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Why can't KVM Badges and Hugel Medals be traded/vended?


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#26 HRdevil

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 11:27 AM

It's real cool the amount of people you see with a +9 KVM now a days, the ones that never put a foot on the BG.
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#27 AtlasThunderbeef

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 11:53 AM

Mercs need to be put in again, they were really useful.
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#28 Myzery

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 07:09 PM

I liked mercs too, but they lost a bit of usefulness post renewal.
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#29 Hrothmund

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 11:37 PM

If you assume that those who want something will stop at nothing to get it, then:
tradable -> everyone gets exactly as many badges as they want -> no badges left over -> total $$$ spent
not tradable -> everyone gets at least as many badges as they want -> lots of badges left over on accounts that don't need/want them -> total $$$$$$$ spent


The real position will be somewhere between what i said and what you said, since in the non-tradable situation theres a lot less people who get/buy badges overall. I certainly wouldnt pay $$ for enough boxes to get a kvm weapon.

I would go so far as to say a great majority of boxes bought (probably 50% or so) are entirely for the purpose of resale. So if everything was bound they might gain a few extra sales from shrewd people, but the loss from resellers not being able to resell would be huge. I'm sure they are experiementing and keeping track of sales vs vendable vs boxter to get the right $$$ profit mix. I'm quite sure they realise having 90% of the stuff in boxter has a negative result on sales, much the same as making everything acc bound is bad for sales too.

Edited by Hrothmund, 25 April 2011 - 01:12 AM.

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#30 DarkDan

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 07:44 AM

I just recently got my first kvm weapon. I have +4 Glorious Bloody Roar. I took the WRONG route and said that it would be nice to upgrade it to +9 without fear of it breaking and got bashed on another forum. Im suprised I haven't seen as much bashing of this thread but thats beside the point. I really feel like it should be easier to get the kvm. Getting kvm in lucky boxes is not the answer. If you are lucky enough to get kvm in 5 boxes at all it likely cost the person a good bit of cash(easily over $100 likely). Making people spend ages farming kvm is also not the answer.

Yes I did buy lucky boxes but I have been in BG to farm kvm. When I was in there I was with a organized group of people that were trying to be as efficient as possible. There was some alt accounts being used as well. With a group of organized people it took a long while to even get 50 points. Thats with nobody hardly fighting on one side of the match. I couldn't imagine going in there without a organized group of people and farming. If every match had parties actively fighting to win, it would be a nightmare. Thief class characters running around that big map cloaked. It would take forever. That is if there was enough people in there to even start a match.

If you are lucky enough to finally get a KVM weapon, you darn sure don't want to risk breaking it to +7 with only a 1/3 shot at it happening. If the KVM weapon is not +9 then its only marginally better than non-kvm gear in most cases. You have a in game item that is really hard to get and make it strong only if its +9 with only a 1/3 shot of it upgrading to +7. Because Gravity let people make their kvm weapon +9 without risk of breaking less than a year ago, a lot of people have a +9 kvm weapons but people that just recently got their first kvm weapon can't get it to +9 to compete.

I know a lot of people don't care and like it the way it is now. They even post good reasons to back up why its better now. I know purist will say that there is nothing wrong with it the way it is. They like the kvm gear being rare and really don't care if people break a kvm weapon on upgrade. I tend to agree with some of their points. It just kind of sucks that odds are im going to break my rare kvm weapon but oh well.

Edited by DarkDan, 25 April 2011 - 09:19 AM.

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#31 EvilLoynis

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 08:03 AM

The other problem is that many of those "purists" aren't really so pure at all themselves. I mean the people who got there weapons to +7 and +9 during that HD event risk free are of course going to want to restrict everyone else from possibly competing with them.

I would really like to be able to find out the % of those though. I mean I bet it's at least 70% of the people who are against allowing KVM easements, tradable badges or better upgrade rates etc, already got there weapons to +7/9 during the event risk free.


No such thing as pure in this game. Show me one person who's got a KVM weapon to +7 even, from pure BG's, with truly playing it legit with no alts. I truly don't think this is at all possible unfortunately.

Hey here's an Idea for a weekly event, Double, Triple, Quadruple BG rewards. I really don't understand why this have never happened yet to tell you the truth. Also new bracket needed for 100+.
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#32 IronFist

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 09:03 AM

ITs like Battleground Medals YOU HAVE TO EARN IT!!
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#33 soudou

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 09:15 AM

I beleive the situation with BG is a game flaw and should be fixed in-game so that its more fun, rewarding and easier to do BG with others. But since they aren't capable of doing that yet so far it seems (its been years with this same situation) I think making the badges tradeable is fair. But I'm against fixing the KvM situation with Kafra Shop-only stuff like what we have now with the untradeable Lucky Box Badges, HD Ores etc. I like how jRO refused to implement kRO's version of Battlegrounds because they flat-out felt "the battleground system had too many bugs and was not user friendly enough to be implemented on their server". Their Link System is much better since you have a lot of options in getting coins, the coins are tradeable etc. Though they adjusted the weapons so that you have to upgrade them slightly further to get same effects due to how powerful the weapons are. But thats also because the weapons are easier to get over there so they can have more chance to upgrade without emptying their pockets.

Hey here's an Idea for a weekly event, Double, Triple, Quadruple BG rewards. I really don't understand why this have never happened yet to tell you the truth.


Just beofre this Lucky Box event was added there was that thread with many people suggesting a in-game BG/KvM event, sadly don't think it'll happen now. But I think they messed up Tierra/Flav when they tried to tweak it making it very buggy with people appearing in the sky. With how buggy KvM is I think the server might explode if they tweak it. :) On the jRO Link System article it said there was a rumour kRO may overhaul BG in 2011, wonder if it'll ever happen. They must know the current system is pretty flawed.
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#34 Heimdallr

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 09:57 AM

Right now if people exploit we can "kill" the rewards and not worry about them being spread out to the rest of the community. What happens when a players gives all their tokens to another then does something that gets that acct banned? The reward is still out in the world, and if we take it away from the receiver they are very likely to quit because of the annoyance.

If you don't want to do the PVP battles you don't deserve the PVP rewards. Now there is a chance and intention of fixing the KVM battle grounds to be more fun, less abused and hopefully more performed.
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#35 Shane

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 10:10 AM

If you don't want to do the PVP battles you don't deserve the PVP rewards. Now there is a chance and intention of fixing the KVM battle grounds to be more fun, less abused and hopefully more performed.


Then why are you putting them in lucky boxes? Or do you mean "If you don't want to do the PVP battles or pay us lots of money..."?
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#36 Beata

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 10:25 AM

^ That made me chuckle.

I'd say scrap the whole KvM/BG arenas and make the badges obtainable through various existing/new quests in game... god seal quests maybe?
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#37 Heimdallr

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 10:31 AM

The point is, if an account does an abuse the reward is neatly killed with it, which is impossible if you can trade it away, we may as well then make KVM gears tradable too..
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#38 Shane

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 10:38 AM

I don't see a compelling reason for the KVM gears to be account bound if the primary source of them is from lucky boxes. Originally when they were only obtainable from spending months farming KVM (or days bugging it), then yeah, it was a reward that only a select few had. Now anyone with $200 to drop on RO has one and a lot of people who spend more than that have badges and nothing to use them on. Sure, KVM weapons are super powerful but so are god items, so are mvp cards, those are tradable and take a lot longer to acquire than simply spending a paycheck when a lucky box event rolls around.

Making KVM harder to get now simply increases the relative power of those who already have their KVM weapons from previous events. Be it when 1000x KVM medals were in lucky box, or the hd upgrader from +4-+7, those people already have their items and making it harder for other people to "catch up" so to speak only serves to frustrate newcomers who want to compete. I understand there is a lot of money to be made by making people buy 50 or so lucky boxes just to get one KVM weapon (which will likely break trying to get to +7), but i you're really worried about game balance or fairness, you're going in the wrong direction IMO.
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#39 soudou

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 10:38 AM

KvM weapons are useful in PvM too. There are many "Human" type like Kobolds, Raydrics, Rachel, Bios etc. I don't think the BG weapons should only be considered for PvP/WoE so I don't think its so bad to be able to get them in other ways like jRO. Such as PvM Kunlun Monster Arena etc.

The fact that KvM is just PvP battles is part of the problem though I feel. There's really nothing new and exciting about it. RO already had PvP for years, KvM should of provided some more varied and new challenges to compete against other players. Like how Tierra has the variety in capture the flag, defend the foodstore, rush the enemy store etc. (just a shame it rarely runs due to high playercount required).

Whats your ideas for making KvM "more fun"? It's just I don't think that it was very effective for Flav and Tierra to just randomise the sides and leave it at that (I don't see anyone in Ymir BG doing them). Also I imagine if its going to stay a 5-a-side thing people will want to team up with friends/guildmates on 1 side. Plus people have been reporting the issues with KvM for years (like the end of match NPC appearing at the start of the match) and none of them have been fixed. So KvM needs a lot more work than the other BGs just by its very foundation before new stuff.

Is there any truth in the rumour kRO will overhaul BG in 2011? They created the mess, they should be fixing it.
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#40 DarkDan

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 10:42 AM

Right now if people exploit we can "kill" the rewards and not worry about them being spread out to the rest of the community. What happens when a players gives all their tokens to another then does something that gets that acct banned? The reward is still out in the world, and if we take it away from the receiver they are very likely to quit because of the annoyance.

If you don't want to do the PVP battles you don't deserve the PVP rewards. Now there is a chance and intention of fixing the KVM battle grounds to be more fun, less abused and hopefully more performed.


As far as the first part goes, just take away the illegal item and give the person back his zeny. Yall already do that right? If the person didn't earn the badges and didn't spend zeny(or trade items) for the badges, they really don't have grounds to complain.

Yall probably know this and I don't know the policy on this but BG is really more player vs alt. If its illegal, then its not being watched. People that play the game are intelligent and will find the most efficient way to obtain a reward. For me it was more efficient to buy some lucky boxes lol.

If you removed the 10 person per match rule and lowered the cool down between matches a bit, it would probably help a lot. I didn't see any of the bugs people report. You probably already have heard these arguements before.

You worry about people rage quitting if you take away a reward. Think about the people who break a KVM weapon during a upgrade attempt. I know you don't have to upgrade it but what makes the kvm weapons special is the +9 upgrade. Sadly mine will stay +4 for a while but I may risk it. If it breaks, I may give up ever trying to get another one. Really not worth the effort or cash to me.

If you don't do the pvp battles you can still get kvm through the lucky boxes. People didn't earn those badges in BG. I don't mind it though. I actually like the kvm in the boxes lol.

Thanks for responding Heim.
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#41 Kadelia

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 10:42 AM

There really isn't a point to fixing KVM/Tiera/Flavius if the rewards are worthless or disabled. Nobody is going to want to test it.

Give out consumables of some kind on par with Korean Rice Cake (10% heal pot in renewal is pretty beast) and not as hard to get as the 5% HP rations are right now (way too much effort to get 1 ration right now, and they don't even heal enough to beat out whites).

More importantly the gear needs to be updated. Scream at South Korea if you have to. Do not even try to pretend Glorious Fist or Glorious Spear are not infinitely more useful than Glorious Lariat or Bow, which have uselessly low ATK values and secondary options nowhere near as good.

Edited by Jaye, 25 April 2011 - 10:51 AM.

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#42 EvilLoynis

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 11:41 AM

I kind of disagree here. I DO believe that the gear should be account bound. I just believe that things like the badges from Lucky Boxes should be tradable.

Heim I think this would get around your main objection. I mean what kind of abuse would be great enough to make the badges go away. And remember their is a vast difference between Points, Badges and Account Bound. I am all for Account Bound items and points, though I do think points should be Account not character bound. I just want the badges to be tradable. I mean out of the 25-30 boxes I opened I got 3 Mystical Card Albums and 2 KVM boxes. I would have preffered all 5 to be KVM. Also didn't open anything else better than these, no slotted sunnies :) . I mean I believe I wasted like $50 myself and I regret it so much since I didn't even get 1 damn KVM weapon out of it or the sunnies.


Shane I also agreed with most of the post and the "catching up" statement. The fact that they opened the door with those HD ores working from +4 ounce then slammed it shut so fast really punished everyone else that couldn't do it at the time and gives them such an edge no matter anything that people starting now can do.

Edited by EvilLoynis, 25 April 2011 - 11:45 AM.

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#43 Myzery

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 11:41 AM

The point is, if an account does an abuse the reward is neatly killed with it, which is impossible if you can trade it away, we may as well then make KVM gears tradable too..


What are you talking about? You can't trade the KVM points you get from actually doing it normally.
We are asking that the badges from boxes only are made so that they can be traded/vended. Maybe I'm just out of it, but I don't get what you mean.
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#44 Heimdallr

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 11:44 AM

Currently we need to fix the battles so they actually work as intended, then work on the incentives to do them.

Some of the thoughts on the matter is to have times when the KVM gives more rewards so people will go and do them then.
The battles aren't really "battled over" it is instead a farming method which helps no one, KVM needs the randoming as well to keep the side stacking from occurring, which is a fundabmental issue that iRO has because of the way our players tend to play.

giving KVM points for doing monster area isn't a bad idea as long as their is not an exploit for the arena (which right now there is no reward so there is no exploit). Exploits are a key problem that I keep seeing come up in the past few months, sadly removing the exploits tend to take away some of the legit fun aspects as well.

Currently there are means of getting the KVM stuff, they need some love, but that love will take place after the seal quests get a bit more love. The seal quests are what we are working on for the next 2 weeks, after which we will work on the new player game aspects for 2 weeks.
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#45 Myzery

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 11:49 AM

Let's directly talk about the rewards from boxes. Hugel medals and KVM badges. Why can't we have these items unbound and able to be vended at the very least?
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#46 soudou

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 12:19 PM

giving KVM points for doing monster area isn't a bad idea as long as their is not an exploit for the arena (which right now there is no reward so there is no exploit). Exploits are a key problem that I keep seeing come up in the past few months, sadly removing the exploits tend to take away some of the legit fun aspects as well.


You could ask jRO if they had any exploits on their coins system and if so how they resolved them. You can get "coins" on jRO via Aldebaran Turbo Track, Izlude Arena, WoE Treasure Boxes, Endless Tower Ash of Darkness Turnin and the Kafra Services Rewards System. Also MvPs have a chance of dropping "Coin Holder" which gives random coins. You have to collect a certain amount of each coin for a weapon (but its important the coins are tradeable with that system as not everyone can do all of the things required).
http://ro.doddlercon.com/home/?p=32

iRO doesn't have to do exactly the same (jRO also tweaked the gears themself). But I do think an in-game solution would be better than relying on Lucky Boxes unless the badges in boxes were made tradeable so that it isn't only about how much $$$ you have. Bear in mind also that every time badges are put in Lucky Boxes it *lowers* the already low activity in KvM. For every person who decides to obtain the badges that way instead thats 1 less person trying to do it in-game, leaving the rest in the lurch. So allowing others to get the badges in Lucky Boxes via ingame means (vendable baddges) like the headgears and other things would be more fair to the rest.
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#47 Shane

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 12:23 PM

Currently there are means of getting the KVM stuff, they need some love, but that love will take place after the seal quests get a bit more love. The seal quests are what we are working on for the next 2 weeks, after which we will work on the new player game aspects for 2 weeks.


How about both at once? Make the Seal quests give KVM badges as a reward. Encourage seal rolling and kvm items at the same time!
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#48 Xellie

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 12:37 PM

I think you should put in a KVM only upgrader with enhanced rates. Make special ores for it or each upgrade attempt cost KP perhaps, but it would help with the rarity of the items.
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#49 Heimdallr

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 02:08 PM

Players in Japan don't exploit...
I've found via reports or being lucky many large exploits that could be taken advantage of in any RO version. We have done what we can to fix them, other versions either don't care and let it happen or their population doesn't do it so it isn't an issue. I'm not going to go into what exploits I've found, as I don't want to give the deviants any more ideas.

KVM rewards in the seal quest.. that actually could work out well.
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#50 Lambor

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 02:12 PM

The longer, less rewarding seal quests should give more. Those are the hardest to get going.

+1 to that idea.
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