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#26 Jumpluffspore

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 01:26 PM

Qq I can't win pvp when any class that's melee range will lose 2% of their mp per second and I have a fat wall that follows me around and stuns long enough for me to catch with stun wave, which will hold them long enough for rolling stone, at which point I can dragon thorn them to death, mega inferno, or smare shot them to death.

Fixed. And like nilla said, there will always be someone who will shine with a class. Or at least almost always.
Perhaps that was a tad satirical. Ohwell. Frankly, I found summoner 1v1 ridiculously easy.

Edited by Jumpluffspore, 18 September 2011 - 01:27 PM.

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#27 Jiroxys

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 06:38 AM

There seems to be an issue where at some point, Spell Trap will completely fail to work. It will cast as normal, but stall out for a moment, and it will all in all have no effect. This seems to be unrelated to the monster issues previously mentioned as the monsters in question still got hit from the rest of my attacks. I have a hunch though that it has something to do with laying down a lot of Spike Traps in the area over time. I assume this as it only tends to happen when I'm camping out killing monsters in a single area over a long period of time.

Secondly, I don't know if this is intended or not, but for a few of the spells, the cooldown will be triggered if you get hit after it's done casting, interrupting your attack, but before you actually use it. For example with Spell trap, I can finish casting it, and there seems to be a delay where my character goes through an animation before laying down the Spell Trap. Now, the problem is that my cooldown triggers at this point, yet the animation along with the remainder of the move can still be interrupted with an attack before it's laid down.
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#28 Tundra

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 11:08 AM

The Shaman's seem fine damage wise, but their summons are rather pathetic AI wise. They should focus on one enemy at a time and not stop until the enemy is dead. When I was attempting to solo Farrel earlier, they kept attracting every other mob as apposed to staving off Farrel for me. This is not the first time they did this, as they do this in every boss battle. The summons are also weak... So they're just a pain in the ass most of the time. Though their weakness allows AFK-leveling to not be efficient, so that's a fair trade off, I suppose.

Next up is the Shaman speed, some spells should cast faster. After all, BattleMages have MANY instant skills which are also very fast(with longish animations) - sans 1 or 2. The Shaman's instant skills take .5-1.5 seconds to set up, and if they're projectiles, they travel ridiculously slow. Animations tend to be pretty slow too, so there's a cast time AND a slow animation, making the whole ordeal of casting spells seem annoying. The only reliable one that doesn't slow me down is Dragon Tooth - which is sad. I understand they're supposed to be slow, but this seems TOO slow for a game that's fast paced. All cast times should be cut by 25-50%. Especially ones like Spell Trap(by 30-50%), which lacks safe-range and can be canceled when you're hit.

It's also been mentioned, but skills like Inferno eat up too much mana AND takes too long to cast. If the range was longer, it would be better. However, the range is so pathetic/setup time is so long that a monster usually hits me before I can spit out the first wave of Inferno. EVEN if my summons are "tanking" for me. It should have a seriously-instant cast or have a longer range.

The one thing I gotta say - is again - damage wise Shamans are pretty okay. They function much like slower/slightly weaker BattleMages, which is exactly where they should be in terms of power.
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#29 Rimmy

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 11:24 AM

Like invokers, it seems to me they're meant to play support roles for the most part. You may not be able to initiate a combo very well, but once someone else has done so, you have all kinds of useful skills at your disposal to add damage/debuffs.

Speaking of debuffs... After seeing the MP drain skill in PvP last night, all I have to say is that may be the single most OP skill in the game. They literally stand in the general vicinity of any opponent and drain about 10% of their MP every second (I'm assuming the skill was probably max level). In one round, I watched an entire enemy team rendered completely helpless and without MP less than a minute into the battle. That's one heck of a support skill.

Oh, and the MP drain should probably also solve the shaman's 1v1 issues against melee classes, IMO, as it seems to keep working even while they're being juggled in a combo -- which means that with decent health and enchanted armor, I'm thinking a shaman could probably survive long enough to outlast the opponent's MP. It seems to me like you're going to need to be a ranged class (archer, mage, fighter) to be able to hurt them while avoiding the burn.

Edited by Rimmy, 04 October 2011 - 11:25 AM.

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#30 StormHaven

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 11:43 AM

Like invokers, it seems to me they're meant to play support roles for the most part. You may not be able to initiate a combo very well, but once someone else has done so, you have all kinds of useful skills at your disposal to add damage/debuffs.

Speaking of debuffs... After seeing the MP drain skill in PvP last night, all I have to say is that may be the single most OP skill in the game. They literally stand in the general vicinity of any opponent and drain about 10% of their MP every second (I'm assuming the skill was probably max level). In one round, I watched an entire enemy team rendered completely helpless and without MP less than a minute into the battle. That's one heck of a support skill.

Oh, and the MP drain should probably also solve the shaman's 1v1 issues against melee classes, IMO, as it seems to keep working even while they're being juggled in a combo -- which means that with decent health and enchanted armor, I'm thinking a shaman could probably survive long enough to outlast the opponent's MP. It seems to me like you're going to need to be a ranged class (archer, mage, fighter) to be able to hurt them while avoiding the burn.


Speaking of the MP burn the buff on it gives back a % of mp drained from the opponentPosted Image Great things come to those who have the patients to level one!
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#31 Mvffin

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 02:37 PM

I agree the MP burn is OP, but it really seems like the only tool we have in PVP. No catches, no block, no real combos. The only skills worth using have 1.5+ cast time, and by then you're already hit, or the opponent is out of range.

I think they should nerf the MP burn, but they need to give us AT LEAST a Rocket Punch type of stun move, SOMETHING to catch with.
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#32 Jumpluffspore

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 03:50 PM

I agree the MP burn is OP, but it really seems like the only tool we have in PVP. No catches, no block, no real combos. The only skills worth using have 1.5+ cast time, and by then you're already hit, or the opponent is out of range.

I think they should nerf the MP burn, but they need to give us AT LEAST a Rocket Punch type of stun move, SOMETHING to catch with.

Something with ministuns like cossack perhaps? Something that acts like rp would be a tad op'd. Rp->gate->rollingstone->smareshot/dragontooth inbetween-> bumbling golgon does blahhhh.
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#33 GrapefruitGod

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 04:09 PM

That burn is indeed OP. I kept as much distance as I could and the two times I happened to run through it, I ended up with 8k mp left.
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#34 StormHaven

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 04:47 PM

Something with ministuns like cossack perhaps? Something that acts like rp would be a tad op'd. Rp->gate->rollingstone->smareshot/dragontooth inbetween-> bumbling golgon does blahhhh.


they have one but it's like a 1.5 second cast or something..
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#35 Jumpluffspore

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 04:55 PM

they have one but it's like a 1.5 second cast or something..

Referring to Rolling Stone or whatever? I think that's a solid stun.
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#36 StormHaven

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 05:00 PM

Referring to Rolling Stone or whatever? I think that's a solid stun.

the description says it finches on hit(iirc) . so it's more like the other skill than an actually stun.
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#37 Mvffin

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 05:42 PM

Rolling Stone does knockdown/knockback/stun. You can't use smare or dragon tooth in between the hits. Spell Trap only restricts movement, you can still perform attacks while in Spell Trap. Also, high movespeed can let you walk in it as well.


Something with ministuns like cossack perhaps? Something that acts like rp would be a tad op'd. Rp->gate->rollingstone->smareshot/dragontooth inbetween-> bumbling golgon does blahhhh.


If by gate you mean Spell Trap, it's not a real stun, just movement restriction. If by gate you mean Spike Wave, or MegaSW, they have 2 second cast times, and they only inflict slow. You wouldn't be able to get the Rolling Stone afterward.

The worst it would be is RP->Rolling Stone->Air Smash->Dragon Tooth->Possibly Spell Trap and another Air Smash. But Air Smash leaves you so vulnerable, it's not even funny.

Edited by Mvffin, 04 October 2011 - 05:53 PM.

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#38 Jumpluffspore

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 07:36 PM

Rolling Stone does knockdown/knockback/stun. You can't use smare or dragon tooth in between the hits. Spell Trap only restricts movement, you can still perform attacks while in Spell Trap. Also, high movespeed can let you walk in it as well.




If by gate you mean Spell Trap, it's not a real stun, just movement restriction. If by gate you mean Spike Wave, or MegaSW, they have 2 second cast times, and they only inflict slow. You wouldn't be able to get the Rolling Stone afterward.

The worst it would be is RP->Rolling Stone->Air Smash->Dragon Tooth->Possibly Spell Trap and another Air Smash. But Air Smash leaves you so vulnerable, it's not even funny.

Well problem with that is, you'd be in reach of the mp burn effect during that entire time. In order for them to fairly bless the summoner class with a stun-- that skill would have to be nerfed.
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#39 Mvffin

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 07:50 PM

Well problem with that is, you'd be in reach of the mp burn effect during that entire time. In order for them to fairly bless the summoner class with a stun-- that skill would have to be nerfed.


That's what I said originally. I agree that the MP burn works too fast, but right now, we're a one trick pony. They need to reduce the burn by like half, but we also need something to do besides "get close and don't die."

I say, they increase the range by about 20%, and decrease the burn by like 50%.
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#40 Mvffin

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 02:04 AM

On another unrelated matter, I think Blesser needs to learn how to follow me better, or have it's buff range increased. It doesn't attack enemies, so it has no excuse to lag behind when I'm WALKING SLOWLY. The buffs are nice, useful but not OP, but you have to be very close for them to hit.
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#41 Gordon71243

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 12:57 PM

I hav a Shaman character, level 46 so far, and I tend to agree that the casting time for all his spells is way to slow. The monsters are mobbing him before they take effect. This forces you to be constantly feeding them HP pots, and the spells use way too much MP too.
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#42 Genisyn

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 03:50 PM

The invulnerable mobs aren't because of spike wave.
If a summon hits a monster as its spawning. It becomes bugged, and only an AOE can hit it, because its only target-able by your summmons now, and not players. Often frustrates players who you are in party with. TERRIBLE in F6/F7/Bonus rooms-stages (don't stand on spawn points).

I agree with the horribly low damage, and long cast times on a lot of the spells. it seems that without alot of skill points as well. the class is terrible till about 55-60. I'll quote a guild mate who has played several others (war mage, archer, warrior(60+), ninja(50+) ) "I just can't deal with it, not only are you low damage, but you're summons bug the mobs so you can't even leech off of my damage till you get a decent summon. you're spells are unwieldy hard to target worse versions of other classes spells in alot of cases. Every class seems to get at least 1-3 really good mobs killing spells, your class seems to be at like level 2-3 of theirs. oh yea, you can eventually kill something, but i'll already plow through 2-3 groups in the time it takes you for 1. Its just a terrible class.

Specific balancing issues.
--Why is Smare shots buff so short in comparison to every other class? it should last at least as long as the def buff (5-8 mins or w/e not 2+mins)
--Why do the buffs you receive as spells terrible? hp recovery for players +20%? seriously? thats trash make a party heal or something, between that and cry of life you can heal PC's and summons. At least you'd contribute.
--Dykes summon points, either corrected in text, or possibly modified at lv 4 or 4/5. down to 1 point. maybe...
--Summons get a change in pvp. they don't get the damage reduction that Players do. so they are little more than paper thin nonsense in pvp. WASTEFUL.


Summon issues and comments
--Dire mists spell upgrade is ridiculous in practice, if you arent getting Kalki, don't get this if you want to use mists. why? even though this allows them to 'dash-aoe' it ruins their effectiveness in combos, because its animation is slow, or there is a cast timer. either way it often makes them leave your range and then reappear next to you, thus ending the close up fight with whatever the target was. Also, since mists can get a small interrupt in while biting things, the dash allows things to attack, if you want them to assist, not getting dire mist is more helpful, even if they are level 3 pre-req summons to pop out in addition to the summon you like.

--Blesser.... a sad sad little summon. It should do something else besides these little buffs which don't seem to give the effects they say they do. the range is terrible, and all it does is follow you no attacking anything... or even annoying it away from you. Idk a fear skill? slow skill added in to the original summon at lv 2 or 3 to make it a viable boost to your summoner army?

--Golgon - his summon time is fine, and similar to the others. But his reappearance while you are running around is RIDICULOUS. he's gotta crawl up all the time. Its funny to look at if you are on a bridge or jumping things, cause it appears as if he falls and grabs on at the last second. BUT, if he's away doing his special skills while you are running you gotta wait for that to abate, THEN wait for him to crawl up ever so slowly. His small heal while being hit is good in my opinion, its more like its a buff to the summoners natural hp regain. His other skills are awesome, and both are multiple hitters. The rolling attack can get a little annoying though - It can 'push' mobs that allow it too, so it can group mobs together, or sometimes split them apart, depends on what you are fighting. However, if he activates it inside of a mob and does the 2-3 rolls it can get a little glitched where the mobs are for a second. THEN if the mobs are very moveable or slightly airborne they can get thrown all over the damn place, thing like kalki's second skill (a small uppercut swimming move) or things like ambush for ninja can toss mobs out of the damn viewing area. UGh... that being said his skills seem to have a good height modifier on them, hitting even airborne enemys with his Aoes regardless so they are "hitting fallen, standing or airborne targets blah blah" in his spells effects. NICE!
-- Considering the game is a face paced arcade'y side scroller, with fast moves, action packed blah blah. why is summoner just sitting around. Even my decent skills take for-friggin-ever at level 5. I literally can't find a class i can keep up with pvm(party or not), or pvp. having seen or played most of the classes in action(the worst part... warrior at lv 10-20 seemed more capable of wiping mob groups than summoner level <50(obviously i mean level appropriate mobs), i have to say this is the worst class. and there is little they can do without beefing lots of spells, damage or timers in some fashion or another.
--Dyke. Don't get this guy if you party regularly with someone who can't hit grounded mobs, or if your summoner isn't geared that way. He will knock them down all the time.
--Kalki -- similar to dyke once you give him his tail skill, its a small aoe that knock monsters down. Useful if you're soloing as him and/or dyke keep things grounded, so dyke and kalki make an alright pair if you plan on keeping regular mobs grounded.
--


Other notes.
-- Kalki+golgon(with skills) is a pretty damn good team. Kalki and dyke are a little annoying because they constantly knock things down when they have the special skills.
--If you are looking for combos summon your mists, lv 1-5 with or without dire mist. doesn't matter they are weak, and you can put out a bunch. If you are going for 10k combos, put on a low level weapon or broken weapon and summon them out and let them beat on a normal set of mobs in a hidden map or something, easier if they are higher level.
--While i'm not a fan of them in the grand scheme of usage because of the timers. The Aoe's specifically spike waves (they last a while) are a must. Because of the bugged/invulnerable mobs. you'll want these, because inferno does not work in these instances. Until you get a good summon this can take forever.... especially if its a boss mob that came out (example, the trees in verderous forest.) you'll have to wait till a summon can defeat it. Most other classes can't find a skill suitable to AoE on them, even ninja's log can't effect them. Warrior seems to have little to offer in the instance as well.
-- If we are talking about skill points. It appears that rather than branching the spells into two classes and actually making them viable two classes were merged(pseudo-mage vs. summoner), both sides nerfed and then packed in a cool looking skin. I like summoner, but it is a terrible class in comparison to others. I recently dumped about 150$ into the Item mall on skill points, just to make the class DECENT. (thats why i know kalki and golgon are a good team). Even then, i still find that i'm lacking in points to get the decent spells now that i have a summon team. AND THATS FOCUSING ON SUMMMONING THEN SPELLS with about 350 MORE skill points than i should have and i still barely get lv 3-5 in the magic skills i NEED... that said, the summons speed particularly movement speed vs. reappearing on me, is probably my biggest heartache, if you don't stop killing even with your weak spells your summons rarely get involved if you are doing a good job targeting. unless you pull back, and watch them ever so methodically try to kill something, they don't do a thing otherwise. They need to move faster so they can at least contribute, AND if they did, the weak spells + summons actively using a decent AI to assist, would make for a better version of a weak, but decent class model that just needs a little work to make it lovable if only for the extra pets.

Long post, i was all over the place mentally. hopefully it makes sense.

Edited by Genisyn, 30 October 2011 - 03:58 PM.

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#43 Kazu731

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 04:00 PM

Dear Genisyn,

Summoners have an amazingly high MATK. A +15 Zauharant is comparable to a Warmage's +20 Zauharant. Smare shot is all you need in PvE. Mists if you want extra damage. You need better grasp of how to play the class.

Love, Prinz

Edited by Kazu731, 30 October 2011 - 04:04 PM.

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#44 Genisyn

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 04:19 PM

Dear Genisyn,

Summoners have an amazingly high MATK. A +15 Zauharant is comparable to a Warmage's +20 Zauharant. Smare shot is all you need in PvE. Mists if you want extra damage. You need better grasp of how to play the class.

Love, Prinz


Ah. Apparently I'm failing cause I don't have epic level gear. I know you're right, I do, it makes sense. I'd be a happy happy man if i had +15 anything. Sadly I don't, but comparing this to my other classes, in similarly +leveled gear. Also, since everything relates back to my MATK for the most part, these things would all increase by a % effect. The usage of these spells remains the same, sure i abuse the crap out of smare shot, but not having played the game for overly long, I didn't have a wealth of gold to surpass the limits of ~average gear. So for me, this is ground truth, for someone with better gear, the same spells, well they are better because of that not anything else. That changes nothing, I wasn't acting like I was dying repeatedly because I'm inept or didn't understand the spells. So, while the gear might make up for the difference in original spell damage? or Warmages instant casting? I still doubt this fact, but I'll get back to you in a few weeks if i happen across several thousand gold.

So you're statement of the only summon needed is mist... i can't agree with that at all, but thats build oriented. The - only one spell - that only modifies the original attack, makes PvE easy NOT of course the fact that you're wearing an amazing piece of gear. Of course if i had amazing gear level appropriate, at lv 15+ - 20. It would change my difficulty vs. PvE but thats gear... not spells, not use, gear. thats not play style, knowledge, its flat out base damage modified by gear. And the only way 'better understanding' i could have missed was if i was wearing +str gear and +atk gear instead of actually slowly, and gradually collecting gear the old fashioned way, the only thing i've gone out of my way for was skill points. And i'm a pretty good character, even with my crap gear. I know i'd be absolutely fantastic at PvE with that weapon. So, if i come across as slightly rude, Its not intentional, but my lack of good gear does not mean I'm ignorant.
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#45 zabmaru

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 04:33 PM

stuff


All mists are wonderful for PvE because they hold anything and everything firmly in place with their amazing aggro capabilities. Even if you upgrade them to Dire Mist (which I did because they look nice), their charge attack barely ever procs, and if it does, your 6 other mists will merrily go on about their business.

I daresay that all mists are great for undergeared people, in fact. I myself am still using level 40 armor, a magma gunstaff (at +4), and lots of Hlt accessories because I was going through a "GOLGON IS BEST" phase and I wanted him to have tons of HP. I can still destroy anything in PvE because of my having 7 or so mists out at once while using maxed out Smare. That many mists and smare will pretty much destroy any MM boss.

Hope that helped!
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#46 Kazu731

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 04:41 PM

I am beaten and weathered from the overwhelming facts. But when I say a +15 Zauharant is comparable to a +20 Warmage Zauharant, clearly the number scaling is the same even at lower plusses--it was pulling the extreme end out for the sake of displaying the sheer amount Summoners posses and that I could speak of truly from seeing it myself. Regardless, I don't care how bad you are at the class, but it's one of the few classes I'd say fares very well in "average" gear and not once did I mention that you need gear.

By the way, if you have 150 dollars to spend on Skill Forges for skills that are more PvP-oriented, you could have a +20 Zauharant and stop whining about your damage.

EDIT: Let me be more polite so we can actually get the facts out here. I'm not helping by being rude about it.

-From +15 to +20 there is an extremely high level scale. When I say that a +15 Zauharant Gun staff is comparable to a +20 Zauharant spear, there's a lot to be said there. This would mean that even a +4 is comparable to, say, a +10 or higher Spear. Of course, I use "comparable" and not near because they aren't that near. What I mean by this is that the Gun Staff has an extremely high MATK scale and it increases by a lot per upgrade

-Golgon and most summons are PvP-oriented. Golgon's skills are much more active than a Mist's simple bite. Trying to force summons that don't fit into the playstyle well will result in lots of party trauma, annoying knockdowns and effects you don't want. Mists, when used in numbers at high levels, function as a support damage that does not get in your way and serve as annoy tactics yet.

-Most Summoner skills are, as well, PvP-oriented. Things like the gates and skills with long cast times have effects that are for use against players. The cooldowns are a trade-off for these effects but clearly do not work for you in PvE because you don't need them. Smare Shot--which is recastable as soon as it ends--is bundles of damage very rapidly. Combine this with the support damage from Mists and you have superb damage. However, even with just Smare Shot you're capable of extremely high DPS and groggy on bosses.

I understand your frustrations but you are not using the class in the way it should be used for the mode of your choice. It is a very complex class and requires a complex playstyle, but it has a PvE method that you're missing out on through its sheer number of skills.

Edited by Kazu731, 30 October 2011 - 04:58 PM.

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#47 Genisyn

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 04:56 PM

I love the class, particularly in F7 (mmm movement speed debuff + freeze tower) works wonders near the beginning and only really decreases effectiveness when you surpass stage 40.
So I wouldn't really leave the class for another despite the gap in other areas, if only for that one spell. I agree in saying that Smare Shot is a great spell, but it doesn't change our other spells into useful combat scenarios that compare with something like war-mage.


The mists in mass thing, i totally agree, they are an underrated summon, but I spent alot of time using mists and only mists (during skill resets) while using point into spells so i could try them out and attempt to figure out a build since I was struggling finding something that worked well, I appreciated non-Dire Mist more.

I like Golgon's damage, and his hp is really not a focus he doesnt seem to take alot in damage(unless you count Aram's spikes ugh..), I think just having him and upping your damage for spells, which actually changes his damage as well which is pretty comparable to you own maybe 10% less on his skills vs. your skills in damage. But he's still an AI.
5+ mists(never actually tried 7 total) was always effective for locking down in PvE, but I think that they are.. wanderers, they sometimes split up for too many targets and don't do enough damage in general in comparison to the summoner.
When i first got golgon, i had him + the 3 mists, which still worked as well, if not better than the 5 mists. once golgon had skills though. the only thing i can say i dislike about mists 100% is the inability for the normal attack they have to hit multiple targets(which would be broke lol) and then the dash that can, but only in certain mob setups, and my distaste for it's timing. Especially if mists line a group up, they will start dashing through again and again. Its more about the AI finding a specific setup, that triggers this, and it just annoys me. I'd rather have normal biting mists than dire mists, it doesn't add a benefit in my opinion.


I am beaten and weathered from the overwhelming facts. But when I say a +15 Zauharant is comparable to a +20 Warmage Zauharant, clearly the number scaling is the same even at lower plusses--it was pulling the extreme end out for the sake of displaying the sheer amount Summoners posses and that I could speak of truly from seeing it myself. Regardless, I don't care how bad you are at the class, but it's one of the few classes I'd say fares very well in "average" gear and not once did I mention that you need gear.


I think I got caught in my own rant on that one. The comparison is accurate, they do get better base damage. However the comparison you used, is good. Because warmages get about 5 skills that are absolutely awesome, making them one of the best pve, regardless of lower MATK on the weapons, if compared to summoners, warmages still win. Things like 4secs, and 2 sec freezes after the AoEs, instant casting. If we are talking about balancing a class, you can't really point out the gear difference, if it still doesn't close the 'gap', and the gap is quite large. I guess thats the point i was trying to make.

Things people have already stated that i really would like to see change, like blessers buff range, low heal. Talking about bugs or edits like 1/2 summon points on dyke text, or the bugged mobs if a summon hits them while spawning. So the cast timers, recast, or things like length of smare shot buff. (which if you like the spell, you could agree making the buff longer would be great addition to our class) these are valid points in attempting to close the gap.

Edited by Genisyn, 30 October 2011 - 05:27 PM.

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#48 Kazu731

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 05:01 PM

I see your point. I added to my post to be more civil and less rude and I apologize for being rude.

The primary issue is that you want to focus on all of the skills--as we ALL did when the class first came out--but there has been an established route of PvE skill. Rolling Stone, Dragon Tooth, and even Inferno can function as situational attack skills--think of it as compared to a Priest that mostly relies on x-spam, and uses Spark Rock and Fire Rain as extra skill damage, whereas a Summoner uses Smare Shot, Mists, and those skills.
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#49 Genisyn

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 05:46 PM

I think my first post, and even the other are very.. disjointed (this one will probably end up the same.. stupid brain). I was writing all the things i've seen, or done. They aren't really separated out into the different builds i was using as i was growing, skill resetting, and waiting on new spells to become part of my build(s).

I have used the all mists, + dragon tooth. while 20-39. After that my primary switched to the Air Splash(smash,can't remember)(simply because you lose alot of aggro when jumping, it also seemed more effective to large groups, rather than just hitting their front line, dragon tooth made alot of issues on fast mobs like skeletons), then onto smare shot. I'm pretty happy now that i've grown into the most of summoner's prime, and might even find that other builds work better later on once i play around a bit more. So around 39/40 when i reset i did not take dire mist again, or doomanik or any other summon(and used regular mists till golgon came around). while beefing up all the new attacks the class offered. That was why i was alot happier with Mist vs. Dire mist, since they never proc'd the dash, and only locked enemies. Then of course keeping my primary attacks and trying out kalki and golgon seemed fun, so i tried that as well. I'm partially happy, since kalki does good damage, and golgon adds. they can wipe mobs fairly easily, if a little slowly in terms of forward movement for the summoner. A good example is playing in a hidden map, firing smare one way, and destroying an entire group while they take out the group in the opposite direction in a similar but slightly longer amount of time. Still, its slow in comparison to other classes of a similar level. But not broken, just room for improvement.
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#50 Genisyn

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:26 PM

Something I wrote yesterday, but didn't really expand upon.
The -Pacing- of summoner.
I referenced golgon specifically, for his long animation on 'summoning' when he really should just pop back up. I mean if a summon isn't attacking something while you move away, it should rejoin you immediately i.e.. like dark flip or any other attacking pet like felion. They are right there shooting away, they move as fast as you can. Thats! what i'm talking about, obviously felion is ranged, so he would be shooting a fireball as soon as he steps out after idk, a jump pad. So if my Summon, for this example mist, isn't attacking something when i dash jump away, he should follow, not slowly, or in a manner that he falls behind and has to re-summon animation. Same thing with a golgon or any other, the second animation for reappearing next to you, waiting for the AI to kick in after that, they simply can't keep up. In a game that is all about Pace/action, and a fast paced action at that. The summons should all receive a better movement speed at least. I say this because even Kalki with his extra 20% he's still unable to keep up on normal dashing, not even dash jumps, regardless if he's at all distracted, he won't tag along after you until you're long gone, however he at least keeps up on walking/stopping in tighter areas rather than constantly respawning. If the base movement of every summon were to recieve a 20% boost, putting them at his (after buff) speed, and his new increase would be like 44% of his norm, allowing him a still margin to be the quickest summon without breaking them. If you're in mission mode, no summon keeps up unless you STOP moving, and 'creep' for lack of better terms. Add this to having a party for most mission, you're summons are almost never on screen with you for more than a few seconds, rarely get a attack in, if they do, maybe one attack tops. Thats not effective. If you do a dash jump, they should idk, dash forward like a skeleton(speed reference) to stay with you. obviously if you're constantly jumping eventually they will fall behind.
If they were distracted like golgon with a long spell animation, he'll have to respawn near you, that should be faster as well. NOt effecting his timers to make his dps higher, just make his(or any other summon) current DPS in your area.

So recap that jumble of nonsense - Summons should keep up at least to stay in screen with you, if they are not currently attacking they should follow quickly, and keep up. Not changing the range or anything on summons wandering from the summoner, but if the player moves in a large way, they should keep up or catch up sooner, start attacking sooner without a long resummon animation.

I hate my ability to convey thoughts, its always nonsense lol.
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