54 replies to this topic

[DarkDan]

What are peoples thoughts on a Chasers ability to Manhole/Shadow Form/Trap Kill a enemy? What are peoples thoughts on us losing the ability to pot while in Manhole?

If your a Chaser, please post that you are a Chaser when you give your opinion.

Im not trolling. I'll just post that I am against them having the option to Shadow Form us without us being able to pot in manhole. I don't like nerfs in general and it seems like all classes were nerfed against Chasers when they took away the ability to pot in manhole. Im not opposed to them having the ability to Shadow Form while a player is in manhole but at least give us back the option to pot through the traps lol. Shadow form in general is pretty tough to get around as it is. It has instant cast from a distance and the Chaser takes no damage while under it. Manhole is already pretty tough as it is as well. It can be cast from a distance and lasts entirely to long. Its broken right now and can lock somebody down as long as the Chaser is not interrupted. Traps are also tough when given the option to stack. When given the option to stack traps a Chaser(with all of there great skills that they already have) get Gfist strength in PvP.

I think a good balance would be to give them the ability to manhole(not set manhole side by side to lock you down), Shadow Form, and lay single layer traps on the ground while still giving the player in manhole the option to pot through the traps. I think the chasers skill set is a little messed up for PvP and leads to skill abuse. Once your manholed your pretty much dead as it is now. They out dps a Sura in PvP with all of there disable skills, cloak, backslide, etc.....

Edited by DarkDan, 16 September 2011 - 10:24 PM.

[Ralis]

You're basing this off of PvP, which is the first mistake.

Real PvP (WoE) shouldn't be a 1v1 thing. It's good that there are classes that can completely stop a single person from taking down all the barricades (coughcoughstormblastingRKcough) IMO.

The pot thing, though, I do agree with. Not being able to use items in Manhole and WI annoys me, because even my ability to BWing is disabled, and a lot of the time I can't log due to the slow damage being done through WI. At least traps & Shadowform will instakill me, but making me Alt+F4 sucks. =(

Edited by Ralis, 17 September 2011 - 02:46 PM.

[DarkDan]

You're basing this off of PvP, which is the first mistake.

Real PvP (WoE) should be a 1v1 thing. It's good that there are classes that can completely stop a single person from taking down all the barricades (coughcoughstormblastingRKcough) IMO.

Chasers are strong in WoE as well but PvP is still important. Its a place for people to go to practice for WoE. Remember what I posted. I am not opposed to them having manhole in pvp and woe. Im not opposed to them even having the ability to shadow form a player in manhole(its still somewhat cheap). Im opposed to them having that option without us being able to pot a attack while in manhole.

Edited by DarkDan, 16 September 2011 - 10:25 PM.

[Mefistofeles]

well manhole have a few changes, the trap damages are based on trap mastery in the future, manhole atm its stupid, as that masquerade that divest the weapon even with full chemical protection

[GuardianTK]

PvP is all about who makes the first move and 1-shotting people afterwards. It's not a place where you go to practice for WoE. In a realistic WoE-setting, it's never a 1vs1 scenario. It's all about levels, teamwork, numbers, and the proper classes. Keep the two separate please. If you're an RG who dies to Traps in WoE, there's seriously something wrong with your strategy. There's also something wrong if you think Chasers out-DPS Suras, whether in PvP or WoE.

I do agree that it is kinda ridiculous to not be able to use items while in Manhole though

Wanna counter a Chaser though? Go make a GX or a Genetic.

[NoxiousOrchid]

They fix this in the skill patch.

Fire Trap - Less Damage

Manhole - no longer able to place them adjacent to each other

Shadow Formation - Dispelled by detection skills

[Unifan]

next skill patch

september 2013

[Tirasu]

I do agree that it is kinda ridiculous to not be able to use items while in Manhole though

Tie your arms up behind your back and tell me it's ridiculous for me to expect you to drink a coffee. Now someones stuck in a pit, there arms being tightly pushed against there body barely able to move (the timer you're stuck being the time it takes you to finally break the ground enough to get out) and expected to drink a jug of alcohol when you can't move your hands or arms anywhere near your face.

My thoughts on it is that there is only ONE thing wrong with manhole, and one thing wrong with shadow form.

Manhole - the ability to indefinitely trap someone by placing a manhole next to the one they are in (which is getting fixed)

Shadow form - being usable on someone in manhole.


Personally having strip/masq skills work on people in manhole is enough, they are immune to all damage so they SHOULD be immune to damage-causing effects (such as shadow form) as well.
Also personally, I find that using shadow form and walking over your OWN traps (which don't damage you just allies) to do damage to someone in a manhole is a bug, rather than intended.

Edited by Tirasu, 17 September 2011 - 02:11 AM.

[Kadnya]

Pvp is dumb. Generally people inside are charas geared enough to kill the other target in one fast click, or kill slowly with things that are only possible on a 1 vs 1 fight that doesn't resemble a real WoE at all.

Imagine a chaser in woe man-holing one chara then wasting several seconds placing traps then shadow forming and walking over traps, then if traps didn't kill target yet, walking away to cancel shado form, walking back, re-manhole, set several traps again, shadow form, walk over... while it takes a killer class to do the same damage faster, and chaser is better disabling several enemies in that time instead of killing just one.

Pvp in RO has never been fair. Try to imagine a fight of like, a thief and an archer being fair. Or a rogue vs a knight. Or a gypsy vs a champion. Or an archbishop vs a sura. Or anything vs the skills which you need more than one chara to counter, like white imprison, manhole, cursed circle, etc... pvp in RO is just for fun random poking, and the worst place to look for balance in RO.

[ExDarkrb]

Wanna counter a Chaser though? Go make a GX or a Genetic.

Dont go looking for us, we die faster and we dont really work on SCs in PVP

[Easly]

honestly idk why the gms disabled potting and such in manhole, that was supposed to come with the balance patch when you could only be put in 1 manhole and the chaser couldn't place another one down next to you. it will be nerfed sooner or later but it was just a stupid decision on their part to only let part of the manhole nerf come in which actualy buffed the skill quite a bit

[DarkDan]

PvP is silly but it is the only place to practice against each other that is not woe. It sucks but it is what it is. I now have a 150/50 Sura that im trying to learn to play in a pvp/woe setting. I also have a 150 RG that I don't feel real good at playing as well. Better than my Sura but im not very good. I would like to go to PvP and practice. I don't go in there and Gfist/Exceed Break everybody over and over again. A lot of these Chasers know they have the upper hand in PvP and abuse it. The main skill they abuse is this. They even abuse it when its not a practical way to kill in woe. Why practice or abuse a skill over and over again in PvP if it has no practical application in woe?

I just feel like they are trolling pvp with that skill lol. Its the same as them manholing you outside of pvp. They basically can disable your ability to practice in pvp with a skill that is only practical in pvp.

Edited by DarkDan, 17 September 2011 - 07:11 AM.

[Keollyn]

At least one of these will still be usable in MvP maps

Edited by Keollyn, 17 September 2011 - 07:21 AM.

[Kadnya]

Why practice or abuse a skill over and over again in PvP if it has no practical application in woe?

Maybe those chasers think that pvp and woe are two different worlds and are not trying to practice, but having fun. Unless you specifically ask people for a duel and they agree, and set rules, and maybe go to the special rooms with WoE mechanics, I don't think you will be able to practice woelike, other than in both places you can attack people...

Battleground/KVM fights resembled Woe much more than pvp, sadly, battlegrounds dun work well now. But you could ask your guildmates to have some KVM matches to practice, or at least to do some matches in woe settings, maybe...

[sheepmia]

Thoughts about cc/ gfist ?
Thoughts about pinpoint/eb/vp?
Thoughts about howl/thorn trap/hell plant?
Thoughts about WI/GF?

besides, if the balance changes come,
please cancel the 5 seconds delay since there is no reason iro makes this change anymore.

[Kadnya]

besides, if the balance changes come,
please cancel the 5 seconds delay since there is no reason iro makes this change anymore.

This, please x_x

[Clogon]

PvP is silly but it is the only place to practice against each other that is not woe.

You do know iRO has GVG maps right? Where you can practice in a WoE setting. <.<

Edit:

besides, if the balance changes come,
please cancel the 5 seconds delay since there is no reason iro makes this change anymore.

I prefer the aftercast delay to be removed so I can instantly escape. =/ The delay is there so we cannot trap more than 3 people at a time.

Edited by Clogon, 17 September 2011 - 09:40 AM.

[Mefistofeles]

pvp still as a part of the game, some people dont even woe, WOE ITS ALL WHAT THE GAME CAN OFFER? we demand something for pvp becouse some people dont have enough time even for woe, and still dumb that manhole doenst works on the caster(hell plant too) why the rangers have to deal against their own traps??????????? and this 2 classes no?

[Clogon]

pvp still as a part of the game, some people dont even woe, WOE ITS ALL WHAT THE GAME CAN OFFER? we demand something for pvp becouse some people dont have enough time even for woe, and still dumb that manhole doenst works on the caster(hell plant too) why the rangers have to deal against their own traps??????????? and this 2 classes no?

Ranger traps don't affect the caster. Only Hunter traps do.

[Kadnya]

pvp still as a part of the game, some people dont even woe, WOE ITS ALL WHAT THE GAME CAN OFFER? we demand something for pvp becouse some people dont have enough time even for woe, and still dumb that manhole doenst works on the caster(hell plant too) why the rangers have to deal against their own traps??????????? and this 2 classes no?

That extra activity like WoE which is not WoE, was battlegrounds (fight mode, not farming mode). It was superfun while it lasted, and I remember seeing several people gather daily to fight in both terra and flavius... but when it looked like RO finally had some fun activity where people could play their characters which wasn't WoE or leveling, there came renewal, breaking everything...

Unless there is a team PvP, and/or several skills blocked/removed/changed, a direct player vs player isn't very viable... try to imagine your sorcerer against an arch bishop, for example, then try to imagine how can the bishop win. Or Imagine your sorc vs a gunslinger/linker/any of the expanded classes and think about something they can try to win. Dun say expanded classes don't count, since expanded classes are still part of the game, and there are/were players who enjoyed playing them... a direct player vs player isn't possible without radically changing the game ^^;.

[DarkDan]

Thoughts about cc/ gfist ?
Thoughts about pinpoint/eb/vp?
Thoughts about howl/thorn trap/hell plant?
Thoughts about WI/GF?

besides, if the balance changes come,
please cancel the 5 seconds delay since there is no reason iro makes this change anymore.

Thoughts on cc/gfist: You have to be close to land CC. CC only lasts a few seconds. CC uses spheres and can't lock a person down forever. Chaser can still shadow form you during the cast of Gfist. Its a cheap skill but doesn't match manhole/shadow form in pvp.

Thoughts on Pinpoint/EB/VP: Its a good combo but you can hide at least. Cast pneuma? EB weapon swap is cheap but being that this is my main I can tell you this combo is not as good as manhole/shadow form in pvp.

I play those two classes so I feel I can post my thoughts. I did say in pvp setting. In woe both of the above skills is better than manhole/shadow form.

[NoxiousOrchid]

You do know iRO has GVG maps right? Where you can practice in a WoE setting. <.<

It is a shame this isn't used more often.

[GuardianTK]

Thoughts on cc/gfist: You have to be close to land CC. CC only lasts a few seconds. CC uses spheres and can't lock a person down forever. Chaser can still shadow form you during the cast of Gfist. Its a cheap skill but doesn't match manhole/shadow form in pvp.

Thoughts on Pinpoint/EB/VP: Its a good combo but you can hide at least. Cast pneuma? EB weapon swap is cheap but being that this is my main I can tell you this combo is not as good as manhole/shadow form in pvp.

I play those two classes so I feel I can post my thoughts. I did say in pvp setting. In woe both of the above skills is better than manhole/shadow form.

Let me add to that combo: Snap+CC+GFist. You're bad if you miss with CC after a good Snap. The moment any class gets hit with CC, they are unable to perform any kind of move until the Sura is finished with theirs. This is where GFist comes in to finish the opponent off(Assuming it's not an RG). A Chaser is no exception to this. They cannot Shadow Form you while they are CC'ed. Learn to play combo better.

Not every class has Pneuma. You should see the PPA/VP+EB combo during WoE. Unlike every class other than GX's melee attacks buffed with EDP, an RG's weapon swap EB bug allows them to bypass WoE-reductions. Unless you're a class with a Medium HP Mod, you're gonna get 1-shot no matter how many reduction gears you stack. It's an instant-casted GFist(Which can be prepared beforehand and can be spammed in the right situations) if you want to compare it to something. If you want enough juice to kill someone, simply VP/PPA and then immediately poke them to finish them off right afterwards.

Please keep the two settings separate. You can't base balancing opinions off of PvP. Nobody cares about PvP. It's why you see the same exact people there every day, where 90% of the classes are Suras, RK's, Genetics, and RG's actively killing people. Chasers are mostly there just to annoy people or to troll people with the above mentioned Manhole+Trap+SF combo.

I remember some certain Sura complaining about Hayroh's RG's Genesis Ray in PvP. You see people standing there mass-dying to it as well if they weren't paying attention. In WoE though, people can stand there minding their own business after a good recall and they're still not going to die to a single Genesis.

Try making a 150/50 GX with Oblivion Curse first. Then let's see you complain about Chasers.

[Mefistofeles]

Thoughts on cc/gfist: You have to be close to land CC. CC only lasts a few seconds. CC uses spheres and can't lock a person down forever. Chaser can still shadow form you during the cast of Gfist. Its a cheap skill but doesn't match manhole/shadow form in pvp.

Thoughts on Pinpoint/EB/VP: Its a good combo but you can hide at least. Cast pneuma? EB weapon swap is cheap but being that this is my main I can tell you this combo is not as good as manhole/shadow form in pvp.

I play those two classes so I feel I can post my thoughts. I did say in pvp setting. In woe both of the above skills is better than manhole/shadow form.

cc its totally wrong and you and all suras know it

[DarkDan]

cc its totally wrong and you and all suras know it

I said CC is cheap. No doubt. But is limited. When you CC and then fist, a Chaser can still shadow form the Sura during the cast period.

I have a 116/24 GX with oblivion curse: