70 replies to this topic

[Helios0]

It might be nicer having an Information resource inside the game after you leave the novice grounds then having to cram all that info in the 1st 10 min of playing...



like having "Know-it-All" NPC's in towns and in Eden to answer "Frequently Asked Questions" that some nubs have


or having info on stuff that people wonder about once they get out there like..
-where do i level?
-How do i get back to morroc?
-How do i change jobs?
-How do i Open a BUY SHOP?
-I Have BUY SHOP Vouchers. Why don't i see the skill in my Skill Tree?
-Where do i buy Items (tool shop)?
-How do i form a party?
-What is the group finder?
-this game has mail????????
-I found this strange place called an auction house why doesn't anyone ever use it?
-how is loot priority determined?
-Why arent i getting as much exp from monsters 10 levels higher or 30 levels lower than me?
-Whats a Kafra?
-What is Eden?
-Why is there a giant robot in south prontera field killing me while i kill porings?
-What stats are important to my class?
-How do i reset my skills?
-How do i reset my Stats?
-How do i Get Married?
-How do i Divorce this loser?
-What is WoE?
-What is an MVP?
-Where do i Start the dungeon Access Quest for X Dungeon?
-Are these zenny selling sites legit?
-How do i Whisper someone?
-How do i Get & Care for a Cute-Pet?

im hungry time for dinner..
neways yeah.. training grounds could really be simplified and improved imo. this game doesn't have the easiest learning curve. Theres a lot of things people don't know are out there unless they look it up.. or have someone tell them about it..

Edited by Helios0, 01 December 2011 - 10:50 PM.

[IronPlushy]

Believe my last post was directly on topic until you and 2 other people came in and derailed the thread again.

Edited by IronPlushy, 01 December 2011 - 11:22 PM.

[ShionTheBlack]

Believe my last post was directly on topic until you and 2 other people came in and derailed the thread again.

Why do you expect people to talk with you or take you seriously when all you do is act rude and uneducated. Also, I just made a new character, and most of those text boxes contain roughly only 2 sentences. That is hardly equivalent to a "wall of text" as you put it. It takes about 5 minutes to fully read through all of those text boxes, and almost all of them provide relevant information for new players. And if you don't wish to read them it takes all of about a minute to skip them by pressing enter.

[IronPlushy]

Why do you expect people to talk with you or take you seriously when all you do is act rude and uneducated. Also, I just made a new character, and most of those text boxes contain roughly only 2 sentences. That is hardly equivalent to a "wall of text" as you put it. It takes about 5 minutes to fully read through all of those text boxes, and almost all of them provide relevant information for new players. And if you don't wish to read them it takes all of about a minute to skip them by pressing enter.

Who the hell are YOU?

[ShionTheBlack]

Who the hell are YOU?

I thought we were being on topic?

[IronPlushy]

I thought we were being on topic?

I think you're an alt account of someone who said they were done with this thread, I saw you in that other thread were you said it's easy for new players to trans because you did it, and went on to say you had played for years and were in a guild.

[Xellie]

I think you're an alt account of someone who said they were done with this thread, I saw you in that other thread were you said it's easy for new players to trans because you did it, and went on to say you had played for years and were in a guild.

That's not a way to speak to someone contributing to the discussion is it?! Sometimes people will disagree with you, try to work with it instead of destroying the conversation ):

[IronPlushy]

That's not a way to speak to someone contributing to the discussion is it?! Sometimes people will disagree with you, try to work with it instead of destroying the conversation ):

Everyone that contributes to any of my suggestion threads tries to destroy it. Every time I make a suggestion, a swarm of veterans come in and say nothing needs to be changed about the game, and then fly to the thread and cry how GTB card is broken, or Super Novices aren't strong enough.

[ShionTheBlack]

I think you're an alt account of someone who said they were done with this thread, I saw you in that other thread were you said it's easy for new players to trans because you did it, and went on to say you had played for years and were in a guild.

So now your paranoid on top of everything else. This is my ONLY Warp Portal account, this is the name of my main character, whom you can find on Ymir, playing at this very second. I am neither an alt account nor a troll. I Have never said I played for years, nor did I ever say I was in a guild. What I did say was that I played for a while in 2004. I gave you my background because I'd hoped you'd understand that there are people that have intrinsically different viewpoints on things than yourself in the hopes that you would understand that people weren't disagreeing with you for the sake of disagreement but rather because we simply don't feel the same way that you do.

[Xellie]

Everyone that contributes to any of my suggestion threads tries to destroy it. Every time I make a suggestion, a swarm of veterans come in and say nothing needs to be changed about the game, and then fly to the thread and cry how GTB card is broken, or Super Novices aren't strong enough.

Understandable, but I am on yourside here because I think the training grounds are hateful. RO isn't perfect, there are things that vets will defend and things they want changed too.

I don't want to put into the conversation too much, but I do want to read on what is said here before I go on my next adventure attempting to take on a new character on Ygg.

The thing is, if you insult people, they get defensive and the topic will go nowhere, see?

For what it's worth supernovices are horrible and a waste of time, and GTB isn't that terrible, just that the GMs haven't taken steps to preserve it's rareness.

Edited by Xellie, 01 December 2011 - 11:47 PM.

[IronPlushy]

So now your paranoid on top of everything else. This is my ONLY Warp Portal account, this is the name of my main character, whom you can find on Ymir, playing at this very second. I am neither an alt account nor a troll. I Have never said I played for years, nor did I ever say I was in a guild. What I did say was that I played for a while in 2004. I gave you my background because I'd hoped you'd understand that there are people that have intrinsically different viewpoints on things than yourself in the hopes that you would understand that people weren't disagreeing with you for the sake of disagreement but rather because we simply don't feel the same way that you do.

The reason everyone has a different background than me is because there are like no new players anymore.

Edited by IronPlushy, 01 December 2011 - 11:45 PM.

[ShionTheBlack]

The reason everyone has a different background than me is because there are like no new players anymore.

Logic Fallacy. All new players are not going to have the same background and believe the same things you do, and it is both an unreasonable and irrational jump in logic to conclude that.

Edited by ShionTheBlack, 02 December 2011 - 12:03 AM.

[IronPlushy]

Logic Fallacy. All new players do not believe the same things you do, and it is both an unreasonable and irrational jump in logic to conclude that.

I didn't say they did. When did I say that? Are you inferring things? Are you some kind of detective?
but I haven't seen any new players posting who are still playing.

[ShionTheBlack]

I didn't say they did. When did I say that? Are you inferring things? Are you some kind of detective?
but I haven't seen any new players posting who are still playing.

I edit my post to be more clear. Beliefs are based on a persons background. Saying that new players have a different background is nebulous and means nothing. Furthermore, why do you think new players must be on the forums? A very small amount of Ragnaroks user base even comes to the forums much less posts.

[ShionTheBlack]

In order to further this discussion, I've taken the time to create a transcript of the text menu's in the training ground. It should give everyone a common bases for discourse.

[Sprakki]
Hello there! Welcome to the world of Ragnarok online. My name is Sprakki and I'm in charge of giving you basic gameplay tips. Click on the [Next] button or press [Enter] to continue.

[Sprakki]
First you need to learn the very basics of controlling your character. All the basic moves, selection of items, and attacks us the left click on the mouse.

-! Info !-
Click on the ground to move the character. Attacking monsters and conversations with the people of this world can be done by simply clicking on them.

[Sprakki]
First off, try moving around. Do you see that wooden bridge to your right?

[Sprakki]
Walk over to that bridge and theres a castle used as the Training Center. I will be waiting for you inside that castle. Please come to the castle by yourself.

[Sprakki]
Great! Now you know how to move and talk to others, right?

[Sprakki]
The Training Center is prepared for novices just like you. You are going to be trained to get used to the basics of the Game.

[Option Menu]

Begin training

[Sprakki]
I will guide you to the Novice Training Center. Inside, Instructor 'Brade' will be waiting to speak to you

[Sprakki]
Instructor 'Brade' will help you after words. Please, go see him.

-You received a quest 'Novice training ground -1' from Sprakki. Please check the quest info. Window.-

[Instructor Brade]
Great. You've completed the given quest successfully, so I will reward you with experience points.

[Instructor Brade]
Experience points you've earned from hunting or finishing quests can be checked by tracking the EXP bar, located at upper-left side of the display. Take these, Basic equipments and recovery potions.

[Instructor Brade]
In the upper left Basic Info. Window, press the 'item' icon to open the Item Window. The item window is divided into...

[Instructor Brade]
3 sections: consumable items, equipment and other items. If you want to use or equip items, just double-click on the item or drag them into the Equipment window.

[Instructor Brade]
Try to put on at least 4 of the equipments I gave you. Put those shoes on, wear those clothes, and arm yourself with that weapon you maggot.

[Instructor Brade]
You are all set. You are coming along just fine.

[Instructor Brade]
Here's some Fly Wings and Butterfly Wings as a reward. You don't need these in the Training Ground, but they will come in handy later.

[Instructor Brade]
Next, are Hot Keys. Press the F12 key on your keyboard. A box with 9 slots will pop up.

[Instructor Brade]
Drag on the right corner of the Hot Key Window and you will be able to see the other pages of the Hot Key.

[Instructor Brade]
The F1 to F9 keys are the designated hotkeys. Just drag a skill or an item onto the Hot Key Window and press a corresponding key to use them right away.

-! Info !-
You can register a skill or item to the Hot Key Window by just dragging them onto the hotkey Slot.

-! Info !-
Registered skills or items can be used/equipped by just pressing the corresponding key.

-! Info !-
You can customize the Hot Key to use any keys you please as the Hot Key by changing the Shortcut configuration in the options menu..

-! Info !-
Register skills and items that you use often so that you can use them easily.

[Instructor Brade]
The last part is how to use Skills. But before that, you need to learn something first.

[Instructor Brade]
Somewhere in this room there is someone named jinha. Find Jinha and learn the [First Aid] skill from him.

[Instructor Brade]
Your lesson is after that. Go find Jinha and learn the [First Aid] skill. Then come back to me.

[Jinha]
Hello! How can I help you?

[Option Menu]

I want to learn how to use the [First Aid] Skill.

[Jinha]
That's right. First Aid is the skill used to convert SP into HP when you are in danger.

[Jinha]
It's recovery amount is small. Still, it will help you not faint from a critical hit.

[Jinha]
You can open the Skill Window by pressing the skill button in the Basic Window. Hot Key is ALT +S. Why don't you try this skill?

[Jinha]
Good, now you know how to use the First Aid Skill, you have to move on to the next step. Go back to Instructor Brade and show him what you've learned here.

[Instructor Brade]
Now you've learned the [First Aid] Skill. Just as I told you before, by registering the First Aid Skill onto the Hot Key Window, you can use the skill fast and Easy.

[Instructor Brade]
And that's it, that's all I can teach you. You see the exit to the west? Move onto the next room and there will be another instructor waiting for you.

[Instructor Brade]
We will be seeing each other soon enough. But for now, go to the room to the west and get more information.

[Instructor Brade]
You've come along fine this far. This is not much, but take this as a reward.

[Chocolat]
I will tell you about the people you will be seeing in Town. There are many kinds of people in town and some of them will be helpful to know.

[Chocolat]
There are a lot of people in town, but among them, these people are the most important to know.

[Chocolat]
They are [Kafra] agents standing right behind me and their rival company the [Cool Event]. When you visit a town for the first time you should talk to Information [Soldier].

[Chocolat]
Well then, let's hear from each of them. Start by talking to the [Kafra] agent.

[Kafra Agent]
Hello. I've been dispatched by the Kafra Head Office to help trainees. The Kafra Corporation is the world's largest company with a long and distinquished history on the Rune Midgard continent. It's important for you adventurers to be close with us.

[Kafra Agent]
I will inform you about the Kafra Services which you will be using most frequently, [Save], [Storage] and [Teleport] Services.

[Kafra Agent]
When you talk to the Kafra Agent and ask for the Save Service, the location of where you will revive, after being defeated in battle, will be changed.

[Kafra Agent]
Your Respawn Point is always the last place that you have saved. Using Butterfly Wings will return you to the place where you last saved. This service is free to use, so feel free to use the Save Service anytime you like.

[Kafra Agent]
Next is the Storage Service. You can store and retrieve your items in any town at your convenience.

[Kafra Agent]
It's unreasonable to carry all of your items with you when you don't need them right away. Please use our Storage and keep your items safe and secure.

[Kafra Agent]
Our convenient Storage Service is provided to our customers for a small fee which is different from town to town. However, you must be at least Basic Skill Level 6 to use the storage.

[Kafra Agent]
There are 7 different item sections of the Storage into which items are organized: Consumable, Kafra(Item mall), Armor, Weapons, Ammo, Cards and Etc items.

[Kafra Agent]
There are a maximum of 600 Inventory Slots in Kafra Storage, meaning you can have up to 600 different kinds of total items in Storage.

[Kafra Agent]
If you have a Premium Subscription the maximum Inventory Slots in Kafra Storage are 600! Remember though, that in the case of Equipment, each item takes up one Inventory Slot. The maximum number of items that can be placed into Kafra Storage is 30,000.

[Kafra Agent]
Storage is shared by every character on one account. Storage fees can vary for each Town. So please keep that in mind when you are using our storage service

[Kafra Agent]
We also provide you with a Teleport Service to make your trips easier when you are trying to move a long distance.

[Kafra Agent]
With our veteran teleporter's skill, your trip will be safer and more comfortable. Oh and remember that the places you can teleport to vary from town to town.

[Kafra Agent]
This is all for your never ending support. We are working hard to repay our debt to our customers.

[Kafra Agent]
Do you want to hear another explanation?

[Option Menu]

About Save
About Storage
About Teleport
About Cart
No More.

[Cool Event Staff]
Hello. We are working hard to provide events on Rune Midgard similar to the Kafra service.

[Cool Event Staff]
Our staff is here to support you with [storage], [save], [teleport service]s

[Cool Event Staff]
If there's no Kafra around you, we're around to help you.

[Cool Event Staff]
We are working hard on a network of Events to make your life better. I hope you can meet our staff in Alberta.

[Cool Event Staff]
Who knows, we might meet outside of this academy.

[Cool Event Staff]
Mostly all of us wear red coats in the places that the Kafra staff don't work for.

[Soldier]
Soldiers are in each town to guide you to useful places. Ask us where you want to go and we'll mark your mini maps with a +. Don't hesitate to ask us questions.

[Soldier]
We all don't look the same in every town but our roles are the same. Take not of this whenever you go to a new town.

[Soldier]
If you want to go to your first town, you can do so once you have reached Base level 11 in the training grounds.

[Chocolat]
How was the guide of the Information [Soldier]? Last is about using [Inn]s. There's an Inn located in each town.

[Chocolat]
You can rest at Inns or Hotels for a small fee. Your HP and SP will be recovered completely by resting there. Can't hurt to use one, eh?

[Chocolat]
Besides these guys, theres many merchants selling various kind of items, so go check them out.

[Chocolat]
You've completed all the quests I gave you. As a reward, I will give you Free Tickets for Kafra Storage and Teleport Service. They will come in handy.

[Chocolat]
That's all for me. Now, it's time for real combat!

[Chocolat]
Real Combat Training will be given by Instructor Brade. You met him earlier. I will send you to the Real Combat Training Field.

That's it before you get to the combat portion. By far the most wordy is the Kafra Agent. Though I'm more concerned with Mr. Cool Events grammar, it seems to break down after the Kafra dialog, probably because it was done at a later date.

I honestly don't think the whole thing is that wordy, but it could use a composition and grammar overhaul.

Edited by ShionTheBlack, 02 December 2011 - 01:56 AM.

[Rutana]

Plushy... learn how to be respectful, geez...

I allready suggested this in the fungi forums, but I wanna note it here as well.
I say, let the novi ground stay as it is. Add one npc telling about the 2nd novice ground though, and how to get to it once they left novice ground.
Update Class NPC's for better informations about class.

Introducing the 2nd Novi ground with an NPC in Eden Group, warping EVERYONE there.
Put this Novi Ground full of NPC's who talk about different, little subjects in the game, giving all information that is needed to play and helping new players.
Also, make a cornor where old players can wait for new ones and helping them out like a mentor. Or leave their name on some way.
This Training Ground can be left and entered at any time, so new players CAN get informations there, but Don't have to.

[Helios0]

when people try "too hard" to defend their position they tend to derail their own argument..


with that said..

The Training ground info is pretty straight forward and genuinly usefull especially to people who have never played the game before. Although there is plenty of room for improvement.
Of the entire process the main part that really stands out is the Visual portion of it where you see diagrams depicting what the NPC is trying to teach you

I was disappointed the game didn't incorporate this as much in other areas. Soo much can be conveyed through diagrams and pictures that text will struggles explain.
Doing the Kiel Hyre Quest I was excited when through the thousands of pop ups of text (The story itself is very intesting) there are parts where you see actual graphics pop up like a Photograph that you discover on a table..
Using more graphics mixed with text boxes can really enrich the overall experience in not only the novice training ground but everywhere in the game.
As informative and exciting as plain text is..
many times it just becomes a repetitive spam clicking of the [Enter] key untill you either finish.. or get to the good parts.

[Ayleria]

I wanted to contribute, too, but as Xellie and others have said, the attitude put forward in this thread kind of put me off. But with the last posts, I guess it's starting to get back on topic.

Leaving the grounds the way it is seems fine. Everyone tells you where to go and what to do properly, and I don't think people playing the game for the first time are that upset by pictures and one-liners, even if there are a lot.

As far as the quiz idea... There's a ton of quizzes for each job change, and I wonder how many people like those? Isn't it also adding to the great wall of text idea that the grounds need to be deleted for in the first place? I really don't think novices need quizzes, though they do need more information (that isn't just thrown at them in the beginning of the game). People don't know to go to the wiki or ragial, and, yes, the game shouldn't be dependent on them. I like the idea of a second novice grounds or a library of sorts to give more information.

Stat builds are a little harder to figure out how to deal with besides the wiki. All I could think of would be to add a stat resetter for first job characters, which essentially does the same thing as the skill resetter. Then people can fix their skills and play around with them as a novice/first job to see what they like best.

Also, the one thing that bugs me about first job changing. Thief guild. You have to pass familiars to get there, which are way too high of a level for a 10-13/10 novice needing to change. THAT would be what I think is most annoying to new players that don't really know what flywings are. Finding the Thief guild (and Archer guild) is also a little confusing as a new player/someone that never had to find it before. I think just having the guides in Morroc and Payon direct you may do the trick, though.

[Xellie]

Have you played iRO before?

Yes -> skip to combat training -> v short no duh quiz
No -> Come this way and learn how to play!

ez.

[HRdevil]

It might be nicer having an Information resource inside the game after you leave the novice grounds then having to cram all that info in the 1st 10 min of playing...



like having "Know-it-All" NPC's in towns and in Eden to answer "Frequently Asked Questions" that some nubs have


or having info on stuff that people wonder about once they get out there like..
-where do i level?
-How do i get back to morroc?
-How do i change jobs?
-How do i Open a BUY SHOP?
-I Have BUY SHOP Vouchers. Why don't i see the skill in my Skill Tree?
-Where do i buy Items (tool shop)?
-How do i form a party?
-What is the group finder?
-this game has mail????????
-I found this strange place called an auction house why doesn't anyone ever use it?
-how is loot priority determined?
-Why arent i getting as much exp from monsters 10 levels higher or 30 levels lower than me?
-Whats a Kafra?
-What is Eden?
-Why is there a giant robot in south prontera field killing me while i kill porings?
-What stats are important to my class?
-How do i reset my skills?
-How do i reset my Stats?
-How do i Get Married?
-How do i Divorce this loser?
-What is WoE?
-What is an MVP?
-Where do i Start the dungeon Access Quest for X Dungeon?
-Are these zenny selling sites legit?
-How do i Whisper someone?
-How do i Get & Care for a Cute-Pet?

im hungry time for dinner..
neways yeah.. training grounds could really be simplified and improved imo. this game doesn't have the easiest learning curve. Theres a lot of things people don't know are out there unless they look it up.. or have someone tell them about it..

I like that idea, there should be a NPC called "Mr. know it all" in eden

[FiskBlack]

I like that idea, there should be a NPC called "Mr. know it all" in eden

So we wont have so much whining.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw4vHMXqEt4