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Guardian Items vs New Im gear.


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#1 MicoJive

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 04:28 PM

It will seem like whining but i think it is a real problem. Comparing the old Guardian Im sets to what we can get now is kind of ridiculous. Peoplecan stack the old im sets to extremely high aim/eva with just that set, while we can get maybe 1/5th of that. Not even including the ways to get the set, while we need to spend thousands and thousands of IM to MAYBE get a chance at a piece when before you could buy a card and auto have one.

Im not sure how to fix it, because nerfing the old set would enrage old time players, and im not sure how feasible it is to re-release the items on a same, purchase the game card, get the set, way. After seeing them have the old kimarts as a reward, it should seem they would be able to release it again without any problems, but I obviously do not know for sure.
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#2 GrapefruitGod

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 04:30 PM

it's simple really, just make all cash outfits level 20

though guardian will still better on certain pieces, it allows all cash gear to get level 20 soulcraft bonuses
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#3 StormHaven

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 04:33 PM

It will seem like whining but i think it is a real problem. Comparing the old Guardian Im sets to what we can get now is kind of ridiculous. Peoplecan stack the old im sets to extremely high aim/eva with just that set, while we can get maybe 1/5th of that. Not even including the ways to get the set, while we need to spend thousands and thousands of IM to MAYBE get a chance at a piece when before you could buy a card and auto have one.

Im not sure how to fix it, because nerfing the old set would enrage old time players, and im not sure how feasible it is to re-release the items on a same, purchase the game card, get the set, way. After seeing them have the old kimarts as a reward, it should seem they would be able to release it again without any problems, but I obviously do not know for sure.


problem is they can't. Guardian items were THQ-ice's idea and design and their property. which is my the sets aren't called vries and immolian anymore.
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#4 Bicho

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 04:34 PM

FG and WG must not be soultransferer...
And IM sets like angel and paris must be soultransferer and upgraded to lvl 20... Then they can compared with FG and WG
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#5 StormHaven

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 04:45 PM

FG and WG must not be soultransferer...
And IM sets like angel and paris must be soultransferer and upgraded to lvl 20... Then they can compared with FG and WG


no they still wouldn't. what makes FG and WG slightly imbalanced are the stats each piece gives. for new IM to be comparably they would need to be completely changed.
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#6 Bicho

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 04:59 PM

may be... But they will competitive
at least u can soultransfer stats from any item lvl 20-30...
and if u CANT trade the same stats to FG or WG this will be more fair i think
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#7 StormHaven

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 05:01 PM

may be... But they will competitive
at least u can soultransfer stats from any item lvl 20-30...
and if u CANT trade the same stats to FG or WG this will be more fair i think

you're not even supposed to be able to transfer or amp IM items at all.

Edited by StormHaven, 11 August 2011 - 05:03 PM.

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#8 Endbringer

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 05:10 PM

Chances are amping will become PvE affected only, like on IAH. And personally, i just feel they should make water/fire guardian sets level 1(lowering the existing stats to their max alloted levels) and keep their bonus stats.
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#9 Astronix

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 05:15 PM

Chances are amping will become PvE affected only, like on IAH. And personally, i just feel they should make water/fire guardian sets level 1(lowering the existing stats to their max alloted levels) and keep their bonus stats.

that will be bad for those who wasted a lot in getting aim and evade on their parts, like me XD
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#10 MicoJive

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 05:20 PM

things like the wings or gloves that give +10 evade or aim straight up, let alone the +10 health / agi items.
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#11 Kazu731

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 05:58 PM

Fire Guardian and Water Guardian sets are not unique to THQ*ICE's design. They have existed in other forms. They are not as exaggeratingly overpowered as many people like to claim. Their bonuses are a helpful tad at best and the only way they can become a problem is through means such as bigpig having 50 agi on each piece. But this would speak to all IM sets, then.

The FG and WG sets are really only a tad better than sets like Devil, Angel, and Snow King/Queen. They have added bonuses that are well deserved as they were once something someone paid for specifically. To revoke these sets would be as cruel as removing someone's enchantments or soulcraft options from a Zauharant or an entire IM set.

The fact is that most people who find complaints towards these sets are those who do not have them when in reality they are no more game breaking than any other item. They offer miniscule stats that are only an aid to a degree. In fact we should consider the market in a good condition that there are still, after all this time, so many pieces available for sell amongst players (Compare: Kimart Wings that were obtained through less than respectful means and are indeed a significant advantage in terms of the sheer amount of agility it offers). These pieces are obtainable to a degree and I am going to say that if you can afford it you deserve it.

I'm going to just safehouse myself from any personal scrutiny as I only own one Fire Guardian piece so I am not someone trying to defend something I own. I am more partial to the newer set options like Snow King and Japanese Suit. And on that note I'd like to add that to downgrade FG and WG sets to these stats would again be as ruinous as taking away something that was given for a long time. There are more important, actual problems with balances that are in play and Fire Guardian and Water Guardian are far from top of the list.

EDIT: I'd also like to add in that if you find that "FG and WG are only a tad better than newer sets" and "Downgrading them is unfair" is a paradox, I want to bring the point again that these sets are deserved and they exist as they are. An entirety of a set should not be revamped because of a small majority.

Edited by Kazu731, 11 August 2011 - 06:00 PM.

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#12 MicoJive

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 07:26 PM

idk what set you have been looking at but they are FAR better then the current im items.

common fg/wg combo:
health 50
agi 52
int 13
pdd 9%
mdd 10%
aim +15
agi 14%
missing 1 piece

current:
aim 9%
6% eva
ms 10%
max hp 10%
asp 10%
max mp 10%
+20 stats


how is that even close?
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#13 StormHaven

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 07:46 PM

The guardian sets don't help as much as people think they do. I still beat people whether i have guardian on or my Snow King on,

Edited by StormHaven, 11 August 2011 - 07:48 PM.

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#14 SteezeMaista

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:05 PM

The guardian sets don't help as much as people think they do. I still beat people whether i have guardian on or my Snow King on,


They make the good people, a little too over the top, and now without being able to buy IM in game, it makes them incredibly more difficult to people who can't afford ins or randoms.
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#15 StormHaven

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:36 PM

They make the good people, a little too over the top, and now without being able to buy IM in game, it makes them incredibly more difficult to people who can't afford ins or randoms.


there you go! see you understand guardian is just the cherry on top of the sundae
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#16 Bhreemon

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:55 PM

another way to look at this...we paid cash for those sets. even if it was only the $10 drag gift card we paid for it. the guardian set were total vanity in THQ though, they looked shiny and that was about it. once we got transitioned to WP, the guardian set became stated and sought after.

Sad truth of the matter is if you were around from the get go, then you earned all of the old gear that is no longer available aka hookah hats and the guardian sets.

Nerfing the sets would in fact be obscenely unfair for the ppl that have them. If WP wants to release a comparable set, then maybe that's what you should be asking for rather than a nerf...
look at the old BM rings, they are practically useless now. i honestly hope that's not what you're asking for...cuz that be right out...

i agree 100% with prin. if you can't afford the goodies, go out and grind gold like we had to.
go earn your gear.


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#17 Maronu

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 09:33 PM

Old items that can only be obtained from other players should not stand alone as the best equip of their type in the game. I think guardian sets should be downgraded to have the same stats as the other special equips or the other cash sets should be buffed and made tradeable. We got the guardian set as a bonus when we bought a gamecard from THQ. It didn't have uber stats on it before. What is the problem with making the stats equal to the special cash equips if they still tie for best in the game?

I go from 91 to 171 evade on a level 50 character by equipping an artifact guardian set that hasn't been downsihifited, doesn't have max options, and is only expanded by x1.3. But that's just a minuscule little cherry on top isn't it?
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#18 StormHaven

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 09:36 PM

Old items that can only be obtained from other players should not stand alone as the best equip of their type in the game. I think guardian sets should be downgraded to have the same stats as the other special equips or the other cash sets should be buffed and made tradeable. We got the guardian set as a bonus when we bought a gamecard from THQ. It didn't have uber stats on it before. What is the problem with making the stats equal to the special cash equips if they still tie for best in the game?

I go from 91 to 171 evade on a level 50 character by equipping an artifact guardian set that hasn't been downsihifited, doesn't have max options, and is only expanded by x1.3. But that's just a minuscule little cherry on top isn't it?


ok let me fix that. the higher the lvl you are the less noticeable the bonuses are.
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#19 Maronu

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 10:05 PM

Evade goes up more if you put it on a higher lvl character. I get over 100 extra from the same set on a 75. Maybe that isn't as bad as 80 on a lvl 50, but set still seems OP.

Edited by Maronu, 11 August 2011 - 10:07 PM.

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#20 Bhreemon

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 10:36 PM

why does everything have to be downgraded to be made fair? is WP not capable of releasing a similar set or what?
contrary to popular belief...downgrades and nerfs are NOT the answer to everything >>


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#21 Yurai

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 06:21 AM

I wouldn't mind if all cash items were changed to level 1, including the level 20 weapons. I'd expect all the stats to default to max, however.

Edited by Yurai, 12 August 2011 - 06:21 AM.

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#22 Miname

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 04:49 AM

Guardian set balancing is most affected at earlier levels, not so much near end game with the exception of the combination of amplification of stats and % set bonus buffs (Stacking high AGI and the AGI % set bonus) but that issue is being addressed as Endy has pointed out.

Redacting of established items is, in my opinion, not the route WarpPortal should continue to follow.

What does everyone think about WarpPortal re-releasing the items as cash card or energy transfer bonuses? Perhaps for $50 and up cards this time around.

Edited by Miname, 13 August 2011 - 04:57 AM.

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#23 MicoJive

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 07:17 AM

What does everyone think about WarpPortal re-releasing the items as cash card or energy transfer bonuses? Perhaps for $50 and up cards this time around.


That would be the most..."fair" (for lack of a better word) solution to the im problem. I can see how wp might not like it seeing as they would be giving away a full set for, say, 50 dollars instead of people spending thousands of im on gada to maybe get pieces.
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#24 StormHaven

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 07:21 AM

What does everyone think about WarpPortal re-releasing the items as cash card or energy transfer bonuses? Perhaps for $50 and up cards this time around.


NEW EVENT: For every 5000+we you transfer you enter a raffle for a chance to win a fire or guardian set. etc etc etc
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#25 Himeyasha

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 08:08 AM

I really want them because they aren't soulbound.

I really hate how most of the items that I want are 5k-10k+ and Heirloom. It is extremely disgruntling and I probably wouldn't have bothered with this game if I didn't have a lot of IM points from Ragnarok to begin with. The fact that so many items on this server are impossible to get in-game is annoying.

Current stuff should be on par with Heirloom stuff and if Heirloom stuff is OP, that stuff should be nerfed to current stuff. For Water/Fire that would mean making them Soulbound, lv1, and the same stats as Angel/Devil/Lucifer Set.

Pretty sure that would piss off a bunch of people tho so not happening.

Edited by Himeyasha, 13 August 2011 - 08:10 AM.

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