70 replies to this topic

[IronPlushy]

So I'm starting up a new character, it's not my fault the expansion characters are so awesome, and this time I remembered to count how many text boxes you have to read to start the game. Between Sprakki? greeting you and Blade? giving you your first mission you must read 89 +/-3 text boxes. That is an alarming number. So my question is, is there a better way to do this and what way is that? I mean these text boxes do not stop bots, but I'm sure they have deterred hundreds of new players. Maybe a more intuitive training process, or a way to bypass the steps of making a new character.

[sayoko]

"im pro, let me enter to ragnarok online" i always choice this, even with my first char like 4 years ago

[Mowi]

All of that could indeed be shortened a lot. The images are nice but you still have to do a lot of reading.

[Xellie]

So I'm starting up a new character, it's not my fault the expansion characters are so awesome, and this time I remembered to count how many text boxes you have to read to start the game. Between Sprakki? greeting you and Blade? giving you your first mission you must read 89 +/-3 text boxes. That is an alarming number. So my question is, is there a better way to do this and what way is that? I mean these text boxes do not stop bots, but I'm sure they have deterred hundreds of new players. Maybe a more intuitive training process, or a way to bypass the steps of making a new character.

What would you think of shortening the training ground, and then making some of the more advanced things that you learn something that you can reaccess over time to refer to if you want to learn more about RO?

For example the class npcs, or the kafra / guard tutorial... what if there was a place new players could go to in order to seek information if they chose?

This is something that's been discussed in the fungineer forums, so input away!

[Agahim]

uh oh, generation ADHD complaining that they're not being entertained within 10sec of logging in.
how about taking another shot of ritalin before you start playing? will that fix the issue?

seriously now, the novice ground is perfectly fine. it teaches new players how to play and old players how to be patient.
they already took out the quests for the change to first classes, to make it faster. those were cool!

Edited by Agahim, 30 November 2011 - 07:06 PM.

[Luckywhiterabbit]

yeah, gamers these days don't like to read anything. You have to adjust your game to the amount of 'derp' necessary to appeal to them 9_9

[Xellie]

uh oh, generation ADHD complaining that they're not being entertained within 10sec of logging in.
how about taking another shot of ritalin before you start playing? will that fix the issue?

seriously now, the novice ground is perfectly fine. it teaches new players how to play and old players how to be patient.
they already took out the quests for the change to first classes, to make it faster. those were cool!

Umm as an old player most of us grinded 343m exp without turn ins at a max of 10mil / hour.... I think old players don't need to be taught patience.

But seriously, there's little good from forcing new players into killing fabres all the way to 10/10 along side many many bots.

[Agahim]

Umm as an old player most of us grinded 343m exp without turn ins at a max of 10mil / hour.... I think old players don't need to be taught patience.

But seriously, there's little good from forcing new players into killing fabres all the way to 10/10 along side many many bots.

you're exaggerating. the quests and stuff already get you 90% done, you have to do little to no "grinding" at all in order to get out of the novice ground.

on the bot part, however i agree with you. but is the "bots scaring off new players"-problem fixed when we shorten the novice ground and introduction quests?

probably just as much as taking aspirin against your headache when you have a brain tumor.

Edited by Agahim, 30 November 2011 - 08:52 PM.

[Xellie]

you're exaggerating. the quests and stuff already get you 90% done, you have to do little to no "grinding" at all in order to get out of the novice ground.

on the bot part, hoever i agree with you. but is the "bots scaring off new players"-problem fixed when we shorten the novice ground and introduction quests?

probably just as much as taking aspirin against your headache when you have a brain tumor.

I dunno, I had to spend a good 30mins in there when I did it on valk and I wanted to kill myself really. I was going to make a priest so I could go find real new players to help, but after that, then heading off to try and grind in the rest of the game, I just shut it down and was like "this sucks".

Although I agree that new players need to go through it at least once, being an older player I know that I could level myself faster outside of the training ground. It's just unnecessary hassle when I just wanna get on with my new character and on to the fun part!

[Clogon]

The fact that the "archer" choise doesn't bring you to the archer guild gets a lot of new archer players lost too. =/

[CeruleanGamer]

I remember when I was an Archer 6 years ago that I had to gather trunks just to job change. Now all I need to do is level 10/10 and I'm ready to be an Archer no problem.

I miss the first class job change quests. They might be tedious but they really gave some variety on how each class is played and gives them a nice introduction.

Edited by CeruleanGamer, 30 November 2011 - 09:26 PM.

[sayoko]

I remember when I was an Archer 6 years ago that I had to gather trunks just to job change. Now all I need to do is level 10/10 and I'm ready to be an Archer no problem.

I miss the first class job change quests. They might be tedious but they really gave some variety on how each class is played and gives them a nice introduction.

whaaaaaaaaaaat? they removed the job quests for first class????? omg........

[Rutana]

Some first class job quests really were nice, such as Swordman or Archer.
But for new players, some were pretty bad and Renewal didn't helped here.
Collecting 1k zeny for Merchants? Terrible waste for a NEW player - these could be some usefull pots instead!
Mage Quest? A desaster.. I remember as I wanted to change to mage and had problems with the quest. I traveled all the way to prontera by foot to get some milk and spent my whole money on a red gemstone, since I thought it was needed for the quest. I didn't knew how to take on the machine, since it refused to react on my clicks, and thought I might have to drop the loot into it - loosing the red gemstone to a looter immedeatly. If there wouldn't have been a nice knight in the mage guild mixing me the solution, I maybe would've gave up on the quest o.O
Thief Quest? Extremly boring and tedious...
Acolyte Quest? Don't wanna know how many players lost themselfs in the woods... XD
For an old player, knowing how the game works and all, these quests were short and nice. But for a new player, they weren't that easy - and Renewal concentrated on beeing more new-player-oriented and friendly.

I think it's not so nice that the class guides in the training ground won't teleport you anymore, but the eden guide... I think that could be handled differently.

[IronPlushy]

Saying the game used to be more difficult is not a valid argument for keeping the game the way it is. This is the same exact thing you jackasses did the last time I offered suggestions. You said the game was much worse before, and that somehow justified the way things are now. What is your problem? Why are you so against new players? I really want to know what makes you think a new player will read 89 text boxes before they even enter the training grounds? Are you retarded? It is mind boggling how stupid you people are. I'm mainly pointing out Agahim as the king idiot.

Agahim you are so stupid it's depressing. New players do not give a about the way things used to be. You are so blind to the plight of new players. You expect people to be patient for no reason. You don't even listen. You don't even read suggestions, you just say they're wrong. New players will not tolerate the slog through to the training grounds. They have no emotional attachment to play this game. They have no reason to continue once they get bored. You are just so goddam ignorant.

NEW PLAYERS WILL NOT CONTINUE PLAYING IF THEY GET BORED.

I said you have to go through 89 walls of text to start the training grounds, and you say that training grounds isn't a grind it's easy. Can you even read because judging by your response you can't. You can't even argue, you just say things. You're a mindless retard. Keep saying new players have adhd, that really helps improve the opening sequence. The training grounds isn't the problem, it's everything before and after them that's the problem.



I'm putting this part aside and I guarantee your response will ignore it. I guarantee you will not read it and make a comment that proves you did not read it.
The training grounds are fine. You are given easy missions, you are given plenty of novice potions, flywings, butterfly wings, and kafra tickets. All this is very good. You get to test the 6 main classes before you play them. With a little bit of grinding and completing all the training ground missions you are at 10/10 and ready for your new class. You get a warp to whatever job guild you want and it even says what job pertains to each town. Even though the archer warp really doesn't.
All of this is really solid and for the most part prepares you for starting the game.

I feel if the amount of text boxes could be cut in half, and extra emphasis would be placed on getting to Eden Group and doing the turn in missions, in addition to emphasizing using the map to find places to hunt, then that's a good start.

[Agahim]

no need to get all emotional on me, plushy.
ever considered an anger management course?

lots of reading and long introductions are very common, i might even say "standard" in rpgs and mmorpgs. people who start playing such a game kinda ought to know what they engage with. the introduction in RO really isn't all that long, and it teaches new players the basics.

RO is the kind of game that demands you to research a crapload of information in order to be played efficently. i've been playing RO for about 9 years now, and i still can spend hours of reading up information about the game. if you're already scared off by an introduction of like 5min of reading you will not last very long in this game, and in the end it doesn't matter if such people leave instantly or a day later.

the introductions are perfectly fine. there are way worse things to be considered when it comes to make new players stay.

[morphine]

[mouth-foaming rant]

You are, as always, a charming person. I'm so glad you didn't just quit the game and instead chose to contribute to it and the community in an overwhelmingly positive way so that it can be a better product for everyone involved. That's certainly the way to get things improved. Everyone should follow this example.

[IronPlushy]

You are, as always, a charming person. I'm so glad you didn't just quit the game and instead chose to contribute to it and the community in an overwhelmingly positive way so that it can be a better product for everyone involved. That's certainly the way to get things improved. Everyone should follow this example.

you guys would prefer that absolutely nothing changes, I mean that's every argument against me is to leave everything the same. I tried to be positive about suggesting change, go read my earliest posts, you -_-tards don't pay attention when people make reasonable level headed arguments

[morphine]

you guys would prefer that absolutely nothing changes, I mean that's every argument against me is to leave everything the same. I tried to be positive about suggesting change, go read my earliest posts, you -_-tards don't pay attention when people make reasonable level headed arguments

I think you are having communication issues, personally. And every time someone says something you disagree with, you start needlessly spewing bile all over the place. I don't see a point in having a discussion with anyone like that personally. Why try to find a solution or compromise or even have a debate over an issue with someone like that?

[IronPlushy]

I DON'T MAKE A COHERENT ARGUMENT? What were the counter suggestions?

1. Take ritalin

2. Add more derp

3. The traing grounds are fine

Yeah I'm the one who has communication problems, I'm surprised you three can dress and feed yourselves, let alone operate a computer.

[Oda]

Leave the personal attacksat home folks. I was enjoying the discussion up to that point.

[Anchors]

Er... Looking past the obvious mutual grudge between the what appears to be a classic case of explosively unstable bipolarity and a passive aggressive furry, when I came back to RO, I read through the whole damn nub grounds tutorial (including the optional Kafra dialogue).

I don't know that all the NPCs really have material that needs to be cut, and I agree with Agahim that it seems that what strikes some as a laborious introductory sequence is actually pretty standard... not to mention a lot of the dialogue is flavor dialogue giving the NPCs a little (emphasis on "little") bit of personality...

... but I can very clearly understand Plushy's point of view when speaking to that Kafra NPC, which takes fifteen windows before you get to optional dialogue (I just hit "Cancel" there) which you will accidentally click to see while you're just hitting enter unless you either count to fifteen or are paying attention and are awake enough to stop yourself from hitting enter that sixteenth time.

That said, I dunno that the number eighty-nine needs to be cut down significantly on the whole, but a couple NPCs could be a little less loquacious.

Lastly, as I seem to find myself doing often enough around here, I'd agree with morphine's opinion on the topic. You know, had he expressed an opinion. But he didn't. So I don't. *shrug* (For those of you who don't understand the context of "implied subtext" (and that's redundant on purpose), I don't understand where he said that nothing needed changing...)

[Oda]

I think that perhaps having more image pop ups and less wordy dialogue would be a good idea, optimally we'd have some kind of pop up youtube window that would show new players what to do. There needs to be much more of a narrative/quest "hook" that will catch people coming to the game.

[Anchors]

The few image pop ups that were there were cute. I dunno that my computer could handle a video popping up in the middle of all that, though >.>

[Oda]

The few image pop ups that were there were cute. I dunno that my computer could handle a video popping up in the middle of all that, though >.>

It'll be full motion video, we'll hire the guys who did Command and Conquer 1

[Rutana]

I think a video could be the wrong way... that could completly destroy the mood.
Little animations (2 pictures repeating would be enough) could come in handy much more and result less problems.
I still think that the dialoges need a revamp, especially on the class explaining section, ESPECIALLY the extended Classes, which are poorly made.
I also agree with the Kafra, which is kinda annoying... ^^;
On the other hand, these informations are important to new players, when I see that some new players still have questions if they're done with Training Grounds...

(And I guess another look at my idea of a second training ground couldn't hurt... but that belongs in the fungi section ^^)


Additionally...
Please, Plushy, try to work on your manners...
Shouting and insulting never helps.
Try to stay calm and friendly and people start to react calm and friendly and are much more open to suggestions - but also hear other players out.
Noone likes to get insulted though, so if you start on that level, don't wonder if people getting angry and stop listening to you in other topics as well.