84 replies to this topic

[HRdevil]

I don't know why people suggest these god items/MvP cards like if anyone can afford them. I bet not even the guy that post such thing can afford that.

Edited by HRdevil, 15 May 2011 - 01:40 AM.

[meaning42]

I don't know why people suggest these god items/MvP cards like if anyone can afford them. I bet not even the guy that post such thing can afford that.

I don't even think there are enough of those items to go around, so even if 10 people could afford them, they couldn't even get it.

[Anko]

Upcoming warlock equips:
Warlock specific equipment:

2007#Golden Lord Staff [2]#
A magic staff that holds the power of blowing wind.
---------------------
Increases Jupitel Thunder attack power by 12%.
INT + 3, MATK + 230.
---------------------
When the Golden Lord Staff, Robe, Shoes, and Orb are used together:
Increases damage of wind element magic by 40%.
Decreases damage of earth element magic by 30%.
Decreases resistance to earth element attacks by 50%.
---------------------
Type: Two-Hand Staff
Attack: 30
Weight: 90
Element: Wind
Weapon Lv: 4
Req Lv: 100
Job: Warlock

2008#Aqua Staff [2]#
A magic staff that holds the power of freezing ice.
---------------------
Increases Cold Bolt and Frost Diver attack power by 12%.
INT + 3, MATK + 230.
---------------------
When the Aqua Staff, Robe, Shoes, and Orb are used together:
Increases damage of water element magic by 40%.
Decreases damage of wind element magic by 30%.
Decreases resistance to wind element attacks by 50%.
---------------------
Type: Two-Hand Staff
Attack: 30
Weight: 90
Element: Water
Weapon Lv: 4
Req Lv: 100
Job: Warlock

2009#Crimson Staff [2]#
A magic staff that holds the power of burning fire.
---------------------
Increases Fire Bolt and Fire Ball attack power by 10%.
INT + 3, MATK + 230.
---------------------
When the Crimson Staff, Robe, Shoes, and Orb are used together:
Increases damage of fire element magic by 40%.
Decreases damage of water element magic by 30%.
Decreases resistance to water element attacks by 50%.
---------------------
Type: Two-Hand Staff
Attack: 30
Weight: 90
Element: Fire
Weapon Lv: 4
Req Lv: 100
Job: Warlock

2010#Forest Staff [2]#
A magic staff that holds the power of the magnificent earth.
---------------------
Increases Earth Spike and Heavens Drive attack power by 10%.
INT + 3, MATK + 230.
---------------------
When the Forest Staff, Robe, Shoes, and Orb are used together:
Increases damage of earth element magic by 40%.
Decreases damage of fire element magic by 30%.
Decreases resistance to fire element attacks by 50%.
---------------------
Type: Two-Hand Staff
Attack: 30
Weight: 90
Element: Earth
Weapon Lv: 4
Req Lv: 100
Job: Warlock

2467#Golden Lord Shoes [1]#
Long gold colored shoes that hold the power of wind.
---------------------
MDEF + 2, Max HP + 500, Wind element resistance + 15%.
---------------------
Type: Shoes
Def: 12
Weight: 50
Req Lv: 100
Job: Warlock

2468#Aqua Shoes [1]#
Long navy blue colored shoes that hold the power of water.
---------------------
MDEF + 2, Max HP + 500, Water element resistance + 15%.
---------------------
Type: Shoes
Def: 12
Weight: 50
Req Lv: 100
Job: Warlock

2469#Crimson Shoes [1]#
Long red colored shoes that hold the power of fire.
---------------------
MDEF + 2, Max HP + 500, Fire element resistance + 15%.
---------------------
Type: Shoes
Def: 12
Weight: 50
Req Lv: 100
Job: Warlock

2470#Forest Shoes [1]#
Long blue green colored shoes that hold the power of earth.
---------------------
MDEF + 2, Max HP + 500, Earth element resistance + 15%.
---------------------
Type: Shoes
Def: 12
Weight: 50
Req Lv: 100
Job: Warlock

2859#Golden Lord Orb [1]#
A wind embued gold colored ornament.
---------------------
INT + 1, MDEF + 2.
Wind element resistance + 15%.
When receiving physical or magic damage, has a chance to invoke Jupitel Thunder Lv 3.
---------------------
Type: Accessory
Def: 2
Weight: 20
Req Lv: 100
Job: Warlock

2860#Aqua Orb [1]#
A water embued navy blue colored ornament.
---------------------
INT + 1, MDEF + 2.
Water element resistance + 15%.
When receiving physical or magic damage, has a chance to invoke Frost Nova Lv 3.
---------------------
Type: Accessory
Def: 2
Weight: 20
Req Lv: 100
Job: Warlock


2861#Crimson Orb [1]#
A fire embued red colored ornament.
---------------------
INT + 1, MDEF + 2.
Fire element resistance + 15%.
When receiving physical or magic damage, has a chance to invoke Sight Rasher Lv 3.
---------------------
Type: Accessory
Def: 2
Weight: 20
Req Lv: 100
Job: Warlock

2862#Forest Orb [1]#
A earth embued green colored ornament.
---------------------
INT + 1, MDEF + 2.
Earth element resistance + 15%.
When receiving physical or magic damage, has a chance to invoke Quagmire Lv 3.
---------------------
Type: Accessory
Def: 2
Weight: 20
Req Lv: 100
Job: Warlock

15025#Golden Lord Robe#
A flashy gold colored robe embued with the power of wind.
---------------------
INT + 1, MDEF + 10.
Decreases Lord of Vermillion variable cast time by 3 seconds.
If you have 120 base int, adds an additional INT + 1.
---------------------
Type: Armor
Def: 40
Weight: 50
Element: Wind
Req Lv: 100
Job: Warlock

15026#Aqua Robe#
A loose fitting blue colored robe embued with the power of water.
---------------------
INT + 1, MDEF + 10.
Decreases Storm Gust variable cast time by 3 seconds.
If you have 120 base int, adds an additional INT + 1.
---------------------
Type: Armor
Def: 40
Weight: 50
Element: Water
Req Lv: 100
Job: Warlock

15027#Crimson Robe#
A fine crafted crimson colored robe embued with the power of fire.
---------------------
INT + 1, MDEF + 10.
Decreases Meteor Storm variable cast time by 3 seconds.
If you have 120 base int, adds an additional INT + 1.
---------------------
Type: Armor
Def: 40
Weight: 50
Element: Fire
Req Lv: 100
Job: Warlock

15028#Forest Robe#
A conservative blue green colored robe embued with the power of earth.
---------------------
INT + 1, MDEF + 10.
Decreases Heaven's Drive variable cast time by 1 second.
If you have 120 base int, adds an additional INT + 1.
---------------------
Type: Armor
Def: 40
Weight: 50
Element: Earth
Req Lv: 100
Job: Warlock

[meaning42]

Aww, nothing for Sage. =(

[Mwrip]

So, give up your immune and all of your good cards, increase your vulnerability to an element, and be forced to an EVEN SLOWER cast speed because you have to revert to Phen instead of Orlean's, to do damage that still won't catch up to melee.

I'm... not very impressed.

[meaning42]

I guess that set makes them more of a glass cannon, not that the damage increase is huge enough and it only works with 1 element at the time.

[Scuba]

Who here has a variable cast time > 1% in strings?

[Kadelia]

Ok so...

1) Warlocks are great in PVM and can outdamage many classes at greater range
2) Warlocks have a variety of support skills and crowd control techniques that make them useful @ woe
3) Warlock is a great party-play class;

And you are complaining because they are not top-tier damage in WoE? With the only reason they are not top tier being they are out-shadowed by bugged skills that ignore woe reduction?

Excuse my ignorance here but shouldn't the argument be fixing those bugged RK/Genetic/Sura/etc. skills that ignore woe reduction rather than buffing the DPS of Warlock more? Seeing as how if those classes were properly woe balanced Warlock would look pretty great DPS-wise. I kind of feel like I am the only one with an ounce of common sense here.

Or do most of you really not know the only reason Dragon's Breath, Knuckle Arrow, Cart Canon etc hurt in woe is because they ignore -50% woe reduction?

Edited by Jaye, 16 May 2011 - 06:17 AM.

[heyxsean]

Knuckle Arrow, Cart Canon etc hurt in woe is because they ignore -50% woe reduction?

Argument became invalid.

[Wizard]

Who here has a variable cast time > 1% in strings?

I got 5% w/o strings =S... maybe if I add up +20's food I might be able to get it. Quite lazy to test that out =S.

Lol, didn't know this thread was still up...

PS 1: You don't need billion zeny in gears to have decent damage... +8 SoD and Panic Valk would do almost the same... but KvM SoD is preferable... and yes... GTB will negate the Warlock completely with exception of Frost Mist and Earth Strain which effect's bypass it (for now at least). The only good God Items for Warlock are "Brynhild" and "Sleipnir"... and that +5% comes in handy sometimes =). You don't need Hibram shoes to have decent damage... just the correct set up.

If they ever do that WoE event w/o God Items and w/o GTB and such... the result would still be the same... TV and CL will still be as powerful as it is right now... with the difference that you can actually kill anyone since they will not have GTB or Maya Shield to protect themselves (which is quite common nowdays on Ymir... ppl with GTB and Maya Shield and Kaite everywhere xD)

PS 2: With elemental set, you can get as much as 12XX (counting with the new card "Zakudam" which inflicts +10% more magic damage against demihuman), plus I believe that staff have 2 slot and since it is level 4 weapon, you can add "Matk" with the new enchant thing.

Edited by Wizard, 16 May 2011 - 10:52 AM.

[Zayik]

@Jaye You know, this post isn't just about Warlocks. It's about all spellcasters. Even with the "new" equipment coming out, it does nothing to actually fix the problems with cast time and matk.

[Kadelia]

@heyxsean
Fail attempt. Try being right next time.

[Anko]

So, give up your immune and all of your good cards, increase your vulnerability to an element, and be forced to an EVEN SLOWER cast speed because you have to revert to Phen instead of Orlean's, to do damage that still won't catch up to melee.

I'm... not very impressed.

I kinda agree with you but on the other hand 40% increase in damage is quite alot. Shame it only works on one element at a time and requires a whole set that makes you more squishy. But i guess their intention is that the set is to be used when you have support.

Perhaps they are being cautious because WL skills can have such huge aoe and hit so many ppl so even though individual target damage may not be that high, cumulative potential for dmg is there. Other than gtb some of their skills can only be blocked by mvp cards and kaite (but does that not make you take 3 times the dmg so if the enemy is wearing kaite everyone else in your guild is gonna kill them).

That was the first set of warlock equips they made to buff warlock, wonder if they made more since.

[Wizard]

@Jaye You know, this post isn't just about Warlocks. It's about all spellcasters. Even with the "new" equipment coming out, it does nothing to actually fix the problems with cast time and matk.

^ True... but it is true that Spellcaster have a way to get around cast time and matk... first of all, sorcerers are able to get instant cast and they have more variable cast time than fixed which makes it more easier to get fast cast... in other hand warlocks have the worst part in it... but combining your DEX, INT and Cast Reduction gear you can get reduce the cast time to 15% or so and that's w/o God Items and keeping a high matk as well... I said before... Sorcerers matk is not that high since their formula wasn't design to kill but to control... while for warlocks , their skill formula is a lil bit higher depending on the skill... remember that after adding weapon and base matk, you have to multiply it to %matk which at the end will play a big part in your end matk...

I kinda agree with you but on the other hand 40% increase in damage is quite alot. Shame it only works on one element at a time and requires a whole set that makes you more squishy. But i guess their intention is that the set is to be used when you have support.

Perhaps they are being cautious because WL skills can have such huge aoe and hit so many ppl so even though individual target damage may not be that high, cumulative potential for dmg is there. Other than gtb some of their skills can only be blocked by mvp cards and kaite (but does that not make you take 3 times the dmg so if the enemy is wearing kaite everyone else in your guild is gonna kill them).

That was the first set of warlock equips they made to buff warlock, wonder if they made more since.

Yeah, but if you go to WoE/PvP environment, you as Warlock will like to cast more wind spells than any other thing if you wanna deal damage... because not just it's formula have a high modifier but also, wind element is quite hard to block (valk shield's effect doesn't work against wind element) so the ways to reduce wind damage will be either using wind armor or 2 glorious rings (or kafra blossom card)... that's why I wasn't that worried about that card mainly because other than that, they can't reduce wind damage even further... so that elemental set with wind element will be a good thing if you focus just in wind element as damage skill element.

Warlocks went from AoE to Target/Multi-target spells. kinda like going in circle... mage (target) -> wizard (AoE) -> Warlock (target/multi-target).

And yes, gtb, mvp's cards and kaite are the ones who can block warlock's spells (Maya shield reflects spell while Kaite reflects the damage), and yes lol, it seems ppl didn't cared much about the 3x melee damage when they used Kaite... then again, dying by your own CL or TV is quite bad as well lol.

[heyxsean]

@heyxsean
Fail attempt. Try being right next time.

Knuckle Arrow, Cart Canon etc hurt in woe is because they ignore -50% woe reduction?

[Akin]

It's kind of sad that Warlocks are being fixed through gear instead of a change to the MATK formula because while it's good for them, it still leaves other classes that could use MATK SOL (magic ninjas, chasers, priests, 3rd class performers, etc).

Doddler posted something similar to this along time ago but for reference, here are the S.ATK and S.MATK formulas:

StatusATK = (STR + [DEX/5] + [LUK/3] + [BLvl/4]) * 2

StatusMATK = [INT * 1.5] + [DEX/5] + [LUK/3] + [BLvl/4]

Notice how S.ATK gets a 2x multiplier when it's applied into the final ATK formula, while only INT gets a 1.5x multiplier for MATK. Not to mention the fact that Weapon Attack is increased by 1% for every 2 STR, while Weapon Magic Attack is not affected by INT. Fix this and the disparity might just go away.

As for MvPs, their MATK is broken because it is based on their normal attack and that's why they do so much damage (level 20 skills doesn't help either).

I don't main a caster and performers have no real killing skill so I have little to no opinion on the Blossom card. I usually default a Alligator and Smokie card anyway with a sight clip and blast clip as my secondaries. I guess the main problem is that it makes kRO's job of balancing classes that much harder if they have to account for subsidiaries like iRO adding in cards that can affect classes like this one. I know glorious rings already exist, but I also don't think they were meant to be in such high circulation either. Thanks to iRO box events, however, they are.

[Kadelia]

[color="#000000"]It's kind of sad that Warlocks are being fixed through gear instead of a change to the MATK formula because while it's good for them, it still leaves other classes that could use MATK SOL (magic ninjas, chasers, priests, 3rd class performers, etc).

Doddler posted something similar to this along time ago but for reference, here are the S.ATK and S.MATK formulas:

StatusATK = (STR + [DEX/5] + [LUK/3] + [BLvl/4]) * 2

StatusMATK = [INT * 1.5] + [DEX/5] + [LUK/3] + [BLvl/4]

Notice how S.ATK gets a 2x multiplier when it's applied into the final ATK formula, while only INT gets a 1.5x multiplier for MATK. Not to mention the fact that Weapon Attack is increased by 1% for every 2 STR, while Weapon Magic Attack is not affected by INT. Fix this and the disparity might just go away.

You are completely ignoring the fact the the strongest nontrans melee skill is 1,000% while storm gust is 5,000%--- there is a reason mATK is lower than ATK. This trend continues into 3rd class where the strongest attacks tend to deal about 2000-5000%, while tetra vortex does 12,000%.

If your problem is with the rate of fire of melee class skills... its more a problem with their design, than with warlock's.

Edited by Jaye, 16 May 2011 - 03:54 PM.

[Mefistofeles]

I am a little unsure of the direction Ragnarok Online is actually taking. Over the past year, RO has implemented many things that have changed RO's gameplay dramatically. However, these changes seem to have nerfed Spell casters tremendously. Many items grant high resistance towards elements, (doesn't help they just released kafra blossom card which is 10% elemental resistance in an accesory), hindered cast time, and reduced the matk of characters. While I know ninjas are not a "buff" character, I used to be able to deal fairly high damage with him. I went from 1000 matk to barely even 300. My damage decreased dramatically, and even against monsters that have little mdef and 50 levels lower, I do crappy damage. Throughout the forums, I hear people laugh at the fact of a warlock being a damage dealer. They are considered useless in many posts in regards to mvp and WoE. People say they aren't even targetted much in WoE because their damage output is so low, combined with the slow cast times. Another aspect of magic that I'm worried about is that, quite frankly, everyone on RO that I've spoekn to tells me the same thing. My Stalker used to reach 1200 matk, and actually outperformed wizards and even some lower level high wizards. My matk is 350 now, with fairly decent matk gear. +8 Bazerald, +9 CoD of caster, byorgue card, and his magic damage is low.

The point is, will there be a place for spellcasters in our RO? Will Gravity balance RO out, as they intended to do with Renewal?

I for one, love playing spell casters, but, it appears that spell casters are being eliminated from the characters that can actually compete with others.

I'd like to hear your guy's opinions on this matter.

1.- A way to ignore Mdef in huge numbers (dear lord hwiz card dont count, even this card dont works in pvp)
2.- Skills like the new GX poisons and bloodsucker stops your cast time when you are in sacrifice(needs to be fixed or...it is as it was planed?)
3.- Almost all non magic users have instant cast or at least cant be stoped (instants are: all runes and ALL genetics skills)
4.- The %% gears dont work in status window, and doesnt matter how much MATK you get, the damage dont change, example: A Sorcerer level 148 with 120 int and 80 luck: equips Cronos+8, CoD +9(with KK card) KVM set, 2 medals of honor, it hits per wave a poring like 7k-9k with no gears except Kronos this sorc does 6k-9k, with a HUGE varibale cast time and a cursed fixed cast time, that would let a genetic spam 5 hell plants or mandragoras howling or cart canon or crazy weeds, each 1 does a poring like 45k+, pretty fair no? a sura needs drains a loot of sp to do that!

[Wizard]

You are completely ignoring the fact the the strongest nontrans melee skill is 1,000% while storm gust is 5,000%--- there is a reason mATK is lower than ATK. This trend continues into 3rd class where the strongest attacks tend to deal about 2000-5000%, while tetra vortex does 12,000%.

If your problem is with the rate of fire of melee class skills... its more a problem with their design, than with warlock's.

^ This...

Our Matk is not as high as ATK mainly because our spell's formulas are quite high with high modifier as well... plus you can even get more MATK thanks to Recog Spell which takes into account upgrade level and spell's modifier to generate max MATK.

But in other hand, it is true that we are kinda subject to what our equipment is... increasing our %Matk will depend mostly in what gears we are able to use... plus there are not that many gears "useful" for Warlocks, same with God Items...

4.- The %% gears dont work in status window, and doesnt matter how much MATK you get, the damage dont change, example: A Sorcerer level 148 with 120 int and 80 luck: equips Cronos+8, CoD +9(with KK card) KVM set, 2 medals of honor, it hits per wave a poring like 7k-9k with no gears except Kronos this sorc does 6k-9k, with a HUGE varibale cast time and a cursed fixed cast time, that would let a genetic spam 5 hell plants or mandragoras howling or cart canon or crazy weeds, each 1 does a poring like 45k+, pretty fair no? a sura needs drains a loot of sp to do that!

What? it is true that %matk doesn't show in status windows but it DOES affect your final damage... not sure about PW's formula but for Warlocks, %matk from gears and such is quite important... stacking good %Matk is what makes us go up to 12XX matk in several cases... you can test that out testing it w/o weapon and adding %matk gear 1 by 1... since there's no weapon, there will be no variation in your final MATK and you will have a better idea of how that works.

Edited by Wizard, 16 May 2011 - 06:02 PM.

[Mefistofeles]

^ This...

Our Matk is not as high as ATK mainly because our spell's formulas are quite high with high modifier as well... plus you can even get more MATK thanks to Recog Spell which takes into account upgrade level and spell's modifier to generate max MATK.

But in other hand, it is true that we are kinda subject to what our equipment is... increasing our %Matk will depend mostly in what gears are we able to use... plus there are not that many gears "useful" for Warlocks, same with God Items...

AND HE IS completely ignoring the fact that only 10 MDEF POINTS (in actual renewal) REDUCES 10% MAGIC DAMAGE... ONLY 10 POINTS, REPEAT... ONLY 10MDEF POINTS! while allmost all melee class users have a way to completely ignore enemies DEF

[Wizard]

AND HE IS completely ignoring the fact that only 10 MDEF POINTS (in actual renewal) REDUCES 10% MAGIC DAMAGE... ONLY 10 POINTS, REPEAT... ONLY 10MDEF POINTS! while allmost all melee class users have a way to completely ignore enemies DEF

Indeed... but that's because as I said, formula damage is higher than melee damage... but that doesn't change the fact that other classes having more variety of gear to them, have more options than Spellcasters...

[Viri]

Kaddybb neither cart cannon nor knuckle arrow ignore woe reduction... they ignore demi human reduction entirely/partially though. So do plenty of other skills though D:

EDIT: the only skill im not sure if it ignores WoE reduction is exceed break. Since it's a melee hit? I've barely managed to get certain peoples damage to a livable level(when they use the weapon swap trick) and the damage seems identical in WoE. Not thoroughly tested though.

Edited by Viri, 16 May 2011 - 07:42 PM.

[Akin]

You are completely ignoring the fact the the strongest nontrans melee skill is 1,000% while storm gust is 5,000%--- there is a reason mATK is lower than ATK. This trend continues into 3rd class where the strongest attacks tend to deal about 2000-5000%, while tetra vortex does 12,000%.

If your problem is with the rate of fire of melee class skills... its more a problem with their design, than with warlock's.

^ This...

Our Matk is not as high as ATK mainly because our spell's formulas are quite high with high modifier as well... plus you can even get more MATK thanks to Recog Spell which takes into account upgrade level and spell's modifier to generate max MATK.

But in other hand, it is true that we are kinda subject to what our equipment is... increasing our %Matk will depend mostly in what gears we are able to use... plus there are not that many gears "useful" for Warlocks, same with God Items...

Even with the higher multipliers, the damage is still quite low without elemental advantage (before and after renewal). TV is a perfect example; It was made by the devs to be a magic Gfist and the only way they could guarantee a high percentage of killing is by giving it a huge multiplier. But even with this, I would still take the DPS of any other melee class' AoEs over caster's magic skills in renewal, as would most people if you take a look at turn-in parties and siege. Sorcerers are saved in a way because PW is affected by (INT*3)% MATK and their other AoEs are heavily affected by their endow skills. Take those away and they would have crap damage as well.

As for SG, the damage is split and most people never get hit with all 10 hits making it easy to out-pot, same as our SR now. It's key benefit has always been it's ability to freeze.

Maybe I haven't run into the right Warlock yet, but I've never died to one in siege since RE came out last year. 70% of my death is Gfist and 193 ASPD Crit GXs (too cheap to pot ales), the rest is always focus fire by a 3 or more people.

The funny thing is, changing the S.MATK formula to match the S.ATK one wouldn't even buff casters that much so I'm not sure why you're arguing against fairness and simplicity.

[Scuba]

Kaddybb neither cart cannon nor knuckle arrow ignore woe reduction... they ignore demi human reduction entirely/partially though. So do plenty of other skills though D:

EDIT: the only skill im not sure if it ignores WoE reduction is exceed break. Since it's a melee hit? I've barely managed to get certain peoples damage to a livable level(when they use the weapon swap trick) and the damage seems identical in WoE. Not thoroughly tested though.

99% sure EB is considered a normal melee hit as far as woe is concerned. Im tempted to level a warlock just to see what kind of damage i can get out of it stacking all the crap i have.

[firzen]

Yea, they seem to have forgotten that spellcasters are MEANT TO deal the most damage. Thus why they are spellcasters with real low defense and melee abilities.

They were nerf'd fairly quickly due to their aoe range, but their aoe range is what makes them special.

1st class, 2nd, 2-2, spellcasters always were meant to deal high damage. All they have now is opportune skills, like jack frost to freeze enemies (no effect in WOE or MVP like you said).