77 replies to this topic

[Kazu731]

I was merely demonstrating through my understanding of the points how absolutely insane and immature they are.

[zabmaru]

Please change things according to my personal preference so I can feel like a beautiful and unique snowflake.

[Maronu]

I was merely demonstrating through my understanding of the points how absolutely insane and immature they are.

All I'm seeing is circumstantial ad hominem, personal attack, and bandwagoning....
I expect a lot more from you guys. QQ

[Kazu731]

I do not mind resorting to ad hominem when the case is clearly in ruling of the favor of the normal-minded and the insane need a sort of reminder of what is acceptable and unacceptable.

I already made of certain bad ideas and I take solace in knowing that those arguing for those bad ideas are writhing in agony over how they want it to be.

[Maronu]

I do not mind resorting to ad hominem when the case is clearly in ruling of the favor of the normal-minded and the insane need a sort of reminder of what is acceptable and unacceptable.

I already made of certain bad ideas and I take solace in knowing that those arguing for those bad ideas are writhing in agony over how they want it to be.

Prince, I'd rather not get into a discussion on the idiosyncratic and relative meaning that we assign to things, so I apologize if I have offended your fragile sensibilities by deriving some pleasure from a game in a manner you consider to be aberrant and unacceptable. Let me also apologize on behalf of stamp collectors, collectors of xbox achievements, and collectors of antiques everywhere, who I am sure have also offended you.

That being said, be aware that if your strict elitist and intolerant view of what is acceptable attempts to infringe upon my personal elitist quirks, then you will need to be prepared to continue this discussion like a "big boy". I know you can do it.

Maronu, I'm glad you're back. I haven't seen you in-game since we talked a few days ago
Did you get my scrolls?

Sorry, Miname. And thanks. Missed you too. What character have you been on? Make sure you still have me added.

[Kazu731]

I AM EXTREMELY THREATENED AND SUFFICIENTLY ANGRY

Maronu I think your idea is bad because you don't want others to get the item purely out of the desire for a cosmetic which you hold to a candle. While rare items do have their allure in their looks like Kimarts and these balloons, you would deprive a newer round of players from having a nice fair shot at it because you hold attachment to it. I find it entirely selfish to say the least.

[Maronu]

I AM EXTREMELY THREATENED AND SUFFICIENTLY ANGRY

Maronu I think your idea is bad because you don't want others to get the item purely out of the desire for a cosmetic which you hold to a candle. While rare items do have their allure in their looks like Kimarts and these balloons, you would deprive a newer round of players from having a nice fair shot at it because you hold attachment to it. I find it entirely selfish to say the least.

It is selfish. And rather elitist really. And thank you for finally addressing the actual point, but I think your missing it. I don't care about the looks. Rename the new ones "WP balloon" or something. Did you read? Just let us tell the difference.

I mean, I missed some things I wanted while I was away. I don't believe I deserve to have those things released again. If I want something that I don't have in the game, I save up enough gold to get it. That's how I got almost all of my rare items. Including the trip balloon.

And imo, exclusive items and preserving rarity is not a bad thing. Elitism based upon items isn't bad either. It's good for the game! Have you ever been to gaiaonline? They categorize all the collectible items by when they came out, and the older ones cost a load of their currency because of how rare they are.

The items are desirable to a fairly decent portion of the population, so some members buy a whole bunch of new collectibles to sell so that they can obtain the old ones. That site even labels the items that are rereleased by generations like I suggested, and even when similar items are released people still want the old ones. Why should the mentality be completely different here if WP emphasizes the limited addition nature of what they release? I'm not the only person who collects rares in this game. Elitism in games leads to profits. It's true all across the board.

And on the subject of fairness, you have it reversed. Introducing new items that are the same as old isn't fair to the people who have the old items or really anyone who wants to obtain that old item. It just completely takes away from having it for anyone who cares.

Perhaps you can't see a players desire to collect rares as rational, but I would at least think you could see how exclusiveness gives some players a greater incentive or urgency to obtain something if they are guaranteed that is going to stay unique. Why should I upgrade my gear or collect anything if it's just going to be easier to do that later?

I wasn't trying to be mean, so forgive me if I was. I want to clarify that there are many old things that I'm missing in this game. Like medals and particular sets that I would like, but I don't want to be given the opportunity to obtain them if it means WP is introducing something that is exactly the same. I'm not trying to say I exclusively deserve everything.

My original argument was the same over the guardian issue. I wanted something different introduced with the same stats....

And yeah, Zabamaru is right about the snowflake thing. But I'd assume a lot of people enjoy suffering under such an illusion...

Edited by Maronu, 14 November 2011 - 10:59 PM.

[zabmaru]

I'm on my stupid iPod, so I'll have to keep it fairly 'tl;dr.
Really, if you're trying to collect rare gear just to collect rare gear. it seems like you're in the minority by far, which makes your suggestion seem incredibly frivolous.

I recommend Maplestory or TF2 for all your OMG SOOPUR RARE gear collection desires.

[igozuvi]

gravity brought slotted sunnies back to RO. NO RARE IS SAFE ANYMORE

my whole understanding of preserving rarity is that it is purely for monetary gain. that in itself can cripple an economy depending on the item. you said it yourself that it all leads to profits. the veterans get richer / the poor stay poor

collecting rares for the sake of rares is pretty esoteric, there are plenty of other rares that have not been re-released by WP that could satiate that need if one should so desire to. but i doubt anyone buys a rare not hoping it will net them tons of gold in the long run (unless it's soul bound or something)

i like looking kawaii regardless if others are the same kind of kawaii, so i cant really understand the thought behind it. even if something rare that i worked on was suddenly mass-produced, i would still feel a little proud that i got it while it was totally kewl and rare to have one

[Endbringer]

If the rarity of an item truly means anything to you, you're always welcome to go around buying all the balloons from people who obtain them. That way you can now say you have an entire collection of them!

If they refuse, guess you better work hard to come up with offers they just can't refuse!

[Kazu731]

While I do understand the points here, as I bought a pair of Kimart wings about six or seven months back--and while this item can have a much different argument made for it because it was in low quantity to begin with, has a nice use aside from looking cool, and was not available to everyone from the start--I know the feeling of ECSTATIC JOY AND HAPPINESS that comes with owning an item that you hold to be valuable in your mind not just because of what it does, but because of that tingly sensation of uniquehood and even how you'll be able to flaunt it to others.

That said, I cannot say that I can extend the argument any further than understanding of the feeling. If I were to even consider it, I'd say that those that buy the item with gold "don't deserve it" either because they don't capture the exact time and place that the item would represent, making it just a trophy which is an indignation to the item. Aside from that, even if I did overlook that, I don't say that I have the right to decide what the company running the game can do with the items and it brings me, personally, a sort of satisfaction to see a nod to what the players understand as a rare and valuable item. This is simply a matter of difference of opinion we can never agree on but I cannot support the notion that WarpPortal cater to a group that is dissatisfied with such an abstract idea rather than attempt to bring a bit of joy to those that may want the item.

[Miname]

I'm on my glorious iPod master race, so I'll have to keep it fairly 'tl;dr.
Really, if you're trying to collect rare gear just to collect rare gear. it seems like you're in the minority by far, which makes your suggestion seem incredibly frivolous.

I recommend Maplestory or TF2 for all your OMG SOOPUR RARE gear collection desires.

FTFY.

I can sympathize with one group of people affected by these events. And those are the players who legitimately farmed and saved enough gold for these ludicrously high priced "rare" items in the normal process of trying to improve their characters. It sucks when you put so much effort into something, just for it to be nerfed or re-released soon after. It kind of makes the idea of grinding for these items pointless if Warpportal keeps these events up. I predicted that the Trip Balloons would be re-released at some point in an event like this, so I'm honestly not surprised by this event at all. It was all just a matter of time.

Instead of flaming each other, try to understand each other's sides and realize who the real enemy is.

Spoiler

[Kazu731]

Yes, I highly sympathize with those wronged by having their favorite items given away in new events. I hate events. I hate GMs that interact with the community and take pains to deliver them items they did not have a chance to get. I hate these things and I hate fun.

IN CASE I WASN'T BEING CLEAR ENOUGH

I HATE EVERYTHING YOU JUST SAID, MINAME

AND I THINK YOU'RE AN ABSOLUTE chucklebuddy FOR STATING IT AS IF YOU'RE THE GRAND MINISTER OF SYMPATHY FOR THE POOR MASSES MISTREATED BY SOMETHING BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU BELONG TO A STUPID ELITIST GROUP THAT IS STUPID ENOUGH WITHOUT PRETENTIOUS MORONS TRYING TO GET INTO THE CLUB AS IT IS

[Miname]

Yes, I highly sympathize with those wronged by having their favorite items given away in new events. I hate events. I hate GMs that interact with the community and take pains to deliver them items they did not have a chance to get. I hate these things and I hate fun.

IN CASE I WASN'T BEING CLEAR ENOUGH

I HATE EVERYTHING YOU JUST SAID, MINAME

AND I THINK YOU'RE AN ABSOLUTE chucklebuddy FOR STATING IT AS IF YOU'RE THE GRAND MINISTER OF SYMPATHY FOR THE POOR MASSES MISTREATED BY SOMETHING BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU BELONG TO A STUPID ELITIST GROUP THAT IS STUPID ENOUGH WITHOUT PRETENTIOUS MORONS TRYING TO GET INTO THE CLUB AS IT IS

I only said I sympathize. I'm not taking any sides here. It would be hypocritical of me.

[Kazu731]

I only said I sympathize. I'm not taking any sides here. It would be hypocritical of me.

Your sympathy means the world to the handful people who take what they can get to boost their Napoleonic ego!

[Maronu]

While I do understand the points here, as I bought a pair of Kimart wings about six or seven months back--and while this item can have a much different argument made for it because it was in low quantity to begin with, has a nice use aside from looking cool, and was not available to everyone from the start--I know the feeling of ECSTATIC JOY AND HAPPINESS that comes with owning an item that you hold to be valuable in your mind not just because of what it does, but because of that tingly sensation of uniquehood and even how you'll be able to flaunt it to others.

That said, I cannot say that I can extend the argument any further than understanding of the feeling. If I were to even consider it, I'd say that those that buy the item with gold "don't deserve it" either because they don't capture the exact time and place that the item would represent, making it just a trophy which is an indignation to the item. Aside from that, even if I did overlook that, I don't say that I have the right to decide what the company running the game can do with the items and it brings me, personally, a sort of satisfaction to see a nod to what the players understand as a rare and valuable item. This is simply a matter of difference of opinion we can never agree on but I cannot support the notion that WarpPortal cater to a group that is dissatisfied with such an abstract idea rather than attempt to bring a bit of joy to those that may want the item.

I remember you are partial to the letter "D" and offended by "R". Would it have been completely disappointing and disgusting to see a number "2" after the name of the rereleased items, such as the new kimarts that came out? Wouldn't that preserve the uniqueness of your old ones in some way and also actually make the new ones unique as well? Those who consider the idea abstract or strange wouldn't be actually offended if WP decided to put numbers after items to indicate rereleases would they? I would imagine people who are indifferent would just ignore the numbers since they don't really care about that type of thing.

Btw, I remember someone megaphoning after kimarts were introduced. They wanted to buy Kimarts, but did not want any that were obtained illegally on THQ. I thought it was funny and wondered how you could possibly tell the difference. Not that I'm trying to use that as a point. I just find it slightly interesting now.

And when you say they don't deserve it because they don't capture it at the exact time, I have a bad feeling you are heading towards some sort of argument about how if we label one series/generation/set we should actually label all individual items in the order that they were obtained.

Is it really the same item? Philosophy... Space time worms...Speaking of abstract ideas... Am I the same person I was a few hours ago despite some new experiences? Is that where we are going with that, and do we need to go there?

And yeah, for those talking about monetary/game currency value, you could take the idea as simply a way of retaining some of that value for older items, which is something I see no problem with. Perhaps it wouldn't actually work, but if it did, wouldn't everyone enjoy that slight insurance of value? Subsequent released items would retain value in the same way by simply being numbered. Those uninterested in or unaffected by such a hierarchy of items can simply ignore it. No harm done.

And prince, don't misconstrue what I am saying by thinking that I am demanding that WP does anything. I just think numbering items would be a good and simple system (seen it work elsewhere) and fail to see how it really effects anyone who isn't interested. You seem to have the notion that seeing a particular group get something beneficial would somehow be a disservice to some 'majority' who is not affected. Are you threatened by the concept of relative deprivation or actual relative deprivation? I almost feel like you get a sort of 'satisfaction' from seeing my satisfaction from some items 'snuffed out' (to extend the candle metaphor). You keep throwing around words like normal and abstract, but again that's all relative.

How are the players with new balloons being brought joy by the balloons not being numbered or differentiated in some way? I would be happier to complete the event and get a unique balloon from this event than to complete it and get a balloon that is no different than a balloon from some old event.

Edited by Maronu, 15 November 2011 - 06:27 PM.

[Kazu731]

The numbering system is a fine idea and agree that I wouldn't care less if it were numbered but would be a distinction from the old ones. On the other hand that would be incredibly bureaucratic and annoying and a waste of time.

When I speak of the item representing the time and place, I mean that the value of the rarity comes from it being old and difficult to obtain. Kimarts have a certain allure because of their history. WHATEVER

[StormHaven]

Even though our balloons are exact the same in stats mines worth way more than yours cause it's from THQ. is all I'm reading out of this.

Edited by StormHaven, 15 November 2011 - 06:39 PM.

[GrapefruitGod]

Going to go afk in town with an antares neck

Get at me

[Kazu731]

My general assessment of the points was this:

A. More of an item I consider to be rare and unique lessens its value in terms of rarity
B. Therefore, an exactly the same item but a newer one rather than the old preserves the integrity of the rarity

My general thought was this:

A. Company releases old items so that more people can obtain them
B. Therefore, a lot of people are happy but those who like integrity in rarity are upset.

My general assumption would be this, from the company's point of view:

A. The ratio of upset players to happy players by result of this would be about 1:20
B. Even those upset about it don't have much more than some concept they like to be mad about
C. Therefore, this event is just fine

Edited by Kazu731, 15 November 2011 - 06:46 PM.

[Miname]

Going to go afk in town with an antares neck

Get at me

This gives me a great idea, actually.

[canajew]

This gives me a great idea, actually.

Antares neck event ^o^

[Vanille]

Going to go afk in town with an antares neck

Get at me

Antares neck sucks, you better get something better if you want to show off something.

[Miname]

Antares neck sucks, you better get something better if you want to show off something.

So moe

[Kazu731]

SOOOOO CUTE