282 replies to this topic

[celestience]

Definitely spell enchantments to cast hell plant faster.

oh okay thank. how about mailbreaker? i read it somewhere that it works with thorn wall, how about defaulting that in woe? or edge?

or maybe switching? hell plant>ck and thornwall>MB?

Edited by celestience, 20 November 2012 - 03:50 AM.

[Kadelia]

If you know the trick why are you asking. Yes, mailbreaker works with thorn wall and you can put -20% cast time on it as well. If you're going to weapon switch I'd slot the mailbreaker and put [double cursing solid] in it instead of doing the -20% enchants, since thorn wall cast time is very short.

[celestience]

oh okay thanks for the tip. just wanted to make sure of it's feasibility in woe before splurging on something

[Scuba]

Can someone clarify the difference between level 1 crazy vines and level 10 crazy vines? It says there is 8 vines at level 10... What does that mean? Is that 8 hits? 8 Gans?

[Kadelia]

It's like meteor storm. Within the range of the AoE (I think 11x11) it strikes a random cell in there up to 8 times (by skill level), picking a new cell each time. Every cell it strikes becomes a 3x3 AoE that deals a bit of earth damage and does the equivalent of Gambetain.

In order to clear any reasonable amount of any ground skill you are trying to destroy, you need the higher vine count, or you'll probably miss your target completely.

Edited by Jaye, 26 November 2012 - 05:23 PM.

[Scuba]

So level one will gan once?

[Kadelia]

I does a 3x3 Gambetain a random number of times, depending on skill level.

[asayuu]

Cart cannon in TIs. Damage based off STR and INT. Rate of fire based off DEX.

And ASPD, but you can always drink a berserk potion to have a faster rate.

So let's say. Which weapon is the best to bombing, now with malangdo enchants?

I was thinking about a double Expert Archer [5 or 6] AK Hurricane Fury, or Byellongum... How much would they behave comparing to the "current" best bomb weapons?

[Kadelia]

And ASPD, but you can always drink a berserk potion to have a faster rate.

So let's say. Which weapon is the best to bombing, now with malangdo enchants?

I was thinking about a double Expert Archer [5 or 6] AK Hurricane Fury, or Byellongum... How much would they behave comparing to the "current" best bomb weapons?

No offense to the posters here asayuu but if they need to know what stats they need for cart cannon I sincerely doubt they are pro enough to stat like 180+ DEX/160+ INT to have aspd even make a difference on cart cannon.

Expert Archer (any level) Hurricane Fury is going to be the best. An Expert Archer Byellongum should be pretty good, it should rate a little better than a red twin edge possibly if it has Expert Archer 5~6 * 2. Mjolnir would probably still be better than the Byellongum.

Against a "Boss" a Byellongum should have 150*1.5 = 225 ATK. Even with 8~10% less ranged damage than a triple kingbird twin edge, this is still 65 more ATK, so it's a bit better. Not a lot better. I'd probably stick to the twin edge because you can cart cannon adds with it better and not take +10% damage from enemies.

[asayuu]

Weird but any ASPD boost affects cart cannon. My low dex 185 aspd genetic recasts faster than my high dex 175 aspd genetic. She just is not better because I was lazy and made her non-trans because I wanted the sprite and the "change material" skill her dex and str are 50 so damage is not that great. But for CC (and CT to a small extent), ASPD is one of the keys for fast damage.

I used the calculator (with AB) while I was thinking, and there is a difference of 40k from the current "best" weapon to EA6/EA6 hurricane, on the maximum damage. Sounds cool. Sad how level 4 weapons have terrible standard deviation so the peak damage is too far away from minimum.

Against phreeoni was something like:

+12 AKASAS twin - 120k peak
+12 EA6EA6 byellongum - 140k peak
+12 AKEAEA6 hurricane - 160k peak.

Edited by asayuu, 28 November 2012 - 04:27 AM.

[Viri]

cart cannon has a pretty significant animation, probably why it's noticable.

[DrAzzy]

cart cannon has a pretty significant animation, probably why it's noticable.

Yeah, it's especially noticable if you're using Painkiller. My male gen gets an awful animation delay in PK. I've started using zerks and ECJ - and I can actually see the difference.

Also, was much better with a hammer - again, aspd.

Edited by DrAzzy, 28 November 2012 - 06:50 AM.

[MarcelAditya]

but now the point is
which one is better for AB according to average damage and maximum damage output (for MVP):
1. Triple KB Red Naght Sieger
2. Triple KB Elementral Sword

[Kadelia]

Red Nacht Seiger on both counts.

+12 Twin Edge = 245~356 ATK & 85~196 MATK Total: 330~552 (Avg: 441)
+12 Elemental Sword = 166~228 ATK & 156~219 MATK Total: 322~447 (Avg: 384)

As you can see the minimum damage is close but the twin edge's max damage is around 23.5% higher.

There is variance for the weapon level as well (5% per weapon level) and STR bonus. The variance at first will make the nacht sieger's minimum damage lower, but the STR bonus brings it right back up.

100 STR:
+12 Twin Edge = 277 ~ 484 ATK & 85~196 MATK Total: 362~680 (Avg: 521)
+12 Elemental Sword = 194~305 ATK & 156~219 MATK Total: 350~524 (Avg: 437)
Mjolnir = 458~682 ATK & 10 MATK Total: 468~692 (Avg: 580)

• Twin Edge also way more useful because it can be used with cart cannon.
• The failure point of the elemental sword is that it is a level 3 weapon.
• As you can see it doesn't matter if the weapon adds a lot of MATK if it adds little to no ATK.
• If you are curious about why I have 10 matk on the Mjolnir, 50 DEX adds 10 ATK and MATK.

At poor refines, the Elemental Sword is a bit better performing than above.

100 STR:
+7 Twin Edge = 242~379 ATK & 49~91 MATK Total: 291~470 (Avg: 380)
+7 Elemental Sword = 169~240 ATK & 156~215 MATK Total: 325~455 (Avg: 390)

Conculusion:
Elemental sword is better by a TINY MARGIN if you are uber poor and stiop at a weak upgrade like +7. However, if you don't stop there, and go higher upgrades, the Nacht Sieger becomes better instantly. Also, the Nacht Sieger is way more useful since it works with cart cannon, crazy vines, acid terror, sling item, etc, and the elemental sword is only "good" (not really) for Acid Bomb.

Edited by Jaye, 08 December 2012 - 08:40 AM.

[komorih]

Don't hit me xD but.... if i'm poor can i use a saber with zipper bears while i get zeny?

[chr0nicles]

Don't hit me xD but.... if i'm poor can i use a saber with zipper bears while i get zeny?

another good alternative would be double kingbird Carga Mace.
and i'm pretty sure with 100++ STR, even clean Carga Mace [2] still better than Saber with 3 zipper.

[DrAzzy]

Why are we not getting any luck in these builds?

If that formula is accurate, we should damned well be getting luck....

another good alternative would be double kingbird Carga Mace.
and i'm pretty sure with 100++ STR, even clean Carga Mace [2] still better than Saber with 3 zipper.

This is correct, assuming equip attack goes where I would expect it to in the formula at top of thread, and assuming that formula is accurate.

Edited by DrAzzy, 10 December 2012 - 09:12 AM.

[gerpogi]

so sword mastery isnt entirely useless? since it gives aspd and all...

[DrAzzy]

Also, formula at top of thread appears to be wrong.
I cannot make it produce numbers that reflect actual ingame damage.

Has anyone had success predicting AB damage?

It's 50-80% high (depending on how I interpret it) on bakonawa, and 5% low on spores.

With 92 str, 112 vit, 106 dex, 3 luk (all total), using +11 3x Kingbird RTE (no other relevant gear) on spores (10 vit) has given damage as low as 9080 to 9350.
Same stats+weap on Bakonawa with 194 vit gives damage of min 100k


The variance of acid bomb damage seems much smaller than these formulas would imply. Why is this so?

Some more damage tests I made while looking at this. Same stats.
Unarmed vs weak monsters:

Poring 360
Creamy 330
Lunatic 1100
Spore 3680
Wormtail 5160

Edited by DrAzzy, 11 December 2012 - 11:48 AM.

[DrAzzy]

Tested and confirmed.

Sword Mastery does not effect acid bomb damage. Neither does the Cart Boost atk increase, which is also mastery type. Hence, Acid Bomb is not effected by mastery attack.

Using my above stats with a +0 NPC sword, on spores. Damage was always 3920-3940, both with and without SM5.

[GinaKay]

Tested and confirmed.

Sword Mastery does not effect acid bomb damage. Neither does the Cart Boost atk increase, which is also mastery type. Hence, Acid Bomb is not effected by mastery attack.

AFAIK all skills aren't affected by mastery attack right? So would it be a waste to raise skills like Axe Mastery and Sword Mastery if you aren't planning to Ctrl+click at all? Cuz I put points on them lol.

[DrAzzy]

AFAIK all skills aren't affected by mastery attack right? So would it be a waste to raise skills like Axe Mastery and Sword Mastery if you aren't planning to Ctrl+click at all? Cuz I put points on them lol.

Correct.

I don't know that all skills aren't effected by them, but I think that's the case. Certainly, they're not effected by them the way you want them to be.

[GinaKay]

Oh. Well time to go buy a Neuralizer -.-

[DrAzzy]

Regarding AB damage - It appears to be linearly dependent on atk (the satk*2+watk+eatk kind of atk) and matk. The dependence on vit is nearly linear as well, but it doesn't appear to be quite a straight line. I suspect it's "rounding gone wild). I cannot determine how it's handling defense - but I don't think it's doing it in any way that someone looking at the other renewal formulas would consider correct.

Going from 2.6% to 24.9% equip defense is reducing the atk portion of damage in one of my tests by around 1%.... And yet, there is a clear need for reduction coming from SOMEWHERE on big monsters, because linear extrapolation implies that damage should be markedly higher - and that's using def to reduce weapon attack only, which still produces results showing reduction inconsistent with tests vs Dryads as compared to Toucans.

So far I cannot make sense of these numbers. Tests on MDEF are forthcoming.

Tests are ongoing to further elucidate the details of the Acid Bomb formula.

Oh. Well time to go buy a Neuralizer -.-

I used 2 in 1 day this week. Miscalculated on my skills (wishful calculation regarding skill points)

Edited by DrAzzy, 14 December 2012 - 08:43 AM.

[Ginko1]

I would like to know some good leveling places for an agi type alche for now just till i turn gene im 70 and good places and for beyond 80, 90 and so???

Thanks in advance