52 replies to this topic

[Lybis]

If I saw this in the patch notes I would be over the moon! The suggestions you have done phish is definitely what we need to see!

[Phish]

ye give scouts def down!

I like the sneaky bump. Added 20% defense down to debilitating shot as alot of scouts ask for this. Since the cooldown is long on it, (60 seconds) they can't always rely on it, but it can give them some needed damage output against a stronger enemy.


And I appreciate the positive feedback guys, but yeah Kaizy you are probably right.

[Lybis]

Why hasn't this made the patch yet!

[Phish]

Because class and skill balancing is never a priority no matter how many years go by, and threads people make desiring it!!

[Kaizy]

Item mall is the only priority.

Except when a new patch is making everyone quit.

[Phish]

It's ironic though. When people have more options to choose from after a balancing update, they will be inclined to try different builds, and guess what; that promotes skill reset sales.

Take an underpowered class like battle clerics or an uncommonly played class like dual raiders. If these classes are more appealing to play people will want to refine gear for them, and there you go, it promotes plutorune and venarune sales.

[Kaizy]

It's ironic though. When people have more options to choose from after a balancing update, they will be inclined to try different builds, and guess what; that promotes skill reset sales.

Take an underpowered class like battle clerics or an uncommonly played class like dual raiders. If these classes are more appealing to play people will want to refine gear for them, and there you go, it promotes plutorune and venarune sales.

But that actually requires foresight...

[Lybis]

I don't think people are all there in the head at gravity tbh. Things they can do to make players happy which would even increase the item mall sales... they do the complete opposite!

[Xenania]

To be honest, I say get rid of concussion explosives. I think only Launcher Bourgs should get an AoE Stun. AoE Sleep is fine since you can recover right after a hit.

Replace Concussion Explosives with a 3 second Mute Bomb. This allows them to use Concussion grenades for a stun and a "Mute" bomb to mute, almost disabling an opponent.

Swap Freezing Bullet from Artis with Summonable Land mines from Bourgs, the Freezing Bullet is better for a gunbourg and craftable Land Mines for Artis. Common they're artisans, they should be making stuff and planting bombs in the back, not charging head first in the front. GunBourgs should be the bullet users.

This will even out the stun/mute ratio between the two classes. Artisians will have a 2 second stun and 3 second mute(and 5 sec AoE Sleep). GunBourgs will have a 3 second stun(Zulie Stun + Grenade) and 2 second mute(Freezing Bullet).

+1
Really sad to see a Gun Bourg that supposed to be pvp'er become so weak atm..And an artisan who supposed to be a crafter became so OP.

[Lybis]

Be nice for Zepp to comment on this and see what he thinks or if he has took it to dev's to get there feedback and see what they have to say or what there going to do about it.........

I can dream.

Edited by Lybis, 05 August 2011 - 12:18 PM.

[Zandorf]

Give more AoE and stun skill to knight, the champ is quite overpowered in skills compared to knights, do it like iRose, knight with lightning crasher and 3 AoEs at least.

[Phish]

Then that makes knights the new champs. They really don't need more stuns at all, and making the game a stun fest isn't fun for anyone.

[AlisiaMT]

**New Skill**
Landmine: (summon)
40 summon gauge
Description: Tactically plant a mine on the battlefield that will explode when an unwary foe comes near.
Reliable Weapon Attack
Max level: 5
Skill Power: 300 at level 1, increased by 220 per level maxing at 1180 power at level 5.
Range: 10m aoe radius,
Status effect: 10% movement speed down at level 1, increased by 8% per level resulting in 42% mspeed down at level 5.
Duration: 10 seconds
Cooldown: 60 seconds
Success rate: 100%
MP use: 400
Prerequisite: Top Gunner level 18, Mercenary Employment level 1

In order for the landmine to detonate, an enemy (be it player or monster) must step with 10m radius of it. On impact it will explode causing aoe damage and movement speed down. Once the landmine is removed (be it the player dieing, leaving the map or it exploding) they will be able to plant another one.
The landmines will detonate with damage based off the castors stats when they set it. Also, they will appear invisible on enemies screens, however decloaking within range will reveal the landmine, but not detonate it.

[/spoiler]
 

#1 love it. I was actually going to put something almost identicle to this in my 3rd job thread and was thinking about it right before i read it. Great minds think alike eh?


Since my main character is a FS cleric I will only comment on some things that I noticed with what you did for the cleric skill trees (which honestly anyone paying attention could point out) My comments will be bolded in your quote.

Muse

Support

 

Spoiler

Quick note for the cleric tree: It is apparent that this skill tree is rather... Limited and extremely linear on the offensive side. My suggestions are not to make cleric's epic fighters but have some more versatility than they do now. In doing so the tree would need to be changed, I'm giving my best attempt to clean up the clutter and this is what I have so far:

Visual image of the revamped support tree:

Mana Drop:
Decrease Skill points from 9 to 5.



Wand Control:
Decrease Skill points from 18 to 5.
Remove MP recovery passive.
Remove Voltage Shock pre requisite

The passives and offensive skills should not all be in one linear path.

^^^^^ Wand control's only prerequisite is Wand Mastery.





Improved Wand Mastery:
Remove Magic Tool Block rate passive
Change pre requisite from Mystic Shielding level 1 to Wand Control level 1.

Mystic Shielding:
Remove Wand control and Voltage Shock pre requisite.

Likewise, the defensive passives shouldn't be tied in with offensive skills.

Cleric

 

Spoiler

Visual image of the revamped Cleric tree:

Mana Wave:
Increase skill power per level from 22 to 50, resulting in 1005 skill power at level 9.
Change pre requisite from Mana drop level 9 to Mana drop level 5. (since that is the max level of Mana drop now)

The skill has no status effect and has subpar skill power as well. Every class that has a powerful skill with no status have much higher skill power.

**New Skill**
Aura Pulse: (active skill)
Description: Unleash a magical wave of aura and astonish the opponent.
Reliable Magic Attack
Max level: 5
Skill Power: 600 at level 1, increased by 70 per level maxing at 780 power at level 5.
Range: active weapon range, single target
Status effect: 7% of magic defense down 4% attack speed down, increased by 2% magic defense down 2% attack speed per level. Maxing at 15% magic defense down and 10% attack speed down at level 5.
Duration: 10 seconds
Cooldown: 10 seconds
Success rate: 100%
MP use: 210
Prerequisite: Voltage Shock level 1

Clerics are the only class without a debuff (status down) skill. If they choose to go for an offensive build they should have access to atleast one debuff. T

Wand Focusing:
Decrease Skill points from 18 to 9.
Remove MP recovery rate passive.


Wand Combat Mastery:
Add 10% attack speed passive at max level.
Remove magic tool block rate passive
Change prerequisite from Mystic armor to Wand focusing level 9.

Even though the offensive passives were lowered in skill points, they still take a fair amount of points to max. It would not be harmful to slightly increase the gain from this (with 10% attack speed on the final offensive passive in the tree).

Mystic Armor:
Remove Voltage Storm prerequisite.

**New Skill**
Unconscious Vision: (decloak)
Description: Perceive enemies that normally could not be seen but...
Max level: 4
Range: 18m range at level 1, increased by 2m per level maxing at 24m range.
Status effect: decloaks hidden enemies..
Cooldown: 25 seconds at level 1, decreases by 2 seconds per level maxing at 19 seconds. Shares a Cooldown with heavenly Grace and Integrity. User gets self inflicted with a 4 second sleep status.
Success rate: 100%
MP use: 100
Prerequisite: Magic Battle Mastery level 18, Wand Focusing level 9

Many of the few battle cleric's long for a decloak skill. Of course, it should not be as useful as other classes decloaks, likewise it support clerics should not easily have access to it. To address this, this decloak has a much longer cooldown than the rest, shares a cooldown with Heavenly Grace and Integrity (to deter support clerics from using it), and to top it off, the Cleric becomes so tired after revealing the target, they fall asleep.

^^^^^I don't see the point in having a decloak skill if you're going to die before you wake up anyways. As a cleric (even for my newb battle cleric) I would not learn this skill. What's the point in seeing someone if you are going to just fall asleep. It feels like it would be defeating the purpose.





**New Skill**
Magic Tool Mastery: (passive)
Description: Hone your ability to wield a magic offhand.
Max level: 9
30% magic tool block rate at level 1, increasing by 15% per level maxing at 150% block rate at level 9.
Prerequisite: Mystic Shielding level 9, Magic Battle Mastery level 18.

The block rate passives were removed from the offensive passives: to allow more freedom.

^^^^^I'm not sure your intentions for who this particular passive belongs to but as a fs cleric, my build would not permit me to learn this skill even if it were seperate from the offensive attacks/passives. Having it this way would only benefit the FS clerics that got IM buffs and reskilled (and even if that were the case they could get the passive anyways if they reset their skills). As far as battle clerics go, you just moved it to a new location.






**New Skill**
Miracle: (support skill)
Description: Call forth a blessing from the heavens that will grace your party.
Max level: 5
Range: 20m aoe radius party allies
Status effect: Purify, heal. HP healed is determined by the casters int. 1 int = 2 hp healed, + 500 base hp. (With 900 int it would heal 2300 hp)
Duration: ~
Cooldown: 60 seconds
Success rate: 40% at level 1, increasing by 15% per level resulting in 100% success at level 5.
MP use: 600
Prerequisite: Heavenly Grace level 9, Integrity level 5

Clerics' powerful skill. It serves the purpose of a supporter rather than a fighter.

Mana Flame:
Increase HP by 300% at max level.
Decrease cooldown from 30 seconds to 15 seconds

Salamander Flame:
Increase HP by 300% at max level.
Decrease cooldown from 30 seconds to 15 seconds

These flame summons die far too easy considering the long cooldown between summoning them. (1-2 hits from a monster and they are gone.)

Elemental:
Increase Defense at max level.

Firegon:
Increase defense at max level.

Likewise, these fighting summons are incredibly frail and could use a boost in survivability.

Chant Focusing:
Increase MP recovery rate per level from 10 to 25.

This is partially due to the mp recovery rate passives being removed from the offensive passives.

Other than that your skills look great. I wouldn't mind playing any of the classes (and i know xbow knights would be happy) if the skills were updated to what you suggested.


I want to get this noticed by the devs so I will be placing it in my signature until a Gravity Employee comments on it. I encourage others to do the same

[Phish]

*Wand control was an overlook, corrected it.

*For the decloak, the sleep is excessive, (even though you'd wake up should you get hit, so you wouldn't actually die if you decloak). The point was to make it detrimental for a support cleric to get it.



EDIT: removed the sleep status from unconscious vision.

Edited by Phish, 10 August 2011 - 02:48 PM.

[Lucis]

--I love these suggestions, and I vote Phish for Senator!

[Bendersmom]

Great post Adam. With the suggestions and tweaks by others that posted here the developers should be happy that you made their job easier. I think they said somewhere that they are working on balancing again. If they take away Buff sets, as they said they would, it would be nice to see additional ways to make characters different. Your changes/additions would make people have to get the skills that fit their game play better. Between new/adjusted skills and the different gear in game people would be different based on how they play. Also, any way to make more characters different (full support cleric, battle cleric, hybrid of the two, etc) would be a bonus.

[Lybis]

Might actually see this happen when Phish gets made senate Can't wait!

[SageOfSilence]

Mage: Open Portals/Rifts to different maps and the mages party can use those portals they can make them anywhere and they select which map to go to as a pop up when they click the skill. But the mages have to be on that planet to go to that map

[Okibi]

Quick Tweak/Suggestions/questions about your proposals:

Landmine: Most summons (such as campfires) die when the caster gets out of range, would these be static where the artisan can run like crazy away from a person attacking them or do they have to stay in place as bait?

[Farq]

Looks good: balanced skills, and more interesting, too.

I would like to see a more open format for selecting skills, such as less prerequisites, to make it easier to customize your characters and explore different builds. When I play with my raider, I feel straight-jacketed by the skill tree. Even if the weapon requirements are removed, you have to put points into dual weapon mastery (which I'd never use) to learn mirror phantasm. And a dual sword wielder has to put points into katar mastery (which he or she would not use) to learn camoflauge.

[ScarletDragon]

i like ur idea but i think u should help a bit the dual raider class and... dont u think it could be a good idea that each weapon class has a special finisher skill but one that has a big cooldown so it cant be used repeatedly and it can be unique, i think this would be more fun

[Phish]

Thanks. Well as I have it each class has one but it isn't weapon specific. The Lethal Blow skill could be used both with katars and duals.

[ScarletDragon]

Thanks. Well as I have it each class has one but it isn't weapon specific. The Lethal Blow skill could be used both with katars and duals.

but with a big cooldown? so it can make it special and unique or maybe tey could be a rare drop unique book

[KingsBane]

One year later they are about to destroy int for clerics its only taken then 7 years to discover charm I want to go back in time it just gets worse the longer you play

[PigGoesQuack]

I'm going to comment on this just because Adam deserves it for the hard work, and because he is the hero of time, and his voice will save us all....


-Link scream-