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#51 Helios0

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:07 AM

assuming the Mimic NPC doesnt Vanish Thursday at 10am PST.................
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#52 Helios0

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:18 AM

great now the bots are starting to figure this out..


Royal guard bot insta teleporting anytime i get near

sigh..
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#53 Tofu

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:22 AM

Safe certs are bottable now, rather than being MVP exclusive :/
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#54 Hrothmund

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:28 AM

Safe certs are bottable now, rather than being MVP exclusive :/


This will be a problem on valk/ygg much like the anolian skins for EXP turn-ins. Its a shame because its a really awesome idea.
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#55 kiwiii

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:32 AM

q____________________q

Silly mimic doesn't think my +9 Main gauges are tastey enough.
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#56 Tofu

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:33 AM

Fix one problem, create another. Now NO gear will ever break. Ever.

I think the intent of this was to turn in OLD +6 and higher gear for certs, not create an infinite supply of easy certs.

Either that, or encourage upgrading previously "worthless" mvp drops for certs, maybe. I was gonna do this originally with all those sacred missions I have cluttering all 5 of my storages, til I realized it doesn't matter what is +7.
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#57 aquaria

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:35 AM

q____________________q

Silly mimic doesn't think my +9 Main gauges are tastey enough.


Level 3 and 4 weapon only.
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#58 Luckywhiterabbit

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:37 AM

We just have to accept that the new way of doing things is NOT breaking gear anymore. There will always be new players who need new gear.

That is, if this event is permanent, yeah. I really hope it is, because I like being able to farm for my safe upgrades. I do kind of agree that it should be limited to only monster drop items, not items that can be bought from an NPC.
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#59 aquaria

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:54 AM

CottonShirts? Sandals are where its at made like 1.1b last night.


Why Sandals? Cotton shirt cost 7z. Unless sandals have a higher chance to not fail.

Edited by aquaria, 01 March 2012 - 12:54 AM.

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#60 Helios0

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 01:04 AM

may have to start bb'ing the cave to protect it..
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#61 Luckywhiterabbit

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 01:13 AM

I still find it hard to believe that people have the "BOTS? OMG, DROP A BB!" mentality. BBing doesn't stop bots. All it does is make things difficult for real players. Bots have nothing to lose from dying to a BB. They just respawn, follow their path back, and keep that up until the BB either goes away or dies. Players lose actual time and experience every time some dork leaves a BB where no boss monster should rightfully belong. It's even more disruptive than bots.
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#62 Hrothmund

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 01:29 AM

This could just be a test run to see how its used/abused. I think it would be a good idea to limit it to (all) mvp gear to limit bots though, I mean theres tons of worthless mvp armor/weapons that could be canabalised for this.

If it actually gets people out *gasp* hunting items from regular monsters, its worth the negative impact bots might have.
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#63 Helios0

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 02:06 AM

when you have MVP gear as the only means of getting certs you have ppl with a monopoly they uber camp stuff like satan morroc and then 1 person gets mega uber ultra rich while everyone else is screwed


at least this way certs arent close to 20mil

Edited by Helios0, 01 March 2012 - 02:07 AM.

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#64 shado

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 02:18 AM

I hope this thing isn't permanent.. I mean, it's nice to abuse for a bit, but not if it takes all incentive out of the MvP'd certs.. Was actually able to make cash from MvPing from a while there. I guess it makes sense in GM logic to nerf the :D out of that.
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#65 Luckywhiterabbit

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 02:30 AM

Not everyone/class can hunt MVPs, especially not the MVP's that drop diab gear and valkyrie loots. This method is better. And no, it's not easy to make a +7 gear using just regular elu. I just blew through 70elu and only managed to get 1 +7 cotton shirt.
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#66 AnnoDomini

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 02:57 AM

Eat Gear NPC is my hero(ine). I cannot remember a mimic ever giving me as much joy as this one.

With 92 elunium from storage I took 6 out of 16 NPC gears to +6, of which 4 gave me a cert. Traded my +8 ragamuffin (lol) for 3 more certs. After all that upgrading I had 300k z left (true story).

Sold 3 certs for 15m before people realized what was going on, bought another 5 more certs for 9m, sold the whole lot for 13m each. Within 10 hours I was 117m z in the green. Selling the elunium prior to this event would have netted me a ridiculous 3.7m only, and the +8 rag's been sitting in storage for 5 years?

A dirt-poor player like myself benefited immensely and I'm sure others did too. Thanks GMs ^_^

Ymir won't have many problems since the bot count is low, but good luck managing it on Ygg and Valk. If the problem gets bad, maybe you could leave the NPC around for a week more till semi-active players get a chance to dispose of their ancient gear, then take him out?
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#67 asayuu

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 03:21 AM

Fix one problem, create another. Now NO gear will ever break. Ever.

I think the intent of this was to turn in OLD +6 and higher gear for certs, not create an infinite supply of easy certs.

Either that, or encourage upgrading previously "worthless" mvp drops for certs, maybe. I was gonna do this originally with all those sacred missions I have cluttering all 5 of my storages, til I realized it doesn't matter what is +7.


It's better this way. It would be better though if the equipment had to be carded too. In case of armors, the armor would NEED to be a monster drop to work. And then, it would be a oldgear + oldcard sink.

In all cases, to make a zeny sink with this, the staff would need to raise the price for each upgrade done during this "event". 20k per armor upgrade + the ultra overpriced eluniums.

And for the bot problem, simple. Make entrance to Dewata / Cave use a NPC with a input number instead of letting people enter straightly. A input number with 8 digits, or something alike. Bots would still enter, but less.
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#68 shado

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 03:30 AM

Not everyone/class can hunt MVPs, especially not the MVP's that drop diab gear and valkyrie loots. This method is better. And no, it's not easy to make a +7 gear using just regular elu. I just blew through 70elu and only managed to get 1 +7 cotton shirt.

That's the point genius. The certs for MvP gear was awesome because it was the only way to get more certs, therefor adding value to the mvp loot instead of letting it just collect dust waiting for someone to buy it. Now there is even less demand for the gear itself, since everyone will have all of their gear at +7 or higher.
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#69 Luckywhiterabbit

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 03:43 AM

That's the point genius. The certs for MvP gear was awesome because it was the only way to get more certs, therefor adding value to the mvp loot instead of letting it just collect dust waiting for someone to buy it. Now there is even less demand for the gear itself, since everyone will have all of their gear at +7 or higher.


As opposed to Ori/Elu being brought up in value, a much more important and common drop that should rightfully help poorer and newer players get stronger instead of only those who are already strong enough to hunt MVP's?

Your MVP gears still have value. They guarantee certs without any need for upgrading. Either way you still get a cert(s) from turning them in, and you can sell those for a profit, and the MVP gear in question still disappears and refrains from collecting dust.

Let's also not forget that MVPs pretty much always drop elu/ori, lol.

Edited by Luckywhiterabbit, 01 March 2012 - 03:48 AM.

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#70 Hrothmund

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 04:00 AM

Not everyone/class can hunt MVPs, especially not the MVP's that drop diab gear and valkyrie loots. This method is better. And no, it's not easy to make a +7 gear using just regular elu. I just blew through 70elu and only managed to get 1 +7 cotton shirt.


yup, and seems the odds of "winning" are about 10-20% ( i gave it 7 gears and lost on all). It takes something like 100 regular items and about 600-700 elu to make one +9 gear, the MVP trader has definitely NOT lost its appeal :D
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#71 shado

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 04:02 AM

As opposed to Ori/Elu being brought up in value, a much more important and common drop that should rightfully help poorer and newer players get stronger instead of only those who are already strong enough to hunt MVP's?

Your MVP gears still have value. They guarantee certs without any need for upgrading. Either way you still get a cert(s) from turning them in, and you can sell those for a profit, and the MVP gear in question still disappears and refrains from collecting dust.

Let's also not forget that MVPs pretty much always drop elu/ori, lol.


You must not be very intelligent, or just really bad at this game..

Trading in MVP loot for certs would be absolutely stupid currently, as you can just buy botted elu/ori and/or go kill in dewata for free certs. This means people will not buy them at their current or even half of their current price.

Meaning you get even more high end gear stocking up, and nobody with the zeny/need for it.

I'm hoping you are new, as opposed to being stupid enough to actually think this benefits the game because you get to abuse it.
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#72 Luckywhiterabbit

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 04:10 AM

You must not be very intelligent, or just really bad at this game..

Trading in MVP loot for certs would be absolutely stupid currently, as you can just buy botted elu/ori and/or go kill in dewata for free certs. This means people will not buy them at their current or even half of their current price.

Meaning you get even more high end gear stocking up, and nobody with the zeny/need for it.

I'm hoping you are new, as opposed to being stupid enough to actually think this benefits the game because you get to abuse it.


I started playing just a month or two before renewal hit, so yeah, I am what you might consider 'new', and I have no attatchment to your 'old and superior' Ragnarok. I'm looking at things from a Renewal perspective.

If you have MVP loots that, according to you, nobody in their right mind would want to buy (it has no value), but are given the option of exchanging it into a rather useful item that lots of people would want to buy, then why are you even holding onto them in the first place? Personal attacks aside (a very poor way to make yourself seem intelligent, but fitting, since your previous row with the mini-valks did nothing but pin you as a pseudointellectual trying way too hard show off) I don't see the point in insisting that players buy your MVP gear instead of the certs you can generate for it.

Every time Gravity brings out some new kawaii headgear or garment with a super OP upgraded effect, people are going to want those certs. You're going to be selling them, whether through the proper vending or through buy stores for a quicker buck and less competition. You really aren't achieving anything by holding onto your accumulated MVP loot and crying about it.

Ignoring the fact that there's always going to be some poor noob out there who does want a valk shield for the elemental resistance, if even just temporarily.

As it stands there's actually not many good ways outside of the kafra shop for players to gain the money they need to buy key gears at lower levels, because everyone levels so fast that they often hit lv 100 and then suddenly need a Hurricane Fury or a Nid Garb, or a neuralliser because they screwed up their build etc. Unless you get a bunch of valuable cards early on, the average player doesn't get nearly that much zeny by the time they reach 3rd class. Farming for strawberries and blue herbs is mere pocket change that's probably going to buy you a few rounds of white potions. Re-introducing value to elu/ori does give lower level players who cannot MVP a very legit source of income outside of the Kafra Shop and that's important.

Yes, I don't think anyone is disagreeing that MVP loots are undervalued at the moment, but you know, if you can't sell those, then you can turn them in for certs.

Or did you perhaps misread my post? When I said "you can sell those for a profit" I was referring to the certs you get when turning in a piece of MVP loot, because according to you, those loots are not worth much. Certs, on the other hand, are. Once again, why are you even holding on to those mvp loots in the first place?

Edited by Luckywhiterabbit, 01 March 2012 - 04:25 AM.

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#73 shado

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 04:35 AM

You're the one that misread, or just plain can't understand. Maybe you need it spelled out for you.

On ygg, valk shields sell for 20-30m, and they don't get bought very quickly.
Last week, I sold about a billion zeny worth of certs traded in from valk shields, at 13 for body and 6-7.5 for weapon and head. Meaning I could sell the valk shields quickly for a price of 24m lowest to 52m highest. Not only is this more on average per item, but they sold extremely quickly, making high end mvping quite worthwhile.

Now, This week, they add in an npc to get certs for free from elu and ori. There are now noobs like you selling weapon certs for 2m each, and the other certs are likely to follow. In case you can't do math, this brings the lowest value I could get per shield to 8m. That's definitely not worth exchanging,

Also, since you can't seem to understand, this means I'm stuck selling the gear itself, instead of being able to turn it into something useful that everyone needs. Players that don't suck, unlike you, can get their own or likely already have every piece of gear from MVP's they need, minus cards. This took the great addition of the cert npc and devalued the :D out of it, making it no longer worthwhile and putting the stockpiling gear problem back to square one.


Maybe try learning how the ingame economy works before talking like you know something?

Edited by shado, 01 March 2012 - 04:42 AM.

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#74 Luckywhiterabbit

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 04:51 AM

You're the one that misread, or just plain can't understand. Maybe you need it spelled out for you.

On ygg, valk shields sell for 20-30m, and they don't get bought very quickly.
Last week, I sold about a billion zeny worth of certs traded in from valk shields, at 13 for body and 6-7.5 for weapon and head. Meaning I could sell the valk shields quickly for a price of 24m lowest to 49m highest. Not only is this more on average per item, but they sold extremely quickly, making high end mvping quite worthwhile.

Now, This week, they add in an npc to get certs for free from elu and ori. There are now noobs like you selling weapon certs for 2m each, and the other certs are likely to follow. In case you can't do math, this brings the lowest value I could get per shield to 8m. That's definitely not worth exchanging,

Also, since you can't seem to understand, this means I'm stuck selling the gear itself, instead of being able to turn it into something useful that everyone needs. Players that don't suck, unlike you, can get their own or likely already have every piece of gear from MVP's they need, minus cards. This took the great addition of the cert npc and devalued the :D out of it, making it no longer worthwhile and putting the stockpiling gear problem back to square one.


Maybe try learning how the ingame economy works before talking like you know something?


Alright, I get what you're saying about the loots and certs being devalued, but this change definately does directly help low level players who actually need the zeny more than those of us who can MVP. Bots are another problem, but bots have always been always and always will be a problem.

I am one of those players who has basically everything I need at this point in time, save for extra kitsch I want for certain experimental builds. I still have plenty of need for certs though, and so does just about everyone else. You also seem to be forgetting that most players "suck", because last time I checked, not every single person on the server had high-end gears, and some of them were even looking for high end gears! Most of the people buying certificates are noobs who still have to get their gear to the obligitory Renewal +9.

Today I met a new player in Ice Dungeon who was struggling for eden gears and somewhat overwhelmed by the kind of damage my ranger was doing. I walked her through the quest and helped keep her safe from gazetti. I recalled that I had a certain +8 hurricane double critical jur my sin had been using since pre-renewal that I don't think I'd ever be able to sell. I could have traded that in for a few weapon certs, but instead I chose to give it to her, and she was very pleased with it. (And no, I did not tell her I was a ninja.)

Ignoring the fact that she'll be upgrading to a durga or whatever it is sins are using now once she hits GX , it does go to show that new players need to get themselves geared eventually and for that they are going to have to buy some of your crap, whether they're bad players or not. You can whine about the economy all day, but I remember how frustrating it was to have to build up zeny for proper gear early on when I didn't have a lv 130+ character who could farm everything all day.

Edited by Luckywhiterabbit, 01 March 2012 - 04:57 AM.

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#75 shado

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 04:55 AM

I am one of those players who has basically everything I need at this point in time, save for extra kitsch I want for certain experimental builds. I still have plenty of need for certs though, and so does just about everyone else. You also seem to be forgetting that most players "suck", because last time I checked, not every single person on the server had high-end gears, and some of them were even looking for high end gears! Most of the people buying certificates are noobs who still have to get their gear to the obligitory Renewal +9.

Today I met a new player in Ice Dungeon who was struggling for eden gears and somewhat overwhelmed by the kind of damage my ranger was doing. I walked her through the quest and helped keep her safe from gazetti. I recalled that I had a certain +8 hurricane double critical jur my sin had been using since pre-renewal that I don't think I'd ever be able to sell. I could have traded that in for a few weapon certs, but instead I chose to give it to her, and she was very pleased with it. (And no, I did not tell her I was a ninja.)

Ignoring the fact that she'll be upgrading to a durga or whatever it is sins are using now once she hits GX , it does go to show that new players need to get themselves geared eventually and for that they are going to have to buy some of your crap, whether they're bad players or not. You can whine about the economy all day, but I remember how frustrating it was to have to build up zeny for proper gear early on when I didn't have a lv 130+ character who could farm everything all day.


You act like you think I've never had a 1/1 novice with 0 zeny and and empty storage. There isn't a point in playing an MMO if there is nothing to work towards, especially gears and ingame currency. You're a new player, it's hard for you to make money. GOOD. That's the way it should be, not someone playing one day of Ragnarok and selling $10 for 50m zeny.
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