70 replies to this topic

[htperkins]

It'll be full motion video, we'll hire the guys who did Command and Conquer 1

http://www.youtube.c...F41F6A6660D4BE4

Wait, is that authentic? From the actual game?

That guy is on LSD. I felt like I just went on a magical trip with him.

[Anchors]

It'll be full motion video, we'll hire the guys who did Command and Conquer 1

Yeah, my plans to stay on RO for another decade will quickly disintegrate with my CPU even with just that. /sob

@Rutana: I dunno if Oda was being serious, but I like the two-picture "animation" suggestion. It's worked with adorable success elsewhere~

[Kadnya]

Would it be possible for RO to take control of your character for a bit? Lots of quests could gain a bit more narrative if such thing was possible. And training grounds could be benefited too. For example, you would see your chara doing certain actions while an explanation appears, maybe in the yellow text GMs use when they pm you...

[renouille]

I mean these text boxes do not stop bots, but I'm sure they have deterred hundreds of new players.

The text boxes are not intended to stop bots. Is there evidence of new players being deterred by them (the text boxes), or is it just speculation?

[IronPlushy]

The text boxes are not intended to stop bots. Is there evidence of new players being deterred by them (the text boxes), or is it just speculation?

How would someone prove that?

[Anchors]

I think the more appropriate question is, why would anyone think they were for anything other than their stated purpose of introducing new players to the game?

[Oda]

How would someone prove that?

We are able to tell how far new players get in the game and if they get discouraged. Compared to how the novice training grounds used to be there is a lot more useful information being presented to new players but once out of the training grounds there isn't a lot of guidance...the eden group helps a lot but there are still a lot of things about building a character/playing a class that are difficult to tell to players who do not know about irowiki's guides.

[Oda]

Lets get past that shall we?

[morphine]

I was originally going to reply to the subject at hand, then got to the rant and didn't feel in the mood to anymore, so I went to make dinner instead. Now it's between replying to the subject at hand and doing the dishes, which is a very easy choice.

So anyway, a lot of points that are somewhat disorganized:

While I'm aware that there are impatient players (and yes, people being simply impatient is something valid to consider IMO), I don't think making everything in the game quick and easy is the best solution, even if a lot of players, especially new players, seem to groan at the idea. People so impatient that they can't handle the training grounds probably aren't going to play for long anyway. RO isn't the kind of game that thrives on people spending a week in it and moving on.

The option to skip training grounds completely. It's nice for vets, yes, but it's also very tempting for those new (impatient) players, who start the game with no levels, no items, no idea what to do when they get out there and it ends up being much harder for them. Perhaps if it was more persuasive about new players going through the training, it would be fine to bring back the option to skip it.

Having more information outside of the grounds would likely help a lot. Kind of a different subject, but whatever. Impatient people likely aren't going to read the dialogue anyway until they realize they need those instructions for something. Things like upgrading, using cards, class-specific tutorials would be good.

Angry man-eating Fabres are a pain when trying to talk to NPCs outside. There's a lot more talking outside now. Having to skip dialogue that is intended to be useful for new players because an insect is gnawing at your chubby little legs is kind of bad.

On the free servers. Always tons of bots. They affect things a lot, especially in that tiny area. It's like going to a restaurant and getting seated between an open sewer and a mob of starving cats. It definitely needs to be addressed by Gravity.

Yes, more cute illustrations would be nice. Instructional illustrations, as well as NPC illustrations. I don't think video is the best route. It'd be a nice, doable way to break up the reading as well as making it easier to understand how to do things, since RO is a bit limited with what it can do to teach people things.

This is a more personal thing, but aside from teaching new players the basics, it would be nice if training grounds hooked people a little better. People get surprisingly patient when they're interested, after all. This probably sounds odd, but with RPGs in general, I found it was easiest to get lured in with good old fashioned tragedy. No, seriously. Either funny or depressing always worked well to overcome the just-skip-through-the-dialogue-itis. Kill more NPCs. XD

Edited by morphine, 01 December 2011 - 06:20 PM.

[IronPlushy]

What if their was a quiz you took when you started, covering what is learned in the training grounds? A quiz any veteran could pass but new players would either have to research, or they opt out and do the training grounds. If new players research the quiz then they have already learned what they need. Like this....

1. Where can Eden Teleporters be found?
A. near the entrance of any major town

2.Where do flywings warp you to?
A.a random area on the map

3.What hotkey brings up your stats and equipped gear?
A. Alt+Q

It covers the basic item usages, the locations of vital NPCs, and essential hotkeys like map, skills, stats, inventory.

If you pass the quiz you are given warp to any town, if you fail or opt out you get like 200 novice red potions. You can opt out at any point so new players don't have to get every question wrong to proceed.

Edited by IronPlushy, 01 December 2011 - 06:51 PM.

[Anchors]

Interesting idea, but I dunno if that's how a new player would want to start a game - with a pop quiz X_x

[IronPlushy]

Interesting idea, but I dunno if that's how a new player would want to start a game - with a pop quiz X_x

Did you even read the post? You can opt out of it, I said that twice. Learn to read.

[Anchors]

I did, as a matter of fact. The introduction to the game would be a pop quiz. I don't recall commenting about being unable to opt out. (Would the first thing to go through your mind somehow not be "what the hell kind of game is this?")

What was that you were saying about learning to read, again?

[IronPlushy]

I did, as a matter of fact. The introduction to the game would be a pop quiz. I don't recall commenting about being unable to opt out. (Would the first thing to go through your mind somehow not be "what the hell kind of game is this?")

What was that you were saying about learning to read, again?

You know you're wrong. And games like, I don't know, Morrowind, start with a quiz, one of the best selling RPGs ever. You just have nothing better to say so you disagree with me. You said something that people don't have to do is a problem? See why you're a retard?

[renouille]

How would someone prove that?

You tell me. (Or listen to Oda.)

Your argument is at least partially predicated on the assumption that too many text boxes have, in your words, "deterred hundreds of new players." If you can't convincingly demonstrate that this is true, it would have been better to leave it out altogether.

[Anchors]

You know you're wrong. And games like, I don't know, Morrowind, start with a quiz, one of the best selling RPGs ever. You just have nothing better to say so you disagree with me. You said something that people don't have to do is a problem? See why you're a retard?

I think you may have just indicated my counterargument yourself - "one of the best selling RPGs ever." Are you sure Morrowing just isn't an exception? Give me some substantial supporting data to work with.

I can't say I have all that much experience with other RPGs outside of RO, but most of the MMORPGs I've played, if they have a quiz at all, have it integrated into the tutorial, not as the introductory "face" of the game. As I tried to put politely without outright calling you stupid, I don't know that a quiz makes for a particularly good first impression for much of anything, regardless of the content (which a new player will never see if they're somehow scared away from the game).

But rather than continuing to support the points you made in your first post or attempting to reach any kind of compromise with someone who has to put on airs about pro skills like literacy, I think I'll take morphine's implied advice and step out before some of your figurative bile gets on my metaphorical shoes.

[IronPlushy]

You say the quiz is a deterrent to new players, but when i said 89 walls of texts was a deterrent I was wrong. You say this game is so deep that only someone with the patience to read 89 text boxes will stay anyway, but somehow a quiz with 7 easy questions is just too much. Either 89 walls of text are a deterrent or a quiz is a deterrent, you can't have it both ways. You can't. You have proven your own stupidity. They can't both be deterrents.

I am dying to see how a retard will twist this around.

[shurareki]

I dont think a quiz would be a good way to start off a game especially an MMO even if you could opt out. what about a tutorial like kad said but a bit different. like with most mmo's where the game takes over your cursor and shows you how to click on a monster or turn the camera zoom in and stuff then you have to copy that to continue. the thing i think is needed the most is a party tutorial something that shows the player what the party screen is for and that you can use the window to heal buff party members without having to click on them. or how to organize a party most people just dump skill points in to basic skills without actually knowing what they do so like every skill point that you put into basic i think a window should pop up and say you now have this ability eg. you can now use emotes!
i dont know maybe that's making it to simple its just a suggestion.

[Luckywhiterabbit]

I think a quiz is a good idea actually.

"Have you played this game before?"
y/n

"If that's the case, then you'll be able to answer my questions right?"
y/n

*insert questions in random order here*

[IronPlushy]

I think a quiz is a good idea actually.

"Have you played this game before?"
y/n

"If that's the case, then you'll be able to answer my questions right?"
y/n

*insert questions in random order here*

JFC someone agreed with me, I hope I didn't fall asleep at the computer and this is some lucid dream.

*worships*

Those would be good opening questions. Very straightforward. I feel the questions should be at a minimum, but still help to examine a players basic knowledge of game mechanics. Ask them about flywings, Eden Teleporters, Kafra employees, and the basic hotkeys, stats, inventory, skills, and map, 7 easy questions. If they get one wrong the quiz is over and they get like 200 novice reds.

[Xellie]

Learn to read.

See why you're a retard?

You have proven your own stupidity.
I am dying to see how a retard will twist this around.

Come now, this can't be conducive toward creating a discussion where ideas will be taken serious, can it?

When I want to put forward ideas to change RO, the last thing I do is insult people killing any respectability as a person and devolving the thread in which I have put forward my idea and created the discussion, into a flamewar.


What you're saying is good feedback and it is something that needs addressing, but I'm sure that if the torrent of abuse continues, this is another thread on the pyre.

[IronPlushy]

stay on topic

[ShionTheBlack]

stay on topic

No, stop insulting people.

[Zinja]

IMHO the text/information can be refined to deliver only the bare minimum information just enough to get started.it can be conveyed in simpler terms with a lot less dialogue.

KISS

Keep It Short Simple

Edited by Zinja, 01 December 2011 - 10:37 PM.

[Xellie]

stay on topic

If that's what you want, prove it by putting right the upset you've caused thus far in your thread and re-railing it in a constructive manner.

Otherwise all you're gonna do is cause conflict - and unless you're some kind of elaborate troll, I'm sure that's not what you're setting out to do.