167 replies to this topic

[Inubashiri]

Then they should have made it clear from the start, and actually informed people that would be the case and not kept the information regarding the iRO customizations hidden from the community. Not doing so was pretty shoddy business practice. They would do better using my 'forgot' excuse, as they would come off looking a little better that way.

Believe me when I say it, I completely agree. They need to be completely clear with their intentions. I think what happens most of the time is really there isn't time to make a long winded post like Heim does sometimes or to answer every little question people ask. I know we try to bridge that gap and make up for it but its really no substitute. We really need a better system than the forums for some of this stuff.

[shurareki]

Believe me when I say it, I completely agree. They need to be completely clear with their intentions. I think what happens most of the time is really there isn't time to make a long winded post like Heim does sometimes or to answer every little question people ask. I know we try to bridge that gap and make up for it but its really no substitute. We really need a better system than the forums for some of this stuff.

couldn't a system message go out in game saying please check the site/fourms for any changes that may take place? i know some people dont check the fourms all the time and for that matter even the site. but if it was broadcast-ed i think they may go "UHHH maybe i should check this out?" like a guild message system that comes up when you first log in. and only for the day before and of the changes.

.... this is kinda sounding familiar didn't they used to do this way back. i could of sworn that when i played way way back there was some sort of system message that went out saying the patches would be listed on the site/fourms.

[Inubashiri]

couldn't a system message go out in game saying please check the site/fourms for any changes that may take place? i know some people dont check the fourms all the time and for that matter even the site. but if it was broadcast-ed i think they may go "UHHH maybe i should check this out?" like a guild message system that comes up when you first log in. and only for the day before and of the changes.

.... this is kinda sounding familiar didn't they used to do this way back. i could of sworn that when i played way way back there was some sort of system message that went out saying the patches would be listed on the site/fourms.

I think that was the idea with the patch notice/facebook/iro twitter/heim's twitter, really there is only so many ways you can try to keep people informed, at some point people have to make an effort both on the customer side and the company side as well.

[shurareki]

I think that was the idea with the patch notice/facebook/iro twitter/heim's twitter, really there is only so many ways you can try to keep people informed, at some point people have to make an effort both on the customer side and the company side as well.

thing is no one really reads the patch notice in the patcher (most just wait for the start button to turn.)or on the forums i didnt even know they had a twitter i dont use it wouldn't it make more sense to uh inform the players of the game in the game they are playing instead of hoping that they will happen across a twitter or facebook?

and it does take an effort on the customer side as well there isnt really any excuse for people not to read the patcher. i just think it would be more effective to have a notice ingame.

[Inubashiri]

thing is no one really reads the patch notice in the patcher (most just wait for the start button to turn.)or on the forums i didnt even know they had a twitter i dont use it wouldn't it make more sense to uh inform the players of the game in the game they are playing instead of hoping that they will happen across a twitter or facebook?

and it does take an effort on the customer side as well there isnt really any excuse for people not to read the patcher. i just think it would be more effective to have a notice ingame.

Well whatever they do, ultimately people will still be out of the loop. Take the balance patch for instance, all the information that was posted and compiled for us, yet people still were taken by surprise with it. I noticed more users on here who'd either registered in the past few weeks or who haven't posted in months or even a year come on and harp about it after the fact it was put on the main servers.

[shurareki]

Well whatever they do, ultimately people will still be out of the loop. Take the balance patch for instance, all the information that was posted and compiled for us, yet people still were taken by surprise with it. I noticed more users on here who'd either registered in the past few weeks or who haven't posted in months or even a year come on and harp about it after the fact it was put on the main servers.

lol yeah that was actually quite funny to be honest. im not saying they have to do that just a suggestion if they wanted to inform the greater amount of people. that way they cover it and can be like well ya know we did say IN THE GAME you are complaining to me about to check the forums/site. but you are right

[sv003]

Whos saying sura wasn't nerfed? Go MvP with your sura and see how nerfed it is.

[TheUraharaShop]

Whos saying sura wasn't nerfed? Go MvP with your sura and see how nerfed it is.

So you can't GFist... but doesn't that class have other skills though...? Funny.

[IronPlushy]

So you can't GFist... but doesn't that class have other skills though...? Funny.

You're wrong, Suras only have one skill, that's why they're so hard to level

This isn't the Sura QQ thread, it's down further

[WateryGrave]

I dont feel iRO will ever reach its potential on this game under kro, reason being is that it seems every thing has to go to kro first to be decided i mean seriously isnt there a way to just cut them out of the picture all together. Then our community could make suggestions because as of right now alot of times my friends say things that could seriously help the game or just ideas in general but they feel its pointless to suggest anything because " if i suggest that it'll take 2years for kro to make a decision then another 3 for them to even think about putting it in iro"

[IronFist]

not anytime soon
you guys underestimate this game and with this balance patch things are only getting better
Welcome back everyone

[TheUraharaShop]

You're wrong, Suras only have one skill, that's why they're so hard to level

Its so sarcastic... it must be true... is it...?

Honestly, there needs to be a legitimate over haul of the game for iRO to make it balanced not by the damage and cool down times but looking deeper in to the way a class is built, and then constructing a system of strengths and weaknesses vs other classes. Just as in your signature how Sherder has the advantage over Typhosion based on the fact it can use Water Based attacks, how ever for Typhosion to have the advantage over Blessy, it has to use Fighting Element based attacks; now its about the strategy and less about one "shoting" and noob calling.

Classes and their builds should be able to gain advantages over other classes based on their skills and stats and then be at a disadvantaged towards others.

[IronPlushy]

Its so sarcastic... it must be true... is it...?

Honestly, there needs to be a legitimate over haul of the game for iRO to make it balanced not by the damage and cool down times but looking deeper in to the way a class is built, and then constructing a system of strengths and weaknesses vs other classes. Just as in your signature how Sherder has the advantage over Typhosion based on the fact it can use Water Based attacks, how ever for Typhosion to have the advantage over Blessy, it has to use Fighting Element based attacks; now its about the strategy and less about one "shoting" and noob calling.

Classes and their builds should be able to gain advantages over other classes based on their skills and stats and then be at a disadvantaged towards others.

Actually my sig is my three favorite poke-personas by the artist hitec, and the gyardos one is obviously based off me. But I agree that it seems like kRO doesn't understand class roles and balances, probably because they were around before it was really understood, like if i balanced the game itd be like this
RK: all around slugger, deals good damage, can survive attacks

RG: is the tank, high hp, high def, deals damage, but not like RK

Ranger: USES A BOW, and traps, much more strategy in defeating and surviving other classes, versatile yet fragile

Wanderer: buffs buffs buffs, we like buffs in cars...ANYWAY they can deal damage with a bow, but their buffs is where its at, best buffs, most fragile class

AB:durrr, heals protects and cures, can do holy damage in PVM, obviously not a damage dealer in PvP/WoE but essential to it

Sura:can deal a lot of damage, like a fragile RK, damage is based on spirit sphere and combos, more offensive than an RK, but needs setup and a little SP

Sorceror: buffs AND damage, can't buff as well as wanderer, can't damage like a warlock, but is versatile and vital to PvP/WoE

Warlock:has powerful AoE AND long range single target spell, fragile, but deals insane damage, heavily reliant on sp

SC: the saboteur, not great at PVM, but leveling pays off as a problem for anyone in WoE, disables, causes chaos

GX: deals heavy damage, but has to rely on deception to deal it's damage, similar to a Sura, but with limited range and more stealth

Mech: damage dealing buff bestower, not as strong as an RK, buffs are not as good as sorceror, but versatile, and somewhat durable

Gen:debuffer, relies on it's homunculus and any weapons it made before battle, not an sp queen, not as disruptive as SC

this, I feel, is the paradigm RO should follow, everyone has their role, there is balance and OBVIOUS differences between classes

Edited by IronPlushy, 19 December 2011 - 10:24 AM.

[TheUraharaShop]

Well in all, there has to be basic categories for character builds to fall into.

Such as:

Melee
Skilled Melee
Ranged
Support - Damage Increase and Damage Reduction
Support - Healing and Recovery
and a few more...

[IronPlushy]

Well in all, there has to be basic categories for character builds to fall into.

Such as:

Melee
Skilled Melee
Ranged
Support - Damage Increase and Damage Reduction
Support - Healing and Recovery
and a few more...

these can be put into the basic categories, but their diversity in skills while remaining true to a paradigm is key to balanced yet diverse gameplay

RK: MELEE+tank
RG: TANK+melee
Sura&GX: skilled MELEE
Ranger: Queen of RANGED
Wanderer: SUPPORT+ranged
AB: SUPPORT RECOVERY
Sorc: SUPPORT+ranged
Warlock:king of RANGED
SC: DEBUFFER
Mech:support+melee
Gen: debuffer+buffer

Full caps means top tier in that category, lower case is like a secondary skill the weaknesses would be as followed. If it only has one paradigm, it is the best at that paradigm

RK: good at everything, not great at anything
RG: not a threat like true MELEE's
Sura: light defenses, relies on timing for max damage
GX: light defenses, relies on stealth to stay alive
Ranger: light defenses, fails at melee
Wanderer: most fragile
AB:not equipped for battle, must remain outside of combat
Sorc:susceptible to any damage, must kill first
Warlock: does not have RANGE, like Sorc cannot take a hit
SC: not a MELEE, stronger than Sura, but is not a RK
Mech: similar to RK, good at buff and melee, would lose to 1 v. 1 against strongest melee
Gen: relies on pet for safety, not fit for direct combat

This is just how I would balance things, I know this isn't how RO really works, I have more balances in mind if you'd like me to go further.

Edited by IronPlushy, 19 December 2011 - 11:08 AM.

[Kagrra]

RK: good at everything, not great at anything
RG: not a threat like true MELEE's
Sura: light defenses, relies on timing for max damage
GX: light defenses, relies on stealth to stay alive
Ranger: light defenses, fails at melee
Wanderer: most fragile
AB:not equipped for battle, must remain outside of combat
Sorc:susceptible to any damage, must kill first
Warlock: does not have RANGE, like Sorc cannot take a hit
SC: not a MELEE, stronger than Sura, but is not a RK
Mech: similar to RK, good at buff and melee, would lose to 1 v. 1 against strongest melee
Gen: relies on pet for safety, not fit for direct combat

This is just how I would balance things, I know this isn't how RO really works, I have more balances in mind if you'd like me to go further.

There's one thing I'd like to add to Genetics, since you only seem to be thinking of the homunculus, which I only see used for AFK leveling, but I agree with you for the most part.
Genetics are potion-based healers also, since they have aid potion and aid condensed potion; pre-renewal, I'd often see a Biochemist use these during WoE in my guild and it helped a lot for the main healers. They also have some damaging skills, but they're very costly, and are based off of potions. And they can summon plants and marine spheres. I always thought they were a decently powerful class, like on the same level as a Sorc, only costly. So, maybe you could change Genetic to something more like...

Gen: relies on pet for safety, but can deal a punch from behind and help heal and debuff.

So they're kind of like a squishy jack-of-all-trades with potions; I really like their Alchemist / Biochemist skills the best, and I think they did a decent job with most of them until renewal hit. So, I just wanted to add that in.

[Akin]

Working in the game industry myself, I'm sure one thing that's probably hard on a 10 year game like RO is turn-over. Most people don't even stay in the same job for more than 5 years, let alone a decade. I'm sure the people who designed the original classes were probably not even there when Trans were created, let alone Renewal. And different designers come in with different ideas on how the game should move forward, which makes it hard to stick to archetypes like those you've mentioned for classes if it wasn't spelled out from the beginning how a class is supposed to be constructed or advance through job changes. I'm sure if I was hired as a designer at kRO the game would go in quite a different direction than if any of you were hired, and we basically seem to want the same things.

Our desire to improve the game hinges 100% on how receptive they are to feedback. From an outside observer, it appears that they are not, but since no one is interested in RO2, they have no choice but to keep updating RO to maintain their income.

[TheUraharaShop]

@ IronPlushyLess about the class and "popular skills" and more of all the skills as a whole.

Most classes are bound by the notion that stat's dictate the skills the player gets and skills dictate the stats a player gets: they're both bound together. In all most players forget that classes have multiple differnt versions that can be constructed, how ever because everything is DPS based and not about the strategy. Remove DPS from the notion of WoE and MVPing and everything then requires players to plan out a course of attack rather then the whole:


Zen ->Fury ->Zen ->Fist ->Pot ->Zen ->Fury ->Zen ->Fist and so on. It requires players to think though their choices knowing that can gain the advantage over others not by the pay to win or who has the most broken list of god items; its based on who can be quick in terms of game theory: a multi-step thinker.

And to Akin,

You may have forgotten the whole "It's alright if Gravity pushes out updates that continues to give me a clear unfair advantage over players due to my abuse of bugs or loopholes in the DPS, Skill, EXP or Item system. BUT if their update restricts that, then it's a bad update". Remember Green Ale? Yeah... that created some of the worst arguments to keep-anything- in iRO ever. Every argument wasn't trying to help maintain the integrity of the game, but to continue blatant abuse and botting of those items that everyone wanted to deny but knew was true.