cost to acquire. The moment they can be vended that value plummets and the plummeting value serves no function for us as a business or for KVM to become more played.

Other means of getting KVM tokens is no problem, I like some of the ideas, but you (that character) is still going to be the entity gathering them. That may change in the future if a Battle ground 2.0 is introduced or something like that where these are no longer the highest tier of PVP stuff. I've heard of WoE updates being worked on, I've not specifically heard much about a new PVP system though.
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#57 Kadelia

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 03:34 PM

Regarding why I don't want to make KVM items/tokens tradable: it is because of the value in-game. it is valuable now because it is either time consuming or a cost to acquire. The moment they can be vended that value plummets and the plummeting value serves no function for us as a business or for KVM to become more played

This makes no sense since you put them in lucky boxes and people could get thousands of them with 0 actual playing
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#58 renouille

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 06:40 PM

Maybe they see the value of KVM items as a proxy for the value of lucky boxes. Who knows?

The problem with KVM, and RO's PVP-for-rewards in general, is that there's no benefit to taking it seriously. Why should you expend considerable effort, and possibly wealth, to obtain at best the same results that you would get by always ending matches as quickly as possible (even with randomized teams)? Colluding isn't exploiting. It's using time efficiently and not throwing it away like an idiot.

You won't solve this problem by declaring that iRO's players are scum or by trying to legislate away the symptoms. You should start instead by asking yourself why real competitions don't have this problem.

If you increased the winners' rewards by 20x (for example) and raised the cooldown to 6 hours or so, I'd almost be willing to bet that people would start PVPing as if their lives depended on it. Some might object, claiming that this would hand out substantially more for only a fraction of the "work"... but then I'd have to ask--would that really be worse than the present situation, where your only realistic options are either to fling your life savings into the house's coffers or to waste hundreds of hours playing like a mindless AFKemist?
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#59 HRdevil

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 06:55 PM

Before ever touching KVM on any of iRO official server, I suggest you open up a test server first before making some epic glitch and ruin KVM for months like what happened with Flavius and Tierra or any iRO only update you guys are planning.
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#60 Myzery

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 08:01 PM

An exchange between BG and KVM is possible. LIkely not at a 1:1 but is something we can do.

Regarding why I don't want to make KVM items/tokens tradable: it is because of the value in-game. it is valuable now because it is either time consuming or a cost to acquire. The moment they can be vended that value plummets and the plummeting value serves no function for us as a business or for KVM to become more played.

Other means of getting KVM tokens is no problem, I like some of the ideas, but you (that character) is still going to be the entity gathering them. That may change in the future if a Battle ground 2.0 is introduced or something like that where these are no longer the highest tier of PVP stuff. I've heard of WoE updates being worked on, I've not specifically heard much about a new PVP system though.


So you're openly admitting that you think that you'll lose money by doing this? At least give people a way to get rid of badges they don't want.
You, Heimdallr are the only reason the badges are in boxes and you seem to come off increasingly greedy when it comes to matters like this.
This is why so many people refer to you as "Heimdollar".
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#61 HayrohsLegacy

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 04:04 AM

Since you've been putting all KVM badges in boxes, can you also put the Flavius/Tierra Badges too??? Coz I've been reporting these unfixed bugs in BG since Renewal came, that's why Battlegrounds is already dead for ages, another minus fun for this once epic game...

And Battlegrounds 2.0? Hope you would fix first 1.0 before this... And for all BG/KVM badges, make em tradeable til you fix BG, we can't get the stuffs we badly need while we just let this bug all time annoying BG... /pif
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#62 Hrothmund

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 06:34 AM

Currently we need to fix the battles so they actually work as intended, then work on the incentives to do them.

Some of the thoughts on the matter is to have times when the KVM gives more rewards so people will go and do them then.
The battles aren't really "battled over" it is instead a farming method which helps no one, KVM needs the randoming as well to keep the side stacking from occurring, which is a fundabmental issue that iRO has because of the way our players tend to play.

giving KVM points for doing monster area isn't a bad idea as long as their is not an exploit for the arena (which right now there is no reward so there is no exploit). Exploits are a key problem that I keep seeing come up in the past few months, sadly removing the exploits tend to take away some of the legit fun aspects as well.

Currently there are means of getting the KVM stuff, they need some love, but that love will take place after the seal quests get a bit more love. The seal quests are what we are working on for the next 2 weeks, after which we will work on the new player game aspects for 2 weeks.


I might suggest that if the prize for winning wasnt 500% greater than the prize for losing, people would be less inclined to stack the sides. I think most people who legitimately play it probably wouldnt mind something like win:4 lose:3 instead of win:5 lose:1, since that encourages people to take part even if they lose most of the time. It'd also stop people quitting out if they end up on the 'losing' team.

I dont see an issue with putting KVM badges specifically in tradable/vendable category because theres no possible way to exploit the badges other than having a large credit card limit. If KVM/BG is on the table for radical revamping (the saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink" comes to mind) then ok.

I disagree with hugel medals being tradable though since they can be botted unlike KVM badges (since you get char bound points, not very useful on a bot).

and yes it sucks that anything on iRO has to be 10x more exploit proof than other servers so that anything fun gets watered down so that even min/max exploiters can't deviate too far.....

Edited by Hrothmund, 26 April 2011 - 06:38 AM.

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#63 DarkDan

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 09:11 AM

An exchange between BG and KVM is possible. LIkely not at a 1:1 but is something we can do.

Regarding why I don't want to make KVM items/tokens tradable: it is because of the value in-game. it is valuable now because it is either time consuming or a cost to acquire. The moment they can be vended that value plummets and the plummeting value serves no function for us as a business or for KVM to become more played.

Other means of getting KVM tokens is no problem, I like some of the ideas, but you (that character) is still going to be the entity gathering them. That may change in the future if a Battle ground 2.0 is introduced or something like that where these are no longer the highest tier of PVP stuff. I've heard of WoE updates being worked on, I've not specifically heard much about a new PVP system though.


You have a big problem Heim. You don't want to drive down the value of the medals and KVM by making it tradable. I agree that those drive people to buy your precious boxes. You know if you make it easier to get KVM in BG it will also reduce the value of KVM. It would make people happy but people would buy less lucky boxes. How do you make us happy and not reduce the value of the KVM?

I think that any incentive you try to make that doesn't envolve us getting more KVM is only going fail. Yall are pretty creative. Maybe im wrong and you will figure out a way to get us to play the BG strait but not make it so easy that it lowers the kvm's value.

You don't need to put the kvm in the boxes to make money. Be creative. The slotted sunnies sold some boxes. Come up with new stuff. Fix the BG to make it a little easier(and more fun) and don't worry about kvm in the boxes. You seem to like us to earn kvm more than buy it through lucky boxes. I know the people that play the game don't like people getting a kvm weapon through the boxes. Any pay to win aspect of the game makes people hot.
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#64 Kadelia

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 09:52 AM

Take the KVM medals out of the boxes... this is coming from someone who has dropped some $500-600 on lucky boxes in the last 6 months and has completely negated any and all requirement to actually do KVM.

There should be awesome (but not game-winning) gear that is never available again in lucky boxes. Online cash cows like Gaia Online make money selling "collectible" equipment that is never sold again, causing 1) price of item to skyrocket over time, making them investments, and 2) people make sure to nab them every month so they don't miss their opportunity permanently. There is always something new, and none is end-all-be-all so no need to ever cry about starting the game after it was offered. And certainly no need to listen to the people who do.

Problem iRO has had is it puts game-winning items in there like dress hat, rideword, sunglasses, and then people bellyache if they;re not offered again, because they are so pivotal in success. It'd be different if sunglasses[1] were offered now, and every 4 months a different slotted mid that has no function over sunglasses other than looks came out, and sunglasses was never offered again... then sunglasses would have collector's value, and nobody could cry about being mechanically inferior to people who played longer.

It should be easy to keep lucky boxes enticing going forward as long as the contents are cool and rare. People love collecting adorable hats and always like getting otherwise un-obtainable items such as Manual X3.

Edited by Jaye, 26 April 2011 - 09:54 AM.

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#65 EvilLoynis

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 01:03 PM

Take the KVM medals out of the boxes... this is coming from someone who has dropped some $500-600 on lucky boxes in the last 6 months and has completely negated any and all requirement to actually do KVM.



Got to ask here if you would be willing to give up the KvM badges/gear you got from the boxes then. I mean it's kind of hypocritical to say yeah take them out now that I have gotten what I wanted.

+1 if any agree with this please.
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#66 Kadnya

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 01:11 PM

Got to ask here if you would be willing to give up the KvM badges/gear you got from the boxes then. I mean it's kind of hypocritical to say yeah take them out now that I have gotten what I wanted.

+1 if any agree with this please.


I would gladly give my full kvm set and +9 fist if medals + HD ores magically dissappeared, but I doubt that will be the case...
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#67 Myzery

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 06:18 PM

Got to ask here if you would be willing to give up the KvM badges/gear you got from the boxes then. I mean it's kind of hypocritical to say yeah take them out now that I have gotten what I wanted.

+1 if any agree with this please.


I would give my extra KVM badges to friends for free if I could.
I have enough to get several weapons and they are useless for me.
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#68 Myzery

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 01:35 PM

What's the chance that we could get KVM badges put on Boxter at the very least?
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