62 replies to this topic

[HRdevil]

Some people spend a ridiculous amount of cash in this game but I assume they have a job that makes em win a bunch of cash or steal their parents credit cards. I've heard of people spending 500$ on lucky boxes and others that buy God items and some that has made 0 effort and are billionairs selling KP.

I invest in this game mainly for upgrading and VIP for 1 month once. It depends really because I only upgrade stuff with High value like nyd garb or KVM weapon and not some crappy ygg crown. So if I have no rares or nothing to upgrade I could take about 2-3 month without putting money into this game. Strip club seems like a better option than 600$ on lucky boxes.

[Icey]

You also gotta consider the age of people that play ro. I have been playing off and on for over 6 years now. I was 22 year old kid when I first started playing, and now I'm almost 30years old. Im not a rich person and i do know the value of a dollar because i have been in the military for quite some time. On my time off i like to spend money on stuff I like RO that entertians me. Throughout my RO career im assuming my total is cash value spent is between 2-4k dollars. The Amount isnt a big deal cause if i didnt spend it on RO i would have spent that money on something else. Its not like I would have invested that 2-4k dollars, I would have just spent it on something else wether that be a cheeseburger or a TV.

don't you ever think to invest your money on something for example: gold, house, etc? do you ever think that you will need money if you get married and have kids? I don't have kid but i know taking care of kid is very expensive

Edited by Icey, 22 June 2011 - 10:12 AM.

[Icey]

It amazed me when people spend a $50-100 or more in the games, when they can barely have a job and the parents are not rich. Even if you are rich, I don't know how they live with just spending their parents tear, sweat and blood into virtual games where it won't give you any value to your life. I personally don't spent money in this game at all, I only spent $10-20 cash/credit on this game for a year.

[GuardianTK]

Consumers make jobs. Think about that first.

From my personal opinion, it's best to always attempt to strike a balance. Not too much and not too little. If people saved more than spending, it'd mean people would lose jobs rather than make them. Without jobs the economy would suffer. People who work for gaming companies definitely have to spend the money they earn themselves on food, housing, etc. That's not to say they don't spend any of it on entertainment though.

Edited by GuardianTK, 22 June 2011 - 10:36 AM.

[Miyuki]

It amazed me when people spend a $50-100 or more in the games, when they can barely have a job and the parents are not rich. Even if you are rich, I don't know how they live with just spending their parents tear, sweat and blood into virtual games where it won't give you any value to your life. I personally don't spent money in this game at all, I only spent $10-20 cash/credit on this game for a year.

Quite a bit of us here work and doesn't spend our parents' money on this game, though.

[Anko]

The way i see it, the more others spend on the game, the less i have to!

As the years went by playing this game the price of this game did not increase but in fact it became free if you can handle non-vip. Even if you feel playing non-vip is not realistic, you still have the option of playing without paying. If you still pay vip like you paid subscription - it got cheaper instead of more expensive and you get more for your buck now. All my other forms of entertainment got way more expensive during the same period. If i took what i spent a month on ro, i don't think i could afford a decent night out.

I seldom feel the need to use wpe for anything other than vip when i feel like i need the benefits. If i needed something like the ygg crown i would do the quest - if i am too lazy to do it then i dun need it that bad, if i have no time to do it then i have more pressing things to do.

Bottom line is: all the stuff in mmos - you don't need it, you just want it.

[Tigra]

These lucky boxes are too expensive for what they give (since buff scroll is basically like 75% drop).

[Rutana]

Icey, try to see it that way:
If you smoke or drink, if you go on partys, etc.
You spend a lot of money for something worthing an evening, or just a moment. And in the first two examples, even hurt your body while doing so.

If you use that money in a virtual game, you usally have something that lasts longer than a night, you spend it in your hobby. There's nothing wrong about it, just because it's virtual.

Save it for later?
What use has the money you save and save, if you're not enjoying your life while saving the money for cases that may never occur? I don't say "go out and waste all your money, don't think on tomorrow", but if you never present something to your self, can you realy enjoy the life you're living? (This goes for all who have enough money to either save or invest in something you like).
Also, many don't wanna have children, don't need a house/allready have one, don't wanna marry...
Everyone has other interests and goals in the own life. They don't all share yours ;3

But in the end, every point of view is fine. As long as you keep realistic, don't spent more than you can afford or overdo it... it's fine.

[Kadnya]

don't you ever think to invest your money on something for example: gold, house, etc? do you ever think that you will need money if you get married and have kids? I don't have kid but i know taking care of kid is very expensive

Some of us do have gold, rare coins and other houses already. Is it oki to start spending a bit on MMOs now? ^^;

[Akin]

money has no value. none of it is real. we don't live on a money system, we live on a debt system. each and every federal reserve note we exchange for goods and services on a daily basis represents an amount of debt. the money is only worth as much as people are willing to give for it. $10 in property of any kind is always more valuable than $10 in cash. take gold for instance, 100 years ago, $20 in gold bought a lot. that same quantity of gold today trades for approximately the same amount and quality of goods, a $20 bill however doesn't. this isn't "inflation", this is the simple matter that paper money has no real value and you can only get what others are willing to give for it.

when governments collapse, paper money cant even buy toilet paper. our money's perceived value rests on the promise of our governments to pay on these debts. saving money is a losing idea, as time goes by it buys less and less since our governments just print more and more to pay for the things it wants. if you keep the mindset that money is for spending, not saving, it's not such a big deal. investing buying things with real value is a smarter idea than letting your money sit in a bank and devalue. land, rare metals, guns and ammunition are all good investments against paper money. it is important to remember though, if you want to keep what you have, you might have to fight for it. through the course of history, it's not hard to see that governments have gone door to door in the past, confiscating all these things for one reason or another, and in those recent cases where paper money is used, it was cheaper to wipe your ass with the bills than buy toilet paper.

spend your money, don't whine about it, just enjoy it while you can.

Smart post. +1

I'm not drinking, I don't go out and party, I'm not obsessed with clothing and shoes, I don't smoke or do any other drugs.
Few years ago, I spent the money I had in Mangas. Today I spend this money in RO.
I don't see a problem with it. I play RO for 7 years now, that's more as most of the other games I have for console or pc gave me. I have fun and it's worth for me.
Still, I now my borders. I don't spent all my money in it, but what I think is a fair amount for me and my income each month.

I'm almost in the same exact boat, except that I was spending money on booze and partying, not mangas (didn't even know what a manga was when I was 21 lol). I easily spent two hundred a week when I was in college (working, but living with my parents) just on hitting the bars night after night from the age of 20-25. I can't tell you how thankful I was (and my liver) when I got bored of that scene and found a game that could hold my attention for only $12 a month (started RO in March 2004 when I was 27). Now, 7 years later and even with the inclusion of lucky boxes and the kafra shop, I have still spent less on RO than on Jack Daniels, and probably will even if iRO stays open till I'm 40. All in all, it has been a very cheap form of entertainment and easy on the pocket book, though I'm sure RO isn't good for my waistline or my vision...

Strip club seems like a better option than 600$ on lucky boxes.

LOL. At least I've made friends on RO. Never met a stripper I wanted to "get to know" outside of the physical meaning.

don't you ever think to invest your money on something for example: gold, house, etc? do you ever think that you will need money if you get married and have kids? I don't have kid but i know taking care of kid is very expensive

It's called a budget my man. If you can plan for the future, reach your goals, and spend a little here and there on yourself for enjoyment, then why not? If I reach certain financial goals 1 or 2 months late because I was enjoying myself, then who cares as long as I can look back on the time fondly? Stressing out 24/7 and never finding time for yourself is a 1 way ticket to stress, a heart attack, depression, etc...

[GuardianTK]

They say being happy and having fun keeps your mind, body, and soul young.

[sukidayo]

its ok to spend money on a game you enjoy. unfortunately, game companies abuse the gamers addiction to the game by implementing a system where you have to spend $$$ to enjoy the game. they never care if you spend too much, or if you are getting your moneys worth. all they care about is you spending your (hard earned) cash. they would even go so far as to not refund you money. iro is a good example of all of this..

Edited by sukidayo, 23 June 2011 - 03:12 AM.

[Wizard]

This is quite tricky imo...

Since not everyone makes the same amount of money or not everyone is on 1XX k per year... so we have different value for money... plus when you enjoy what you do for living... making the money is not an issue... and spending it is something as easy as buying a candy... I personally used to spend around 1k dollars on RO when I was more active and still have more hobbies even more expensive than this...

So yeah... not everyone thinks of money the same way the others do... for good or bad...

[Kadelia]

Hmm, I am single, have low rent ($250), don't buy luxury items like iphones and nintendo 3ds etc., cut corners on my computer which hasn't been upgraded in 3-4 years, don't own a fancy laptop, don't go out that much and shop, so what else am I gonna buy? If you drop $20 at a movie for 2 hours of entertainment and junk food, why is that OK but not $20 for some lucky boxes on RO that might make your partying on the game more fun for a few days?

I spent $150 this event on the boxes, and I often spend more than that on boxes, but it's s small part of my income. I don't make a lot, but I do make about $2300 after taxes monthly and that does leave room for $150 on RO. imo. I don't know if this makes me "bad with money" like some of you implied..

[Wizard]

Hmm, I am single, have low rent ($250), don't buy luxury items like iphones and nintendo 3ds etc., cut corners on my computer which hasn't been upgraded in 3-4 years, don't own a fancy laptop, don't go out that much and shop, so what else am I gonna buy? If you drop $20 at a movie for 2 hours of entertainment and junk food, why is that OK but not $20 for some lucky boxes on RO that might make your partying on the game more fun for a few days?

I spent $150 this event on the boxes, and I often spend more than that on boxes, but it's s small part of my income. I don't make a lot, but I do make about $2300 after taxes monthly and that does leave room for $150 on RO. imo. I don't know if this makes me "bad with money" like some of you implied..

Nahh I don't think so... You just know how to administrate your expenses and leave money for hobbies and fun =)

Edited by Wizard, 23 June 2011 - 09:03 AM.

[sexytime]

Very intersting topic - and of a type that hasn't been so regular since new forums..

Having said that, I think OP conflates several issues here: what proportion of our income (incl. Gov/parental allowances) should be wisely divided between necessities, investment and entertainment; the other issue being what level of consumption on virtual items for the sake of entertainment is reasonable? The answer to the first question is obviously a more socio-economic question that's determined by what we define as living responsibly; the second though is a lot more arbitrary and shouldn't impinge on questions of morality - ie spending parents money/spending within means - as the first question does. So this is really just a reply to the second question: for me, RO is one of the few sources of entertainment outside of work and I spend reasonable amounts of money on it as the game gives me pleasure. In comparison to people who buy sports cars, golf, own stereo systems, or even avid Yankee game attendees, the money I spend is but a tiny fraction of their hobbies. Pleasure imho is entirely a personal experience so the value I attribute to it is also entirely individual-centric and here it just happens to be virtual items as opposed to someone else's pleasure in seeing lebron james play basketball which is also intangible.

On the other hand, I have a friend who makes 200k a year and hasn't spent a single $ on RO because she thinks it's cheating. She supports the game, as do many others, by buying large amounts of kafra items legitmately via venders with zeny. I really think all this boils down to personal preferences instead of an ethical question of morality. Gravity though is saddled with the business ethics issue of making a sustainable business model without exploiting certain gaming addictive behavior and that seems to me is the real brunt of the complaint by OP.

[Kagrra]

I spend money on RO only when I get some of it, like for Christmas or my birthday, since I don't have a job; nor do I spend my parents' money. I work for, or gifted, the money I use. I also have a slight gambling addiction / insane mental state to get items that causes me to spend $50+ on lucky boxes and the such. But that's what I like to do with my money. I buy other stuff too, but I've learned how to portion it out. Like now, I want a new computer, so I'm using a combination of birthday and graduation money to get it, but I know I'd want lucky box items or a VIP subscription or something from the Kafra shop, so I plan accordingly. I want other stuff as well, so I estimate how much I'd get, on a very low minimum amount, and plan for that. Right now, I have enough money to buy my computer and a couple lucky boxes, but fortune gave me a small summer job, so I can get more money to spend on something more 'worthwhile', like new copic markers. Spending money on RO occasionally also keeps me from doing really crazy things out of boredom, because I can't afford to do them. It's all on the perspective of the person using the money. I think spending money on games is all about planning ahead and rationing out funds. Some people can't afford it, while others can, or maybe some people don't even what to; I don't blame them, everyone vends stuff from lucky boxes and the Kafra shop if they can. I'm sure when I move out of my parents' house, hopefully not for too long since I find it a good situation for me to live at home while going to college, since it allows me to have much more money to spend on what I enjoy while I'm still young, I'll spend a lot less money on 'useless' things, like video games and the such.

Er...to make it make more sense, I'm pretty much agreeing with the people who say that it's all about the person who spends the money and their personal situations and how they chose to spend the money if they can afford it.

[DarkDan]

I kind of look at it this way. If I didn't work 40-60 hours a week and could play more often then maybe I would really try harder to play the game strait. Since I work so much I try to maximize my entertainment while im on by spending a little cash on the game. Gravity puts the stuff out there and I just use it to maximize my enjoyment.

On the flip side I do understand how some people dislike the pay to win type stuff. I have only been on a year and I really think Gravity is doing a better job at trying to keep balance really. They have to make money but they really don't want to make money by destroying the game. They don't always make the right choice but nobody is perfect.

If they charged a monthly fee and didn't add pay items to the game there probably would be more balance. People would be forced to play the game more strait. The problem is that the same people that hate when I upgrade my kvm weapons to +9 safely would be terribly oppossed to paying a monthly fee that could support the game.

It could be worse. They could charge a monthly fee and offer pay to win items as well.

[Icey]

This is quite tricky imo...

Since not everyone makes the same amount of money or not everyone is on 1XX k per year... so we have different value for money... plus when you enjoy what you do for living... making the money is not an issue... and spending it is something as easy as buying a candy... I personally used to spend around 1k dollars on RO when I was more active and still have more hobbies even more expensive than this...

So yeah... not everyone thinks of money the same way the others do... for good or bad...

This is the problem, I don't think anyone in RO make 1xxk/year. If there are maybe it will be only 0.001% of the "real player" population in RO. I don't know if any of you make up to $60-1xxk a year. I doubt those kind of people really spend money on here.

[Mwrip]

You can argue that going to a movie or a concert isn't "getting you anything" either, as you don't walk out with any tangible good. It's not quite the same of course, since you're paying for the experience in those cases, but the point is that pretty much any form of entertainment spending is going to seem pointless to some people.

The key is intelligent budgeting. People with larger disposable incomes can of course afford to spend more on entertainment, while if you're struggling to pay the rent, your entertainment budget needs to be damn close to 0. A good number of people play this in their 30s, however, so even in this economy, there's a good number of people with plenty of extra money to spend on hobbies, including gaming.

Personally, I'm not a big spender, but I do spend a significant amount. It was generally around $25/month, which really isn't that much when you consider that a p2p MMO costs that in game+expansions+subscription. I spend less post-Renewal though, as I don't play nearly as much as I used to.

The way I see it is this: As long as the company isn't trying to gouge you with their cash shop (and for the most part, I think Gravity's done a good job of avoiding this), you like the game, and you do have money to spare, why not support the game? The game's ability to stay in business, and hopefully expand, is based purely on how many people are willing to support the company.

[Wiggles]

You can argue that going to a movie or a concert isn't "getting you anything" either, as you don't walk out with any tangible good.

I don't think the arguement is about paying money and not getting anything.



Its about, wanting entertainment so you start playing a game.
Then the game takes away all the things that were entertaining, and asks you to pay money to continue, or be forced to play a very bland game.

Its like going to a free movie screening, and half way through they turn the sound off.. and say, hey guys, its gonna be $5 each to get the sound back.
Then you pay the $5. And a bit later, they turn the sound off again. Sorry guys, another $5.
When after all this, you could have just paid $7 to watch the movie outright.

Do you get where im coming from?
Why spend $100 a month on RO on items that will be superseded next week.. forcing you to spend money again.
When you can get 10 or more games on Steam at that price, and be satisfied with them for a good few months.

Edited by Wiggles, 23 June 2011 - 05:02 PM.

[Cargona]

It's all about your priorities, and whats important to you.

[Akin]

I don't think the arguement is about paying money and not getting anything.



Its about, wanting entertainment so you start playing a game.
Then the game takes away all the things that were entertaining, and asks you to pay money to continue, or be forced to play a very bland game.

Its like going to a free movie screening, and half way through they turn the sound off.. and say, hey guys, its gonna be $5 each to get the sound back.
Then you pay the $5. And a bit later, they turn the sound off again. Sorry guys, another $5.
When after all this, you could have just paid $7 to watch the movie outright.

Do you get where im coming from?
Why spend $100 a month on RO on items that will be superseded next week.. forcing you to spend money again.
When you can get 10 or more games on Steam at that price, and be satisfied with them for a good few months.

I don't think RO is quite there yet, but I do see a steady trend in that direction. Right now, the VIP membership covers most of the things and more that we had before when we were paying $10 and $12 per month for subscriptions so I don't feel jaded quite yet. The part I don't like is that there really is no logical sense in not using kafra points to upgrade gear, and thus, the inclusion of +7 headgear to take full advantage of certain events.

Once they start doing things like that with basic functionality of the game is when I'd walk away.

[Lessien]

For me MMOs are my entertainment. I don't restore cars, I don't do a lot of Trips or buying all the latest "things". So my extra goes into things I enjoy which is playing my games. At some point the presence of people on the web through social sites, games and jsut everything is going to be more than 50% of your time, wouldn't you rather invest in something you spend so much time and effort with? I know it seems weird as they are just binary bits of data but at some point conceptually they are as real as a painting on a wall.

That odd view is something that I've been coming to terms with over the past few years, as very interesting spending habits emerge for things like iTunes or MMOs or DLC for console games, its all real, its just you need to use your computer to get access to it.

The problems I see with dishing out so much money to ANY game not just RO is the terms of use and other blah blah crap. Every time you spend real money for something in a game you still have to hit that "Agree" button stating that you accept that all property physical or digital remains the game Providers. So if a game shuts down, bans you, removes your items, changes the item's effects, or anything at all really. You have no say in the matter even though it was your money that paid for it. And don't even think about asking for a refund. So if you are paying for items you really can't consider it an investment since you can lose it without your consent. Yes you may get a little bit more fun for a while or have some new "cute headgear" which may become obsolete in 1-2 months. But that is not an investment. Buying something that you get to keep no matter what is an investment. Such as your example of iTunes you buy a song and it's a copy for YOU.

All of this may be real no matter if it is digital or physical. But only what is truly yours is an investment.

[Icey]

when you search in ragial for "he battle manual" you will see people selling 100+ he bm and when you see the history and you count the number of he bm ro sells in a month. That's a lot of money, i mean a lottttttt. I have no idea how those people can just buy that many >_<. It scares me for real.