161 replies to this topic

[Noone1981]

Dear community and development team,

Let me introduce myself. I'm an old timer here,a senior java developer who just turned 30 this year.

I started this game with a beta account, in the old days when there was only 1 planet... I witnessed the birth of Luna.

Then the game became payable and i quit, since i couldn't afford it back then.

Since i discovered, it was free to play again. I started again and enjoyed this game a lot.

I'm an occassional solo player (2-10h a week) and i really "hate" pvp and only enjoy pvm and never payed at the IM.

I understand that you need to earn money out of a game, so i got nothin against the IM. I buy my stuff from other players who do buy on the IM, like "job skill reset book",... So in an indirect way, you make money from me !!!

But when the day comes that you guys start restricting things to the "free" accounts of game play/behavior, like content which will only be accessible to "premium accounts". This game will be dead.

Why? because you guys will only develop for those "paying" players and not for the free in general and all those players will quit after a while. It's already the case almost. Every update is IM and no content.

What i really dislike atm in this game is that it is focussed on pvp.

It was possible to do repeatable quests in eldeon to get faction points and get your UW gear. Now that is impossible. You need to pvp and i hate pvp.

What i also hate is that you guys didn't introduce any new content since last years Orlo introduction. You refactored some old maps, which is nice for starting a new character, but some players would like to play again with their old high lv ones.

The hero quest which still doesn't continue at Luna. How long has that been?

I see a remake of cave Ulverick. Well why did you make that cave being a "party dungeon". That's one of the reasons i quit WoW 3 years ago. 20 man dungeons, hours in 1 dungeon and sometimes for nothing. That isn't normal. I like a game where you can reach everything with just a lot of time and work(farming/questing) even if there are faster ways for others(dungeons). You just need to let that possibility open.(That's why a lot of players loved Diablo and i guess you will loose LOADS of players when Diablo 3 comes out if you guys don't change some stuff...)

If i see what you guys are planning, then i'm disappointed as being a solo pvm player...

Sorry...

[LordArthas]

If i see what you guys are planning, then i'm disappointed as being a solo pvm player...

It's of no confort but you certainly aren't the only one.

[tythemuss]

What are you saying? They can't own players . In that case you wouldn't be allowed to stop playing their game, which is not the case.

Are you that moronic that u cant even comprehend what i was even talking about?
If you actually read what i had posted you would have gotten what i meant, but being a "troll" (i could call you something else but it would get edited out) you would have just picked at the first thing that came to mind instead of really reading what i said.

Now... im gunna put this into a very VERY easy way to see what i meant.

"Are you serious? of course it means they own the player! Theres even a agreement you have to accept"

If you read this, this mean that the player is accepting to a legal document which if you "dumb it down" means that developers have all the power and you have none, thus meaning that as long as you play, they own everything you have made during the game and could pretty much do anything they wanted (meaning they own the player)....

Now am i going to fast for you or should i add more gaps and dumb it down?

[Feuer]

I've got 5 days off in a row, I'll do what I can to design some new models for you guys Cal, and this game plan for the news few months is the best effort I've seen from the dev team ever, Im proud of you guys and your initiative to take these matters into your own hands, goodluck and best wishes. Cheers ~ feuer

[Naughty]

My personal gaming interest is in Orlo and an overhaul of map layouts, monster spawns etc.
As a keen farmer, im hoping end game farming, to be made more enticing, than what it is currently.

[MidnightSmurf]

It doesn't make sense to force players to party with only premium, or to make premium users stand out in some large significant way.
Content like PvP or Leveling won't be for premium only, but with a small team its harder to keep moving forward on bigger projects if when they go out they don't off set the costs of them.

I couldn't help but to relate to Boosters & Jelly when you said Premium accounts wouldn't stand out significantly.. When IM users in general do stand out SIGNIFICANTLY.

Booster & Jelly

My personal gaming interest is in Orlo and an overhaul of map layouts, monster spawns etc.
As a keen farmer, im hoping end game farming, to be made more enticing, than what it is currently.

Personally I must say I reckon Orlo is the planet I have least interest in eventho it might be a good farming spot. I simply find the place boring compared to Luna and Eldeon (if you remove the bloody leaves).

Instances for PvM end-game.. I would love farming.

[AlisiaMT]

That fact is, this is a company owned game. A player plays the game, not own it (thats why its called a player)... Now a good developer takes in some feed back not all. And builds a game that the developer feels like is a good game, not what the player thinks is a good game. Now if anyone has any delusions about owning this game or thinking they have an equal share in what gets added or not to the game and keeps whining about crap that should be added or taken out that the developer doesn't want to add or take out, seriously should just leave. What they add is what they think is best for the players thats why they add it

Would you eat a Hamburger with Jelly, Squid, and saurkraut on it? Thats pretty much what you are telling us to do. Just accept that the devs have been giving us something revolting and beg for more.
News Flash, dear: If the players leave, the company goes out of business and the developers lose their jobs so they sure as hell should be concerned with what we, the players, think about their product because when it all comes down to it, we are paying for the clothes on their back and the food on their table. We do own the game.

[AlisiaMT]

@ Devs,
The premium account in theory sounds good, but just like Communism, in practice it's doomed to fail. Like others I have all but moved on from ROSE. It was my first mmorpg and has been my only one until recently when someone who quit rose asked me to play another one with him. It makes me sad to see IM update after IM update and I can only see that happening in the future with the premium accounts. Honestly, I love the graphics and community of rose (although the forums are vicious ) but the only reason I'm still here is because my shop got boycotted and I couldn't sell my equipment and that is because the content is lacking.

I dont mind if we have content updates once a month (I was actually going to suggest it in P&S) so you guys can focus on quality instead of getting anything out for the next patch (cuz i know we like to complain when you guys skip a patch). You guys have to focus on content though. Maybe you should focus on the drop table and leveling rate right now and after that, while revamping old maps you can work on the remaining worlds (and items to go with them). After the rest of the worlds are complete throw them all in at once and start to work on end game content. Because of the drop and exp rate change we'll be leveling for a while and it will give you guys time to do your pvp system properly and can throw that all in at once.

[Zayin]

Are you that moronic that u cant even comprehend what i was even talking about?
If you actually read what i had posted you would have gotten what i meant, but being a "troll" (i could call you something else but it would get edited out) you would have just picked at the first thing that came to mind instead of really reading what i said.

Now... im gunna put this into a very VERY easy way to see what i meant.

"Are you serious? of course it means they own the player! Theres even a agreement you have to accept"

If you read this, this mean that the player is accepting to a legal document which if you "dumb it down" means that developers have all the power and you have none, thus meaning that as long as you play, they own everything you have made during the game and could pretty much do anything they wanted (meaning they own the player)....

Now am i going to fast for you or should i add more gaps and dumb it down?

First, I must say this topic is not the right place to start a flame war. Unlike you just did in the above quote, I didn't insult you in my reply (who's the real troll?). You're also making the assumption that I didn't read your entire post which is false. My reply simply pointed out your apparent misunderstanding of what owning the players really means. They don't own the players like a cellphone company has their claws on you when you sign a contract then have to send monthly payments, but own the characters and items belonging to the players. There's a big difference.

[TangoBaby86]

Well I've spent the evening reading up on this thread, and the jewelery changes thread. And frankly i have a migraine from it. and I find the outlook atm very depressing. I have to note a couple of things here.

First, with the jewelery changes: I was one of the people who cried 'where did the jewelery go???" However, this is the 3rd or 4th time where ive put out real cash on item mall, to have it become useless garbage. (the first time, years ago, my cleric was forced to become full support so i lost my attack power IM passive. rather it became useless, when its cost was 1500 points! more recently, it was the ruvens, when rades were taken out, then raid drops were removd,. Then most recently my UW tickets, no longer usable, and no longer having UW quests available for the new HONOR point system for UW gears. The mall ought to have a disclaimer stating it reserves the right to change any item it sells, or disable / remove it all together.

This time out, I've spent time creating my jewelry sets over the past year for my various toons, separate sets that would be usefull by class, for noob levels, mid levels and higher ranged levels. and gemmed them with enchanted stones that fit their classes. now, I see that effort and zulie, and cash going down the toilet. and there is certainly NO WAY i would dump any more real cash on IM separation drills just to attempt to salvage my ench stones and put them into newer jewlery. So the fact that we have to also change jewlery every 20 levels, means they wont be getting gemmed, nor having any ench stones put in them. No point wasting cash for somthing that is useless in 20 levels. or has to have $3.00 x 3 jewlery peices, or 9.00 more put into it to save the stone for the next 20 levels. Wonder if it occured to you devs that you could be hurting mall sales having new jelwery every 20 levels, instead of every 40-60 levels.

On the whole, the jelwery update seems great, except where things are being nerfed. , and / or jelwery is being changed entirely. For example, i had just made a beryl 7 set that i put into dazzlng pieces for events. Now, IF i read the notes correctly, the dazzling set is being changed to con !?!?!. so awsome. there goes bout a half a year of chem farming on my behalf. thanks.

As for the 'future' in this thread. I have to thank Genesis for doing some clarification here. What he posted of the PVM aspect seems as if the end result a year or 3 from now, might be worth looking into! When, and IF it occurs. (sorry too many years of dev promises to hold my breath.) I see that they state that the drops are still being worked on, in one sentance, but in another they state that part of the premium service will include drops. Ok so drops were nerfed horribly from a artisan and farming standpoint in march. And those of us who have hung in there waiting to see this finally FIXED, now we learn if we want those drops we have to PAY real cash for them????. next you will be selling crafting mats on the IM. Ive said it before, long ago when rose went evo, each drop was like a christmas present in our excigtement at the find. Now, we will probably never see diamond 3 (9), since gems come in a consumable / dirty form. and if we want drops we have to pay cash for them. Along with the other 'premium' content. Have to say ya lost me there. Ive spent 6 years defending gravity and rose and its developers. but really cant do so any more.

Also, i have to ask, in your plans for the future. what happened to your claims that you would be fixing un-utilized map areas, such as luna, or forest of wandering, or orlo? Or adding a B2 to prison, or dungeons in Gob caves (saw that addressed for the very distant future) or cave of the dead in DoD?? You said you would lure players to unused maps by fixing / addressing mobs as needed, fixing drops, and so on. but never did. the game has beautiful maps and such promise of more, that goes un utilized. and isnt going to be addressed in the next year???? from these notes you have no intention of increasing mobs on luna or orlo. or addressing any of the other issues that cause most of the areas to go unutilized ?? This makes me sad. and the game basically deserted.

I'll check back on rose periodically, but unless its OLD issues are addressed, i simply, after 6 years, cannot support it any longer. Time to look for a new 'home'.

[iFrozenBR]

In my opinion with these changes you will only lose players and discourage those who want to play

In my opinion the idea of paying to play is ridiculous and desperate. They will only have to lose it

And... When will come the new gears? (I'm anxiously waiting it xD)

Thanks

Edited by iFrozenBR, 04 November 2011 - 05:09 PM.

[TangoBaby86]

the other thing that occurs to me, and frustrates me to no end, is that every single year, or even 2 x per year, that I've played (6 ish years now?) the devs change something fundamental in the game, necessitating players to need skill and stat resets across multiple characters, or changing something fundamental to game play. things that are never an actual improvement to game play, but usually some type of nerf. (drops again, sorry my pet peeve.) But the ongoing fundamental changes make me think that this game is no better than an open beta, and, as such, they have no business charging players in any way shape or form to TEST things for them, so that they can go change things once more. Loosing real money based on changes is simply wrong. And i've supported the game via mall since Pay to play days, as many of us have.

[KingsBane]

Many players of rose are not 12yo males. This game is catering for one group with this planned pvp. Many more mature players and female players enjoy playing for other reasons than an ego trip. Meeting new friends partying and leveling enjoying the experiences along the way. Rose was a journey of adventure but you are trying to destry the best parts of rose ignoring females and anyone over 12

[Phish]

Pvp is still part of the game, and just because you personally don't take part in it doesn't mean no one else does. Some people play pvp because there is challenge where as pvm hardly offers any anymore I laugh when people refer to everyone who pvps as having an ego. Sure many of them do, but people can still like to compete without having an ego. Thats like saying everyone who plays sports is full of themselves. Seriously is playing a game of checkers with your friend is more egotistic than playing solitaire?



And there are plenty of female players who do take part in pvp.

[DoubleRose]

During November we will be offering Premium Accounts, this is very much like the ones offered for Ragnarok and Requiem. I am not going to cover all of the features, but some of the basics are Added EXP and Drops Rates, Additional Characters for an Account, Daily Bonuses and Access to the current Premium Storage. We will add features and content that connects with the Premium Accounts as time goes. This is the last of our big plans for the item mall, which is good news as much as it is just more item mall content.

Stopped reading after that, I'm sure I don't want to read the rest of their ideas anyway.

[shokwavez]

Having premium content isn't bad, but its how its different from other content which makes it sketchy.
It doesn't make sense to force players to party with only premium, or to make premium users stand out in some large significant way.
This doesn't mean that some content maybe limited or offered for just Premium Users.
For now the premium system is going to cover a few things that are basically Item Mall values you guys see and use.
We are adding in the ability to trigger through the quest system for a premium users, we have talked about daily quests for premium users or better rewarding daily quests for premium users and giving the same quests to non-premium.
Content like PvP or Leveling won't be for premium only, but with a small team its harder to keep moving forward on bigger projects if when they go out they don't off set the costs of them.
Its a balancing line and at times we may step to one side or the other.
Look at how RO and Requiem Premium/VIP accounts work and get an idea of what we are also aiming for.
http://www.playragna...vippackage.aspx
http://www.playrequi...iumPackage.aspx

There are differences between them and we won't be taking on the exact same model of one or the other but will make it fit to ROSE.

Have any of you guys even played this game...

[iFrozenBR]

Pvp is still part of the game, and just because you personally don't take part in it doesn't mean no one else does. Some people play pvp because there is challenge where as pvm hardly offers any anymore I laugh when people refer to everyone who pvps as having an ego. Sure many of them do, but people can still like to compete without having an ego. Thats like saying everyone who plays sports is full of themselves. Seriously is playing a game of checkers with your friend is more egotistic than playing solitaire?

I agree, is more interesting for me playing against players (PvP) than against computers (PvE)

Share experiences, techniques, and creating new friendships!

Definitely no comparison!

[Rukario]

The Premium Accounts will work, I've come up to that conclusion. If you guys played Ragnarok, you would understand.

Like Calanor said previously, everything available to a premium account will be available to free ones. But there are
special benefits for premium users, such as (in RO's instance,) NPCs that may give you +7 to your stats for 30 minutes
or +50% EXP for 30 minutes, and allowing you to travel back and forth to the NPC in order to get your bonuses. And this
isn't broken, considering the people ARE paying for this benefit, for however much.

Inb4 "They're just going to ruin leveling" ... If a person wants to reach 220 in 3 days, then so be it. It's not our concern.

---

As a Solo 220 Mage for PVM, I'm entirely uninterested in Orlo currently. And I feel that players will not buy Premium Service.

@LadyPsyber: If that's the case, then I'm done with ROSE. I'd much rather play Ragnarok.

Edited by Rukario, 05 November 2011 - 03:46 PM.

[CoffeeMuse]

the other thing that occurs to me, and frustrates me to no end, is that every single year, or even 2 x per year, that I've played (6 ish years now?) the devs change something fundamental in the game, necessitating players to need skill and stat resets across multiple characters, or changing something fundamental to game play. things that are never an actual improvement to game play, but usually some type of nerf. (drops again, sorry my pet peeve.) But the ongoing fundamental changes make me think that this game is no better than an open beta, and, as such, they have no business charging players in any way shape or form to TEST things for them, so that they can go change things once more. Loosing real money based on changes is simply wrong. And i've supported the game via mall since Pay to play days, as many of us have.

Tango, your earlier thread is just wow. It is horrible the way the devs keep destroying the game and the gear we spend time gathering. Like you said, even stuff from the item mall gets whacked. If anyone see the pattern that has been developing, the devs are sending the message that it's a bad idea to patronize the item mall, because even those things will (if the past is any lesson) be FUBARed. Whatever hard work we put into the game is just going to be trashed. Will they ever get it? Maybe after they have chased every last loyal player away from the game and it's crap. Its sad. Maybe you are right - abandon all hope all ye who pass this way, so the sign seems to read here.

Those who do not know thier history are doomed to repeat it!

Edited by CoffeeMuse, 05 November 2011 - 07:57 PM.

[TangoBaby86]

Tango, your earlier thread is just wow. It is horrible the way the devs keep destroying the game and the gear we spend time gathering. Like you said, even stuff from the item mall gets whacked. If anyone see the pattern that has been developing, the devs are sending the message that it's a bad idea to patronize the item mall, because even those things will (if the past is any lesson) be FUBARed. Whatever hard work we put into the game is just going to be trashed. Will they ever get it? Maybe after they have chased every last loyal player away from the game and it's crap. Its sad. Maybe you are right - abandon all hope all ye who pass this way, so the sign seems to read here.

Those who do not know thier history are doomed to repeat it!

on the other hand, IF they release enchanted stone boxes tuesday, it would be very smart move on thier part, so players can fix / repair the damage to their jewelery sets. and make new ones. what can i say. ive tried to look at other games but my love of rose still drags me back here.

However, most in game players do not read the forums unless they have an issue, and have no idea what is going on. Where as we can see the writing on the wall. Tuesday, after maintenance, there is going to be a huge uproar. Notice how the devs made sure they put the drop changes into the game at a time where the forums were down, so that players couldnt even rant, other than on facebook, where the bulk of the population never checks. And by the time the forums were back up, the uproar was mostly ended, or over with (coincidence???), and those that tried to get the devs attention on fb, as well as many other players, by then had just given up and left the game. And this time, like that time, i have noticed, as many of my other clan master freinds have as well, our clans are dwindling, and our clan forums people are telling us that they are headed to pservers, or one in particular, who listen to their player base, have updates, etc etc.

Edited by TangoBaby86, 06 November 2011 - 03:31 AM.

[Noone1981]

Pvp is still part of the game, and just because you personally don't take part in it doesn't mean no one else does. Some people play pvp because there is challenge where as pvm hardly offers any anymore I laugh when people refer to everyone who pvps as having an ego. Sure many of them do, but people can still like to compete without having an ego. Thats like saying everyone who plays sports is full of themselves. Seriously is playing a game of checkers with your friend is more egotistic than playing solitaire?



And there are plenty of female players who do take part in pvp.

Sure you don't need to participate in pvp. But the last year, the only thing that got addressed was pvp. Where are the pvm changes?(content, quests, ...)
You say there isn't a challenge in pvm, then make it more challenging by special quest lines with nice rewards.

Why is everyone almost pvping here?

• UW gear and other rewards, you can get honor by pvp only!
• There aren't many quests, so you are fast done with them all!

I only like pvm, since pvp in games like these aren't really fair. Ok you also need skill, but face it. If you don't have the best gear and you play this game occassionally for fun, you won't be good at pvp. That's why people like pvm. There are people that play the game who have jobs and households to attend too and not everyone has the time to play every day. So doing some questing or searching for your legendary gear is fun. But if the game can't provide anything for you to do after a while, except for pvp. You just stop playing...

[Rukario]

Sure you don't need to participate in pvp. But the last year, the only thing that got addressed was pvp. Where are the pvm changes?(content, quests, ...)
You say there isn't a challenge in pvm, then make it more challenging by special quest lines with nice rewards.

Why is everyone almost pvping here?

• UW gear and other rewards, you can get honor by pvp only!
• There aren't many quests, so you are fast done with them all!

I only like pvm, since pvp in games like these aren't really fair. Ok you also need skill, but face it. If you don't have the best gear and you play this game occassionally for fun, you won't be good at pvp. That's why people like pvm. There are people that play the game who have jobs and households to attend too and not everyone has the time to play every day. So doing some questing or searching for your legendary gear is fun. But if the game can't provide anything for you to do after a while, except for pvp. You just stop playing...

Nailed it right on the head. You should play Ragnarok.

Just saying. Same company, more content, still a lot of bots, but at least you have tons and tons of stuff to do. :|

Hell, I've had more entertainment on iRO than I have on ROSE in the last year. :x ... Eh, but I guess I should just mosey along now.

Edited by Rukario, 07 November 2011 - 09:54 AM.

[Phish]

Sure you don't need to participate in pvp. But the last year, the only thing that got addressed was pvp. Where are the pvm changes?(content, quests, ...)
You say there isn't a challenge in pvm, then make it more challenging by special quest lines with nice rewards.

Why is everyone almost pvping here?

• UW gear and other rewards, you can get honor by pvp only!
• There aren't many quests, so you are fast done with them all!

I only like pvm, since pvp in games like these aren't really fair. Ok you also need skill, but face it. If you don't have the best gear and you play this game occassionally for fun, you won't be good at pvp. That's why people like pvm. There are people that play the game who have jobs and households to attend too and not everyone has the time to play every day. So doing some questing or searching for your legendary gear is fun. But if the game can't provide anything for you to do after a while, except for pvp. You just stop playing...

The only pvp changes we've gotten in the past year were the small changes to the union war map in June. Thats it. The majority of updates we've gotten were item mall updates, with some interface, ui, client synchronization and a few bug fixes related to it.

In Pvm we've had drops screwed up horribly, slowly fixed but still far from perfect. We've had epic weapons introduced, King quest, and revamping of Adventurer Plains and the Valley of Luxem tower. It might not be much but I don't see where you see 'only pvp updates'.


I'm not against pvm updates, and I support making some challenging aspects of pvm. With slow development speed it's hard to please anyone sadly.

Edited by Phish, 07 November 2011 - 12:23 PM.

[Calanor]

I had to remove a few posts from this thread.

We have a community member who has had it be their mission to lie to you about what our plans are.
Even though we have stated that we want there to be a mixture of new PvP and PvM content, they are pushing this idea that we will only do PvP content.
Sadly I have tried as well as others but they refused to read anything and are just trying to push further lies to confuse the community.
They have lost their rights to post on the forums and I want to further clarify with you that the plans for 2012 is to not exclude 1 group of players over another.

We want the game to be a healthy balance of PvP and PvM and addressing the community wants and wishes.
We know that not every player is alike and not everyone likes PvP and there are some that have difference in ideas of what they want for PvM content.
We are going to work to give you a balance of both, and to do our best to not exclude one group or another, and to be honest about our plans.

It saddens me to think that I have to make a post like this again because some long standing community member has gotten it into their head to try and twist words and make up assumptions and rumors.
Hopefully you will be able to see through that and read my posts and take them for what they are in that there is a lot of plans and a lot of things we plan to do this next year.
You should read the original post and it should be a mixture of hope, anticipation, concern and fun.

[Noone1981]

Well I hope you are true to your words. I really am hoping.

Because as a PVM player it gets a little boring after the luna quests.

In Eldeon you got some repeatable quests for Valor points, but since you can't buy nice gear or so. It's kinda useless unless for an artisan.

You also got some repeatables at the Oblivian temple, those rewards are kinda nice, especially the golem quest reward.

As a PVM player I encourage you to write some long line quests(5 or more follow ups) with a nice rewards. (nice amount of Honor points or a jewel set you can gather at the last quests in the quest line, ...) . Just a suggestion.

I also hope if you are revamping some dungeons, like Ulverick, you remove the party requirement. Make the difficulty equal to the amount of players you enter the dungeon...

Hero quest is a nice story line, work it out further. You got whole luna/eldeon/orlo to fill with it