61 replies to this topic

[Mwrip]

I wish kRO cared about PvM play, party play in particular... but they don't. This patch very strongly reflects that.

I'm sure the new spellbook system, improved Comet etc is going to help in WoE battles, but for those of us who just want a good party where the TANK doesn't massively out-damage us, well... maybe in 2014.

As for blocking fists with walls, don't get too excited. A sura can make Gates of Hell count as melee or ranged at will, so neither safety nor pnuema provides any protection against it at all. Safety his wall, and he'll 1-shot you with GoH instead... or just Cursed Circle you so you never get the wall up in the first place.

Edited by Mwrip, 15 December 2011 - 09:33 PM.

[Caelum]

-still waiting for the day phen is useable in WoE-

[Kuwano]

Warlock will never be a balanced class!! WARLOCK WILL NEVER BE A BALLANCED CLASS!!! W-A-R-L-O-C-K WILL NEVER BE A B-A-L-A-N-C-E-D CLASS!!!!!

^^^ This. So there is no any point reasoning about how this class is unbalanced. I don't think Koreans sharing this idea and will ever change it. After the day they started nerfing mages and buffing monks they just can't stop doing it. It's like an addiction.

But really, the class already has lowest HP in game and not so powerful spells, and you still want to make it into a baby? I understand that it's cute, but hey, I wouldn't expect it to be useful, mostly because of halved HP and SP. Cast speed hopefully might be reverted. Also I'm not sure what Matk nerf you're talking about. A few spells's damage is a bit decreased through a formulas, yeah, but that's just a few and not directly related to Matk. Unless I'm missing something here. But frankly I didn't notice any nerfs apart from Frost Misty and Jack Frost.

I wish kRO cared about PvM play, party play in particular... but they don't. This patch very strongly reflects that.

Completely agreed. They're not putting much thought into anything outside of WoE and not listening to complaints that is not related to WoE. At some point they decided that WoE is the main part of this game and majority of people only playing because of it (sadly, I'm not one of them).

HE call Brynhild, that cost billions, JUST like its a ease thing to get like a knife[4] at last that is the way i understand it.

Yea, game as it is obviously favors players who WoE and PvP like crazy, defaulting just brynhilds, just +9 or higher weapons (that is account bound some more) and just MVP cards. Then some of them can just go and complain about some squishy class being OP in PvP, and developers just nerfing them (but never a monk class, because many years ago a furtune-teller told them that Buddha won't forgive them if they'll do anything inappropriate to monks).

Edited by Kuwano, 15 December 2011 - 10:41 PM.

[Wizard]

HE call Brynhild, that cost billions, JUST like its a ease thing to get like a knife[4] at last that is the way i understand it.

Well... sorry to burst your bubble but if you want to get the best end damage, you have to actually "invest" to get it... you can't compare a warlock or any class with eden gear-like to one who has competitive gears...

My post was to state that it is possible to deal good amount of damage with the class w/o any MvP card and such... Is not easy to get good gear but with effort you can as everyone else in game... or how do you think most people get their gear?

At the end, the balance made things a lil easier to manage... that's all, not that much nerf and the nerf was balanced with the buffs... so there's not much of a chance for the class itself.

PS: Haven't seen any single reason of why all this QQ for the post balance patch... just people whining about the class itself...

Edited by Wizard, 15 December 2011 - 10:45 PM.

[Cmoota]

<-- Not a big WoE Fan either! The screw over everything! Just look at RK for example! I understand they had it coming but, they should never have even TOUCHED Rune Knights or Warlocks OUTSIDE OF PVP AREAS!!! I dont CARE if the nerf warlocks and RKs in WoE and other PVP zones but LEAVE US ALONE IN PARTY PLAY!!

I'm a Paying costumer who DOESNT PVP OR WoE very much because I hate them! and the balance patch does NOTHING for how I feel about them!!

My bit of advice is: CUT our damage inside of PVP only, LEAVE US ALONE ANYWHERE ELSE!!!

Oh and it should be obvious why I made a baby warlock. The feeling of accomplishment that comes with passing the warlock test as a baby and with all that gear, outmatching a large number of warlocks my lvl in either survival or damage! Im striving to be not only the first 150 baby warlock on yggdrasil, but the strongest baby character in general!

Oh and please prioritize fixing the casting time to what it was or faster then before your nerf fest... your games future depends on it since so many characters use spells!Or heck, even charged skills use dex as a speed up! bring back instant cast would REALLY make people happy!Instant cast that is outside of PVP

Edited by Cmoota, 15 December 2011 - 10:51 PM.

[Wizard]

So... what's your point anyway?

PvM nerf? how? explain it to me how's this balance patch affecting your warlock in PvM.

[Cmoota]

Well for all I know its the slow casting time glitch that's effecting our sense of what's a nerf and what isn't...
as I stated earlier, the sooner they have the casting time thing fixed, the sooner everyone will be much happier!

That's basically the gist of it maybe... Slow casting time kills us badly!

[Anko]

Man.. if was true i would be happy ^___^''''
BUT..., and a big BUTT /rice
Stasis hit EVERYONE, meaning u will mute u guildies...
The next thing you see is you in the Saved point, AND guildless ROFL XD

Needing to excercise some caution when executing a skill does not mean it is bad, it means that organized groups will have an advantage.

If you stasis and get killed then i would say that is a good thing since it means you are not under the stasis effect either unless you have a gtb. I find alot of the time after i stasis in a mob i actually do not die when i want to.

A bryn is only 5% more than agav card for matk and you can slot agav card into an elemental armor and it is at a fraction of the price.

[darktie22]

Well, for warlocks brynhild isnt just a BIG improvement. Brynhild (hp and sp aside...) gives you 10% matk. Agav card armor (panic) gives you 5%matk. So bryn isnt gonna improve your damage a lot (it does, but not a lot). You think pets give lot of damage? (the one with makt), its 1%. And ninja scroll also doesnt add a lot (2%), so 5% isn't so big.

But that aside, you forgot to mention your +13 (or was it +14?) glorious staff of destruiction. lot of people now have +10 or more... But not everyone, and even less people has it that high. My released chain lighting was making 8k damage as average in pvp with a +9gsod, agav carded armor, matk headgear, ninja scroll, 2xmoh. I see lot of difference there.

In pvp warlock can do realy good, in woe, i don't think so, unless your heavenly geared. You can only contribute with helping a bit with dps (even db hits harder than chain lighting, and its aoe)

[Wizard]

Well for all I know its the slow casting time glitch that's effecting our sense of what's a nerf and what isn't...as I stated earlier, the sooner they have the casting time thing fixed, the sooner everyone will be much happier! That's basically the gist of it maybe... Slow casting time kills us badly!

Well... slow cast has been there since renewal came live... we were having a "personalized" cast time that iRO GM's made specially for us... every other server has the kRO one (except jRO) and there has been no complains about it other than us.

That's not a point to classify balance patch as bad but that's something towards the class itself... I understand that if you were a 1st or 2nd job but as Warlock, there are ways around it like playing with your stats... you can reduce like +85% variable cast time if you play it right...

Needing to excercise some caution when executing a skill does not mean it is bad, it means that organized groups will have an advantage. If you stasis and get killed then i would say that is a good thing since it means you are not under the stasis effect either unless you have a gtb. I find alot of the time after i stasis in a mob i actually do not die when i want to.A bryn is only 5% more than agav card for matk and you can slot agav card into an elemental armor and it is at a fraction of the price.

Yup... %matk has a lot to do for end damage... but your stats plays an important role as well... good distribution for your stats can increase that 5% gap in quite a bit...

Well, for warlocks brynhild isnt just a BIG improvement. Brynhild (hp and sp aside...) gives you 10% matk. Agav card armor (panic) gives you 5%matk. So bryn isnt gonna improve your damage a lot (it does, but not a lot). You think pets give lot of damage? (the one with makt), its 1%. And ninja scroll also doesnt add a lot (2%), so 5% isn't so big.But that aside, you forgot to mention your +13 (or was it +14?) glorious staff of destruiction. lot of people now have +10 or more... But not everyone, and even less people has it that high. My released chain lighting was making 8k damage as average in pvp with a +9gsod, agav carded armor, matk headgear, ninja scroll, 2xmoh. I see lot of difference there.In pvp warlock can do realy good, in woe, i don't think so, unless your heavenly geared. You can only contribute with helping a bit with dps (even db hits harder than chain lighting, and its aoe)

Pets? I was using Zealotus (3%matk to demihuman?) and it's quite fun for precast and such...

Nowdays everyone should have +10 or higher KvM SoD thanks to those upgrade events... heck I got +12 KvM SoD on my sorcerer account and it was rather easy to obtain... even thou, +14 to +10 is 8%matk difference... is not that staff that makes the difference but the whole set as well... I use +12 Pom Hat and MoH and such... I mean... if you really wanna improve your damage, you have to make sacrifices and improve your gear as well... if you don't try to improve your gears is not the class's fault for not being able to deal good amount of damage yours for not improving your gear required to do that kind of damage...

[Gigahertz2011]

Nowdays everyone should have +10 or higher KvM SoD thanks to those upgrade events...

Seriously Wizard? I don't have a KvM SoD, I don't even have a +10 staff, I don't even have a +10 knife!

Edited by Gigahertz2011, 16 December 2011 - 11:14 AM.

[Cmoota]

Yay!!! They fixed the casting speed issue!!!!

Best Chirstmas EVER!!!!

Edited by Cmoota, 16 December 2011 - 02:09 PM.

[Kuwano]

Nowdays everyone should have +10 or higher KvM SoD thanks to those upgrade events... heck I got +12 KvM SoD on my sorcerer account and it was rather easy to obtain... even thou, +14 to +10 is 8%matk difference... is not that staff that makes the difference but the whole set as well... I use +12 Pom Hat and MoH and such... I mean... if you really wanna improve your damage, you have to make sacrifices and improve your gear as well... if you don't try to improve your gears is not the class's fault for not being able to deal good amount of damage yours for not improving your gear required to do that kind of damage...

Well, about the +10 things I can't agree less with you. Upgrade events made it cheaper and easier but still didn't make it accessible for lots of average players. Luck also matters even with enriched ores. I spent a few hundred thousands of zeny AND quite a bit of Kafra Points to just make my Thorn Staff +9. So how is it everyone should have +10 or higher weapons? o.o I wouldn't generalize it like that, not everyone has billions of zeny to burn or hundreds of dollars to waste. And apart from having or not having a dollars, it just doesn't feel smart to spend hundreds for something like this. It's not even paying to win, it's paying to at least be able to do average damage.

With that being said, even with my crappy gears and +9 Thorn Staff+Skull Cap I'm able to kill some classes like Maestros, GX (sometimes), AB (these poor things ) and (very rarely) even RK. But it's just that they're either distracted or even noobier than me. And it's only when I'm not lagging badly.

Edited by Kuwano, 16 December 2011 - 11:54 PM.

[Anko]

Well, about the +10 things I can't agree less with you. Upgrade events made it cheaper and easier but still didn't make it accessible for lots of average players. Luck also matters even with enriched ores. I spent a few hundred thousands of zeny AND quite a bit of Kafra Points to just make my Thorn Staff +9. So how is it everyone should have +10 or higher weapons? o.o I wouldn't generalize it like that, not everyone has billions of zeny to burn or hundreds of dollars to waste. And apart from having or not having a dollars, it just doesn't feel smart to spend hundreds for something like this. It's not even paying to win, it's paying to at least be able to do average damage.

With that being said, even with my crappy gears and +9 Thorn Staff+Skull Cap I'm able to kill some classes like Maestros, GX (sometimes), AB (these poor things ) and (very rarely) even RK. But it's just that they're either distracted or even noobier than me. And it's only when I'm not lagging badly.

I don't like gambling either tbh and i tend to just pick disabling classes which are not so dependent on overupped gear. Bottom line is, if i really want to just kill in woe i would have switched to a different class shortly after renewal.

A +9 thorn staff is not what i would class as crappy gear.

[TsukishiroSayuki]

Nowdays everyone should have +10 or higher KvM SoD thanks to those upgrade events... heck I got +12 KvM SoD on my sorcerer account and it was rather easy to obtain... even thou, +14 to +10 is 8%matk difference... is not that staff that makes the difference but the whole set as well... I use +12 Pom Hat and MoH and such... I mean... if you really wanna improve your damage, you have to make sacrifices and improve your gear as well... if you don't try to improve your gears is not the class's fault for not being able to deal good amount of damage yours for not improving your gear required to do that kind of damage...

And no. Not "everyone should have +10 or higher KvM SoD" it's expensive as hell. and if u talking about that event of Enriched don't brake. the diference between enriched and HD was 10%, so simple the event sucked and if u traded a HD to use a Enriched you are a noob. meaning u paid more for every atempt that don't matter in all in all.

Again, even if you a rich that don't mean that +12 is DEFAULT to everyone that have a warlock do have a almost decent damage.

A lot class with halfassed give more damage than WL will ever do with those high ekips you mention. I don't want to improve my damage[and don't have millions of dollaras to it.] by spending billions, read again BILLIONS, when its not wort to begining it. When Warlock is truly balanced i can think of it^{[dreaming of it]}.

[Gigahertz2011]

Okay I've had some time to think this over, test the changes and come up with a decent new build. Here's what I've learned. All the AoE we have left is Crimson Rock, that's it. FM is nerfed, JT alone is just for crowd control, Comet and ES can't be spammed, SG is only conditional, CL is mostly single target. With my build, I can crowd control and solo well, but in a party, I have no idea what to do anymore.

It's not ENOUGH that I have to cast 2 skills to do the same damage as Crimson Rock does, but the first one doesn't always even work?? Also, why does CL only jump between targets half the time? It's completely bugged. Why do we have to summon 5 balls to use Tetra Vortex, whereas Acid Bottle potters can just SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAM attacks? Why the high mdef on MvPs? Why do the most important monsters take no elemental damage at all? Why can't we spam Comet ffs? All of this is blatantly unfair, because I'm pointing out what other classes are already entitled to.

/rant

Edited by Gigahertz2011, 18 December 2011 - 09:28 PM.

[darktie22]

Well, pointing some things that aren comlpetely true. You CAN spam comet, with the book ofc. Reading spell book is now realy fast cast and no reuse delay or cooldown, so you can spam it non stop (would hurt badly your sp and your redgems stock if you dont have link).

About mvping... They have retarded mdef, nothing to say here.

But about acid bottle... Well, like i said in mvping theres nothing to say about, but in woe, firstly it only takes 4 shpheres, you can chose your element wisely, amp it and cast a relatively fast skill that can 1hko most of the people even without expensive skills (i didn't think it would happen, but experience proved i was wrong), and in other hand acid bomb makes laughtable damage in woe.

I understand that you only point to pvm/mvp environement, so yes, your righ, warlock can comp against gens, rks, rgs or suras in mvp due to their high mdef, this is one thing that should be fixed but will never be. For the leveling issues, crimson rock should do the trick for all non water, non fire mobs and for this chain lighting should be enough. If CL doesnt jumps properly is that theres no other target in range, even if you see it, its possible that you have those possitions bugged. Would need further tests to confirm, but as far as I tried cl changes targets like it should be.

Finaly your statement that the most important monsters take no elemental damage at all? You mean mvp? (ghost mvp I can guess). If thats so, you have the handicap everyone have but with an advantatge that you dont have forced neutral skills (gfist/acid bomb, etc). If you mean regular monsters, i dont know what your talking about.

[Anko]

It's not ENOUGH that I have to cast 2 skills to do the same damage as Crimson Rock does, but the first one doesn't always even work?? Also, why does CL only jump between targets half the time? It's completely bugged. Why do we have to summon 5 balls to use Tetra Vortex, whereas Acid Bottle potters can just SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAM attacks? Why the high mdef on MvPs? Why do the most important monsters take no elemental damage at all? Why can't we spam Comet ffs? All of this is blatantly unfair, because I'm pointing out what other classes are already entitled to.

/rant

For a balanced comparison you need to factor in the consumables required for acid bomb. The preparation for acid bomb takes far more than comet, it's just they are prepared in advance.

[Gigahertz2011]

Darktie, I was referring to Angels, Demons, Demi-human monsters, the monsters that matter for making money on drops, We have no chance against them since they take 0% - 25% damage from earth, fire, water and wind.

Edited by Gigahertz2011, 19 December 2011 - 11:22 AM.

[Wizard]

And no. Not "everyone should have +10 or higher KvM SoD" it's expensive as hell. and if u talking about that event of Enriched don't brake. the diference between enriched and HD was 10%, so simple the event sucked and if u traded a HD to use a Enriched you are a noob. meaning u paid more for every atempt that don't matter in all in all.Again, even if you a rich that don't mean that +12 is DEFAULT to everyone that have a warlock do have a almost decent damage.A lot class with halfassed give more damage than WL will ever do with those high ekips you mention. I don't want to improve my damage[and don't have millions of dollaras to it.] by spending billions, read again BILLIONS, when its not wort to begining it. When Warlock is truly balanced i can think of it^{[dreaming of it]}.

Well... as how it is the game... it's your choice not to have a good upgraded staff... chances were given to everyone be able to upgrade their stuff... if you chose not to it's not everyone fault but yours alone...

You can't compare other classes to Warlocks because we have a different formula to begin with... Magic attack CAN be reduced by any reduction in game... while Physical Damage can bypass certain reductions depending on the skill... therefore what you THINK it's unbalanced because it deals more damage than magic it isn't... it's just the formula itself that makes it look that way.

Some of us like to try and improve themselves with whatever is available while other people like yourself just whine about it w/o giving any real and reasonable solution or alternatives to deal with.

Darktie, I was referring to Angels, Demons, Demi-human monsters, the monsters that matter for making money on drops, We have no chance against them since they take 0% - 25% damage from earth, fire, water and wind.

You can always spam Comet... with the right gear/cards you can pull off good deal of damage and spam it.

Testing some Post-Balance Spells and having some feedback from other Warlocks in guild... there are several other ways to inflict good amount of damage just by using combos that were unthinkable before Balance Patch...

[Anko]

^Yep, your comet actually kills me now. Before it was nothing, now i can barely survive it. lol

[Gigahertz2011]

W/e i'm gonna stop comparing WL to Gens because it's not really productive. But I wish comet was an AoE acid bottle, and yeah I made a whole thread about this before, but that would be cool.

Edited by Gigahertz2011, 20 December 2011 - 12:21 AM.

[CeruleanGamer]

Reading Spellbook buff overrides every nerf they added on the other Warlock skills. The cast time and delay on it is so much faster now that you can easily reload 2 comets in less than 5 seconds and obliterate a huge mob of players in WoE. It's also good for Tetra Vortex since manual casting can be troublesome sometimes. This one skill neglects our slow cast times making us very versatile spellcaster class still.

Also, the buff on Sienna Execrate is really mean now. Stone Curse is reliant on just hard mdef but I think Sienna ignores stat reductions so it will always give full duration. Combo this with RK's Dragon Breath and you'll be wiping out a lot of people. I maxed Crimson Rock along with this skill and I got very desirable results in PvP.

If you really think Warlocks are just for Frost Misty>Jack Frost, you really need to quit playing Warlock and play another class. We can finally play this class right without using just 2-3 buttons.

Edited by CeruleanGamer, 20 December 2011 - 09:02 AM.

[TsukishiroSayuki]

Well... as how it is the game... it's your choice not to have a good upgraded staff... chances were given to everyone be able to upgrade their stuff... if you chose not to it's not everyone fault but yours alone...

You got that right it's MY choice don't spend bilions,even if i have that, in a unbalanced class to beggining it. And anyways, in the moment i have only 31m, and the maximum zenys i got in one time is about 100m

You can't compare other classes to Warlocks because we have a different formula to begin with... Magic attack CAN be reduced by any reduction in game... while Physical Damage can bypass certain reductions depending on the skill... therefore what you THINK it's unbalanced because it deals more damage than magic it isn't... it's just the formula itself that makes it look that way.

There is where you utterly WRONG to balance thing you need to compare to somethings, in this case the other classes.
And you just give me one of the resons that why Warlock is unbalanced. i will not read the "n't... it's just the formula itself that makes it look that way." and put the dot there and what you said make sense.

Some of us like to try and improve themselves with whatever is available while other people like yourself just whine about it w/o giving any real and reasonable solution or alternatives to deal with.

No what you really said in that is: "I'm rich i can spend billion like it's nothing."
And futher more when someone says anything about not being balanced you are the person that bring God,super over upgraded itens like its DEFAULT, i got it you are a might warlock and have infinite resorce's and want to talk big and show off, but please DON'T, the itens you talk out is no way comum they are very rare, soo they are no way reasonable, or a resonable solution to the problem.

[Wizard]

^Yep, your comet actually kills me now. Before it was nothing, now i can barely survive it. lol

It has been always the same Comet for me... perhaps the difference relies if I actually wanna use it properly (like using buffs and food) or just for kicks?

Reading Spellbook buff overrides every nerf they added on the other Warlock skills. The cast time and delay on it is so much faster now that you can easily reload 2 comets in less than 5 seconds and obliterate a huge mob of players in WoE. It's also good for Tetra Vortex since manual casting can be troublesome sometimes. This one skill neglects our slow cast times making us very versatile spellcaster class still.

Also, the buff on Sienna Execrate is really mean now. Stone Curse is reliant on just hard mdef but I think Sienna ignores stat reductions so it will always give full duration. Combo this with RK's Dragon Breath and you'll be wiping out a lot of people. I maxed Crimson Rock along with this skill and I got very desirable results in PvP.

If you really think Warlocks are just for Frost Misty>Jack Frost, you really need to quit playing Warlock and play another class. We can finally play this class right without using just 2-3 buttons.

^ This... There are several spells for several combos with this class... narrow people usually tends to have narrow ideas...

You got that right it's MY choice don't spend bilions,even if i have that, in a unbalanced class to beggining it. And anyways, in the moment i have only 31m, and the maximum zenys i got in one time is about 100m

There is where you utterly WRONG to balance thing you need to compare to somethings, in this case the other classes.
And you just give me one of the resons that why Warlock is unbalanced. i will not read the "n't... it's just the formula itself that makes it look that way." and put the dot there and what you said make sense.


No what you really said in that is: "I'm rich i can spend billion like it's nothing."
And futher more when someone says anything about not being balanced you are the person that bring God,super over upgraded itens like its DEFAULT, i got it you are a might warlock and have infinite resorce's and want to talk big and show off, but please DON'T, the itens you talk out is no way comum they are very rare, soo they are no way reasonable, or a resonable solution to the problem.

Wrong again...

I've stated as before that high damage is possible... I never said that it was free or for everyone to reach it... it's up to the player to get "above" average gears and such... if not, it's fine but don't complain why your damage is lower than others that actually do care to have gears to increase their damage... The class can deal good amount of damage and have a good cast time... it needs resources? yes... but it's like every other class...

If the formula doesn't favor you for your end damage... well, just over ride it with even more damage... that's how my playstyle is and until now I have no problems whatsoever... and I don't need God Items and MvP's to prove... because now we have those "restrictions" for WoE and I still I'm able to kill people as I did before... it's up to the player to manage their choices to get the better of it... that's all to it...

I usually take myself as example just to show that whatever you guys might think is impossible for the class is actually doable if you manage your options correctly...

+10's and higher KvM SoD are quite common on Ymir... thanks to the upgrade events and how easy is to obtain the necessary Ore for it... as I said before, if you don't want to spend it's ok but that's a personal choice that doesn't have anything to do with the class itself... Byrnhild, +13 KvM SoD are the only items I take as default... is not hard to obtain nowdays... and you can replace Bryn for Agav card and you will get almost same amount of damage.

PS: You don't need to spend billions to get high upgrade stuff... I've barely spend less than 10k WPE to get all my 3 KvM SoD's and gear to +10 and higher... it depends on your luck as well =)