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#26 gl101

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 06:59 AM

im not saying that make the changes "NOW" but i hope they do it maybe on the next patch or so because some people are unhappy with this.
SC class didnt have any problem in the beginning. i would say the OP class are GX,RK,RG and sura they have skill that can one shot you. what i dont get is why make changes on all character when its just this class that people fear. i myself would have this char soon but why nerfed SC
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#27 gl101

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 07:02 AM

lol i think the majority of people has been let down with this patch coming from SC user
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#28 pinoguin

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 07:17 AM

Arrow storm turned out to be pretty decent, I combined it with frost nova and managed to be pretty useful in parties.

I am still sad how badly the damage in feint bomb & triangle shot are .... there are bugs in other skills too.

Still, I would like to know the feedback of kRO players about this, did they accept the changes? what did they do to compensate with the drawbacks?
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#29 Charon

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 07:53 AM

Arrow storm turned out to be pretty decent, I combined it with frost nova and managed to be pretty useful in parties.

I am still sad how badly the damage in feint bomb & triangle shot are .... there are bugs in other skills too.

Still, I would like to know the feedback of kRO players about this, did they accept the changes? what did they do to compensate with the drawbacks?


You can also try Ignition Break which got buffed a bit (the 100 sp cost isnt nice though obviously).

But that's about it.
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#30 Kingcool

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 07:54 AM

LOL.
I have to laugh so many when i read this here LOL.

SC is beating MVP solo?
hahahahaha i wanted to know how.
I even had lots of problems with the tunins.

Sure if you have cards worth tons of million zeny....i think you have seen SOME SC which where wearing cards worth 400 Mio.

But NO normal fire trap build is able to beat an mvp solo...thats ridicules.

Besides SC was doing from ALL classes the lowest dmg with their skills.

And you are talking "it was needed to lower the skills?" are you totaly crazy now?

RK with here 15-25k one hit dmg.
Warlocks with their 30k dmg.

And the other Characters too aner WE?
We SC where only doing 5-6k dmg and you are talking that that is fair and thats what balanced is called?
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#31 gl101

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 07:57 AM

yes arrow storm is great combo with frost nova but pls the sp is doubled beacause of reproduce. i dont mind using it but with this skill being use in pvp, players now know hoe to counter it so still bad idea.

i used to mvp fine with the combo of quad malicous gauche+flying kick+fire trap but now i cant. i did try arrow storm+frost nova but you get owned easy i mean not able to wear shield is suicidle for SC.

pls tell have u killed maya purple,atroce,osiris and pharoah with those combo, i know there not hard of a mvp but with arrow storm i cant seem to kill them with fire trap i could kill them EASY

im using Ignition break but it doesnt do much i tryed nogging with it and i couldnt even kill a mob, 110 sp to be precise and 2k damage is not good enough

Edited by gl101, 21 December 2011 - 08:01 AM.

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#32 Kingcool

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 08:10 AM

the only thing i can do is....warn all new players to build up an sc.
i was only able to build up the sc because i spend lots of real life money into kafra items and sold them in game.

SC now is only a pvp woe class and even with that builds the SC`s now are to weak to stand a chance there.
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#33 asayuu

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 10:06 AM

yes arrow storm is great combo with frost nova but pls the sp is doubled beacause of reproduce. i dont mind using it but with this skill being use in pvp, players now know hoe to counter it so still bad idea.

i used to mvp fine with the combo of quad malicous gauche+flying kick+fire trap but now i cant. i did try arrow storm+frost nova but you get owned easy i mean not able to wear shield is suicidle for SC.

pls tell have u killed maya purple,atroce,osiris and pharoah with those combo, i know there not hard of a mvp but with arrow storm i cant seem to kill them with fire trap i could kill them EASY

im using Ignition break but it doesnt do much i tryed nogging with it and i couldnt even kill a mob, 110 sp to be precise and 2k damage is not good enough


How good they nerfed fire trap. A trapper is not intended to kill everything this way, because it is ridiculous.

Everyone thinks they are supposed to kill everything solo, and this is horrible.

I would like a one-second delay to the trap instead of the "omg now they hit physical fire" damage though.

Also. I agree with EVERYONE who says rogue classes should NOT be able to use flying kick. It's ridiculous because not even linkers can use it, AND THE SKILL IS ON THEIR NATURAL SKILL TREE. Hm ^^

There are two things.

1- PVM should NOT be a solo thing. So yes, nerfing the skills can be a good way to reduce the ability for people to solo things... Oh wait, jRO got the same thing by BUFFING THE MONSTERS.
2- The nerfs select classes to be good or bad on PVM. Chaser got VERY hurt with the balance patch, but it was NOT because of Fire Trap alone. But all the other stuff together.

"MVPing easy" is not the intention of the game. But I would prefer them buffing the monsters instead of nerfing the characters. D:
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#34 Kingcool

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 11:29 AM

what are you?
An egoistic player?

PVM should not be a solo thing?<--YOU ARE CRAZY

You want to force every person to play in partys?
Yeah go on...of course EVERY person has high internet speed so EVERY person can play all day long in Partys.

DON`T MAKE me LAUGH!

If you wanne force every person to play in party go play ff online...but wait...EVEN They noticed that forcing player to partying isn`t the best way to get more players.

I have low internet speed like many other players in germany , which are living in villages...so you mean "all players should play in partys or quitt?"

I am a solo player and thats good.
I am not interestet in waiting HOURS to get partys, i can play when my internt is good and mustn wait for stupid partys AND the important point in that....SOLO PLAYER AREN`t stealing the whole time monsters and act like friends in the game.

I`ve seen it a lot during tunins...you as solo player are running arround and then the whole time there are partys attacking monster which you already attacks...they are stealing every thing and don`t even apologize for it.

MvP no soloing OK!
BUT PVM not soloing?
LOl
so new players which are no players knowing there...shouldn`t play?
Because they can`t find partys well?

Ok Now i know you are a fan of kro and aren`t realistic.

Edited by Kingcool, 21 December 2011 - 11:30 AM.

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#35 GuardianTK

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 01:28 PM

Okay, cool it down you guys.

To correct Kingcool, Fire Trap build on a Chaser was an extremely effective method for them to MVP. This mostly only worked up to the mid-tier MVP's though.

Giving Fire Trap the fire property as well as lowered damage was enough of a nerf towards MVP'ing in some aspects for even Rangers. This trap damage nerf basically makes all Ranger traps completely and utterly useless for Chasers.


Ignition Break has its drawbacks despite the increased damage the balance patch brought with it. You always have to be within 5x5 cells of the monsters you fight in order to inflict maximum damage potential with the Ignition Break. This is a horrible skill to utilize for partying in general compared to Arrow Storm. Unfortunately for Chasers, the strongest bow they'll ever be able to obtain based on kRO updates is the Orc Archer Bow. The Elven Bow[1]+Elven Arrow combo is only something Rangers and Performers can use.


There are no future updates in equipment specialized towards Chasers that are supposed to improve leveling capabilities for Chasers to this date.
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#36 Kingcool

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 01:37 PM

i only read ignition break here arrow shower there...but what is this ignition break anyway?

I am no english speaking person so if you only explain the skill working that doesn`t make sense to me-.-
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#37 GuardianTK

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 02:01 PM

i only read ignition break here arrow shower there...but what is this ignition break anyway?

I am no english speaking person so if you only explain the skill working that doesn`t make sense to me-.-

Go look it up on irowiki for the basics. It's an RK skill.
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#38 Kingcool

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 02:32 PM

I know thats an RK knight and i know how it works but the new formula isn`t very easy to understand...and how should you combine arrow shower with IB?
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#39 GuardianTK

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 03:36 PM

I know thats an RK knight and i know how it works but the new formula isn`t very easy to understand...and how should you combine arrow shower with IB?

It's normally a Bowling Bash with Ignition Break combo. I don't know where you got this arrow shower with IB combo from. The new formula only shows what kind of damage you do depending on how far the monsters are away from you.
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#40 asayuu

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 04:28 PM

It's normally a Bowling Bash with Ignition Break combo. I don't know where you got this arrow shower with IB combo from. The new formula only shows what kind of damage you do depending on how far the monsters are away from you.


Yes, that's why [My opinion, don't go bashing, people D:] I think Ignition Break unreliable.

The damages on the irowiki's table for Ignition break shows:

1200%-1000%-600%

1200% is on the 3x3 area around the player, aka monsters in melee range [one cell distance from the "center" of the explosion]
1000% is on the 5x5 area around the player [two cells distance from the "center" of the explosion]
600% is on the 7x7 area around the player, [three cells distance from the "center" of the explosion]

The wiki is not updated though. I think IB is 1500 on center now, not sure...

Also dear, you got confused with the skill sets I think. Arrow Shower and Ignition Break seems to not be a real good combo set [Even Shower being "faster" than Bowling, it deals WAY less damage]. Arrow Storm can also be used in those sets, with either Bowling or Shower, while the aftercast delay passes [7 seconds are deadly if you ask me].

And for the other post. Yes you read me right. Soloing one or other map is okay, but wanting to solo the whole game, and complaining you can't solo certain places not supposed to solo, or kill MVPs solo is too much in my opinion [which does not count here].

You stressed me as anyone who says "firetrap is the only skill chaser can use to level" will stress me. Not that I wanted to be stressed, just the argument is stupid because they can have a lot of other skill options, but you don't want to see because you are "stuck" in that option. Take it easy, and go on. If you prefer going solo, you are already limited, because the devs don't want you soloing. This is not my word.

If you check the list of nerfed skills, 80% of them were the main leveling skills of certain builds. Rainstorm, Dragon Breath, Reflect Damage, Fire Trap, and the list grows and grows. Chaser was not the only class hindered by the balance patch. I am as pissed as you, because I play a class unable to level after balance. And really unable, not like chaser "oh I can get an skill for another class, reset part of my build and try it again."

Edited by asayuu, 21 December 2011 - 04:29 PM.

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#41 Razgriz

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 10:46 PM

Leveling wise, it just became impossible, ASS builds are narrowed to level with Duple light and MS for some decent damage, but other than that, i dont see a good way to level decently, also SR nerf made things worse and the 2x Sp cost is just senseless, they punished this class so much with the balance patch.
Now saying that this class is useless in woe is totally wrong, SC didnt lose their main skills.

Shadow form hardly got a nerf, why? Because its a skill to be used at key moments, Ruwach and Sight hardly take you out of it, why? Because you have to be near the range of sight or ruwach to dispell shadow form, so if you move out of the range, you will remain in shadow form, people still dont use keen noise, phantom menace or even body paint to get out of it, so the skill hardly got any nerf.

Manhole was a fair nerf, you could just keep someone for ages inside of it, and its still a good skill to have.

Bloody Lust is a golden skill, the 3 min cooldown makes it a bit balanced, and it helps you to disable people in a good area, this can be used to destroy cast lines if used correctly, im glad they made it like this.

And deadly infection, well, it was a bit too overpowered pre-patch, you could infect everybody using mass skills like Misty, JF and others, you could poison an entire guild, so it makes sense they toned it down a bit, its still usefull, flying kick still works with it, its pretty good to pester people.

So basically, they made the class unable to solo level and a bit useless in party play sadly :/ mostly because the nerfs on leveling skills from other classes plus the 2x Sp cost.

Imo they should allow 3rd class reproduced skills to be autocasted with ASS with the cost of 1/4 of the damage so people wont complain about it being OP, or even improve Triple shot, its hardly good from what i've seen, at least it should have an AOE so it can be usefull to kill mobs.

Anyway just my opinion on this, also sorry for the broken english -_-
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#42 GuardianTK

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 01:02 PM

No, you described the leveling problem pretty well, Razgriz.
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#43 WateryGrave

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 01:35 AM

If chasers got a 50% Dmg increase with all skills copied through Reproduce in its current state it would give chasers a good balance High Cost but High Reward. I dont see the problem with this because as far as i know any skill that can be copied is pretty weak in comparison to any other skill that cannot be copied and for good reason. But a increase in % for reproduce would benefit all chasers and not make them overly powered in any situation
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#44 asayuu

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 06:16 AM

If chasers got a 50% Dmg increase with all skills copied through Reproduce in its current state it would give chasers a good balance High Cost but High Reward. I dont see the problem with this because as far as i know any skill that can be copied is pretty weak in comparison to any other skill that cannot be copied and for good reason. But a increase in % for reproduce would benefit all chasers and not make them overly powered in any situation


No, this is not fair. But neither the doubled SP cost is.

One thing I would support is a boost on the SP pools of Chaser, if reproduce keeps acting this way.

But come on. A skill costing 240 sp should deal GOOD damage, isn't it? So why the heck [not only] reproduced rainstorm is SO WEAK?

If the skill was dealing proper damage, I don't think someone would be complaining about the SP cost. Running out of SP is "normal".

Rainstorm should not be nerfed in my opinion, because the skill was already balanced for the SP cost. Fire Trap was the broken skill who made leveling for chasers so damn easy, to the point the nerfs "should" be made. But of course, I don't know if they KNOW how to balance their game. Fire Trap dealt too damn fast DPS. Now it is just "omg a i-deal-the-same-damage-as-ctrl-clicking forced fire element hit" if you are not a ranger.

They created highly broken skills pre-balance and killed them post-balance. Lowering power was necessary, but... really. Should it be that much? [Example] 6k to 4k nerfs would be enough for this. Not 6k to... 600. [Not talking about a specific skill here, just in general]
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#45 Hrishi

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 12:28 PM

So much wrong info in this thread, mostly from Kingcool. Fire trap nerf was definitely needed, I could solo every single MvP except for top tier (think randgris and ifrit) and ghost MvPs with fire trap. And all I needed for this was a rideword hat and a malicious weapon. How is that balanced at all? Not to mention it cost next to zero supplies too, usually a nyd garb and a rideword hat would proc and keep my SP bar filled, and the malicious weapon kept my HP bar filled.

Yes, it sucks that this mode of leveling/mvping got nerfed, but I'd like to think of this as a way to expand beyond just thinking chaser = fire trap. There are a variety of options available, and although I do agree nothing will be remotely as godly as fire trap was, there are definitely ways. Arrow storm being buffed is something to look at. Bowling bash+Ignition break seemed to work well too. You could even try using the new ancient dagger and go spell caster. I'm not saying these are tried and tested methods, but they are definitely worth trying.

That being said, the 2x SP cost is a bit harsh and it would have been nicer if that was more like +25% or something like that. Triangle shot could even be improved, so we don't need to depend on reproduced spells to level and could actually use our own skills for leveling.

Edited by Hrishi, 23 December 2011 - 12:29 PM.

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#46 GuardianTK

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 12:43 PM

So much wrong info in this thread, mostly from Kingcool. Fire trap nerf was definitely needed, I could solo every single MvP except for top tier (think randgris and ifrit) and ghost MvPs with fire trap. And all I needed for this was a rideword hat and a malicious weapon. How is that balanced at all? Not to mention it cost next to zero supplies too, usually a nyd garb and a rideword hat would proc and keep my SP bar filled, and the malicious weapon kept my HP bar filled.

Yes, it sucks that this mode of leveling/mvping got nerfed, but I'd like to think of this as a way to expand beyond just thinking chaser = fire trap. There are a variety of options available, and although I do agree nothing will be remotely as godly as fire trap was, there are definitely ways. Arrow storm being buffed is something to look at. Bowling bash+Ignition break seemed to work well too. You could even try using the new ancient dagger and go spell caster. I'm not saying these are tried and tested methods, but they are definitely worth trying.

That being said, the 2x SP cost is a bit harsh and it would have been nicer if that was more like +25% or something like that. Triangle shot could even be improved, so we don't need to depend on reproduced spells to level and could actually use our own skills for leveling.

The Ancient Dagger sucks balls. It has a chance to inflict Curse on yourself whenever you attack. It has about(?) 20 more Matk than an Elemental Sword and isn't even slotted. So no, there is absolutely no new equipment available in post 14.1 at this time that aids any builds Shadow Chasers can muster for leveling purposes.
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