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The Problem with RO


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#1 ZeroTigress

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 01:23 PM

I like playing MMORPGs for the main reason of being my escape from the real world. (And Disneyland tickets have gotten really expensive.) After being introduced to RO by my real-life friends, I discovered that it was based on a manhwa called Ragnarok so I purchased some volumes and began following the story. What disappoints me most is that the story that RO is based off of has absolutely no bearing on the game. Unlike Lord of the Rings Online where they have main storyline quests based on the books, there is nothing like that to be found in RO. There is so much potential to have the Ragnarok story expanded to the extent LOTRO did for the books and yet the Gravity Co. developers are making no such move to do such a thing.

It is only until after development started on RO2: Legend of the Second that I found out that, oh, RO supposedly occurs after the events in the manhwa. But where is the relevance in that? The manhwa itself stopped after volume 10 when Lee Myung-Jin began dedicating his creative efforts on RO and now RO2. What happened to the original story? Yes, quests werenâ??t implemented into the game until years after RO came out, but at the same time, when they did implement quests why didnâ??t they take that opportunity to adapt the manhwa into storyline quests? Have players go to Payon and meet Chaos, Iris, and Lord Irine before Sara came. Have Payon get destroyed during a quest in which Chaos summoned Nidhoggr. (Then years later Payon gets rebuilt into what it is today.) Have players travel to Prontera where they fight a valkyrie invasion and encounter Bijou the witch. Have players discover the ruins of the old Assassin Guild and encounter Skurai and Loki. Thereâ??s so much material they could use!

They have the story they need to make quests out of, but theyâ??re not doing anything about it. Yes, all these sidequests like the Sign and Kiel Hyre are good on their own, but what RO really needs to do to get players really involved in the gameâ??s universe is to utilize the story that the game is based off of because itâ??s a great story and itâ??s a darn shame theyâ??re not using any part of it other than job classes. In addition, there needs to be more quests that reward decent gear for players who are just getting started. Earning EXP is nice and all, but what new players really need are introductory quests that gives them some money and gear to get through the early portions of the game. Yes, the training grounds does that to some extent, but itâ??s just not good enough. Quests are what make a game feel less grindy and repeatable quests are just retarded.

Side activities I enjoy doing in other MMOs like fishing and cooking are just not worth it in RO. With fishing, you have to go to the New World to do it and you canâ??t even access the New World unless you do the access quest for that and you canâ??t even do the access quest until youâ??re level 70. And you canâ??t even cook the fish you catch or anything, itâ??s just a repeatable quest thing. (You can only fish in the New World, you canâ??t get a fishing rod and travel to any other water locations to fish.)

With cooking, you canâ??t start the quest to cook because you need an item that takes a ridiculous amount of items to make in the first place. And then once you manage to get the ability to cook, you go out to get these tedious-to-get items only to have it fail. And unlike other MMOs where the more you cook the better stuff you can make, thatâ??s just not possible in RO because you fail at higher levels regardless of how much youâ??ve cooked. You go through all that trouble to get those retarded ingredients only to fail. And to add insult to injury, the only place you can cook in is in the Prontera castle. You canâ??t just go into other townsâ?? kitchens and cook there, no; it has to be done at the Prontera castle or nothing. How lame is that???

Job levels in RO are a joke. You might as well call them base level the 2nd. In every other MMO Iâ??ve played, you earn stat points and skill points every time you base level while job levels pertain to how often you do activities related to your job. How interesting would RO be if job levels were an indicator of how well a player could play his/her character? But no, we canâ??t have something intuitive like that; we need the game to be all about grinding to max levels!

A lot of the content getting implemented in RO are mainly for high levels and PVP/WoE players. There is nothing to keep PvM players playing aside from mere item collecting and exploring areas not yet explored. My RO Achievement thread is nothing more than a sad attempt at finding something worthwhile to do in this game and even most of those are a one-time deal or something a player might find amusing. Theyâ??re adding more to the game, I can see that, but have they really improved the quality of the game? In my opinion, no. It's still the same grindy game with a different face.

Success rate for cooking.
Success rate for forging.
Success rate for slotting.
Success rate for pets.
Success rate for creating potions.
Success rate for enchanting.
Success rate for liking and sticking to RO.

Edited by ZeroTigress, 17 August 2010 - 03:58 PM.

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#2 Akihiro

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 01:29 PM

In the newest Nidhoggur quest that comes with 14.1, you meet Loki from the Manwha, if that means anything at all.

Posted Image

As for newer players having a rough time getting into the game, come renewal the Paradise Group will be introduced, which offers some quite easy kill quests that players can do for starter gear. They include:
The headgear that my Warlock is wearing in my sig, it can be enchanted with +2 of any stat of your choice
An armor that gives 300 hp and and 30 sp
A garment that gives 10% neutral resist
Shoes that give 14% hp recovery and I think 6% sp recovery
And a weapon related to your class, generally it's quite powerful.
All of the quests can be done prior to level 50.

I also hear ya when it comes to PvM players, there really isn't much for us past making new characters when we've gotten a character up there aside from PvP and WoE, which is fun in it's own right, but the joy of going out into the world with your friends and fighting together is something I'd much rather do.

Edited by Akihiro, 16 August 2010 - 01:37 PM.

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#3 Talvis

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 01:41 PM

A lot of the grinding with little other content is the result of one thing; it's a Korean MMO. Granted this is really the only Korean mmo, and only mmo period that I've played, I've always heard that this is the biggest issue with Korean MMOs. Primarily grind and pvp with not much else.
As far as crafting skill success rates, I'll agree, the success rates are stupid. Thanks to many different things, the only really useful crafting skill is potting. Cooking, replaced by kafra shop foods. Forging, carded weps > forged ele. How many Smiths in this game actually forge? In order to even have a semi decent success rate, your Smith has to have its stats so off kilter that it's horrible for anything else. Even with perfect forging stats, success rates are still quite low. When I created my Smith I was expecting to make tons of zeny forging, but then I realized the true success rates and now I rarely forge since even with decently high stats, I suck.
About the only thing that keeps me playing sometimes is the people I know. If most of them left, I would probably quit. Yeah, I have some on MSN, facebook etc, but without this as a common means of interaction, it's just not the same.
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#4 ZeroTigress

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 02:00 PM

In the newest Nidhoggur quest that comes with 14.1, you meet Loki from the Manwha, if that means anything at all.

That's not Loki, that has to be some NPC wannabe. Loki has SILVER hair in the manhwa, not brown. :lol: Whoever made that sprite needs to be punched in the face.

I also hear ya when it comes to PvM players, there really isn't much for us past making new characters when we've gotten a character up there aside from PvP and WoE, which is fun in it's own right, but the joy of going out into the world with your friends and fighting together is something I'd much rather do.

Same here. I want to be a part of the world, not just LEVELWOEPVPGRIND!!!

A lot of the grinding with little other content is the result of one thing; it's a Korean MMO. Granted this is really the only Korean mmo, and only mmo period that I've played, I've always heard that this is the biggest issue with Korean MMOs. Primarily grind and pvp with not much else.

Korean developers are known for taking the RPG out of MMORPG.

Edited by ZeroTigress, 18 August 2010 - 10:56 AM.

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#5 morphine

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 02:39 PM

I would definitely like to at least see higher success rates for some neglected things like cooking and forging... and perhaps a reevaluation of the required materials for both. If there was competition between players to speak of or the items were still particularly special, it would make sense for it to be more difficult, but as it is right now, very few people seem to even bother anymore, especially when it comes to cooking. If both were made somewhat more reasonable, at least players might use the features more regularly.

More rewarding story-based questing would be fantastic. It is already nice as a change of pace (personally speaking), but it would be fun if they were more common, had greater variety (other than simply talking to a set of NPCs, killcounts, or collecting items) and could actually be a reasonable replacement for the usual grinding. Class-specific quests given by various job guilds or relevant NPCs would also make sense since the tasks could be geared towards certain jobs' ability. Give us more ways to obtain common gears, cards, and consumables pleassse~

Make use of those old locations that have been driving me crazy for years instead of adding more maps. The Comodo casino where you can't gamble, the lighthouse that has been forever closed to the public, WHY CAN'T THAT RED DOT IN GEFFEN DUNGEON JUST LEAD TO GEFFENIA? You're making me go through the fountain?? Really?? *ahem* Over the years, those little things become kind of like a tease. It might be just me though. =(

I would actually like to see more temporary quests, events, and storyline-related changes to the world. It makes me want to stick around more when you never know when they will randomly blow up a town, since when you miss it, you feel like you missed out on something. I felt so sad when I returned to RO only to find my 'hometown' wasted by Satan Morroc. :[

Finally, minigames. :< I would LOVE some real, time-wasting minigames. Doesn't every good RPG have pointless but fun minigames for some pointless but fun accomplishments after you've maxed out your character and beat the bosses? I don't even know the Hell that implementing something like that would be, but God help me, minigames. I'm saying "minigames" a lot. Minigames minigames. Peco racing or a gunslinger shooter gallery or some stupid thing. I don't know. Minigames.

._.;; I don't think any of this ranting would actually make a difference, though...
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#6 ZeroTigress

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:04 PM

I would definitely like to at least see higher success rates for some neglected things like cooking and forging... and perhaps a reevaluation of the required materials for both. If there was competition between players to speak of or the items were still particularly special, it would make sense for it to be more difficult, but as it is right now, very few people seem to even bother anymore, especially when it comes to cooking. If both were made somewhat more reasonable, at least players might use the features more regularly.

The problem I have with success rates as a whole is that no matter how much you do something, there's no sense of improvement. You're always bound to fail no matter what and that irritates me, especially since some of the ingredients have a success rate in of themselves. I don't want to spend months getting items that have a 1% or less chance of dropping only to have it fail when I use it to craft something. Just take them out of crafting activities entirely.

More rewarding story-based questing would be fantastic. It is already nice as a change of pace (personally speaking), but it would be fun if they were more common, had greater variety (other than simply talking to a set of NPCs, killcounts, or collecting items) and could actually be a reasonable replacement for the usual grinding. Class-specific quests given by various job guilds or relevant NPCs would also make sense since the tasks could be geared towards certain jobs' ability. Give us more ways to obtain common gears, cards, and consumables pleassse~

I love it when there's a story behind the job classes as those get me even more attached to my characters. It instills class pride and adds more depth to a player's character.

Make use of those old locations that have been driving me crazy for years instead of adding more maps. The Comodo casino where you can't gamble, the lighthouse that has been forever closed to the public, WHY CAN'T THAT RED DOT IN GEFFEN DUNGEON JUST LEAD TO GEFFENIA? You're making me go through the fountain?? Really?? *ahem* Over the years, those little things become kind of like a tease. It might be just me though. =(

Kind of funny considering that in the manhwa, the Geffen fountain goes to Aflheim not Geffenia.

I would actually like to see more temporary quests, events, and storyline-related changes to the world. It makes me want to stick around more when you never know when they will randomly blow up a town, since when you miss it, you feel like you missed out on something. I felt so sad when I returned to RO only to find my 'hometown' wasted by Satan Morroc. :[

I really wish they had a housing system in RO. It'd give random stuff like dolls, vases, and dishes a meaning in the game. Cooking in your own house to increase your cooking ability would be pretty sweet as well.

Finally, minigames. :< I would LOVE some real, time-wasting minigames. Doesn't every good RPG have pointless but fun minigames for some pointless but fun accomplishments after you've maxed out your character and beat the bosses? I don't even know the Hell that implementing something like that would be, but God help me, minigames. I'm saying "minigames" a lot. Minigames minigames. Peco racing or a gunslinger shooter gallery or some stupid thing. I don't know. Minigames.

The only real minigames of note in the game are the Hugel Monster Races and those weird gambling games on the airship (yeah, because why have gambling games in, I don't know, the Comodo casino???). If they could implement some more minigames like player mount races and stuff, that would draw a lot of players into the game.
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#7 Ultimate

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:34 PM

my housing proposal:
http://forums.warppo...-advertisement/

Edited by Ultimate, 18 August 2010 - 10:33 AM.

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#8 morphine

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:38 PM

xD I wonder how much actual cash they could make from renting or selling existing, unused houses in game... :lol:; I shouldn't even say it...
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#9 ZeroTigress

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:38 PM

xD I wonder how much actual cash they could make from renting or selling existing, unused houses in game... :lol:; I shouldn't even say it...

Zeny sink anyone?
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#10 Ultimate

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:41 PM

Yes. 10billion zeny for prontera real estate. with a customizable code to enter your house (like the thief guild quest). personal kafra maids/npcs/etc. god it could be a guild location for WOE and a million other things. *makes new thread*

Edited by Ultimate, 16 August 2010 - 03:43 PM.

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#11 ZeroTigress

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:47 PM

Would be pretty cool to have guild houses for those who don't WoE. Would come with guild vaults and everything.
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#12 Denji

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 04:22 PM

Guild vaults aren't a bad idea. Wow uses them and they are amazing. I think that alot of the ideas in this thread, are very good. I also think that many of them relate to how WoW changed mmorpgs.

It really put the mmorpg world in a deathgrip, and still holds on quite a bit to this day. It's the depth, the involvement, the obtaining of "epic" items from quests. WoW in no way feels like a grind, but if you only kill monsters the whole time like we do in RO, it definitely would.

Most of the time I barely read the quest text in ro, if at all. Alot of the dialogue is mediocre at best, and generally un-interesting. When I first played wow and the scribbling text of the first quest started scrolling off, I was hooked. There's an inherent need to quest to find out more story, or kill more birds or pigs, or whatever, BUT there is a clear progression. The game always pushes you to the next strongest area. There's almost no sense of progression in ro.

People are born and die in south pront, without ever going anywhere else. mvp strategies usually consist of "cheap" tactics for the high-end mvps, with no real strategy.

I would hope that future mmo's (post-wow) would learn a thing or two about what makes a good game. Unfortunately that's not the case. There have been numerous flunk games since it, and there still will be. I just hope that RO2 adds the elements described above into the new iteration. The core game is very good, just need to raise the bar on a couple other things =)
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#13 ZeroTigress

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 04:43 PM

What WoW and LOTRO does that every other MMO seems to miss drastically is retaining the RPG of MMORPGs. Quests shouldn't be implemented for the sake of quests, they should contribute to the story and world of the MMO they're in. Money and good gear and weapons should be something that's earned, but not impossible to get. Crafting lets you become more a part of the in-game world by contributing to the game economy and allow players to not only depend on NPCs for necessities, but other players as well.

With MMOs like RO, everything is dependent on NPCs from food to gear. No one wants to use the auction house to sell their wares because of the insanely high fees. No one wants to forge weapons because they're so hard to make with the success rates (same with cooking, although that's further killed off by Kafra Shop foods). Very few people have pets because they're so hard to get and maintain. You can't get money from doing quests so low levels have to NPC everything they grab up or hope they get lucky with a Merchant in order to get any sort of income. You have to make your own fun in RO and even that's a stretch.
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#14 Sera

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 04:44 PM

200 Kafra Points to anyone who can coherently explain Requiem's plot as told through the quests.
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#15 Symm

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 04:45 PM

Ide up it to 10,000 for the -_-s and giggles.
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#16 ZeroTigress

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 04:46 PM

200 Kafra Points to anyone who can coherently explain Requiem's plot as told through the quests.

Requiem has a plot?
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#17 Sera

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 04:46 PM

I would too, but I have all my kafra points in increments of 200.

The world was happy until the thanatos happened and then Ionexic started creating cyborgs to fight with the monsters they create to terrorize the towns meanwhile everyone is waiting for Jesus to come back or something.

Edited by Sera, 16 August 2010 - 04:47 PM.

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#18 ZeroTigress

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 04:52 PM

The world was happy until the thanatos happened and then Ionexic started creating cyborgs to fight with the monsters they create to terrorize the towns meanwhile everyone is waiting for Jesus to come back or something.

That certainly explains the Requiem community.
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#19 Sera

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 04:56 PM

Mind you, this is explained over the course of like a hundred quests.
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#20 Talvis

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 05:32 PM

Why doesn't the RO dev team take some hints from the Req dev team and learn how to do more quests. One thing I've noticed about RO, prior to ep 10.x, there was no storyline. At least since ep 10.x there has been storyline quests granted most of them are annoying and quite often not worth the time to do unless you're bored or need the quests for dungeon/map access. Also, I give much credit to the people who actually figured out what the hell to to to complete those quest and were able to write guides down for the rest of us. Take NL entrance for example. Without a guide, I would have never known to talk to the magistrate in Veins. I probably would have given up on him after the first talk with him when he brushes you off. I probably wouldn't have figured out I had to talk to the door man then him again.
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#21 ZeroTigress

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 05:38 PM

The problem with the quests in RO is not the quantity but the quality of them. Yes, they have interesting stories but the NPCs themselves give you absolutely no direction other than "find this guy, go to a town that has something, etc." Anyone who can figure out a story quest in RO without using fansites is an insane genius or something. At least in Requiem the quest NPCs have those typical quest symbols above their heads and there's an interface that points you in the direction of the quest goals. It'd be a miracle for anyone to create a questhelper for RO.

Edited by ZeroTigress, 16 August 2010 - 05:39 PM.

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#22 Talvis

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 05:55 PM

Well, renewal will have quest markers, but I'm guessing the implementation will be like the quest log in that it will take years to get backward implementation on older quests.
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#23 ZeroTigress

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 07:09 PM

Heck, I liked what they did in RO DS. You go to the tavern and talk to the bartender NPC to get a list of all quests available in that town. You then select a quest and the bartender warps you to the first NPC of that quest. At the very least, it'll make taverns actually useful for something.

Edited by ZeroTigress, 18 August 2010 - 10:58 AM.

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#24 inuko23

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 07:38 PM

With cooking, you canâ??t start the quest to cook because you need an item that takes a ridiculous amount of items to make in the first place. And then once you manage to get the ability to cook, you go out to get these tedious-to-get items only to have it fail.


I thought that the white dyestuff and feathers needed made sense. but I never understood why you also need dragon scales and pieces of cake to make a chef hat :lol:

and weren't some cookbooks only obtainable through monster drops?
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#25 ZeroTigress

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 08:36 PM

and weren't some cookbooks only obtainable through monster drops?

Exactly. Collecting all the cookbooks are hard, plus higher level recipes are hard to make in of themselves because the ingredients they require have very low drop rates. Top all that with a success rate in cooking and it's like, why even bother putting in a cooking feature? :\
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